Required MV for 175 @ 1,000 yards?

[Douglas-001]

I've been sniffing around but haven't stumbled across any thread that mentions where you need to be with the SMK 175 for 1K. I managed to chrony 5 rds. a few weeks ago when a friend showed up at the club with his chrony. I was just working out with the new Phantom. They averaged about 2680 fps from the 700P with a 26" bbl. and the can. 43 grns. IMR 4895-CCI LRP-mag length. Very accurate load. I plan to shoot a 1K yd. match at Camp Perry on the 15th. Never shot at this distance, but I believe that the platform can do it. I have my own chrony and recently bought Litz's book which is a great read. Got his program installed on a laptop, and that's where I'm at members. Thank you for any advice. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug

700P
1/12
NF 20 MOA base
MK 4 6.5-20X50mm M1 mil dot

(I will load these to the rifling & no suppressors or muzzle brakes)

 

[Mr Smith]

Mine get there no problem at 2580 out of a 20" sps tactical.

 

[DamnYuppie]

You will have no issue getting to 1k with your current MV.

 

[BobinNC]

Sorry to be so obtuse, but if there is a question in your above paragraph, I think I missed it? However, I suspect what your searching for is this: JBM - Calculations - Trajectory (Simplified)

 

[Cproflow]

I don't see any concern. My 20" 5R runs at 2624, and that is more than enough

 

[varmint slayer]

I've been sniffing around but haven't stumbled across any thread that mentions where you need to be with the SMK 175 for 1K. I managed to chrony 5 rds. a few weeks ago when a friend showed up at the club with his chrony. I was just working out with the new Phantom. They averaged about 2680 fps from the 700P with a 26" bbl. and the can. 43 grns. IMR 4895-CCI LRP-mag length. Very accurate load. I plan to shoot a 1K yd. match at Camp Perry on the 15th. Never shot at this distance, but I believe that the platform can do it. I have my own chrony and recently bought Litz's book which is a great read. Got his program installed on a laptop, and that's where I'm at members. Thank you for any advice. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug

700P
1/12
NF 20 MOA base
MK 4 6.5-20X50mm M1 mil dot

(I will load these to the rifling & no suppressors or muzzle brakes)

You should be ok at 2650 and sea level. Even a little better at Camp Perry. It will be in the edge of going transonic but should be fine.

 

[You-Two]

Used some Federal GMM 175 loads in my FN SPR (24" with 1/12 twist) last winter at 1k that only gave me about 2560 fps. Worked fine at the Sac Valley range all the way out, but went subsonic at 900+ yards (DA at 0' and about 45 deg F, so more dense than standard conditions). Still shot fine! My research seemed to indicate a velocity of 2600+ would be sufficient with the 175s. Since then I have worked up a load with the 175/178s netting around 2680-2705 fps using IMR-4064 in the same rifle. No issues with that at just about any temp/DA combo.

Good luck at the match!

 

[Boogaloo]

You should be ok at 2650 and sea level. Even a little better at Camp Perry. It will be in the edge of going transonic but should be fine.

There is also a lot of debate on whether "going transonic" is actually much ado about nothing. Some pretty smart folks over at BenchrestCentral have debated this ad infinitum and determined that there is no mysterious wall of air resistance that (all) bullets pass through when they transition from supersonic to subsonic.

What I gathered from the discussion is that some bullets will become unstable at subsonic speeds without question (168 Matchking), but others, like the 178AMAX, 168AMAX and 178 BTHP from Hornady actually do very well at extended distances, even when going slower than the speed of sound. Some of the Berger VLD's do very well through the transition also from what I understand.

Now, keep in mind, this is just me regurgitating some things I read on the interwebs, but sans the high tech equipment, and ability to capture ultra high speed video of the bullets in question as they do transition, one really only has the experience(s) of others to draw conclusions from no?

I really started to research the dreaded "transition" when I wanted info on how far I can reasonably expect to push a .224 projectile from a .223 Remington Ackley Improved. Turns out, that someone with a lot more experience that me, has some pretty successful results with a standard .223 going out to a mile.

If you have the patience, this is a very good read: Shooting A 223 Rifle To A Mile Accurately

Directly relating to the OP's question, I am now hitting the 1000 yard steel at my range using 178 AMAX @ 2550, 178 BTHP (Hornady) @ 2550 and 155 Scenar @ 2870 FPS respectively from my 24" (10 twist) 308

 

[Douglas-001]

Thank you for the advice members. I know that many here consider 1k the short line........I got out yesteday and ran some loads thru the chrony. The 175's averaged 2674 fps. Extreme spread of 55. Avg Dev of 12. I also scored some 173's from a fellow shooter. I gues these bullets (new) are what they use in the M118(?) long range load. They actually weigh just over 173. Those numbers-avg of 2696. ES-39. Avg dev-9.6. The 175's grouped a little better, but I know I was getting movement on the gun later as I didn't want to plug the chrony. 44.0 grns. IMR 4895 and put them on the rifling. 210 match primers. No pressure signs. I don't know who makes that 173, but for the price I had to snag 'em! I plan to have fun at the match, and learn a few things. I 've waited a few years to finally get this platform together and run with the big dogs......I'm only 1 letter away.....as always, I welcome any input and advice. Good luck and good shooting!

Doug

 

[ksthomas]

Doug,

The 173s are actually the old bullets, used in the original M72 and M118 ammunition. They're nominally 172 grains, but can/will vary by as much as 3.0 grains, and are a conventional FMJBT design that were produced by Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. The new M118LR loading uses a 175 grain SMK, but essentially duplicates the older M118 load, in terms of ballistics. The 172 provided good long range ballistics, and would stay supersonic out of a service rifle to better than 1,000 yards, but they weren't as accurate as the SMK match bullets. The 175 was designed specifically to meet LC's requirements for a bullet that had the ranging characteristics of the M118 load, and the accuracy of the M852 Match ammunition. The 175 did both, and the combination became the M118LR still in service today.

 

[Heman]

Doug, I'll see you up at Bob Wright at Camp Perry. I'll be shooting sling though so I'll be on the other end. Orange/White Monard jacket, and my tube gun (.280 Rem) has Michigan Maize/Blue paint scheme. Anyways you should be fine. First year I shot High Power I went to Atterbury for a Palma match and my load of 175gr SMK and Sierra 175's with 44.5gr of Varget was key holling at 1k, sat them out in the sun the second day and they picked up enough velocity they shot fine. Added .5gr and it worked just fine. Velocity was 2620-2640fps but the issue was barrel was a 1:12. Guys shooting that velocity with a 1:10 don't have an issue. So since you are a 1:12 also you will want to be closer to 2700fps which it looks like you are at so you should be ok. I believe my load at 45gr was at 2720fps or there about. Have fun at Perry it is a very forgiving range to shoot on as the Mirage reads true and the targets are lit up nice and bright since your shooting north.

 

[pgk]

Hi Heman,

Your from Ohio and your tube gun is painted in Maize/ Blue colors, you must catch some slack with that color scheme Nice choice in color by the way LOL

Pete

and my tube gun (.280 Rem) has Michigan Maize/Blue paint scheme. QUOTE]

 

[Douglas-001]

Great info Kevin, thank you. Those pills are just over 174. They seem to shoot well enough for range use and suppressor activities and the price was right. Here's the lot(?) # stamped on all 5 boxes 1305-00-573 4714 Projectile Caliber 100ea. Greek to me....Yea Heman, I've been shooting service rifle with ORPA for about 7 or so years including this season. I'll sling up as well, may have to move the scope a little bit. I'll be wearing what you see in the photo to the left. The rifle shoots IMR 4895 real well so I may just give them a little more gas and stay with the 175's. I don't know how forgiving Camp Perry is, but you only get one shot, ha ha, then wait till next season. I'll be back to shooting over a post after this match. I'll keep my eyes open for you in those horrible colors, or hit me with a PM if you like. Thanks again members for the help!

Doug