Rittenhouse Trial

[The King]

Agreed. The prosecutor in this case did say that the three people Kyle shot that night were not shooting at him first, so that does imply that in his mind, you have to let them shoot you first, and if you live, then maybe you can shoot back.

Your honor, we would like to cross examine .... the prosecutor.

He doesn’t seem to have any knowledge of the law in our state whatsoever, or is a pathological liar. Both of which are relavent to our case....

 

[KZP]

after listening to the prosecutor, I hope the irony isn’t lost on the jury that the prosecutor seems to be suggesting that no one can know another’s intent even when someone says “fuck you” and “reached for a gun” when the person making this argument literally convicts people where an intent element is codified in the statute and the defendant does not admit to a criminal intent but it is inferred from the circumstances for there to be sufficient evidence to uphold the conviction

This has been the playbook for some time. Look at all the jihadis yelling Islamic war cries while beheading people in various first world countries, then the government says "We have no idea why they did this. Real mystery, maybe they were sleep walking. But one thing is for sure, this has nothing to do with Islam. We will never know what their true intent was".

 

[quietmike]

WTF!?

I don't know where you got the idea that one counterexample contradicts that something is extremely rare. I didn't say it was impossible, just extremely rare. I even told you I know of a case where it has happened. That doesn't contradict anything I said, and if you can't understand that what you brought here has nothing to do with what we're talking about and doesn't contradict what I said, it's you who can't recognize you're wrong, not me. And if you think I care about what you think about my opinions (which are based on actually doing, not being a bystander), you can join my ignore list with the other people who think gotcha points are more important than an adult discussion about difficult adult things.

 

[Capt Beach]

Moral of the story is operate like this guy, who is still free (unless he's a fed)

Ummm Hes a fed...pure and simple...with todays surveillance, street cams, cell tracking tech, the number of cell phones...the only plausible answer is...HES A FED...Agent Provocateur.

 

[Downzero]

Yes, it was fixed 1 or 2 years ago. Which pissed me off to no fucking end. We still don't have a codified set of conditions under which deadly force can be applied. It's all a hodgepodge of state supreme court decisions.

What's wrong with that? That's been the law for 1000 years. A statute is just words after all.

 

[KZP]

Ummm Hes a fed...pure and simple...with todays surveillance, street cams, cell tracking tech, the number of cell phones...the only plausible answer is...HES A FED...Agent Provocateur.

If they had aerial footage from Kenosha, they certainly have footage to track where this person came from and where they went.

 

[Jim Out]

Seriously? Lack of reading comprehension and/or trolling had previously accused "me" of not believing in self defense, therefore I am speaking about myself in the 1st person as the first sentence shows.

My parable for you is how are you your brother's keeper if you get yourself stupidly incarcerated? As in my brother was going to rob a liquor so since I'm his keeper I rode along to talk him out of it but couldn't and now I'm going to be sitting in prison with him.


As plainly as I can restate the same for those with no sense of humor, if you read about me using a firearm for self defense it won't be about me going to trial because so many things were "iffy" that the overlords from the state questioned my motives.

Not to start a dick measuring contest here, but when was the last time you shot someone and didn't get in trouble for it?

For me it was August last year.

The time before that was December 2013.

So fuck you if you don't have any 'first person direct experience in self defense shootings in the Republic" granted, I live in the (currently) free state of Arizona.

You talk a lot of shit, do you walk the talk?

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Not to start a dick measuring contest here, but when was the last time you shot someone and didn't get in trouble for it?

For me it was August last year.

The time before that was December 2013.

So fuck you if you don't have any 'first person direct experience in self defense shootings in the Republic" granted, I live in the (currently) free state of Arizona.

You talk a lot of shit, do you walk the talk?

Does Adam Baldwin know you're stealing his lines Animal Mother?

You must be the Rev. Jim from Taxi because you make about as much sense. First you quote scripture, bold and change text color about my butthole and now you're saying "fuck". Do you kiss your mom with that mouth sewer mouth?

 

[BCP]

If they had aerial footage from Kenosha, they certainly have footage to track where this person came from and where they went.

They probably don't care. When the BLM subhumans ransacked a friend of mine's business he turned over all of his security footage to LE and not one arrest happened. He had gigs of footage, they took it all and didn't do shit.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Moral of the story is operate like this guy, who is still free (unless he's a fed)

Bring me up to speed. What am I looking at?

 

[KZP]

Bring me up to speed. What am I looking at?

Allegedly they left two bombs somewhere in DC on Jan 5th, but failed to detonate. Somehow they have not been caught.

 

[Jim Out]

Does Adam Baldwin know you're stealing his lines Animal Mother?

You must be the Rev. Jim from Taxi because you make about as much sense. First you quote scripture, bold and change text color about my butthole and now you're saying "fuck". Do you kiss your mom with that mouth sewer mouth?

[/deflection fail]

So I guess your answer is "no"?

You have no personal experience, you just like to shoot off your cockholster on the internet.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

[/deflection fail]

So I guess your answer is "no"?

 

[Downzero]

Anyone have the highlights of the actual evidence presented today?

 

[Mike_in_FL]

cockholster

prison purse, fuck, cockholster. Homoerotic much? I heard the only thing in Arizona is steers and queers and I don't see no horns on youuuuuuu.


But seriously, are you still my keeper brother Rev. Jim?

 

[6.5SH]

Anyone have the highlights of the actual evidence presented today?

Bit long for highlights but decent commentary on each day so far:

 

[Last Chance]

There is quite a bit of precedent out there regarding self defense. Obviously, Kyle’s actions were self defense that night, but I think there will be some curve balls thrown. The defense will argue that Kyle was faced with several violent assaults and responded in a way that any reasonable person would have responded. That part is pretty cut and dry. The use of force expert will back up the reasonableness of Kyle’s actions. The videos will show that the police did not feel any threat from Kyle or the group he was with that night, and likely show that the rioters were their main concern. These are all good things. Now, the prosecutor will try to force a different angle on the jury. The big thing that will be raised over and over is that Kyle didn‘t have to be there that night. This was not Kyle’s neighborhood. They will say Kyle was looking for trouble. If they get the jury to bite on that angle, they will point out that self defense stops being self defense if you had reasonable knowledge that there would be trouble where you were going. They will say that Kyle should have known that there was a likelihood of something violent taking place that night, and with this knowledge he had an opportunity to not go. This is all going to hinge on how receptive the jury is to either side. In my many, many times in the courtroom, I have learned one thing, and that is the fact that juries are unpredictable. I have seen juries get hung up on the most minor detail, and I have also seen them acquit when there is overwhelming evidence. I think jury selection in this case will likely be the most important part of the trial unless someone one one side is sitting on a bombshell that will completely rock the other side.

THIS^^^

 

[Downzero]

Bit long for highlights but decent commentary on each day so far:

I like this guy. I'd enjoy debating him actually.

 

[Downzero]

THIS^^^

And that's why we have juries. They mostly get it right.

 

[tiger13]

Yes, it was fixed 1 or 2 years ago. Which pissed me off to no fucking end. We still don't have a codified set of conditions under which deadly force can be applied. It's all a hodgepodge of state supreme court decisions.

Ohioan here, it's amazing to me how much of the law is grey area. You're allowed to drink a beer in a boat as long as you're not "flagrant" about it. I think getting rid of the affirmative defense was a step in the right direction.

 

[NoDopes]

He had gigs of footage, they took it all and didn't do shit.

Clearly a civil matter...

 

[Downzero]

Bit long for highlights but decent commentary on each day so far:

Did you watch? The prosecutor definitely stepped in shit numerous times. I don't agree with his point of view on not calling witnesses because you have to impeach them--that was the law 300 years ago but the rules of evidence clearly allow impeaching one's own witness now and the concept that one vouches for a witness by calling him was abandoned about that long ago. But him even having to do it showed that he wasn't prepared and didn't know what his witness would say, which in a trial of this magnitude (any homicide/serious felony case) is certainly not good.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

Now, the prosecutor will try to force a different angle on the jury. The big thing that will be raised over and over is that Kyle didn‘t have to be there that night. This was not Kyle’s neighborhood. They will say Kyle was looking for trouble. If they get the jury to bite on that angle, they will point out that self defense stops being self defense

Man, are you lucky. When I talked about essentially the same concerns for the defendant, the nuts here went psycho.

 

[Downzero]

Man, are you lucky. When I talked about essentially the same concerns for the defendant, the nuts here went psycho.

I think if the prosecution makes a big deal out of that, jurors who might otherwise be inclined to convict will acquit of the more serious offenses. You can't convict someone of murder for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[nso123]

Man, are you lucky. When I talked about essentially the same concerns for the defendant, the nuts here went psycho.

The thing I see over and over is that people want the legal system to work the way they think it should work instead of the way it actually works. The prosecutor has to try and prove that elements of a crime were present, so it’s pretty predictable as to what he will do. He has to eliminate the self defense argument. Throw in the fact that the jury is receiving tremendous pressure from the left and this case is going to be hard to call. While an acquittal would be the best outcome, when the social justice world is stacked against you it will still be a win if they can hang a jury. A guilty verdict in this case would be a miscarriage of justice.

 

[Mike_in_FL]

I think if the prosecution makes a big deal out of that, jurors who might otherwise be inclined to convict will acquit of the more serious offenses. You can't convict someone of murder for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

While I agree with your second sentence, I think the first gives too much credit to the average juror, lol.

 

[The King]

If this were an actual murder trial instead of political persecution, I would say the ADA had fumbled this part of it horribly.

Instead, when you are trying to railroad someone into prison and your witness shows up with a helicopter to whisk the accused away, you are stuck with what you got.

You can only twist the truth so far, and when its 100% opposite of what you want it to be, and you need it to flip 100% its rough going real fast.

 

[The King]

The thing I see over and over is that people want the legal system to work the way they think it should work instead of the way it actually works. The prosecutor has to try and prove that elements of a crime were present, so it’s pretty predictable as to what he will do. He has to eliminate the self defense argument. Throw in the fact that the jury is receiving tremendous pressure from the left and this case is going to be hard to call. While an acquittal would be the best outcome, when the social justice world is stacked against you it will still be a win if they can hang a jury. A guilty verdict in this case would be a miscarriage of justice.

If I were the judge, I would state that anybody who makes any statement that even causes a flicker of anxiety among my jurors with regards to their personal safety will be held in jail on contempt of court until any possibility of harm to my jury had passed.

EG after all of them had died of natural causes.

 

[NoDopes]

Non-Vaccine, Covid heart attacks.

 

[6.5SH]

 

[7.62willdo]

If this were an actual murder trial instead of political persecution, I would say the ADA had fumbled this part of it horribly.

Instead, when you are trying to railroad someone into prison and your witness shows up with a helicopter to whisk the accused away, you are stuck with what you got.

You can only twist the truth so far, and when its 100% opposite of what you want it to be, and you need it to flip 100% its rough going real fast.

#1 rule of courtroom law…..never ask a question you don’t know the answer too……

 

[TimC in KY]

why did the cell phone message from Kyle on car lot manager Sam’s phone show the name Kyle if they had not met and Sam did not have Kyle’s phone #?

Looks like Kyle was in his saved contacts.

 

[Matches Malone]

why did the cell phone message from Kyle on car lot manager Sam’s phone show the name Kyle if they had not met and Sam did not have Kyle’s phone #?

Looks like Kyle was in his saved contacts.

Why does it matter?

 

[357Max]

Anmol/Sam is lying his ass off!

 

[TimC in KY]

Why does it matter?

Because he said earlier that he didn’t know Kyle. Then said that they did have a conversation but didn’t know why they were there. Also emphasized that thousands of people have his number.

 

[hlee]

why did the cell phone message from Kyle on car lot manager Sam’s phone show the name Kyle if they had not met and Sam did not have Kyle’s phone #?

Looks like Kyle was in his saved contacts.

Because in the 21st century it is possible for phones to connect names to numbers without human intervention? My phone regularly (not always but mostly) tells me who is calling (name and number) regardless of whether I have that entity saved as a contact.

 

[ArchAngel72]

Because in the 21st century it is possible for phones to connect names to numbers without human intervention? My phone regularly (not always but mostly) tells me who is calling (name and number) regardless of whether I have that entity saved as a contact.

THIS

Don't go reaching for something that is not there. Tech today will fill in that info for you and tell you whom texted or called. OR maybe the kid filled in that info after the text came in so he WOULD know who was texting him. Gee its not like any of us have ever updated a contacts name/number

 

[Downzero]

The thing I see over and over is that people want the legal system to work the way they think it should work instead of the way it actually works. The prosecutor has to try and prove that elements of a crime were present, so it’s pretty predictable as to what he will do. He has to eliminate the self defense argument. Throw in the fact that the jury is receiving tremendous pressure from the left and this case is going to be hard to call. While an acquittal would be the best outcome, when the social justice world is stacked against you it will still be a win if they can hang a jury. A guilty verdict in this case would be a miscarriage of justice.

I think most people think about politics in a way that examines a world they wish existed instead of the world that actually exists

 

[MtnGhost]

Because in the 21st century it is possible for phones to connect names to numbers without human intervention? My phone regularly (not always but mostly) tells me who is calling (name and number) regardless of whether I have that entity saved as a contact.

Referred to as CNAM

 

[Downzero]

While I agree with your second sentence, I think the first gives too much credit to the average juror, lol.

The comment isn't aimed at the average juror. The average juror makes up his mind based on trivial shit that has nothing to do with the evidence before the case even goes to them for deliberation.

 

[Marinevet1]

The comment isn't aimed at the average juror. The average juror makes up his mind based on trivial shit that has nothing to do with the evidence before the case even goes to them for deliberation.

I call bullshit..........I don't think any of the jurors had heard Rosenbaums statement, "if I catch you alone tonite, I will kill you", or the witness that stated he said, "Fuck you", and reached for the weapon..........those statements alone may change the opinion of any person............

and by the way, where did you study law?

 

[BAMAboy18]

It's such a tragedy in so many ways, I've presented a fire arm in self-defense, and I thank God, I've never had to shoot anyone. But every decision has consequences, many things should be well pondered in making the decision to carry. I feel bad for Kyle in his, well intentioned, ignorance, but he shouldn't have chosen to be there. This situation was way beyond the scope of a mere kid. I hope the best for him, he appears to be kind hearted and even if he goes free I can only imagine the anguish he'll live with the rest of his life. It's heartbreaking no matter what happens.

 

[LawnMM]

I can only imagine the anguish he'll live with the rest of his life.

 

[Matches Malone]

He’s referring to always being known as the Kenosha kid, and is presuming it will effect his life in a way like the cop that shot Michael Brown.

 

[Downzero]

I call bullshit..........I don't think any of the jurors had heard Rosenbaums statement, "if I catch you alone tonite, I will kill you", or the witness that stated he said, "Fuck you", and reached for the weapon..........those statements alone may change the opinion of any person............

and by the way, where did you study law?

I'd like to respond to you, but I have no idea how your response relates to my point, and I can't tell if I agree, disagree, or something else.

 

[LawnMM]

He’s referring to always being known as the Kenosha kid, and is presuming it will effect his life in a way like the cop that shot Michael Brown.

So somebody's going to break his orbital socket on behalf of the dirt bag and then fire him from a job he already had for doing nothing wrong?

I don't think it'll be QUITE like that. I took his meaning to be he'll be haunted by having shot three people.

Three people that would have gladly beat him to death if given the chance. Not sure escaping with your life is be described as a 'haunting' experience but everyone is different I suppose.

 

[Matches Malone]

I don't think it'll be QUITE like that. I took his meaning to be he'll be haunted by having shot three people.

Three people that would have gladly beat him to death if given the chance. Not sure escaping with your life is be described as a 'haunting' experience but everyone is different I suppose.

hmm. Maybe. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Either way, I agree to you point if that was the case. Those dudes fucked around, then found out.

 

[6.5SH]

 

[LawnMM]

hmm. Maybe. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Either way, I agree to you point if that was the case. Those dudes fucked around, then found out.

Reminds me of the old Chinese proverb: Man who bring skateboard to battle against man with rifle learn heart breaking lesson.

 

[Maser]

Man, the prosecution team did so good the first couple days and now have taken a total nosedive! Gotta love the witness the prosecution brought in who is supposedly an inventory manager, but yet couldn't answer how much inventory was lost during the defense's cross examination. I also gotta say even though I'm on Kyle's side, my all time favorite person in this trial is the judge. I wish all criminal court judges were like that!

Looking forward to Monday when the guy who was "disarmed" by Kyle testifies.