Rotation of the Earth?

[desertHK]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 175G</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I dont get it. If we are on a a ship playing artillery it is a consideration. I am a crappy-ass shooter that's a given and at RO at the 900 small left target held NOTHING for wind and hit everytime but for the right target I had to hold 1.4 mills. At 1250 I held 4mils in 25mph full value to hit 12 times I don't even know how the wind was changing down range and at elevation. My point here is will anyone EVER be in a zero wind condition at +1000 for this argument to even make a difference? Seems moot </div></div>

Borrowing the words from 175G's previous signature line "You can't argue with P****". Please don't take it the wrong way.

 

[Lindy]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

And, in addition, paying attention to coriolis, spin drift, and/or the Eötvös effect, when one is ignoring or does not have relatively good data on muzzle velocity variation due to temperature is...to be kind, silly.

That was reinforced for me this week shooting at long distances in temperature around 40 degrees with a BP of 30.65 inches of mercury, where 175 SMKs were falling out of the sky at 900 yards, in addition to the effect of a full-value 15 knot wind.

Not to mention that none of it will matter if one slaps the F#$%ing trigger.

Part of the art of marksmanship - and everything else - is knowing what to pay attention to, and what to ignore.

 

[CenCalSplicer]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

Damn... I have alot to learn.

 

[goober]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

My A B C theory


<span style="color: #FF0000">
What do you care what I do or not do ?</span>
Firstly excuse me if I repeat what I said
Personally it does not matter to me what ever way you shoot Frank .I am not trying to prod the Bear in the cage and call you out about this and I do not doubt your well earn't ability to engage and hit a target better than many -you have the practice under your belt and are speaking from a practical experience point of view.
My point is simply if you can start closer to a zero'd sighted position and not 1/4 moa out at a 1000 yards because of the earths movement why would you not

-if you slap the trigger or miss-read the wind by 3 mile's per hour sure you will miss but by even more than what you could have had you started in a better Zero'd position .

I doubt , no I know I am not anywhere near the shooter you are and because of this I will always give myself the upper hand rather than an upper cut when shooting . I think it sensible others do that too if they can .In saying that I was smashing 7" x 7" steel on Saturday at 1 kilometer -not that hard when your ballistics are sorted -but them again I missed more than a few!

Regards

 

[175G]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was smashing 7" x 7" steel on Saturday at 1 kilometer </div></div>

Kickass! The shooting and shooting very well is what works in your head and so I suppose if it works for you then stick with it but it has very little to do with practical application. Seriously jump off the earth and see where you land. A projectile is moving so much faster. Sorry but ROTE is such nonsense for anything but large artillery. But if it works for you in your head to think this stuff then stick with it. In the meantime I blame it on the rain.

 

[goober]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

175G what is not practical about starting at the closet zero'd point possible rather than not starting there, we are talking about a mathematical and identifiable process- just as easy to accept it than not , now that's practical !!!

Hey , at the end of the day if you think the earth is flat that's upto you and doesn't affect me one iota but for those wanting to learn more some of us will preach strict identifiable doctrine about doing it right . It is equally as easy to do so as it is not do so , so I will do so .

 

[tullius]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

Great, the heavyweight ch'e has weighed in..

175, y'all got as little wind in Tejas as Brisbane has dry land right now.

I really like the 'jump off the earth & see where you land' argument, however.

 

[goober]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

<span style="color: #FF0000">Great, the heavyweight ch'e has weighed in..
</span>

Off ya knees Tullius and wipe ya eyes , I'm just a man like you ..... jus better

 

[175G]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">175G what is not practical about starting at the closet zero'd point possible rather than not starting there</div></div> Yes I agree its a good idea but there are SO MANY MORE things that could cause your zeroed point to be wrong ROTE is the last one

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey , at the end of the day if you think the earth is flat that's upto you</div></div> No human has experienced a flat earth so everything we do is adapted to a round spinning earth.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ch'e</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for those wanting to learn more some of us will preach strict identifiable doctrine about doing it right . It is equally as easy to do so as it is not do so , so I will do so . </div></div> As I said before if it works for you in your head to think about such things and take them into consideration, and obviously it does since you are shooting so well, then do so, but in the grand scheme of things for any other shooter who is not firing remotely with a robotic delayed trigger its the least of all considerations. Doing it right is subjective and I spend the greater part of every free second considering these arguments and others and while I agree that it works for you to think about and calculate this for the real world its nonsense. Not that the science doesn't work its the application that is nonsense.

 

[jrob300]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

I think part of the reason there is so much controversy over this is that it is not understood by most in the context of the larger discussion, and this is what I now understand Frank and others have been trying to say.

Think of the following list as a representation of things that could affect the difference between where you want your bullet to go and where it actually lands. Now let's list them in order of percentage of influence. Since those item's may be different for different shooters, we'll just start with A and go down. So:

A 24%
B 18%
C 15%
D 13%
E 11%
F 8%
G 4%
H 3%
I 2%
J 1%
K .5%
L .5%

Obviously, it is of most benefit to change the items in the A-F range if you can, as they have the most bang for buck. If one of them is the fundamentals of basic marksmanship, reading wind or having your rifle bedded, then that is where the attention should go.

Working hard at K will get completely lost in the noise if C is still not nailed down.

If you've completely conquered A-H, by all means start to pay attention to things like I-L. This is where Spin Drift and CE lay in the bigger scheme of things. They absolutely exist, but MOST shooters would benefit from putting their mental energy and range attention to other things first.

There are guys on this forum that have developed their system and their shooting to where this is the final frontier... some have weighed in here in this thread, but they are rare. For most of us this is perhaps a future consideration, but the energy is best used elsewhere.

This made sense to me, perhaps others when they see the same information represented differently, will have an "Ahah!" moment.

.02

John

 

[Shooter21]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

ROTE is going to affect your shot <.3 mils pretty much all the time and <.1 mils on most shots unless you are beyond 3500m, at which distance is going to play a HUGE role in your shot. If you want to factor ROTE into your shot, by all means do so, but do not preach it as a must. If your target is so small that .1 mil is make or break for center mass.... GET CLOSER!!!, or sling a few until you know what needs to happen. FYI most people can't shoot .1 MIL, especially in field conditions!!!

 

[AndyMan87]

Re: Rotation of the Earth?

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