-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Rifle Scopes S&B PM II 5-25 vs. NF ATACR 7-35
- Thread starter TipToeTango
- Start date
Which scope manufacturers, specifically, have you visited, that have a PM2 being used as their basis for design? Id go as far to say most optics manufacturers have their competitors scopes in house, but I don't see enough in common with any of the larger manufacturers to say even a single one is "copying" another.
Id say take a peak at any firearm manufacturer and see which scope they have on their rifles... Heres a hint, the majority are running Nightforce. Shot Show was the same story with all the big dogs running NF scopes either exclusively, or with the majority on their setups.
Edit- damn it! he got me. Troll joined yesterday.
The ATACR 7-35 is packed with a lot of neat features, and it is newer than the 5-25. Size wise its basically the same, and while you may not see much of a difference between 5 and 7x on the magnification side, where you will see the difference is the parallax down to 10m on the 7-35. I was able to set my scope up inside the house and focus on a wall for cant/level with absolute clarity... This makes the 7x quite usable even on a shorter range where as most scopes with this level of magnification really cant be. In addition, if youre ever going to shoot 1400+ meters and max that caliber out, having 35x on the top end and not using it tends to work a lot better than needing 25x and maxing it out to get there. I personally run the 7-35 out to 1 mile, and I can say it is fantastic even in the 30x range, where I am able to spot my own shots on a torso steel. Some of the features I also prefer on NF, is the easiest to use (at least that ive found) zero stop, digital illumination in dual color and multiple brightness, included PTL setup and awesome lens covers, and the satisfaction of knowing it wont ever break or leave you stranded.
Cool bro, factory (american) rifles showing of another (American) scope company hmmmmmm......
your sit here and argue and wine and say oh yea man nightforce is on show rifles at show show so it's #1 lol if that's the case let me put you back down with your own argurmeant.
how many of these top rifles 3-8000$ Systems run nightforce on them, none it's a pm2. How many pm2 do you see on rifles at shot, I see quite a few, go to Europe and see how many nightforce you see at shows. 0 you got nothing but schmidts along side these 5-10,000$ rifles, and here in America you see tons of schmidts. Oh and hey pal here's a (HINT) ask any known member in the shooting community who are involved with these dealers and have the privilege to test products and are inside all the companies. Ask the god himself frank who's forum your in and ask him what scope are all these top optics copying, here's another (hint) it's not a bunch of competitors, it's a pm2
Maybe you missed my shot show pics... Accuracy International, Barrett, 90% of the rifles from Mile High Shooting... Better yet, see for yourself.
Again... Troll away and make my day go by faster.
Oh my god bro cool take your butt hurt ass away. You are making yourself look dumb. Cool some top rifles have (some) nightforce scopes on them yes I said that I didn't say otherwise. I can also recap seeing 5 x the amount of schmidts at shot show on rifles then what you just showed me, oh yea and like I mentioned (0 in Europe) what does that pic prove? What I already new and agreed with that I new rifles had nightforce on them? Like cool bro, really cool send me a pic of a show anywhere in the world but u.s that are showing there military and special forces sniper rifles and tell me how many you see advertised with a nightforce. It's 0 bro 0.Maybe you missed my shot show pics... Accuracy International, Barrett, 90% of the rifles from Mile High Shooting... Better yet, see for yourself.
Again... Troll away and make my day go by faster.
I didn't think they let kids under 18 in... I also don't think you understand what many of the people on here do for a living. Rest assured, I see first hand what the "big boys" run. Maybe Call of Duty needs to update their option list so you can get with the times... Bro.
Oh
abd I'm glad you showed me that mike high pic because now I can say this. It's funny your bragging about nightforce being (displayed) on rifles at mile high (guys by the way I have the up most respect for) but the workers at mile high or the few main ones that I see and here of there setups run a 5-25 pm2 ???????? so please stop
Yet I'm here literally proving you wrong. Seriously I'm not some dick trolling, that's you. I've been having civil debates on this post as you can look back and see saying and proving (facts) while also maintaining respect and acknowledging what a good tier 1 optic nightforce is. And here you are another nightforce bias guy talking to someone who has both, and getting proven wrong while you sit and cry and post how good your nightforce is
Let me clarify.....problems presented themselves on the square range. They dont even see rigors of deployment before they fail in one way or another.
I was trying to show they were not abused as suggested.
Failure rates and acceptance test rehections are all well documented in gov. That info will never see light of day on a public forum unless its leaked.
The discussion is really hot. I was a NF fan. and NF scope is still pretty good no matter what I say. The specific scope got tested was just the 7-35. Not NXS, not 5-25, so I have no idea about others. It was damaged during a military evaluation project when choosing scope for the system. I'm requesting the pics for the scope broken out but I may or not get it. But the team went really far as they didnt care about if NF can fix the piece, they care more about why it was not working and if it could be a good fit for the success of that package.
What I do notice, is how often SB was chosen for military sniper system and how less often NF was chosen (I actually dont know a single one but that's just me). Military contract process may be slow and full of crap, but it should be the same for choosing between SB and NF.
Scope is a personal choice and personal money, I recommend SB based on my experience and knowledge that's it. This would be my last post unless I receive photos for everyone's eye.
What I do notice, is how often SB was chosen for military sniper system and how less often NF was chosen (I actually dont know a single one but that's just me). Military contract process may be slow and full of crap, but it should be the same for choosing between SB and NF.
Scope is a personal choice and personal money, I recommend SB based on my experience and knowledge that's it. This would be my last post unless I receive photos for everyone's eye.
I use both equally, you guys are comical splitting hairs like this,
One issue I will state is, or was:
When S&B went to the locking turret they took a quality hit, the DT, and the Ultra Short style turrets are very good, the Locking Turret has had more issues than they should. That said, both are great scopes.
Another issue worth noting, NF had that time where things were moving incredibly slow were most other companies were moving very fast. Since then, NF has done an excellent job releasing products that have been a quick hit, at a good price point. Where S&B had a to correct their direction within the market.
Both are excellent optics, and you all are splitting hairs on the rest of the debate.
PS, stop reporting each other, if you can't fight your own battle, don't start one. leave me out of your drama
One issue I will state is, or was:
When S&B went to the locking turret they took a quality hit, the DT, and the Ultra Short style turrets are very good, the Locking Turret has had more issues than they should. That said, both are great scopes.
Another issue worth noting, NF had that time where things were moving incredibly slow were most other companies were moving very fast. Since then, NF has done an excellent job releasing products that have been a quick hit, at a good price point. Where S&B had a to correct their direction within the market.
Both are excellent optics, and you all are splitting hairs on the rest of the debate.
PS, stop reporting each other, if you can't fight your own battle, don't start one. leave me out of your drama
Great post above.. agreed on the locking turrets. I have my locking turrets without MTC so essentially it feels and performs like the DT. You nailed it frank ?
and to all the little girls who reported me who we were having a manly disscussion you should be ashamed of being a cry baby and reporting. haha I didn't report You so it's a good
I know right, they reported me. They were but hurt. I was being giving factual replies and was even giving nightforce props on being a top tier 1 brand to not offend the people with a great optic, and they reported me. You know who you are Fenix mike
Frank comes in a lays down the law and everyone shuts up a listens haha that guys the GOAT man
I'll be the sacrificial lamb here and start this up again but in a good way. How about everyone shares what they like and dislike about both scopes and features you that one has that would help improve the other. And things you would like to see done differently?
I'll be the sacrificial lamb here and start this up again but in a good way. How about everyone shares what they like and dislike about both scopes and features you that one has that would help improve the other. And things you would like to see done differently?
Covert, your floor and doors are really nice. Can I come live with you?
I guess they grow men differently up there than they do where I'm from, because skimming through some of your comments reminds me of 5th grade, ...bro.
Stop the bullshit trolling and stick with what matters.
Here's another tool. Like wow is it just because I'm not American. I know you folks are proud and all but clearly as other people have mentioned there is nothing inappropriate with what I said. You have others wining and complaining, but there American so i guess it's cool. Stick with what matters you say? Okay so iguess durability and ruggedness doesn't matter and what optics are being (displayed) Is what matters like the guys I was arguing with were saying. Like go away you sound as ignorant a wrong as them. Why don't you act and cry like them to and report me fir hurting your feelings.
Staff or not I'm not guna get called out and treated like a b**ch by nobody, staff or not. I have respect fir everybody on here, I respect the companies I have been talking about, and said so, I said I respected all guys that the other guy was talking about at mile high, and yet they are ripping companies and saying all this crap and nothing gets said to them? Nah man do what you want tell frank or do whatever staff members do, but I'm not guna be called out and treated like a link when I was actually showing RESPECT.
You got guys complaining, saying there scope is better cause it's displayed on rifles at shot show, like really dude your giving me crap when your staff and I'm showing respect to guys and you got little babies on here reporting me to frank? Like it or not I say how it is, just like frank, a no bullshit guy witch is why he is respected. That's why I'm straight up with you even though you have staff on your name because I'm an honest straight up dude who is greatful fir guys like frank and yes even you, but I sure as hell am not taking someone trying to pin this on me
I'm pretty sure that the rest of us are tired of your antics too. You obviously are so caught up in yourself that you have no idea when it's time to shut up. This isn't about S&B vs. Nightforce. Your just being a troll at this point. You know it and so does everyone else here. I own a PMII and would like to have a Nightforce 7-35, like my friend has. I happen to to like the PMII for what I use it one, but could give two fucks how long it will last in battle (something I doubt you have any real knowledge of based upon your communication level).
Why don't you go troll on Arfcom for a while and let this die?
No seriously, this isn't even popcorn funny anymore
Why don't you go troll on Arfcom for a while and let this die?
No seriously, this isn't even popcorn funny anymore
Haha thanks. We got to get together again and shoot some. I’m thinking about picking up an AT. Might have to try yours again first though.
So the convo was over then somebody calls me out and I'm not allowed to respond? What just cause you don't got a spine doesn't mean I have to keep my mouth shut when someone calls me out. And seeing as some people are agreeing with me and have called out the actual trolls and there rants calling stuff garbage and washed it's not me. And your opinion really doesn't matter seeing as you are telling me you don't care how much these tactical optics last. Lol pretty sure that's one of the first things tested by military and PRS guys is how rugged is this scope. Why do you think all these reviewers on optics beat the hell out of the optics, cause they are told to and it's is one of the most important aspects of a scope. So you can eat your comment
I don’t think anyone is being shy. I’ll give it a go. I wish the 5-45 s&b was about $1.5k cheaper that’s why I went NF. I also prefer how NF marks the .5 mil marks on the turret. I like being able to set my zero stop at 1 or 1.5 mimil below 0 for my different barrels. I prefer the mil-c to any s&b reticle so far. I wish the NF had locking turrets. Mine have never moved in the field but It would be nice peace of mind. I also wish NF and S&B both did 10 Mils per rev. That’s why my s&b 5-20 is a backup optic for me, I hate the spacing on the turret. I much prefer the illumination on the NF
Well, maybe you didn't notice that prior to me making the mistake of feeding the troll, you were having a conversation with yourself. That's why I figured that if I gave you a pointer, you'd get the hint. I'll be done now, since I have better things to do. Argue with yourself. Your doing a good job so far.
The quoting of yourself and replying in kind numerous times is a clear sign of mental illness. Seek help. Somewhere.
oh here we go, someone using an iPhone and clicking on my own post reply is such a big stupid idiotic mistake lol check your statement about 4000$ optics not mattering about ruggedness
you are a tool buddy, go play captain America in your room with your plastic gun
Yes, but until I see them in person I’ll hold judgment. I do think they have some promise though.
I think nightforce does a really good job listening to customers and kind of having a little something for everybody. It's pretty known that Schmidt and bender has always been quite in the shooting community in regards of publicly supporting things like PRS but now I believe people are saying they are changing that and are taking ownership of that and wanting to be more involved. Do you think big things could be coming from Schmidt in the next 5 year now because of that
You're always welcome to shoot it. Only thing that might hold you back on it is that it has a NF 7-35 on it. I know it's a total POS but i'm guessing you'll make do.
I got that inside joke. very Funny.... lol cleverYou're always welcome to shoot it. Only thing that might hold you back on it is that it has a NF 7-35 on it. I know it's a total POS but i'm guessing you'll make do.
I’m way more interested in the Flir HISS in the pics above than either of
these optics . Both are reliable , but old designs with their own ‘ quirks ‘ .
On the NF , some don’t like the spinny eyepiece that dates back to the
original NXS , ironically designed by March’s Mr Shimizu when he was at
Light Optic Works . You can thank him for the 10 yard focus too .
The Schmidt still has the illumination lump , some don’t like that . Neither
optic has enough elevation for big Magnum ELR without either holding on
the reticle , or adding an Ivey mount or Tacom prism . The market is due
for some new innovation in that area .
these optics . Both are reliable , but old designs with their own ‘ quirks ‘ .
On the NF , some don’t like the spinny eyepiece that dates back to the
original NXS , ironically designed by March’s Mr Shimizu when he was at
Light Optic Works . You can thank him for the 10 yard focus too .
The Schmidt still has the illumination lump , some don’t like that . Neither
optic has enough elevation for big Magnum ELR without either holding on
the reticle , or adding an Ivey mount or Tacom prism . The market is due
for some new innovation in that area .
You're always welcome to shoot it. Only thing that might hold you back on it is that it has a NF 7-35 on it. I know it's a total POS but i'm guessing you'll make do.
Hey Dave, does it have Schott glass? It's only a P.O.S if it doesn't have Schott glass.. I went the PM II route once, now I'm the proud owner of a 7-35 Mil-C...
I wish I had not wasted valuable minutes of my life reading this derailed turd of a thread, but if there is a silver lining, it is your comment. Thank you!
I added Geniune to my ignore list... the thread shrunk to almost 1 page!
All fun aside, if anyone is in AZ and wants to see the 7-35 in person, im out with it every week pushing to 1 mile. I don't throw mine off cliffs, crush it under a vehicle, or give it the abuse that apparently some scopes regularly see, but its been good to me, just like the rest of my NF stuff. I set the zero stop once and havent had to touch the zero since. I cold bore and warm up at 800m, then 1000m, then 1 mile, and since 300 win doesnt know what wind adjustment is, I just dial up and shoot
After having a close call with a 338 Lapua chamber failure, im a bit skittish to use anything else.
All fun aside, if anyone is in AZ and wants to see the 7-35 in person, im out with it every week pushing to 1 mile. I don't throw mine off cliffs, crush it under a vehicle, or give it the abuse that apparently some scopes regularly see, but its been good to me, just like the rest of my NF stuff. I set the zero stop once and havent had to touch the zero since. I cold bore and warm up at 800m, then 1000m, then 1 mile, and since 300 win doesnt know what wind adjustment is, I just dial up and shoot
After having a close call with a 338 Lapua chamber failure, im a bit skittish to use anything else.
I have been lucky to borrow a friends S&B 5-25 with a Horus in it for the last few months as he re-works his 338. By far, it is an outstanding optic. His does not have the MTC or LT’s. After playing with NF, Vortex, Kahles, USO, S&B, and more at SHOT, I think I will end up with the 7-35 based largely on reticle pattern with clicks that I like (similar to MTC). I also appreciate that both have the ability to have very close parallax adjustments, as that is nice for dry fire and set up.
I always suggest to folks that they find a reticle they like, then pick from other features from there. There are so many great options, it is hard to go wrong in the 2k+ arena if it fits what you need.
I always suggest to folks that they find a reticle they like, then pick from other features from there. There are so many great options, it is hard to go wrong in the 2k+ arena if it fits what you need.
Similar threads
