Night Vision Safran TAD

[Dogtown]

Thermal Augmentation Device Update: Available for Preorder! | Soldier Systems Daily

Redlands, California— TNVC and Safran Defense & Space, Inc. (Safran DSI), formerly Safran Optics 1, are excited to announce the release of the Thermal A ...

soldiersystems.net

Looks like units will be available by the end of August (which probably means Sept/Oct). What's interesting to me is that this doesn't appear to just be a stripped down E-COTI. Instead, it's got a slightly higher resolution 10 micron core that only operates in Full Thermal / Outline modes (no more Patrol).

 

[Evolution 9]

Patrol was the preferred mode for many if not most users…

I do hope this makes more sense than it seems.

The improved resolution is welcomed.

 

[Dogtown]

Agreed - the lack of Patrol Mode kind of surprised me.

 

[wigwamitus]

I heard a rumor the "AI" was not installed due to "The Army didn't pay for it". Not even sure what that means.
But if that's true then maybe the Army didn't pay for patrol mode either !!??

As to improved resolution ... there might be multiple definitions. In general - more pixels = more resolution, BUTT, some people compare the pixels versus the area in the FOV (at a nominal distance) to generate a "pixel per square yard" sort of metric. And based on that idea, the chinese ecoti (IRAY) I have doubles the FOV (4x the area) ... so I think the "resolution" based on pixels per square yard is unchanged from the 320. But, there are 4 times as many pixels and that does help me see the cows in 3D ... i.e. some shading visible inside 150ish yds, whereas with 320 safran coti, I see 2D only (no shading).
Strangely, I had a hard time getting used to the thermal overlay covering the whole 14 image. And I didn't expect to have a hard time. I was just so used to being able to see both the NV image and the thermal image separately with the 320 coti. Helped differentiate rocks from nada rocks and such.

 

[Evolution 9]

In this case, the advertisement says the FOV is unchanged from ECOTI at 30 degrees so any extra resolution should actually be extra resolution.

I don’t expect slight improvements in resolution to be super beneficial but it’s hard to imagine it being a bad thing.

 

[Dogtown]

While I got used to the FOV and was impressed by the image on such a tiny unit, it was a challenge to get the E-COTI image restricted to warm outliers in the environment. The whole strength of Patrol mode is that your NV image does the heavy lifting, and the thermal overlay is only showing the warmest objects within your FOV. But practically I found it would show me far too much range of temperature, leading to much of the FOV awash in thermal noise. Playing with the Gain and Offset to try to set a temperature floor value was tricky and often unsuccessful on my end. In the end, it seemed like the unit worked best in the middle of the night when the environment had reached a temperature equilibrium, making the terrain disappear and animals pop.

No doubt, it’s still a very powerful add on capability, but I personally am back to holding out for something new that will have better control over the temperature range.

 

[Dogtown]

Actually, the more I think about it: what are the odds that the lack of Patrol Mode is just an effort to not hurt E-COTI sales?

 

[wigwamitus]

... the advertisement says the FOV is unchanged from ECOTI at 30 degrees so any extra resolution should actually be extra resolution ..

Ah, but I was comparing to the 320 coti which is 20 FOV.

 

[wigwamitus]

... While I got used to the FOV and was impressed by the image on such a tiny unit, it was a challenge to get the E-COTI image restricted to warm outliers in the environment. The whole strength of Patrol mode is that your NV image does the heavy lifting, and the thermal overlay is only showing the warmest objects within your FOV. But practically I found it would show me far too much range of temperature, leading to much of the FOV awash in thermal noise. Playing with the Gain and Offset to try to set a temperature floor value was tricky and often unsuccessful on my end. In the end, it seemed like the unit worked best in the middle of the night when the environment had reached a temperature equilibrium, making the terrain disappear and animals pop.

Interesting, I've killed more than 100, but less than 200 critters with coti 320 and taken it out 100s more times and my brain never encountered this issue. I was in KS then, Flint Hills area so some woods, creeks and hills, but lots of open hilly pastures.
I used across all the seasons, summer and winter up to 100F and down to -27F.

Are you in NV ? I would think things would be even better there ! Less water in the air on average.

==

But I have heard one more person describe similar symptoms to what you're describing so it must be a thing !

 

[rlsmith1]

Is this sensor meaningfully smaller to find its way into mother devices? Seems like an improvement, although incremental

 

[wigwamitus]

10/12 = 83.333 so its 16.666 % smaller ... definitely meaningful !!
But when we went from 17 to 12 we had 12/17 = 70.58 ... or 29.4% smaller ... so just a little more than half that difference.

 

[Dogtown]

Are you in NV ? I would think things would be even better there ! Less water in the air on average.

Northern CA and NV - so dry, yes. But for example, an hour after dusk I can move through an area where I get warm vegetation and rocks that make for a busy image with critters showing up just a tad brighter. Tweaking the Gain and Offset can kind of make the background stuff start to fade, but it also makes the critters fade. What I want is basically thermal floor/ceiling values so that I can intuitively exclude mildly warm terrain features while making sure clearly warm critters and people show-up fairly brightly.

 

[wigwamitus]

Well if the rocks and critters are all 100F ish ... then separating them might actually be tough ! Its usually not that hot in KS (or MO where I am now). But the rocks ought to cool off fast after the sun goes down - if the air does ! So, yeah, on hot summer days you might have to wait a couple of hours.

 

[Dogtown]

I'm not even talking summer - I ran into this problem just last April where it was pretty temperate all day, yet all of the brush that had been in 70 degree overcast was filling my FOV with lower glowing patches and my buddy 20m away was bright. So I just got the impression that it was difficult to clamp the range of thermal values being projected, and the device got used less and less. I may try one of these TADs at some point, but don't have a lot of faith in it being any different given the lineage. My instinct says "wait until something new shows up" in the coming years.

 

[Evolution 9]

With a 320 COTI I’ve had conditions where it was useless and also conditions where I noticed people who I never would have noticed without it (turned off COTI and the person wasn’t visible at all with 2900 FOM filmless tubes).

Much of the West has a real rock problem in terms of false positives. Many are large boulders with just a small amount visible above ground. These can hold enough heat to be almost indistinguishable from live animals until about 4am. I’ve learned to avoid certain areas when it’s been hot/sunny since the thermal will provide little advantage.

 

[Conqueror]

Augee has confirmed to me more than once that the TAD has a new "High Contrast" mode which is identical to Patrol Mode. Everything I've read and heard indicates that the TAD is basically just a SWaP-improved ECOTI without ATAK. I pre-ordered last October so I should be receiving my unit in the first wave later this month. I will report back.

 

[Dogtown]

Interesting - good to know.