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Savage Kaboom at Local Range
- Thread starter enichols
- Start date
Everybody’s mother: “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.”
DarnYankee’s mother: “I’m so proud of you!”
Sirhr
DarnYankee’s mother: “I’m so proud of you!”
Sirhr
Coincidentally there's a slightly scuffed Nikon scope and "lightly used" Savage barrel on Ebay...
It wasn't destroyed. It was a rapid unplanned disassembly.
Look on accurate shooter, there is an article on what happens if you load pistol powder in a rifle round.
The destruction is almost identical also a Savage action only the scope was blown in half as well, must not have been a Nikon
Fuck it i will post it again for you.
What Happens When You Load Pistol Powder in a Rifle Cartridge « Daily Bulletin
This is a grim tale. A man almost lost the use of his right hand, and did suffer terrible injuries to his fingers. All because he picked the wrong bottle of powder off the shelf. <img src=http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/denny1501.
To the fellow who said everyone on Snipershide is an expert reloader who gets much of max speeds, read my electrons, not everyone, especially not this one.
As far as max loads and starting loads, I have a wonderful story. Not only use book loads, but cross-reference with several books. Once upon a time I owned a Remington 700 in .25-06, in the days when multiple books were not available. Yes I got away fine with loads that the one book available had, even though now we recognize the book used a rifle with a lot and lot of freebore, something the Remington did not have. But, that’s not the story. The story is a lovely little Kimber Predator.
Using a load that was no more than half of max, I went to a silhouette match. It was summer time, it was hot in Jackson Mississippi that day. Barely could get the bolt open. I worked this load up, but when the temps got above 100, even that load was too hot. It was a beautiful handgun. #171 of 200. It survived the day, but I sold it not long after as I was abusing A piece of art.
So the point, its not just reference, but as far as what works fine in my firearm, may very well destroy yours. Don’t be the one begging everyone for some hot load or some accurate load. Do the work, its half the fun and a wonderful accomplishment when done.
I don’t have any surviving pictures of mine but this is #1 of 200
As far as max loads and starting loads, I have a wonderful story. Not only use book loads, but cross-reference with several books. Once upon a time I owned a Remington 700 in .25-06, in the days when multiple books were not available. Yes I got away fine with loads that the one book available had, even though now we recognize the book used a rifle with a lot and lot of freebore, something the Remington did not have. But, that’s not the story. The story is a lovely little Kimber Predator.
Using a load that was no more than half of max, I went to a silhouette match. It was summer time, it was hot in Jackson Mississippi that day. Barely could get the bolt open. I worked this load up, but when the temps got above 100, even that load was too hot. It was a beautiful handgun. #171 of 200. It survived the day, but I sold it not long after as I was abusing A piece of art.
So the point, its not just reference, but as far as what works fine in my firearm, may very well destroy yours. Don’t be the one begging everyone for some hot load or some accurate load. Do the work, its half the fun and a wonderful accomplishment when done.
I don’t have any surviving pictures of mine but this is #1 of 200
I see a front base screw was still attached to a separated part of the receiver. Torqued properly.
Saw a peeled Magnum once don't recall the caliber ,it was back when SS actions barrels were just coming around . It looked as if someone had literally peeled the barrel away from the action in #3 strips .
I personally was on the 27 yd. trap line one evening ,when shrapnel flew from #3 stations away . Shooter next door station was killed head trauma .
Russian made O/U and Not cheap . I knew both shooter and victim . Factory loads NOT reload on that incident local PD held everybody for hours while investigation proceeded .
Karma fate apropos call it what you will , two months later same shooter different range during a league shoot was killed on the 16 yd. line . Seems another shooter's homemade load went boom and killed George . Illegal loads and obviously overloaded were the culprit .
I was eating at a local restaurant awaiting MY division's shoot off ,when a mutual friend came in and told us what went down and all was canceled of course . Sad night had known George for 30 + years
This wasn't mine but saw one similar ,some folks just don't understand PRESSURE in a confined space !.
I learned early ,went into My old Bosses garage to get some tools for work early one AM and met a Bobcat !!. Not the mechanical type either
Attachments
I know everyone wants to hate on Savage, but I don't know if there is enough here to do so. Savage may be budget tier Fudd-bait, but I strongly challenge you all on the assertion they are UNSAFE.
Given the evidence (which is scant) guns just don't explode. I think the strongest guess is a handload issue. No action on earth is idiot proof as the level of idiot keeps accelerating.
I am not an expert reloader, but I know that things can quickly go away, so I am apt to blame the ammo. That said I have had a gun go tits up. (Shoutgun flare out near chole tube-factory ammo at range), so it could happen, just Ocams razor.
Given the evidence (which is scant) guns just don't explode. I think the strongest guess is a handload issue. No action on earth is idiot proof as the level of idiot keeps accelerating.
I am not an expert reloader, but I know that things can quickly go away, so I am apt to blame the ammo. That said I have had a gun go tits up. (Shoutgun flare out near chole tube-factory ammo at range), so it could happen, just Ocams razor.
LOL. This crowd doesn`t need anything approaching facts in this case to use it as an opportunity to rag on Savage. If they didn`t, they`d have to turn in their Tikka fan club cards
Attach files
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...7170933&hash=bb0bce31aa8cf798cf7cec58dc511171
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I used to be an extreme poor, now I'm just a regular poor, so I can afford nice guns if I drive shit vehicles. When I had to shoot Savages, I would epoxy the scope base to the receiver with devcon steel epoxy. They don't come loose without a heat gun if you do it right.
Savage makes the perfect piece of shit for the diy tinker. Scope bases, extractors, ejector, bolt lift, firing pin fall and protrusion...all are fixable. I
I’m not going to defend Savage.
I will say that I purchased my old Savage plain-jane with the factory tupperware stock. Added a Warne base, 10x SWFA and a Harris Bipod. The gun shot 3/4- 1/2 with factory ammo out of the box. It was by far the easiest rifle to handload for achieving under .5 moa with minimal effort.
For a guy that had never shot over 200 yards, I was out past 1000 yards with ease. For the next 2000 rounds, that is how she rolled, out to 1160 yrds.
Later I would upgrade the glass, chassis, bipod and scope base and add a “lift kit”(small piece of steel with the ball bearing in it).
It was when only I changed to the Seekins base, did it come loose. Until I saw Lowlight’s post in this thread, I just assumed the aluminum base was the culprit. I bedded and reattached it and never had another issue.
That .308 served me better than I could have asked for for some 5k rounds, at which time the barrel burned out. For various reasons I decided to go with the Rem 700 platform going forward.
I will always be grateful for that rifle early in my learning process. It allowed me to focus on the other aspects of precision rifle and not give up out of frustration.
Having said all of that my story is a factual anecdote. The plural of anecdote is not data…….
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I was at my local gun store/indoor range last year shooting the shit and these 2 guys shooting a 9mm pistol caught our attention. There was a foot or two of flash coming out of the front of the barrel. They finished up and walked out and I was like 'Man, what kind of ammo were you shooting' and they said they use their coworkers reloads.. I walked back after they left and picked up some of the brass. Flattened primers, pierced primers, missing primers. I am surprised people don't blow up their guns more often.
As is with most situations ,it's the dipstick behind the mechanism which is DANGEROUS .
I own a couple of Older SS Savages and out of the box trigger ,accuracy along with Money ; I defy anyone to equal it . Ugly Bolt and lackluster appearance granted but Accuracy and dependability it will hold it's own with any manufacturer .
That S&W model 29 ,that had the cylinder relocated ,didn't stop sales a fraction . Sir Issac stated it best ; For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction .
Just remember it's NOT always and overloaded cartridge ,which can ruin your day and under filled FLASH OVER can most certainly do damage .
A close Friend was fire forming cases for some old WWl French rifle and neglected to get enough Dacron on top of the powder ,so as the rifle became horizontal powder fell forward . Primer ignited overtop of powder rendering extractor and bolt face unusable . The action held but was worthless after that . If any of you have ever witnessed a Back Draft during a fire ,it's the same principle .
One of our less than stellar club members decided one evening he knew more than reloading manuals , was shooting cast bullets out of an AR using Blue Dot powder . Sometimes you really can't fix STUPID !. We never saw his AR at the range again after a reported incident !!. No personal knowledge of what occurred just a board bulletin . When You've been around reloading for #58 years Feb. like Farmers ; I've seen a thing or two and sometimes wish I HADN'T
I own a couple of Older SS Savages and out of the box trigger ,accuracy along with Money ; I defy anyone to equal it . Ugly Bolt and lackluster appearance granted but Accuracy and dependability it will hold it's own with any manufacturer .
That S&W model 29 ,that had the cylinder relocated ,didn't stop sales a fraction . Sir Issac stated it best ; For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction .
Just remember it's NOT always and overloaded cartridge ,which can ruin your day and under filled FLASH OVER can most certainly do damage .
A close Friend was fire forming cases for some old WWl French rifle and neglected to get enough Dacron on top of the powder ,so as the rifle became horizontal powder fell forward . Primer ignited overtop of powder rendering extractor and bolt face unusable . The action held but was worthless after that . If any of you have ever witnessed a Back Draft during a fire ,it's the same principle .
One of our less than stellar club members decided one evening he knew more than reloading manuals , was shooting cast bullets out of an AR using Blue Dot powder . Sometimes you really can't fix STUPID !. We never saw his AR at the range again after a reported incident !!. No personal knowledge of what occurred just a board bulletin . When You've been around reloading for #58 years Feb. like Farmers ; I've seen a thing or two and sometimes wish I HADN'T
Savages are good factory rifles intended for the average shooter to run factory loads in them. The accuracy level is fantastic for the price point. Not everyone has 10k to put into a Sniper System or needs the ability to hold zero dropped fifty feet from a Helicopter. If you need the best break out the cheek book
They will never compete with the best actions and custom built rifles on the planet no more than a Ford Mustang can compete with a Formula 1 Race Car on a race track
How ever they shoot damm well and are safe. They use good steel and production techniques to make sure they are that way
I have fun rifles from Savage I let students shoot all the time. Savage Ridge Warrior in 308 with Vortex PST Viper. Amazing how well it shoots and how smooth it is. Now being factory produced the next one may not shot as well or be as smooth but whole rig is under 2k retail
My best gun is a Custom Badger Action, Krieger barrel, McMillan Terry Cross Stock, Krieger barrel and Vortex 6-36 Razor gen 3 running AW Mags. It’s barrel is wearing out and I am about to send off to one of the great smiths on here to fit a new Bartlein barrel. Or in short my war gun is a 10k set up that hammers all day, cold or hot, clean or dirty
Both have there place
They will never compete with the best actions and custom built rifles on the planet no more than a Ford Mustang can compete with a Formula 1 Race Car on a race track
How ever they shoot damm well and are safe. They use good steel and production techniques to make sure they are that way
I have fun rifles from Savage I let students shoot all the time. Savage Ridge Warrior in 308 with Vortex PST Viper. Amazing how well it shoots and how smooth it is. Now being factory produced the next one may not shot as well or be as smooth but whole rig is under 2k retail
My best gun is a Custom Badger Action, Krieger barrel, McMillan Terry Cross Stock, Krieger barrel and Vortex 6-36 Razor gen 3 running AW Mags. It’s barrel is wearing out and I am about to send off to one of the great smiths on here to fit a new Bartlein barrel. Or in short my war gun is a 10k set up that hammers all day, cold or hot, clean or dirty
Both have there place
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The scrap heap, for the rifle that is the subject of this thread.
In answer to your earlier question this looks like the pressure only had to go to sides or backwards. Any chance he tried to put larger diameter bullet into the 6.5 bore? Kinda of a pipe bomb? I have seen similar with 300blk in a 5.56
I suppose that is possible. As I mentioned in the OP, he didn't have any idea what his load was - though I'm not sure how hard it would be to accidentally cram a 7mm or .30cal bullet into a 6.5 case.
That’s what I said but others said the die would crush the case. I’m gonna go to the shop right now and give it a try. Lots of retired cm cases and shoot very little 7mm any more so lots of material to give it a try.
Pretty Damn easy!
7mm 150 grain Sierra Matchking, seated in a Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor case.
Could have seated a .270 or 7mm in a 6.5mm Creedmoor case?
Pretty Damn easy!
7mm 150 grain Sierra Matchking, seated in a Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor case.
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So the ass hat blew up his rifle, didn't care enough to even find out why, threw the rifle in the garbage and all four pages of this thread are speculation on how this ass hat blew up his rifle ?
How about finding out who this asshole is, ban him from the range and post his picture at the other local ranges before he kills someone ?
Luckily for the other people at the range he was shooting a puny rifle cartridge.
SJC
How about finding out who this asshole is, ban him from the range and post his picture at the other local ranges before he kills someone ?
Luckily for the other people at the range he was shooting a puny rifle cartridge.
SJC
Haha You fell for this bullshit story ? That's some tough talk your keyboard spit out .
The pics look real.
Being it's a puny 6.5 CM, I really can't blame the owner for trying some reloading experimentation to make it a real cartridge.
He should've tested it with more caution and not in the public eye.
SJC
Being it's a puny 6.5 CM, I really can't blame the owner for trying some reloading experimentation to make it a real cartridge.
He should've tested it with more caution and not in the public eye.
SJC
If that’s what he did he wouldn’t be able to close the bolt because the round would be stuck in the neck area of his chamber. Thus, not able to fire. I know this because I once sold a 270 wby mag to a dumbass who went and bought 7mm wby mag rounds and later calls me up and asked me why he’s not able to close the bolt. Comes to find out he’d thought he bought a 7mm wby mag.
With factory crimped rounds, I totally agree. But with VLD bullets, loosely seated and with the bolt forced home it is possible. its been done. Keep in mind, this fellow does not appear to be the brightest bulb on the Christmas Tree. Of course, without the load data, the entire rifle and some kind of visible check on his loading habits/loading bench, who knows.
Here’s another scenario. Perhaps he cleaned his brass and some of the cleaning material, remained in the case. He loaded the regular powder without paying attention to the fact that the level of powder was greater than the other cases. Crushed the powder down, never gave it another thought. Then he set off a Creedmoor round with the internal capacity of a Dasher or maybe even a BR and the result was a massive overcharge.
Again, its all speculation and obviously the individual in question does not care or is just plain lacking in intellectual capability.
Proofing a firearm does not cause ‘damaging stress’!
One of the qualities of steel is that if you keep the stress below the ‘Yield Strength’, steel will dimensionally change and when the stress is removed, it still has the original dimensions.
Proof loads keep the stress below the ‘Yield Stress’.
To determine the ‘Yield Stress’,
Many here do shoot proof loads almost exclusively going by some of the loads posted.
Are you saying my 6.5CM load with a 147 at 2900fps from a 16” barrel isn’t safe? How dare you insult me like that
.No pressure signsAre you saying my 6.5CM load with a 147 at 2900fps from a 16” barrel isn’t safe? How dare you insult me like that
He has 2 different brands of brass in that box.
They also have 2 different colors of primers.
All the fired ones are Winchester with brass colored primers.
Winchester uses brass colored primers.
My bet is that the Winchester cases were factory ammo.
I bet that the silver colored primers were his hand loads.
I love my Savage rifles.
Some people lose their minds when they see a Tangent Theta or a Schmidt & Bender on a Savage.
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I agree, I noticed it later after zooming in.He has 2 different brands of brass in that box.
They also have 2 different colors of primers.
All the fired ones are Winchester with brass colored primers.
Winchester uses brass colored primers.
My bet is that the Winchester cases were factory ammo.
I bet that the silver colored primers were his hand loads.
I love my Savage rifles.
Some people lose their minds when they see a Tangent Theta or a Schmidt & Bender on a Savage.
“f proof loads didn’t cause “cumulative damage,” you could feed your firearm a steady diet of proof loads without worry. Do this, however, and your gun will eventually fail.”
“The SAAMI pressure testing protocol uses test barrels that have a hole located in the chamber at a location specific to the cartridge. “
How many test loads do you think SAAMI fires before changing a barrel?
-Richard
“The SAAMI pressure testing protocol uses test barrels that have a hole located in the chamber at a location specific to the cartridge. “
How many test loads do you think SAAMI fires before changing a barrel?
-Richard
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You gave pretty much no information and i can definitively disregard any and all info you provided as total rubbish.
I have a couple of Kelbly actions that i can say without hesitation what they are made of and what they are rated for but dont seem to notice any such claimes from you about your preffered savage actions and really ront give two shits otherwise.
I like the two savage rifles i still own but no amount of polishing a turd makes it a diamond.
Start with something better and you end with something better.
My personnel experiance is if you srart with something better there isnt much room for imptovement with minimal gain if you had just started with a quality product to begin with.
I’ve been handloading for more years than I care to remember and I’ve never had anything like that occur. My guess is that he got greedy and exceeded the max charge (significantly) or he mistakenly double charged a round. The bench is the last place that you want distractions, especially when dropping powder. Someone posted a comment about Savage actions to which I would argue that while a Savage rifle will not win a beauty contest, their rifles are very strong and damn accurate out of the box.
Im glad the guy didn’t get more seriously injured and I suggest never using his handloads!
Im glad the guy didn’t get more seriously injured and I suggest never using his handloads!
That pistol didn't blow up at an indoor range around Navarre, did it?Saw a peeled Magnum once don't recall the caliber ,it was back when SS actions barrels were just coming around . It looked as if someone had literally peeled the barrel away from the action in #3 strips .
I personally was on the 27 yd. trap line one evening ,when shrapnel flew from #3 stations away . Shooter next door station was killed head trauma .
Russian made O/U and Not cheap . I knew both shooter and victim . Factory loads NOT reload on that incident local PD held everybody for hours while investigation proceeded .
Karma fate apropos call it what you will , two months later same shooter different range during a league shoot was killed on the 16 yd. line . Seems another shooter's homemade load went boom and killed George . Illegal loads and obviously overloaded were the culprit .
I was eating at a local restaurant awaiting MY division's shoot off ,when a mutual friend came in and told us what went down and all was canceled of course . Sad night had known George for 30 + years
This wasn't mine but saw one similar ,some folks just don't understand PRESSURE in a confined space !.
I learned early ,went into My old Bosses garage to get some tools for work early one AM and met a Bobcat !!. Not the mechanical type either
almost looks like a bullet was down the bore from a previous day from real light load, bang zoom pop goes the dyno mite
27 yard line? Ok, he was shooting factory loads but did he reload at all? Particularly for handicap yardage?Saw a peeled Magnum once don't recall the caliber ,it was back when SS actions barrels were just coming around . It looked as if someone had literally peeled the barrel away from the action in #3 strips .
I personally was on the 27 yd. trap line one evening ,when shrapnel flew from #3 stations away . Shooter next door station was killed head trauma .
Russian made O/U and Not cheap . I knew both shooter and victim . Factory loads NOT reload on that incident local PD held everybody for hours while investigation proceeded .
Karma fate apropos call it what you will , two months later same shooter different range during a league shoot was killed on the 16 yd. line . Seems another shooter's homemade load went boom and killed George . Illegal loads and obviously overloaded were the culprit .
I was eating at a local restaurant awaiting MY division's shoot off ,when a mutual friend came in and told us what went down and all was canceled of course . Sad night had known George for 30 + years
This wasn't mine but saw one similar ,some folks just don't understand PRESSURE in a confined space !.
I learned early ,went into My old Bosses garage to get some tools for work early one AM and met a Bobcat !!. Not the mechanical type either
I ask because there was (still may be) regular reports on Trapshooters.com about K-80 receivers giving way. At the same time, I had NEVER heard of such a thing happening in skeet.
It is my supposition only that cumulative metal fatigue from regularly shooting mortar rounds made for the 27 yard line is the cause of such a failure and they reason why its not seen in skeet (where a thousands and thousands of K-80s are used) is that there is no benefit in that sport to overloading shells.
I often wonder, when we see firearm failures in shotguns or rifles, what is the history of that gun.
Sorry about your friend, George. Shame.
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