How durable and tough are Schmidt and bender scopes? Nightforce is legendary when it comes to taking abuse, But I’m wondering how does Schmidt compare? Are Schmidt’s tough? How do they compare in durability and toughness compared to other top scope brands?
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
Rifle Scopes Schmidt and bender durability and toughness, how durable are they? how does it compare to NF and every other brand?
- Thread starter sethwilliamd
- Start date
S&B are notorious for being delicate optics, thats why you will never find them on any military rifles.
NF is the way to go for toughness.
Theres tests been done where the NF was frozen to 0 degrees Kelvin and still held up to PRS abuse.
NF is the way to go for toughness.
Theres tests been done where the NF was frozen to 0 degrees Kelvin and still held up to PRS abuse.
The Schmidt & Bender PM II 3-12X was chosen by the United States Marine Corps to be their sniper rifle optical sight of choice 13 years ago and it's still serving.
Does that answer your question?
Free grammar lesson: plurals do not have apostrophes.
Last edited:
Both brands have a long history with military service.
Nothing on this planet has ever achieved 0 Kelvin (-459 degrees F). If NF had actually managed to achieve this physically impossible feat they'd be the most valuable company on earth selling super conductors based electronic systems, not rifle scopes.
lmao that’s was awesome
Attachments
It helps for sure , thank you. I’m also hoping to get some real world opinions from those that have used and owned both
Attachments
*bias notice* I have S&B PM2 5-25 MTC. Whilst it has great glass, I'd never get another. I have dark dots on my glass from internal grease splatter. S&B want me to return it to Germany to be repaired at my cost (and significant time being in Australia). I know distance isn't S&B's fault, but they didn't really show any care or concern that the $4500 AUD scope had this issue within a week of purchase. If it was me, I'd go Nightforce or Vortex over S&B.
You asked about toughness. Nothing else needs to be said.
I don't know where you've been if you don't know how tough Schmidt Bender scopes really are.
I have the same in my S&B. I love the scope otherwise, but my next high end scope will be a TT.
don’t you just love how this form is notorious for spreading bad information. Why’d he delete his post lmao
Hey thanks again for you input. Again, I’m hoping for input from some that has actually used both. (You said “nothing else needs to be said”) That is what needs to be said, their opinion.
As for where I’ve been, clearly not shooting a NF or a Schmidt, which is why I’m asking the question here.
Attachments
Last edited:
It is literally the second post in the thread. How could you possibly miss it and think it has been deleted?
What "bad information" is this forum notorious for spreading?
I have owned and shot both. They are both tough scopes but my opinion only the Schmidt feels better built and I was able to see targets better at longer distances. Once again this is subjective. The NF is also a great scope and I did not have any issues with it either. Determine your use and see what features work for you. A good example are the turrets do you want locking or not do you want the turrets to have a feel when you hit every mil? Also what are the reticle options that you prefer. I am by no means a professional shooter but have had sometime behind each scope. In the end you can’t go wrong with either. Good luck.
whoops. I went cross eyed and missed it.
And to answer your question, pretty much anything to do with science. Sorry I don’t log individuals making bad science post but maybe I should.
I have a NXS 3-15 and a S&B 3-12. Both are tough but the S&B feels stouter...I have nothing scientific to base this off of. The S&B has tighter turrets and heavy, distinct clicks and super distinct MTC clicks. The NF has very crisp and audible clicks as well but not as heavy as the S&B. Zero stops on both are a good hard stop. S&B image looks warmer and shows browns better, NF looks colder and shows the blues in images better...both are still great images.
If I had to pick one it would be the S&B but again...I have nothing against the NF and wouldnt blink if NF was the only option.
Pick the one that has the reticle you want and go from there.
EDIT: noticed you said "every other brand" Id hands down take either over a vortex, bushnell, burris, etc. I havent tried a TT but the Premier I owned was the NF and S&B equal so I'm sure its up there also. I own a vortex razor g2 and am looking to replace it with another S&B or NF. The Razor is a good optic but its not an S&B or NF. Their warranty is great, but I prefer one I dont have to use.
If I had to pick one it would be the S&B but again...I have nothing against the NF and wouldnt blink if NF was the only option.
Pick the one that has the reticle you want and go from there.
EDIT: noticed you said "every other brand" Id hands down take either over a vortex, bushnell, burris, etc. I havent tried a TT but the Premier I owned was the NF and S&B equal so I'm sure its up there also. I own a vortex razor g2 and am looking to replace it with another S&B or NF. The Razor is a good optic but its not an S&B or NF. Their warranty is great, but I prefer one I dont have to use.
To help this...NF has been used on the MK13 series for Navy/Marines/ETC. for quite a few years as well...NXS and now the ATACR 5-25 on the latest Mod7.
Thank you for the reply, I’m putting the scope on a custom AR10/lr308. It’s mostly a hunting gun, so I’d like sfp As for me most ffp Are to hard to see in the timber on low magnification. I’d also like to get into competitive shooting at some point as well. I wanted low end for fast acquisition in hunting situations and higher end magnification for shooting distance. So I was looking at the s&b 3-20 ultra short and the nx8 2.5-20 which I was hoping at some point would have a sfp option. It hasn’t , I looked at Zeiss v8 2.8-20 and the swaro 3-24 z8i. Neither really fit the bill, either I didn’t like one or the other didn’t have enough adjustment. I’m pretty sure I’m going with the Schmidt as it has everything I want, but the warranty (or lack there of) Gave me pause just a bit, and NF customer service is amazing so I figure I’d ask people with more knowledge than me. Thank you for the reply it is exactly what I was looking for and it really helps.
Now you have actually provided the scopes to compare. Neither one of those two scopes has enough time in service to make a meaningful guess regarding durability. Total crap shoot on both, other than reputation of company. Both are bad representations of the overall quality of the company behind them. Lose the need for 20x and get an older 3-12 SB. A p3 reticle will work fine on low power...and have zero resale so you can get a used scope very cheap. Most tested optic in existence and proper for your application.
Last edited:
Wow cool, now go back and read post 5 and 6.
Where do they talk about Snipershide science discussions?
Last edited:
I’ve had both, got rid of the ATACR and I prefer my PMII. I have smashed it into things, it has fallen over while leaned up against things and landed on the scope, banged into rocks and barricades, It has been covered in gritty mud and had the turrets turned while filthy, strapped tight to packs and taken countless trips to the deck when a ruck is done and the pack is dropped, you name it. Still holds zero and tracks perfectly. I’m not careless with my rifles, but I don’t pamper them. They are tools and I expect them to handle heavy use without having to waste time worrying about being delicate to them.
And S&B as well as TT has been used by the Marines for just as long. This is a dumb thread, even call of duty weebs know the answer to this.
The zero Kelvin bit was hillarious.
All riflescope companies have service departments that are quite busy.
Both Nightforce and S&B make reliable scopes as do most other competing brands: Tangent Theta, March, Minox, Kahles, etc.
The fact that a particular scope was adopted by the military usually does not have a ton to do with toughness of the design, perceived and otherwise.
Many scope companies use various stunts to show off how ell built their scopes are, but those are mostly good for publicity. They do not really demonstrate anything useful.
I have some insight into how different companies do their lifecycle testing and they are all quite diligent about testing stuff. Tangent Theta probably does the crazyest amount of lifecycle testing overall (something about their scopes functioning in really cold Arctic conditions among other things), but I do not know what all companies do.
I recall a few years back the guys at Kelbly's took a couple of March scopes, mounted them backwards on a 50 cal and fired a few shots. Nothing broke, which I thought was impressive.
ILya
All riflescope companies have service departments that are quite busy.
Both Nightforce and S&B make reliable scopes as do most other competing brands: Tangent Theta, March, Minox, Kahles, etc.
The fact that a particular scope was adopted by the military usually does not have a ton to do with toughness of the design, perceived and otherwise.
Many scope companies use various stunts to show off how ell built their scopes are, but those are mostly good for publicity. They do not really demonstrate anything useful.
I have some insight into how different companies do their lifecycle testing and they are all quite diligent about testing stuff. Tangent Theta probably does the crazyest amount of lifecycle testing overall (something about their scopes functioning in really cold Arctic conditions among other things), but I do not know what all companies do.
I recall a few years back the guys at Kelbly's took a couple of March scopes, mounted them backwards on a 50 cal and fired a few shots. Nothing broke, which I thought was impressive.
ILya
S&B has Schott glass and 7075 aluminum tubes. NF has Japanese glass and 6061 aluminum. Everyone knows Schott glass and 7075 aluminum is tougher. Ever see that pic of a NF scope with a bullet hole in it? Well that’s nothing to be proud of.
Not that it means much, but by far the most popular optic in my collection. It’s German, just buy it!
I know right. S&B is obviously a load of Nazi propaganda. We can’t let them rise again.
They are both robust with differences that come down to preference. What they both lack though is a custom BDC likes the Quigley Fords.
I had a conversation with Andrew Weber (pretty sure) of TT where he mentioned cycling their adjustments through 10k revolutions. Not sure if that was the full elevation travel or actual revs, but it shows their dedication. It's nice to see companies who are that committed to quality.
In general, I hope all of these top-tier companies put out well-built, thoroughly QC'd products. I've put all my eggs in the NF basket, and haven't been disappointed.
It was very close there. I was thinking no way this is serious? I had to read it a few times and make a judgement call.
@koshkin Isn’t S&B one of the few companies not using Schott glass? I was under the impression that S&B still owned and operated Hungarian Optical Works for their own internal glass manufacturing versus procuring from Schott AG.
Last edited:
Hi,
So are you voting on this thread was started for "serious" inquiries?
It isn't is it???
Sincerely,
Theis
They do own the facility in Hungary. I do not know whether they do their own glass melts or grind and polish lenses there. I do know they assemble some stuff there. I'd be surprised if they made raw glass there, but anything is possible. Generally, raw glass production is different skill set that lens making.
ILya
Hi,
So now I am confused......
Is the OP "Looking" to purchase or "Looking" for confirmation of his purchase???
Sincerely,
Theis
So now I am confused......
Is the OP "Looking" to purchase or "Looking" for confirmation of his purchase???
Sincerely,
Theis
Ended up with a Schmidt 3-20 ultra short in sfp . Best combo of reliable, glass, tough, feature, tracking etc. the swaro has the best glass imo but only had 47 moa of adjustment. the Zeiss glass to me was yellow, and I didn’t like the 36mm tube, or the reticle. as well the image imo degraded when zoomed. The nf I don’t think was a bad scope, decent glass for the money, decent turrets for the money. however without a sfp option the reticle was far too small. (which is why Imo I think many people feel they have a eyebox problem all the way through the power range and not just at high power, and that would explain why the problem doesn’t impact the 4-32 nf nearly as bad. but that is just supposition I’m not an glass engineer) Nf had the best warranty but I’ve been assured Schmidt takes a beating and they take care of customers even with the 30 year warranty which I was told bey europtic was only 30 years because German law doesn’t allow longer ?. Either way they are built like tanks so I’m not too worried. I’m putting it on NF 20 moa 194a ultralight mount
I have utilized most major and some not so major scope brands since the 1960’s.
I presently utilize only two brands of scopes. S&B and NF. Likely have 25 or more of them but only a few see hard use.
5-20 S&B and NF 2.5-10x24.
I use them daily, year around. None have gone back for repairs in 5-20 years of use.
You should find the features you need and pick that scope. Unless you have very poor luck durability should not be a concern with either make.
I presently utilize only two brands of scopes. S&B and NF. Likely have 25 or more of them but only a few see hard use.
5-20 S&B and NF 2.5-10x24.
I use them daily, year around. None have gone back for repairs in 5-20 years of use.
You should find the features you need and pick that scope. Unless you have very poor luck durability should not be a concern with either make.
3-20 s&b ultra short Is on order, and not yet recieved, yes to both? I’m willing to cancel Or change orders if I hear of major problems, but if the above comments are an indicator that likely isn’t going to happen. Sounds like I ordered a tough reliable scope.
Who's been around long enough to remember this guy dragging his S&B down the road? lol The story goes if you put your head to the gravel you can still hear the tink tink of aluminum skipping across the rocks.
The versions of scopes the Military recives may be tougher but are typically not serviceable very easy since many parts internally are not made to be replaced.
The 3-12 S&B's that went to the military were constructed the same as any other 3-12 S&B's. NF scopes on the other hand were constructed differently with a different adhesive that precluded being able to take them apart.
