Rifle Scopes Schmidt & Bender "implosion"?

[phillip61]

You keep saying the group...

On what Rifle is the 10 SF group using this scope ?

Cause they have about 4 rifles each if they want, and I have trained SF guys... never saw IOR.

Are you talking that 1 GUY in 10 SF or the WHOLE group ... cause they get their rifles from a place that is not outfitting them with IORs..

They use Leupold, might have a Crane NF, and certainly a few Horus... but across the board IOR, I am not buying it.

They have M24s, XM2010s, M110s, SCARs, M16s, what rifle specifically. For all you know that one rifle can sit unused for the whole deployment

Heres a quote (from your forum).

I'm about to head back to my unit after some wonderful weeks at home and in leaving here for a while again I'll repeat one thing that I've stated in another thread; SOCEUR was turned onto IOR scopes and other optic devices by the USMC Precision Weapons Section after extensive testing that they do every year on optics new and old that are in the system or being considered.
We have now been using some IOR equipment on weapon systems (two year point) and have been very pleased with them. Some replaced NF and S&Bs that were ok but the specific IORs had some better attributes for our needs and we have not gone back on any of them.

It says in case your prejudice is blinding you they got turned onto them by the USMC precision Weapons Section after extensive testing. Then it says "WE" have been testing, not "I" as in the "one guy" but "we" as in unit. Then he says they have been testing them for two years and are very pleased.

but I'm sure that you're not buying that either.

 

[dms416]

Heres a quote (from your forum).

I'm about to head back to my unit after some wonderful weeks at home and in leaving here for a while again I'll repeat one thing that I've stated in another thread; SOCEUR was turned onto IOR scopes and other optic devices by the USMC Precision Weapons Section after extensive testing that they do every year on optics new and old that are in the system or being considered.
We have now been using some IOR equipment on weapon systems (two year point) and have been very pleased with them. Some replaced NF and S&Bs that were ok but the specific IORs had some better attributes for our needs and we have not gone back on any of them.

It says in case your prejudice is blinding you they got turned onto them by the USMC precision Weapons Section after extensive testing. Then it says "WE" have been testing, not "I" as in the "one guy" but "we" as in unit. Then he says they have been testing them for two years and are very pleased.

but I'm sure that you're not buying that either.

Link to the quote?

 

[Lowlight]

I have no idea what that means or what the context is... because the USMC Is not using them. Period.

Tested for what, what happened to this test, what were the results ?

I hate to break it too you, we had a class of SEALs one time, one of them was a SEAL Sniper Instructor prior, he told us the Ocular adjustment on the NF was for setting your Eye Relief...

The quote is completely out of context and says they are testing them, "two years worth" ??? That "we" is meaningless, it does not say anything about the GROUP, or who "We" are.

Clearly they are not using them, so the test must have failed. They clearly voted to use the S&B as that is the USMC optic, so the IOR must have failed at some point.

It's too vague, and I don't care what you think, it's 1 Guy.

Define, "Better Attributes"... please

 

[phillip61]

SF Rifles
I know what rifles they have and where they come from, including what optics they use.

We talk all 3 Ranger Battalions, they used

Leupold, Nightforce, USO, S&B, Horus, no IORs.

Another quote from your site.

The more you use that scope the more you will love it. My unit has 4 of them on larger caliber rifles, they replaced the S&B 5-25x56 PM II/LP we had been using and the 4-28x50 40mm RECONs have astounded us for 2 years now.

It appears you didn't talk to or take pictures of this units rifles. They have four IOR's, They replaced the S&B's they had with them, They have been astounded for two years.

 

[Lowlight]

Most be the 4 guys without a clue as Industry wide the S&B 5-25x is considered the Gold Standard for a tactical scope,

4 Guys, out of how many... 10,000 Special Operations guys, you point to 4.

I know the Rangers had more than 4 USO Scopes.

I know there were more than 4 Chinese Hakko Scopes out there being used by the Military

 

[phillip61]

"I have no idea what that means" ..you could have just stopped there.


but you continued with "and I don't care what you think",.......obviously you do, you have spent all night trying to prove your point?

 

[Lowlight]

Here is the deal,

Take your IOR, and get a video camera, do this with your scope...

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/OJOKXgbbh-M?list=UUwHsnyWOaQNtrGjJKsTgegg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Let's see what this "Group" looks like... then take a vertical board and put at least 12 Mils of dots on it, and go from 0 to 12 mils with a shot on a dot every mil up.

Show us how well your IOR tracks and works... cause honestly we can careless if it has pretty glass.

Until you demonstrate the scope actually works as it should, I think you should refrain from posting in defense of them.

Put the adjustments on the line and demonstrate it for us.

 

[phillip61]

Most be the 4 guys without a clue

That is awesome, when all else fails you resort to "putting down" our servicemen, our brothers, that are away from their families half way around the world protecting you, and when one of them dares to come on your site this is the thanks he gets.

I spent 23 years in the service and I got to say "That hurts man". I thought this was just a friendly argument, but now it's gone to far. I'm out.

 

[Lowlight]

If you read my post above, you would have seen my note about the SEAL sniper instructor.

Being in the military doesn't make you an expert on optics.

I personally don't care if you are offended...

On a side note, what do you think is the latest and greatest IOR, what is the best one, if you had an extra stack of money and wanted a new scope today from them, any one, what would it be.

 

[poison123]

That is awesome, when all else fails you resort to "putting down" our servicemen, our brothers, that are away from their families half way around the world protecting you, and when one of them dares to come on your site this is the thanks he gets.

I spent 23 years in the service and I got to say "That hurts man". I thought this was just a friendly argument, but now it's gone to far. I'm out.

Really.....your going to pull that card? Why don't you throw the fucking race card next.

 

[Lowlight]

It only works if you take it out of context, but ... more power to him. LOL

Cut off the most important part of the sentence and you can make anything sound offensive

 

[matt2143]

The quote is here http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...copes/227980-ior-recon-4-28x50-40mm-tube.html

 

[Graham]

To quote him in a post just a few weeks ago he said his unit was "Astonished" by the scope

Was the 10th astonished at how well, after the scope comes apart and the glass blows out, the IOR tubes work in a pinch as ice screws?

 

[matt2143]

This is a post of Phillip's inspiration (MSG Janoski) 11/21/13 (who apparently has had hands on the RECON's for two years)

"Not any more...I was able to look at two in Stuttgart, one was a 2.5-10 and the other was a 6 to some high mag. Like every one, I've known about IOR for several years and was interested in the newer 3.5-18 50. From phillip's view and the two "acquaintances" from Ft. Campbell and other research in the past several days plus talking with several merchants that carry them I decided to go ahead and get one."

LINK: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...opes/221182-home-leave-looking-ior-scope.html

He also says two guys in 5th group are using them.....

The way his posts read it would seem he was looking for info about the IOR scopes, specifically the 3.5-18x50 and then a few weeks after getting his own he talks about how his team has one on a 338 and one on a 50. He also claims to have been running a March scope.

I have given advice to others to not engage in 'educating those who are not open to learning' so I need to start taking my own advice and stop posting in this one. I think those who are looking for the truth and have an open mind will find what is important here to hopefully give them some good info on what could help them avoid undue pain and suffering. I also hope MSG Janoski is the real deal and not just blowing smoke. IOR has some great glass and nice features but from MY experience have had some very tough times bringing everything together. I honestly hope IOR has figured out a winning combination and have better QC these days, I can say I have found better things to spend my money and time on.

 

[phillip61]

If you read my post above, you would have seen my note about the SEAL sniper instructor.

Being in the military doesn't make you an expert on optics.

I personally don't care if you are offended...

On a side note, what do you think is the latest and greatest IOR, what is the best one, if you had an extra stack of money and wanted a new scope today from them, any one, what would it be.

Frank you don't want to hear this, but if I had an extra stack of money to buy a new scope I think I would buy a Night Force ATACR. Why, I already have an IOR, I love my IOR, but I love my 308 also, but my next rifle will not be another 308. I'm thinking about building a 6.5 Creedmoor, If fact I'm going by my smiths shop tomorrow after work to order the stock and barrel. A McMillian A5 stock and a Douglas Barrel. I have no doubt you think those are terrible choices. But when I get the rifle I think the ATACR would work well on it. Thats what I would do.

I just think it would be a tad boring to have a safe full of rifles with the same scope on them. Ya'll think I'm an IOR fanboy. I'm not, I'm pro choice. I'm all for experiencing all you can. I like to shoot, after two different scopes I tried an IOR 3.5-18X50 SFP and I like it, at this point I'm sorry I like it, I wish I didn't like it, I wish the damn thing would break so I can post on this site just how right you guys are, and just how stupid I am. But for some reason the scope won't break. But never the less in about six months when I get my 6.5 I will probably put my IOR on it untill I can save some money for a 2nd scope. When the day arrives for me to order that scope I think it may be an ATACR. It may not be, but thats what I'm thinking about anyway.

I'm sorry you guys hate the IOR's so much. I will try not to post pictures of my shoot groups any more, If I do, I will not mention what kind of scope I use as to not offend anyone. I never bad mouth anyones choices over what scope/reticle combo they choose to use. So I guess I don't understand why people would bad mouth my or other IOR users choices. But it clearly offends ya'll to the point that ya'll can't help but break out the flame throwers at the mere mention of one. I personally don't understand it, but maybe it's not for me to understand. Regardless of your point of view, you guys have my respect. I think I'm going to go enjoy a cold beer then take my ass to bed. Until next time.

 

[Lowlight]

I want an IOR recommendation, I am gonna get one to test...

I want the best one they make.

 

[dms416]

Frank you don't want to hear this, but if I had an extra stack of money to buy a new scope I think I would buy a Night Force ATACR. Why, I already have an IOR, I love my IOR, but I love my 308 also, but my next rifle will not be another 308. I'm thinking about building a 6.5 Creedmoor, If fact I'm going by my smiths shop tomorrow after work to order the stock and barrel. A McMillian A5 stock and a Douglas Barrel. I have no doubt you think those are terrible choices. But when I get the rifle I think the ATACR would work well on it. Thats what I would do.

I just think it would be a tad boring to have a safe full of rifles with the same scope on them. Ya'll think I'm an IOR fanboy. I'm not, I'm pro choice. I'm all for experiencing all you can. I like to shoot, after two different scopes I tried an IOR 3.5-18X50 SFP and I like it, at this point I'm sorry I like it, I wish I didn't like it, I wish the damn thing would break so I can post on this site just how right you guys are, and just how stupid I am. But for some reason the scope won't break. But never the less in about six months when I get my 6.5 I will probably put my IOR on it untill I can save some money for a 2nd scope. When the day arrives for me to order that scope I think it may be an ATACR. It may not be, but thats what I'm thinking about anyway.

I'm sorry you guys hate the IOR's so much. I will try not to post pictures of my shoot groups any more, If I do, I will not mention what kind of scope I use as to not offend anyone. I never bad mouth anyones choices over what scope/reticle combo they choose to use. So I guess I don't understand why people would bad mouth my or other IOR users choices. But it clearly offends ya'll to the point that ya'll can't help but break out the flame throwers at the mere mention of one. I personally don't understand it, but maybe it's not for me to understand. Regardless of your point of view, you guys have my respect. I think I'm going to go enjoy a cold beer then take my ass to bed. Until next time.

Hey, that's super, but maybe you can help me....

What the FUCK does your IOR fanboydom have to do with Schmidt & Bender?

 

[dms416]

I want an IOR recommendation, I am gonna get one to test...

I want the best one they make.

Frank, can you put it on the super-cheap Remy switch-barrel when it goes head to head against an AI?

 

[Lowlight]

Frank, can you put it on the super-cheap Remy switch-barrel when it goes head to head against an AI?

only if it gets built and Masked's gunsmith waives the labor cost. I need it assembled for free to come in under $4k.

 

[phillip61]

Hey, that's super, but maybe you can help me....

What the FUCK does your IOR fanboydom have to do with Schmidt & Bender?

This thing got sidetracked to an IOR Flame Thrower debacle at post 179 & 182, from there it got completely out'a control. I didn't shop up to throw gas on this thing till later on.

 

[phillip61]

I want an IOR recommendation, I am gonna get one to test...

I want the best one they make.

Dude, you can use mine. But if you fuck it up beyond recognition then at some point someone has to aggree ti make ir right. andl donate some monies get the scope fixed.
.

 

[Lowlight]

I know it will fuck up, so keep yours I will get my own.

 

[dms416]

This thing got sidetracked to an IOR Flame Thrower debacle at post 179 & 182, from there it got completely out'a control. I didn't shop up to throw gas on this thing till later on.

Believe me I'm aware...and enough is enough. If I wanted to watch you dig, I would buy you a shovel.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Frank, I've seen the guys from that unit running IOR's. They upgraded from BSA's and are loving them. They play two games of airsoft each weekend and they haven't failed yet.

 

[dms416]

Frank, I've seen the guys from that unit running IOR's. They upgraded from BSA's and are loving them. They play two games of airsoft each weekend and they haven't failed yet.

Just sayin...

 

[phillip61]

I know it will fuck up, so keep yours I will get my own.

I would reely like ya to use mine, That way while your tearing up the scope maybe we could bond or somethin'.. Drink a few beers, argue a little bit, drink a few more beers. Sounds fun. What ya say?

 

[phillip61]

I know it will fuck up, so keep yours I will get my own.

You've got a garage floor full of them, tear up mine then give me my pic from anything off your garage floor.

 

[Km22]

Which IOR is the best?

 

[Midwestside]

Which IOR is the best?

Whichever one Gunsmoke used on their sniper rifle episode of American Guns...that has to be thee bestest one.

 

[Magnumdood]

Happy days are here again.

 

[Notso]

I'm betting the S&B dealers are very happy this thread turned into an IOR hatefest.

 

[orkan]

"military uses this... military uses that." "This special forces guy has 1 on his rifle and two on his nuts."

...gives me a fucking rash. I really do not care which special forces guy/team/unit/platoon/company uses what. Anyone that's been in the military knows that military choices don't often track with what is BEST. Just means that is what was issued/expedient/affordable.

So what matters? The fact that I've got a 3-18 I took in on trade to help a guy out, and the highest offer I can get on it is $1100. If it's so awesome, you IOR lovers should have no problem coughing up $1500 for it right now right? Scope is a mint condition IOR, and is a piece of shit next to a vortex viper PST.

Know what else matters? I've shown this scope to about TWENTY different people. Most pretty savvy. Every single one of them said it felt like a pile of crap. One gentleman reported that he "would rather have 40 people vomit INSIDE his mouth" than use that scope. When I handed him a $200 Hawke Sport Optic junker, he said it would be a toss-up. Most reported they would much prefer a leupold mk4 to the IOR. I hate me some mk4, but I would agree with them.

Which IOR is best? Whichever one someone else is using. Just as long as you're not the unfortunate one with IOR on top your rifle... it's a good day.

 

[VJJPunisher]

you all are a bunch of cryin dipshits talkin out yer cock sucks, buy a NCStar and be done, FUCK

 

[JeffLebowski]

That is awesome, when all else fails you resort to "putting down" our servicemen, our brothers, that are away from their families half way around the world protecting you, and when one of them dares to come on your site this is the thanks he gets.

I spent 23 years in the service and I got to say "That hurts man". I thought this was just a friendly argument, but now it's gone to far. I'm out.

Wow. As a veteran, I'd like to distance myself from whining like this.

 

[Notso]

Wow. As a veteran, I'd like to distance myself from whining like this.

Same. Remember, the military buys from the lowest bidder.

 

[Olive]

This Forum looks like it's getting out of control. It seems almost every thread these days has a mean streak to it. That's too bad.

 

[TallShot]

I came here to read about some alleged "implosion"; but now, I'm eagerly awaiting LL's review of an IOR lol.

 

[peaceatwar]

Gone through 7 scopes in the last 2 years. Guess where I wound up? 5-25 PM II with P4F.

Vortex 2.5-10 PST FFP MOA
NF 5.5-22 - NP-R1
NF 2.5-10 - NP-R1
NF 3.5-15 - U.S Army F1
NF 3.5-15 - MLR 2.0 F1
Steiner 4-16 - G2MD
S&B 5-25 - P4F

As a lefty I found out first hand how much I hate that illumination knob on the 5-25. At the MDSS finals last year I was late getting started on the movers stage and I slammed my trigger finger good and hard between the bolt and the knob. Hurt so bad. I still wouldn't change scopes. Reticles, maybe. Love the fine center crosshairs of the P4F. I miss the numerical labeling of the MLR 2.0. It made it so easy for holdovers, but .05 mil line thickness left something to be desired.

You can go on your own glass/turrets/features quest but I can tell you that once you experience a S&B you will see why its the gold standard.

I'm still itching to try out a BEAST. I'm not holding my breath though, maybe in 2015.

As for the special forces super operator coach commando IOR argument. I still haven't seen anyone give LowLight a recommendation on which IOR to buy and test. Please tell us the exact model.

 

[KYS]

Another quote from your site.

The more you use that scope the more you will love it. My unit has 4 of them on larger caliber rifles, they replaced the S&B 5-25x56 PM II/LP we had been using and the 4-28x50 40mm RECONs have astounded us for 2 years now.

It appears you didn't talk to or take pictures of this units rifles. They have four IOR's, They replaced the S&B's they had with them, They have been astounded for two years.

You just don't get it, do you? Because 2 or 3 guys tried an IOR scope out doesn't mean the military or for the more specific matter any one branch endorses an IOR scope. Can you provide evidence that these alleged scopes are still in use during a military operation? IOR has a TERRIBLE track record. I have owned 2 in the past and a MK12 MOD1 killed both of them. I returned them for money and bought a NF NXS. That gun now has over 6k rounds on it with no issues from the optics.

I have seen an IOR take a dump on a casual shooting range, guy was "box testing" his scope and the elevation turret failed. It would click but no adjustments were happening.

Do you honestly expect Frank to have pictures of every SF group that walks the earth? He would be out there chasing them down still for pictures!

 

[19Scout77]

This thing got sidetracked to an IOR Flame Thrower debacle at post 179 & 182, from there it got completely out'a control. I didn't shop up to throw gas on this thing till later on.

Phil... back away from the goat!! Obviously it is syphilitic and has rotted your brain.

 

[Magnumdood]

"military uses this... Military uses that." "this special forces guy has 1 on his rifle and two on his nuts."...//...which ior is best? Whichever one someone else is using. Just as long as you're not the unfortunate one with ior on top your rifle... It's a good day.

lol...ouch!

 

[hlee]

Just one guy's opinion, found on this site...

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-rifle-scopes/221654-scope-gone-bad.html

 

[phillip61]

Phil... back away from the goat!! Obviously it is syphilitic and has rotted your brain.

I think I'll stay with the goat!!!

No one understands that this argument is not about scopes, it's about opinions. Some folks around here feel that their opinion is the only one that matters. It doesn't matter that they don't even own said scope anymore. It's more about back when they did had one they formed an opinion about it and by god that opinion ain't changin' today. They don't understand I don't won't them to change their opinions, I'm just showing them that there are other opinions out there that differ from theirs. And that is when the trouble starts. For some reason they take it personally that my opinion and others isn't the same as theirs.

I can only assume that they think I am trying to prove them wrong or something when nothing could be farther from the truth. They are right. They are 100% right. But so am I, and so is everyone else because opinions can't be wrong. To you the woman down the road is ugly, to me shes pretty. Neither one of us is wrong. More people may side with you thinking shes ugly, only six people side with me thinking she pretty. No one on either side is wrong. It is simply an opinion. It matters not what stats or data we base our opinions on. Because at the end of the day they are still just our opinions. What is so hard about that?

Frank can test all the scopes he wants to. When he is done he will form an opinion. The soldier in Afghanistan says his team has been testing the scopes for two years and they have an opinion about the scopes. Frank and the SF team will probably have different opinions, but neither will be wrong. Opinions can vary, but they can't be wrong. And that my friend is a hard pill for some to swallow.

 

[KYS]

I think I'll stay with the goat!!!

No one understands that this argument is not about scopes, it's about opinions. Some folks around here feel that their opinion is the only one that matters. It doesn't matter that they don't even own said scope anymore. It's more about back when they did had one they formed an opinion about it and by god that opinion ain't changin' today. They don't understand I don't won't them to change their opinions, I'm just showing them that there are other opinions out there that differ from theirs. And that is when the trouble starts. For some reason they take it personally that my opinion and others isn't the same as theirs.

I can only assume that they think I am trying to prove them wrong or something when nothing could be farther from the truth. They are right. They are 100% right. But so am I, and so is everyone else because opinions can't be wrong. To you the woman down the road is ugly, to me shes pretty. Neither one of us is wrong. More people may side with you thinking shes ugly, only six people side with me thinking she pretty. No one on either side is wrong. It is simply an opinion. It matters not what stats or data we base our opinions on. Because at the end of the day they are still just our opinions. What is so hard about that?

Frank can test all the scopes he wants to. When he is done he will form an opinion. The soldier in Afghanistan says his team has been testing the scopes for two years and they have an opinion about the scopes. Frank and the SF team will probably have different opinions, but neither will be wrong. Opinions can vary, but they can't be wrong. And that my friend is a hard pill for some to swallow.

It's no longer an opinion when quite a few people have testified that they don't last from use of said product. That is factual information. Unfortunately for your argument you have little to no support showing up.

 

[Lowlight]

As I noted, the soldiers have a lot of different weapons, their heavy guns probably get minimal use. Also since when are soldiers actually testing stuff... most would not know if it was actually tracking right or not. They have no vehicle to test it out in the field. you think a FOB in Afhganistan has a 1000m range on paper to test tracking. They shoot it, if they miss they adjust, they move on. As long as the glass is clear and the turrets adjust, most are good with it.

Again, you ignore my Seal sniper instructor quote, that the ocular adjusted the eye relief, this was an instructor at their school. Teaching students to adjust the eye relief move the ocular lens.

An SF Soldier has a ton of duties, shooting stuff is a very tiny part. Most of it involves surveillance and monitoring then a bit of overwatch. They are not out sniping in high volumes. Heck a Seal has a minimum of 5 different weapons system, from the HK MP7 to the Mac 50 with everything in-between. If they put an IOR on their .50 it might be lucky to see 25 shots over a deployment. I can tell you the Rangers would go months and never shoot their .50s... never.

So keep holding up the SF card... it's gonna define you.

 

[phillip61]

I don't need support or anything else to have an opinion. My scope works. I do not base my opinion of what others say or do, I base my opinions of of my experiences. That is what makes them "MY" opinions. You base your opinions off of what ever you want to, that is what makes them "Your" opinions. Frank can base his opinions on what ever he wants to, that is what makes them "His" opinions. The SF guys can base their opinions on what they want to, thats what makes them "Their" opinions. See how this works. No one is wrong, everyone is right.

 

[Notso]

I don't need support or anything else to have an opinion. My scope works. I do not base my opinion of what others say or do, I base my opinions of of my experiences. That is what makes them "MY" opinions. You base your opinions off of what ever you want to, that is what makes them "Your" opinions. Frank can base his opinions on what ever he wants to, that is what makes them "His" opinions. The SF guys can base their opinions on what they want to, thats what makes them "Their" opinions. See how this works. No one is wrong, everyone is right.

You could always end this pointless argument once and for all by just recommending a particular IOR model for LL to test and report back on. Why would you not jump at the chance to prove him wrong and show him to be a fool? Why are you being so obtuse about this?

 

[KYS]

I don't need support or anything else to have an opinion. My scope works. I do not base my opinion of what others say or do, I base my opinions of of my experiences. That is what makes them "MY" opinions. You base your opinions off of what ever you want to, that is what makes them "Your" opinions. Frank can base his opinions on what ever he wants to, that is what makes them "His" opinions. The SF guys can base their opinions on what they want to, thats what makes them "Their" opinions. See how this works. No one is wrong, everyone is right.

Actually that is incorrect on some levels.

If I gather 10 people that have used an IOR product and we say "ok, one more time lets test them out".
9 of them experience an issue with their IOR scope. The lone ranger has a "good" one. How do you factor out the fact that 90% of the people that have used them, had an issue or poor experience?
It's pretty basic math really. And this thread has mostly said IOR is of poor quality compared to many of the other top shelf manufacturers.

Without support it is just chatter, having no factual data in an argument is like going to war with no magazines for the rifles..... makes no sense to me. How can you argue for something that has no merit?

I'm not coming down on you, I am merely saying I think you are looking at this the wrong way entirely. Look at it from a mathematical view point.

 

[phillip61]

As I noted, the soldiers have a lot of different weapons, their heavy guns probably get minimal use. Also since when are soldiers actually testing stuff... most would not know if it was actually tracking right or not. They have no vehicle to test it out in the field. you think a FOB in Afhganistan has a 1000m range on paper to test tracking. They shoot it, if they miss they adjust, they move on. As long as the glass is clear and the turrets adjust, most are good with it.

Again, you ignore my Seal sniper instructor quote, that the ocular adjusted the eye relief, this was an instructor at their school. Teaching students to adjust the eye relief move the ocular lens.

An SF Soldier has a ton of duties, shooting stuff is a very tiny part. Most of it involves surveillance and monitoring then a bit of overwatch. They are not out sniping in high volumes. Heck a Seal has a minimum of 5 different weapons system, from the HK MP7 to the Mac 50 with everything in-between. If they put an IOR on their .50 it might be lucky to see 25 shots over a deployment. I can tell you the Rangers would go months and never shoot their .50s... never.

So keep holding up the SF card... it's gonna define you.

No Frank I do not discount anything you say. Dude you are a world class guy. Not many people have reached the level of expertise you have. My hat is off to you. You are truely the man. And I mean that with all due respect. But your opinion of what constitutes testing may and probably does differ from their opinion of what constitutes testing. So you are not wrong in any definition of the word, but neither are they. If you dislike the scopes or any scope for what ever reason you are entitled to that opinion. But Frank, we are entitled to our opinions as well. regardless of how ill conceived our manner of testing, whether or not you think we tested the right things. It doesn't matter. My opinion is that the scope I have is a good scope. Your opinion is that it is a piece of crap. Ok, I understand and have no issues with it. But neither of us are wrong.

 

[Olive]

Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.
Steve Jobs