School me on .223 Bullets

[Jerry D]

I see lots of similar offerings.

What would you do and where would you start?

Do some of these use 1 in 8 twists or do some need a faster twist?

I'm planning on a bolt action with the .223 accurate mags and forgiving would be my #1 followed by a decent BC as #2.

Would be shooting to 500 yards.

75 vs 80gr eldm - these seem fairly balanced as far as BC vs weight.

77 vs 80gr smk - seems like the 80 has a big increase in BC compared to the 77 for only 3 grs.

80.5gr fullbore vs 80gr VLD - seems like the fullbore is easy to load due to the tangent ogive?

Thanks in advance!

 

[KnowNothing256]

Curious to see what responses you get, but this reads more like a question for the Reloading Depot forum.

 

[Superjet]

I've been shooting the 75 ELDM's and 80.5 Fullbores in a 1:7 223 the past two years. Both bullets have been very consistent in my rifle using Federal 205's, Starline Brass, and Varget. I tried 77 SMK's as I have a boatload of them, while the performance was good, it wasn't in line with ELDM's or Fullbores.

 

[RFutch]

Over 80 gr you’ll need a 1/7 otherwise 1/8 is what you want. For only 500 yards really any of them will be fine.

Want to push past 800 yards I would go with the Berger 85.5, long barrel and a 7 twist.

 

[Campguy308]

The only heavies I have used in 223 are the 80 eldm and 80 berger vld target out of a 7 twist. They both shot well, but the edge went to the berger in my barrel. The eldm made good groups, but the vld made good bugholes. Didn't have any problem with tuning them, ymmv.

The berger 85.5 is very intriguing as well, but never tried. Make sure you have proper freebore for your intended class of bullet.

 

[just browsing]

75 and 80 ELDs are very comparable. Both shoot well and will spin fine in an 8 twist. 75s are more for the Tac class crowd at matches (whereas the 80s would need to be shot in open class) but hard to go wrong with either.

77SMKs we’re developed as a heavier option that could be loaded to mag length and function in an AR. They pretty much hit a wall past 5-600 hards. 80SMKs are the far superior bullet in a bolt gun.

80gr VLDs and 80.5gr Fullbores are also very similar. Most say the Fullbores are more forgiving to load, but I never had any issues getting either of them to shoot. Both will be a good bit more expensive than the ELDs and you’ll likely want to go with a faster twist (7, 7.5) to stabilize them properly.

Any of the above options will shoot fine in a standard .223 Wylde chamber, but you generally want a longer freebore to take advantage of the longer heavier bullets. It’s usually easiest to pick a bullet that you want to shoot and then back into the right twist, chamber, etc. but with components the way they are currently, you’re kinda stuck with what you can find.

The 7.5 twist in a “Match” chamber (.093 fb) would be my recommendation for a do-all type gun, but understand there will be combinations more optimized for certain bullets.

 

[Pharmseller]

I've been shooting the 75 ELDM's and 80.5 Fullbores in a 1:7 223 the past two years. Both bullets have been very consistent in my rifle using Federal 205's, Starline Brass, and Varget. I tried 77 SMK's as I have a boatload of them, while the performance was good, it wasn't in line with ELDM's or Fullbores.

+1 on 75 ELDM and Varget. I get 2930 fps, .467 BC.

50 gr Ballistic Tip Varmint with Benchmark is another great option. I get 3400 fps, BC .238. The BC isn’t as high but the velocity difference makes up for it, especially inside of 500 yards.

Compare the two in a ballistics program, you might be surprised.




P

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

I've done very well with my 75gr eldm out of my 7.5t wylde barrel. I use TAC, as it's easier for me tonfind and works extremely well for me.. The Hornady bullets are cheaper and a ton easier to find and I don't see how any other bullet could group better at 100 in my gun. The 75 is best in mine as well. There are better bullets for distance but not a lot better imo, for a .223. If you can get what you want out of those, I don't know why you wouldn't. 80 smk is also very good and better at distance but not a lot.

 

[KnowNothing256]

@just browsing Great write-up, I learned more than a few things from that post. Thanks.

 

[Lowholer]

Nice write up!

 

[db2000]

I get the best velocity from 23.8 gr H4895 in my gas guns and 77 SMK. 1/7 and 1/8 both shoot them equally well. 0.6 MOA x 5 shots and 1” x 10 shots. No problems out to 600 yd. RL15 was accurate also but 75 fps or so slower.

 

[Jerry D]

Okay great. Yes I found this informative because there is quite the difference in bc and intended platforms between these bullets yet all are similar weight classes.

I’ve decided to order up some of the 75 eldm due to their price point as a start.

I will check into some twist rates and freebores.

 

[spife7980]

9 twist is good up to 69 gr bullets, 8 twist up to the 80 and a 7 twist for the 90s. Some use a 6.5 twist for the 95s.

The heavier the bullet the longer it gets. The longer it gets the more twist it needs to stay balanced and not go end over end.

You may luck out with a heavier bullet for a given twist still managing to stay balanced but the above rules of thumbs are safe parameters.

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

If 500 will be your max it won't really matter much. For instance a 77RDF vs a 77SMK at 500 you get (drop in mils/ wind per 5mph) 2.9/.6 and 3.1/.7 respectively. About 3" drop difference and if you didn't round the wind drift it would likely be less than .1mil.

The 77smk is incredibly forgiving and many others(not me) have had very good luck with 75eldm bullets. I'd pick whichever is cheaper and roll with it if 500 was 90% of my shooting.

 

[Pharmseller]

I've done very well with my 75gr eldm out of my 7.5t wylde barrel. I use TAC, as it's easier for me tonfind and works extremely well for me.. The Hornady bullets are cheaper and a ton easier to find and I don't see how any other bullet could group better at 100 in my gun. The 75 is best in mine as well. There are better bullets for distance but not a lot better imo, for a .223. If you can get what you want out of those, I don't know why you wouldn't. 80 smk is also very good and better at distance but not a lot.

Do you mind sharing your TAC load data?

 

[Huskydriver]

Do you mind sharing your TAC load data?

Tac likes to be run near max in my experience for best groups. 24 +- with 75s and 77s

 

[whatsupdoc]

If you are shooting a bolt rifle forget about 77SMK there are so many bullets out there in
that weight range that have a much better BC.

At 500 a 75-80 will do you fine.

 

[6MT]

I use Berger 80gr VLD’s with a 26” 1:8” barrel. I use a .010” jump with 23.8gr of Varget. The speeds are just over 2915fps. And I’ve shot very well in 700m silhouette matches. In fact on calm days, I call this my 1km plinking rifle. And…it’s the rifle with no recoil.

But, the 1:8” barrel works very well with the 80gr VLD.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Over 80 gr you’ll need a 1/7 otherwise 1/8 is what you want. For only 500 yards really any of them will be fine.

Want to push past 800 yards I would go with the Berger 85.5, long barrel and a 7 twist.

How long are we talking?

 

[ma smith]

If you are shooting a bolt rifle forget about 77SMK there are so many bullets out there in
that weight range that have a much better BC.

At 500 a 75-80 will do you fine.

77 smk fits 2.26 COAL and 8 twist and is very consistent. But pricey.

 

[stello1001]

77 smk fits 2.26 COAL and 8 twist and is very consistent. But pricey.

It also works in a 9 twist. That is my reason for using the 77SMK. I'd rather use better but the twist limits me.

I wonder if the 75ELDM would work.

 

[RFutch]

How long are we talking?

I’d do a 26”.

 

[FN15]

I have a .223 that has probably killed at least 30-35 does. Every deer I’ve taken has been a head shot and I shoot Black Hills 52gr HP. I generally use this gun if I’m out for does (or doe, whichever way you prefer it) but have other plenty of other guns if I’m looking for a shoulder shot. People have been killing deer with a .223 for many years.

 

[Pharmseller]

I say does for plural of doe.

 

[Crabcore]

I have made hits at a PRS match to 850 yards with a 26" barrel 223 shooting a 73 ELDM in an AR platform. If you are shooing a gas gun, check out the 73gr ELDM, as they are designed to be mag length. The 75 ELDM will want to be loaded longer, and you will want a bolt gun.

quite frankly, an AR with a decent barrel will shoot to 600 yards no problem with nothing fancier than an old school 69 smk. That bullet is extremely easy to load for.

 

[Chickentoast]

7.5 twist 26" here. Shilen VLD chamber. 80 eldm's in .1's and .2's w/ N540. Tested @ 100, 200, 465 and 910 yds so far. Definitely shoots inside my old barrel, which was 20" 9 twist, but happened to shoot 75's great even at my 910 yd spot.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

i'd go 8 twist minimum

smk is for punching paper.

in 2.25 mag box i'm running 77gr tmk for game (best terminal and BC imho) and 75gr bthp fpr play.

75gr eld-m has a shorter bearing surface vs 80gr so gain in Bc is met with a equal opposite loss in BC.


no idea on berger's. don't use em.

77gr lapua scenars make little holes.

 

[308pirate]

Tac likes to be run near max in my experience for best groups. 24 +- with 75s and 77s

Yes it does. Also burns a lot cleaner at the top of the range.

 

[RTH1800]

i'd go 8 twist minimum

smk is for punching paper.

in 2.25 mag box i'm running 77gr tmk for game (best terminal and BC imho) and 75gr bthp fpr play.

75gr eld-m has a shorter bearing surface vs 80gr so gain in Bc is met with a equal opposite loss in BC.


no idea on berger's. don't use em.

77gr lapua scenars make little holes.

Curious about your comment "SMK's are for punching paper". What is your experience with that?

 

[Gustav7]

Tac likes to be run near max in my experience for best groups. 24 +- with 75s and 77s

I want to love TAC, but the temp swings (at least in my gun) had me switch over to 8208

 

[308pirate]

I want to love TAC, but the temp swings (at least in my gun) had me switch over to 8208

I use tons of it but I've never paid attention. I guess I'll need to go to TVP on a cold ass day (I'm sure we have a few coming up LOL) and get dope, then do it again in August to see what the change looks like.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Curious about your comment "SMK's are for punching paper". What is your experience with that?

SHHH, can't let the secret out that thousands if not tens of thousands of shitheads have been schwacked with SMK in last 30 years.

Its a paper punching bullet.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

At 500 yards and in save your money and buy whatever. If shooting KD the more expensive bullets really don't offer anything at that distance.

Cheap Hornady 75s are more than fine on 2 MOA targets out to that distance.

 

[Gustav7]

I use tons of it but I've never paid attention. I guess I'll need to go to TVP on a cold ass day (I'm sure we have a few coming up LOL) and get dope, then do it again in August to see what the change looks like.

To be my own devil's advocate, I only ran them over a cheap chrono at 50*, 70*, and 90*. Load was developed at ~90 in the summer on purpose, so I didn't accidentally go over pressure when it got hotter. I was getting 70-100fps swings across the hi/low temps.

I did NOT verify any of this on the range, but I had bought a pound to do load development and had to make a decision, so I just went with 8208 instead. Bought 10lbs of it at the beginning of the pandemic and just stuck with it for 223(AR) and 223AI(bolt)

I've heard guys on here not have the same issues, so I definitely don't blame anyone for using it, it can get the 70-80gr'ers moving quick