Scope Gurus: why don't scope makers have levels on their reticles?

[Milf Dots]

Attention Scope Gurus and Optics Companies: Why don't all the best scope makers simply have accurate plumb/ level indicators on their reticles? For example a level indicator viewable with the reticle, like Sig Sauer has on some of their top scopes... It seems like a no brainer...

It's kind of silly to have to clock an external level to a reticle- but necessary of course.

And, has anyone ever seen an out of plumb reticle from NF, Zeiss, TT, ZCO, SB, Kahles, March, Hensoldt?

Perhaps some of you have seen the manufacturing processes and a stage where reticle clocking/alignment is verified...?

 

[FuhQ]

Are you asking questions, or making statements? It’s hard to decipher.

Secondly, I do think internal bubbles are nice, as they allow you to ensure level, without having to remove your eye from the scope, or breaking your cheek weld. But it seems most scope companies don’t do it. Not sure why. You would think it would definitely be more prevalent on hunting scopes where weight and profile are more important.

Back when I was a poor many years ago, I had a Konus M30 8-32x52 that had an internal level. It was a nice feature, but was a shame the rest of the scope was such a dumpster fire pile of shit.

 

[rothgyr]

US Optics has had the option for internal levels for years, but they often encroach on the field of view in order to get it fitted inside the eye piece.

What I wouldn't mind seeing is a Brandt Built sort of thing, but inside the scope. It's a big ask though, with a lot of engineering hurdles with passing stuff around lenses and the erector.

 

[TonyG]

Would it really be that hard to make it a part of the scope body? A couple of cnc changes to machining code. Since the bodies are machined from a solid block, it wouldn't be much of a change.

 

[b6graham]

companies have sent out canted reticles before. it happens.

do we really need more electronics that may or may not even be accurate in our scopes anyways?

 

[Tokay444]

Attention Scope Gurus and Optics Companies: Why don't all the best scope makers simply have accurate plumb/ level indicators on their reticles? For example a level indicator viewable with the reticle, like Sig Sauer has on some of their top scopes... It seems like a no brainer...

It's kind of silly to have to clock an external level to a reticle- but necessary of course.

And, has anyone ever seen an out of plumb reticle from NF, Zeiss, TT, ZCO, SB, Kahles, March, Hensoldt?

Perhaps some of you have seen the manufacturing processes and a stage where reticle clocking/alignment is verified...?

How much more would you be willing to pay?

 

[phlegm]

The only internal levels I have seen have been bubble levels in the eyepiece (USO, Konus, Springfield Armory) or digital (Sig, Revic, Steiner IFS).

I'm certain that a level inside the reticle has been considered. The fact that no one offers it tells me that it is harder to do in the real world than it seems to be on paper.

 

[RKBArmory]

This isn't exactly what @Milf Dots is talking about, but, I do think it is kind of helpful how Sig has the line etched on the outside of some of their scopes. They call it a, "Laser engraved mounting line to align riflescope to scope rings."

 

[acudaowner]

are you prepared to pay 9k for a rifle scope with a 20.00 dollar level inside of it ? you have to know how much a company would want to charge extra for that function .

 

[Tokay444]

The only internal levels I have seen have been bubble levels in the eyepiece (USO, Konus, Springfield Armory) or digital (Sig, Revic, Steiner IFS).

I'm certain that a level inside the reticle has been considered. The fact that no one offers it tells me that it is harder to do in the real world than it seems to be on paper.

Very difficult to etch something that is free floating.

 

[spife7980]

 

[corsairpilot62]

While manufacturing an internal level is possible and has been done. The addition of an internal level increases the complexity of manufacturing the scope, increases production cost and time to deliver each unit. Add on to that some folks want it some do not. So two different assembly lines….etc.
All for something you can bolt on externally.

Side note: I love that Sig has a centering line engraved on the scope tube!

 

[carbonbased]

Some higher-end Leupolds have an electronic levels built-in. If activated, the reticle blinks if you cant too much…not sure the exact degree at which it activates. I know the VX6HD line has them.

I never used it while shooting because as @spife7980 alludes to, one’s eye usually can do the leveling to a degree in which any small error doesn’t matter. And the flashing ret is irritating.

However, where it was TITS is when leveling the scope. First world solution to a first world problem, yeah, but it was nice to not find/use something plumb.

 

[SD Carpenter]

Some higher-end Leupolds have an electronic levels built-in. If activated, the reticle blinks if you cant too much…not sure the exact degree at which it activates. I know the VX6HD line has them.

I never used it while shooting because as @spife7980 alludes to, one’s eye usually can do the leveling to a degree in which any small error doesn’t matter. And the flashing ret is irritating.

However, where it was TITS is when leveling the scope. First world solution to a first world problem, yeah, but it was nice to not find/use something plumb.

Yeah the vx-6 has had it for about 7/8 years now.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Speaking as a hunter, not a bench shooter.
The term is having to make a "jump shot" and not having a second or two to get everything into a perfect world.
Low light, tree limbs, stepping over a dead fall, dropping my last cup of coffee as I sight in, etc......
The last thought would be is my setup level. That is an instict that a long time hunter develops.
JMHO

 

[NCgreentick]

Back when I was a poor many years ago, I had a Konus M30 8-32x52 that had an internal level. It was a nice feature, but was a shame the rest of the scope was such a dumpster fire pile of shit.

I had the same experience with a Springfield Armory scope from the mid-nineties. Had a cool reticle and internal bubble level but a total POS.

 

[just browsing]

USO, for as much crap as they’ve gotten over the years, incorporates levels extremely well in the FDN series. It’s subtle enough not to be distracting or obstruct FOV, but easily picked up with peripheral vision/without removing eyes from target or reticle.

A lot of good options anymore with SendIT and tube mounted levels, but the USO is an excellent design.

ETA: also can confirm, it’s extremely convenient for leveling the scope.

 

[Milf Dots]

However, where it was TITS is when leveling the scope. First world solution to a first world problem, yeah, but it was nice to not find/use something plumb.

This ^ .

 

[david walter]

If your scope isn’t square to your action, the bundle gives a false sense of security.

Most people I know who are not on this site or who don’t shoot PRS haven’t a clue how to square the reticle and confirm at the range.

 

[E. Bryant]

The reticle is tiny - it's housed in a tube that's within the ID of the main tube, so you're talking about something much smaller than a dime. Not much real estate in which to place grandpa's bubble level. Plus, the last thing most marksmen want is an obstruction in their FOV.

Save this for the day when electro-optical systems replace glass scopes.

 

[Carlos Danger]

My level is mounted on left side of my scope. If I shoot with both eyes my brain superimposes it in my right eye field of view and it appears to the lower right quadrant of the reticle. Don't ask me how it works but I'm fairly certain this doesn't work for everyone.

 

[B y r o n]

I have one of the Konus scopes that were built with a level supposedly visible when looking through the scope. It's a good thing I didn't find any other problems with the scope. The problem with the level was it was to dark to see. Even using a light it wouldn't matter. I had it on a scope mounting jig and try as I may I could not get the bubble to settle at 12 o'clock. I could get it close but then it would roll off to the end of the arch. I ended up mounting the scope as I normally would. Basically I have a scope with a totally useless feature.

 

[JM4590]

Most people I know who are not on this site or who don’t shoot PRS haven’t a clue how to square the reticle and confirm at the range.

Most people who shoot PRS don’t even need a level. It’s a crutch. It’s shit to look at and take away from time to build a better position. Unless you are trying to shoot with your rifle canted at a 45 deg angle, level don’t mean shit inside 1000. Can we not look through the fn scope and see that it’s damn close to level or not? I’d bet MOST here can lay a rifle on a barricade or whatever and not be more than 1/4 bubble off of level….and therefore….WTFC?

 

[samnev]

I have one of the Konus scopes that were built with a level supposedly visible when looking through the scope. It's a good thing I didn't find any other problems with the scope. The problem with the level was it was to dark to see. Even using a light it wouldn't matter. I had it on a scope mounting jig and try as I may I could not get the bubble to settle at 12 o'clock. I could get it close but then it would roll off to the end of the arch. I ended up mounting the scope as I normally would. Basically I have a scope with a totally useless feature.

I had aa konus M30 6.5-25X44 with the same problem. Scope was decent but as noted level was useless.

 

[Ghosting]

I had a Sig tango 6 5-30x56. It had an electronic level indicator in it. It was an orange arrow on the left and right side that would light up if you were off by half a degree. For a scope you could pick up used for $800-900 it was solid.

 

[Jaydee1445]

The Leupold VX-HD recital flashes at one degree tilt. I liked mine for a Fudd rifle. Sucked as a tactical scope.

 

[supercorndogs]

I didn't mind it on my Tango 6. That said its not an option I would want to pay one red cent for.

 

[Schütze]

And then there’s this if one feels like a level is needed.

Shop | Brandt Built Concepts

www.brandtbuiltconcepts.com

 

[pmclaine]

There earth is flat. It’s unnecessary.

 

[pmclaine]

The Leupold VX-HD recital flashes at one degree tilt. I liked mine for a Fudd rifle. Sucked as a tactical scope.

Rectal?

 

[supercorndogs]

Rectal flashes. I think they make a creme for that.

 

[pmclaine]

If your rectal is not level it makes a mess out of the side of the shitter.