Scope heights vs. head tilt

[Jayjay1]

Hey guys,
somewhat new to the game I always read and hear you should hold your head straight up.

I have a hard time trying this, anyway how I´m laying behind the rifle, I must tilt my head to be able to look through the center of the scope.
Well, I may have a wider skull than most people do, like the midwife pre-birth once said: "Let´s hope that the baby hasn´t the head of its father."

What I´m honestly thinking about for a while now is, if mounting the scope a 1/4" higher would solve the problem.

I´ve mounted my scope very low.
It is a Steiner M7Xi with a tube dia of 34mm, the lens cap of the objective is about 1/5" of an inch above the barrel.

So if I would take a scope mount which lifts the scope about 1/4", would that make a difference at all?

I would be happy to read your meanings or exoerience in this.


Best wishes,
Jay

 

[AIAW]

It would be a priority to get behind the optic with a straighter profile. Not only is tilting your head unnaturally stressful, it involves active muscles to keep it there. Maintaining sight picture is also more difficult during the recoil cycle

It’s also not advantageous having to “dig” for the correct eye box. With some stock designs it’s just something you have to deal and adapt to it based on your face shape.

Having the scope absolutely as low as possible is a long-standing “myth” so to speak. It was better in the aspect that the scope was less likely to get hung up on brush and often provided acceptable cheek welds with say 40mm optics.

Other than changing the PBR slightly, there is no real disadvantage with going higher, only the advantage of consistency since it would allow you to properly mount the rifle. Cheek weld should be the main reason one would select a certain height base/rings (that and of course clearing the barrel).

 

[308pirate]

Unfortunately the internet is still full of dumb people who give advice like "mount the scope as low as physically possible" with zero understanding of why that isn't always the way to go.

A natural head position is far more important than putting the scope as low as possible.

 

[XLR308]

I personally didn't know what I was missing out on until I got out of my comfort zone and went in an entirely new and different direction.
That direction was an XLR carbon chassis that right off the bat had to mount the scope higher than would be necessary on a conventional stock but is infinitely more adjustable for length of pull, cheek adjustment, recoil pad height and cant.
At 6'2" with long arms and neck, the scope riding higher, the rear of the stock adjusted to my build and pulling the recoil pad position a little farther inward from my shoulder socket it all just feels more natural and easier to get behind now.

 

[Jayjay1]

Well, I can´t change my head, it is as square as it is, so I understand that mounting the scope higher would help me.

I do have a fully adjustable stock, the KRG Bravo.

So may I ask you how high above the barrel your scopes are sitting, or how big the distance between the center of the barrel and the center of the scope ist?

 

[XLR308]

I'm not at home at the moment but best guess on the height of the objective housing above the barrel on the Carbon chassis I would say roughly a 1/2".
After I went and talked to the guys at XLR and told them what chassis I was using and what scope the rings they pulled off the shelf were perfect for the LRHSi 4.5-18x44, on the same rifle with an IOR 3-18x42 and Badger rings it's about the same.

 

[AIAW]

Well, I can´t change my head, it is as square as it is, so I understand that mounting the scope higher would help me.

I do have a fully adjustable stock, the KRG Bravo.

So may I ask you how high above the barrel your scopes are sitting, or how big the distance between the center of the barrel and the center of the scope ist?

My average sight-height is between 2.5" and 2.8" across most of my bolt rifles.

 

[Jayjay1]

My average sight-height is between 2.5" and 2.8" across most of my bolt rifles.

From center barrel to center scope, or the gap between barrel and scope?

 

[AIAW]

From center barrel to center scope, or the gap between barrel and scope?

Gap I don't worry much about at all - it ends up being whatever it turns out to be after getting a solid cheek weld without any weird neck positioning.

I keep them sort of close though, I'd say .25 inches generally, or so. This is a highly subjective measurement though as it varies too much based on action/barrel contour.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Your bipod/shoulder/elbow height matters as well.

Ever noticed it’s easier to get square behind the rifle and head not tilted on a barricade?

If so, that likely means you need to raise the bipod and get up on your elbows a bit more.

Another myth that goes along with mounting rings low is getting the bipod/rifle as low to the ground as it will go. Don’t be afraid to raise it up a bit. You’ll be surprised how much easier it is to get behind the rifle.

Also, you may need to bring the butt closer to your centerline. If you’re too far out in the “pocket” you will have to roll your head as well.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

I think this is a problem I'm having on a precision gas gun. Got a xlr tactical AR stock, which is great, but the cheek piece is wider than a magpul prs or a standard AR stock. This pushes my head to the side, and i have to roll it over to get a good sight picture. Cheek piece is as low as i can get it. I'm thinking a higher scope mount will help. I may still have to roll my head a little, but it shouldn't be as bad. Problem is, there aren't many AR mounts that are taller than standard, and those that are tend to be really expensive.

 

[Maxduty]

I think this is a problem I'm having on a precision gas gun. Got a xlr tactical AR stock, which is great, but the cheek piece is wider than a magpul prs or a standard AR stock. This pushes my head to the side, and i have to roll it over to get a good sight picture. Cheek piece is as low as i can get it. I'm thinking a higher scope mount will help. I may still have to roll my head a little, but it shouldn't be as bad. Problem is, there aren't many AR mounts that are taller than standard, and those that are tend to be really expensive.

I'd try a riser mount first to see if it helps. It's a much cheaper way to find out.

 

[C_R_Slacker]

I'd try a riser mount first to see if it helps. It's a much cheaper way to find out.
View attachment 7184366

True, didn't think of that. Good idea, thanks.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Hey guys,
somewhat new to the game I always read and hear you should hold your head straight up.

I have a hard time trying this, anyway how I´m laying behind the rifle, I must tilt my head to be able to look through the center of the scope.
Well, I may have a wider skull than most people do, like the midwife pre-birth once said: "Let´s hope that the baby hasn´t the head of its father."

What I´m honestly thinking about for a while now is, if mounting the scope a 1/4" higher would solve the problem.

I´ve mounted my scope very low.
It is a Steiner M7Xi with a tube dia of 34mm, the lens cap of the objective is about 1/5" of an inch above the barrel.

So if I would take a scope mount which lifts the scope about 1/4", would that make a difference at all?

I would be happy to read your meanings or exoerience in this.


Best wishes,
Jay

First I did not read all responses,..
Unless your comfortable an relaxed behind the glass you will never shoot the gun well all the time.
If your game is prone keep changing the height an front to rear setting with the scope set to mid power until when your behind it an have mounted with your eyes close an relaxed that when you open your eyes the sight picture is perfect an there is no shadowing in the scope at all. If your game is off hand the same thing/way applies as well as bench rest only. If your game is unknown position/field or run an gun then make notes on all position placement an lock it down at the mid point of scope height, an fore to aft placement. If you have a stock that has cast ability for face/cheek size make sure your setting/recording this adjustment each position as well then mid point it. There is no one height or fore/aft or cast adjustment, that fits all positions but you can get it very close were your adjusting to the different positions w/o much trouble at all.

 

[wade2big]

Your head will never be completely straight. Be reasonable.

 

[candyx]

Take the scope completely off and use tracer rounds to correct your fire, the urge to just blast away has to be overwhelming. Wonder if it was a beer run....

 

[Steel head]

Where the stock engages the body is a factor on head tilt as well.

 

[Jayjay1]

Where the stock engages the body?
You mean at the rear end?

Well, I place the butt more on my collar bone, not in the shoulder pocket.
This helps me somewhat getting more straight behind the rifle, and the 6.5CM is not a problem that way.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Where the stock engages the body?
You mean at the rear end?

Well, I place the butt more on my collar bone, not in the shoulder pocket.
This helps me somewhat getting more straight behind the rifle, and the 6.5CM is not a problem that way.

Caliber isn’t a factor. Also, even something as low recoiling as a .223 or dasher can exploit bad placement/fundamentals. It just doesn’t feel like it.

 

[BlackOpsEnt]

UPDATE: I believe I found my answer in the YouTube video, "Intro to Long Range Shooting w/ Ryan Cleckner (part 1)", produced by the Warrior Poet Society.

I've been tweaking my sh*t for the past few months but I feel something is still not quite right with my scope setup. I talked with a guy at the local gun shop who said he would help. I will ask for assistance. We'll have to break the blue seal.

If this doesn't work out, what is the next best place to go. I feel bench shooting and prone shooting are different when focusing on eye relief. Am I fooling myself?

Thanks.

 

[Jayjay1]

I've been tweaking my sh*t for the past few months but I feel something is still not quite right with my scope setup.
...

I´m happy that you wrote that, it´s exactly what I´m fighting.

I would change my mount, which will cost me something, if I only knew which way to go.

 

[wade2big]

I´m happy that you wrote that, it´s exactly what I´m fighting.

I would change my mount, which will cost me something, if I only knew which way to go.

Another thing you can do is to not level the scope to a level rifle. Allow the rifle to cant toward your centerline just a bit and notice how easy it is to see straight through your scope. Once you get comfortable, hold the rifle in this position and level the reticle in your scope to a plumb line. This is usually a much more natural and repeatable position than shooting with a completely vertical rifle.