Seekins HAVAK Precision Rifle

#101
Brentc said:
Hmmm... Do you really NEED a cheekrest to get a rifle to perform? Seems kind of petty when there are plenty of guys that have absolutely no problem hitting distant targets without a cheekrest by deploying basic shooting fundamentals.
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That's cool and all, but everybody has a different facial structure and what works for one person doesn't work for another. Lot's of people hunt with a Rem 770. Do you really NEED a $2k semi-custom rifle for any of this? But if you are going to pay that much, shouldn't you at least be able to easily fit the rifle to the shooter, rather than velcro some makeshift stock pack to it? Sure it will probably work for most people, but then most people haven't been spoiled by fully adjustable custom stocks/chassis, either.
-Dan
 
#102
Glen Seekins said:
Sorry your had that experience,
We think there was some foam dust from packaging we used in the rifle boxes that stuck to the oiled surfaces on the bolt making them sticky. When they are packaged the bolt sits in its cutout spot in the foam and pretty sure thats where it picked it up. The feed lips.. some of the Magpul mags have flashing on top of the feed lips from the mold process. Not all are like this but some are for sure, this wasn't realized until rifles were shipped out, the box store rifles shipped over a month ago. Simple fix we do here now. everyone else's AI style mag lips are considerably lower.
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Thanks for the info. You guys make a good product for sure. I think every action needs a little cleaning, lube and break-in to run it's smoothest.

All the Magpul mags I have used thus far needed some sanding of modification to remedy. The feedlip tend to be too tall and can ride the bolt and the are a little too wide to drop free from a DBM.

And to address the adjustable cheek-piece, They are releasing more models of the Havak. I believe these have a more adjustable stock. The price of the this rifle is outstanding. With this price there has to be some compromises. You are not going to get a $4K rifle for $2k. I think this rifle is a winner by a great American company.
 
#103
I am considering one of these in 6.5 PRC. I'm looking for confirmation that it will have the flush Seekins mag allowing longer OAL (3.15" I believe) as well as the AICS spacer. Seen some stuff on the 6.5 PRC/GAP 6.5 SAUM FB page.

Also, will the freebore allow you to take advantage of the longer 6.5 bullets - Hornady 147gr ELD, Berger 155 gr, etc.?
 
#104
ddavis said:
That's cool and all, but everybody has a different facial structure and what works for one person doesn't work for another. Lot's of people hunt with a Rem 770. Do you really NEED a $2k semi-custom rifle for any of this? But if you are going to pay that much, shouldn't you at least be able to easily fit the rifle to the shooter, rather than velcro some makeshift stock pack to it? Sure it will probably work for most people, but then most people haven't been spoiled by fully adjustable custom stocks/chassis, either.
-Dan
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That'd be a cool experiment. Why don't you go buy a remington 770 and make it last through a shooting season.

I'm betting the Seekins without a cheekrest in the hands of a capable shooter would pass this test with flying colors.

Again my point is, you don't need a cheekrest to get excellent performance. And it's not a "shame" for everyone if you're one of the 2% of the population that the game warden doesn't fit.
 
#105
Brentc said:
That'd be a cool experiment. Why don't you go buy a remington 770 and make it last through a shooting season.

I'm betting the Seekins without a cheekrest in the hands of a capable shooter would pass this test with flying colors.

Again my point is, you don't need a cheekrest to get excellent performance. And it's not a "shame" for everyone if you're one of the 2% of the population that the game warden doesn't fit.
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Due to my facial structure and trifocal lenses I allways need a cheekrest to shoot well. I would NEVER buy a high end rifle if it does not have an adjustable comb riser. All my rifles have McM and Manners adjustable stocks, chassis or expensive wood stocks that have been cut and modified with cheekrisers.





 
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#106
What I'm saying is that a person shouldn't have to compromise when buying high end gear. Getting a stock that requires you to add on a cheek riser is acceptable for a cheap hunting rifle. No one is going to argue that. But cheek risers of some fashion are pretty well accepted as being important for a precision rifle to correctly fit the end user. This was my first time playing with a McMillan stock. I was quickly reminded why I've been using fully adjustable chassis systems for the last 8 years or so.
 
#107
If the rifle fits the individual perfectly that individual will shoot better, especially in odd or uncomfortable positions. Having the options for any quick on the fly stock or chassis adjustments helps as well. I find it easier to shoot offhand if I adjust my LOP shorter which brings the balance of the rifle more to the center. Then in prone I prefer a longer LOP than most guys my size. I found out last year that most grip lengths were too long for me after buying a GRS Bolthorn chassis which gives me the option of moving the grip closer to the trigger so I can pull it straight back which is ideal.

I like the FTW sling because I can adjust it perfectly and I like having an adjustable handstop so I can set it just right. This vs the oldstyle handstop and slings which used holes at fixed lengths in the rail or in the sling to adjust approx length.

The Olympic shooters have fully adjustable chassis systems for a reason and the notion of that concept is the evolution of fitment to a rifle aiding marksmanship via comfort and support. Not contorting one's body to accommodate a rifle.

A good shot can use the standard rifle with reasonable success but he'll use a rifle that fits him even better.
 
#108
ddavis said:
What I'm saying is that a person shouldn't have to compromise when buying high end gear.
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A "no compromise" rifle doesn't cost under $2k, and clearly Seekins (like EVERY maker) is building to a price point they've determined to be optimal for their offering. Not sure how realistic it is to think you're going to get everything under the sun for the price it's offered at, and as much as an adjustable riser is nice and can aid in tailoring the rifle to fit you, it's no deal breaker for me.
 
#109
Brentc said:
That'd be a cool experiment. Why don't you go buy a remington 770 and make it last through a shooting season.

I'm betting the Seekins without a cheekrest in the hands of a capable shooter would pass this test with flying colors.

Again my point is, you don't need a cheekrest to get excellent performance. And it's not a "shame" for everyone if you're one of the 2% of the population that the game warden doesn't fit.
Click to expand...

You're hallucinating if you think only 2% of the population needs an adjustable cheek to get "excellent performance". Excellent performance requires a repeatable cheek weld. Without it, you're going to have a different point of aim evertime you shoulder the rifle. And for people that mostly stalk and shoot freehand when they hunt, that might be fine since that's not really a precision game. But it seems like the rifle is targeted towards the precision crowd, who want a repeatable cheek weld, so it only makes sense they would eventually offer models with an adjustable cheek piece.

With all that said, the rifle fits the bill. It's not a $4k custom. It's a high quality rifle at a great price point. I bet the'll offer models with adjustable cheeks eventually. And they'll get a premium for those.
 
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#110
I think it hit the 2k price point very well. I'm sure it's being targeted towards hunting and at 7.3lbs it's already on the heavy side. I ordered a non adjustable stock for my last GAP because it was ment for hunting and if I needed to raise the cheek weld I would rather add a stock pack for the same weight as the hardware for the adjustable cheekpeice.
 
#111
Aaron47pb said:
You're hallucinating if you think only 2% of the population needs an adjustable cheek to get "excellent performance". Excellent performance requires a repeatable cheek weld. Without it, you're going to have a different point of aim evertime you shoulder the rifle. And for people that mostly stalk and shoot freehand when they hunt, that might be fine since that's not really a precision game. But it seems like the rifle is targeted towards the precision crowd, who want a repeatable cheek weld, so it only makes sense they would eventually offer models with an adjustable cheek piece.

With all that said, the rifle fits the bill. It's not a $4k custom. It's a high quality rifle at a great price point. I bet the'll offer models with adjustable cheeks eventually. And they'll get a premium for those.
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You guys are making simple stuff rather difficult. And no. I'm not hallucinating. I agree that a good cheek weld is necessary. You may have to apply some extra wisdom in your scope and ring choice to get there, but you don't NEED an adjustable cheekrest.

Let's define excellent performance. IMO excellent performance in a mass produced rifle is a consistent 1/2 MOA with factory ammunition. Based on the build list and field reports I expect that the Seekins Havak hunting rifle with a properly matched optic in the hands of a good shooter can achieve that without an adjustable cheekrest.
 
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#113
The cheek rest talk is ridiculous. How many other production hunting rifles come with an adjustable cheek? If you want to add one, go ahead. The rest of us will appreciate the lower price point, lighter weight, and option to adjust cheek height with the method we see fit in the current configuration.
 
#114
I've got a M70 SS classic sitting in a Game Warden with the adjustable cheek. If I didn't have the adj. cheek, I'd need a periscope or a pile of closed cell foam under my stock pack for a proper sight pic with a NXS 3.5-15x50 and 20 moa rail. It would do better with an optic with a smaller objective, but you'd still be craining your neck for a proper sight picture. I like the concept they are going for. Might just need some options down the road like adj cheek piece and stuff of that nature.
 
#118
The PRC's have not shipped yet. We are waiting on our new 3 round carbon fiber magazines to arrive. These mags are well suited for the hunting rifle and give you plenty of overall length to play with. you can still put the spacer back into the DBM and use AI mag's if you want. Guns are built boxed and ready to go as soon as the mags get here.
 
#120
Glen Seekins said:
To answer you on calibers - 6 and 6.5 Creed, 6.5 PRC, and 308 in the short action. 300 Win Mag and 28 Nossler in the long action.
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Glen, I see that Cabelas has the specs for the 300 WM as an 11 twist. Is this true? If so, why not 9 or 10 to spin up the 200+ grain heavies for LRH applications?
 
#122
Glen Seekins said:
The PRC's have not shipped yet. We are waiting on our new 3 round carbon fiber magazines to arrive. These mags are well suited for the hunting rifle and give you plenty of overall length to play with. you can still put the spacer back into the DBM and use AI mag's if you want. Guns are built boxed and ready to go as soon as the mags get here.
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Now your talking. I like what I'm hearing. I looked at the factory load for 6.5 PRC w/147 eld-m, it said it's going 2965 FPS. I was getting 2880 FPS out of my Barrett MRAD (260 rem.) this summer w/ the 147 and RL17.

If you were able to take that case and the 147 add your own magical powder combo into your long mag. One would hope for 3000-3200 FPS. I don't know the SAMMI spec pressure (PSI) for the cartridge, thats why you start with a low charge and work your way up from there. H1000, RL26...........?
 
#124
bkw1911 said:
Just get a triad with adjustments. The purpose or the gamescout, warden and eh1 etc are to cut down on weight for a hunting rifle. Not really a shame since the weight on this thing is pretty good. No need to add a lb or more in hardware.
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^^^ This is good advice. The Triad stock pack comes with inserts to adjust height very easily and comfortably. I have at least half a dozen of them. They make sitting on the scope for extended periods more comfortable, things are not so slippery when it's hot and your face is sweating, and can take the sting out of a cold stock in sub-0 temperatures.

Come to think of it, how about Glen offers a SH group buy on the Havak and throws in a Triad stock pack???
 
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#126
Honestly, I don't care what it feels like in the store. Nor do I care that the Magpul feed lips rub. I had to sand down both of the Magpul magazines I own to use them in my Tempest action-ed rifle. So that's no reflection on the rifle.

None of my custom actions felt that great right out of the box, but they are all smooth as butter now. So far the one guy who has shot the rifle, competed with it and hunted with it, loves the rifle. I think that trumps speculation and Cabelas gun counter nitpicking.
 
#127
Birddog6424 said:
Honestly, I don't care what it feels like in the store. Nor do I care that the Magpul feed lips rub. I had to sand down both of the Magpul magazines I own to use them in my Tempest action-ed rifle. So that's no reflection on the rifle.

None of my custom actions felt that great right out of the box, but they are all smooth as butter now. So far the one guy who has shot the rifle, competed with it and hunted with it, loves the rifle. I think that trumps speculation and Cabelas gun counter nitpicking.
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Since Glen will probably be in town this weekend for the match, you should grab him and both of you go over to Cabela's and take a look at that .308 Havak that's on the shelf. Take a good look at the stock too around the rear sling swivel too.
 
#128
I won't get to see Glen at the 3 man 3 gun match this weekend. My girlfriend makes an all girls squad every year with his wife Katie and Tenille Chidester (Mike Gibson's daughter of MGM Targets), so she will be in his squad.

Unfortunately, our Rocky Mountain Precision Rifle Series League is shooting our Finale this weekend in Nephi Utah. And I've been invested in that all year. I'm sitting in 6th out of 260 registered shooters, so away I go.

The Havak is a new product. And I've watched Seekins roll out a lot of new products over the years. They have a reputation for making excellent products, so I have a lot of faith that this will be a great rifle for them.
 
#129
Glen Seekins said:
Correct, we have geat luck with Berger 210 vld's in 11 twist 300wm rifles. Been shooting that combo for years and it's pretty hard to beat.
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I'm trying to make sense of the marketing strategy here. You're offering an 8 twist 28 Nosler to appeal to the LRH crowd looking to run the 195s, however you employed a completely different strategy for the 300 WM. The 11 twist isn't fast enough to stabilize the high BC bullets currently offered for long range hunters. The 210 was a hard combo to beat 10 years ago, but it pales in comparison to the increasingly popular combination of the Berger 215 or Hornady 212 ELD-X at 2900+ fps, both of which require at least a 10 twist for optimal performance.

IMO you missed an opportunity to crash into the market with a 9 twist 300 WM.
 
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#132
Glen Seekins said:
Guess I need to get some new bullets and play with 10 twist, it's not too late :)
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Cool. I'm really excited about the Havak and I absolutely want you to succeed with this lineup and based on what I see, you're well on your way. I find that the 10 twist is adequate for the 215s although Berger states that I'm losing BC because I'm below 1.5 gyroscopic stability at my elevation. A 9 twist may be a bit specialized, but it will appeal to many LRH guys as an option that they cannot otherwise obtain from a factory offering, which may be a valid reason to offer it.



 
#133
Glen Seekins said:
Guess I need to get some new bullets and play with 10 twist, it's not too late :)
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As long as you're going to tumble down the twist rate rabbit hole Glen, I do think you should consider the 9" twist. At least spin one up and play with it.

I put a 9" twist in my 300 Norma to run bigger bullets. I would have gotten an 8" if Proof offered one in carbon. There is a very good reason these calibers are trending towards faster twist rates.

Bummed I'm not shooting your match this year. Hope you guys have fun.
 
#134
Well I must have not had enough monster drink the day I decided 11 twist...10 it is on the 300wm and we will find the sweet spot for throats length that shoots factory ammo great but also let's you load longer OAL to gain some capacity back. The mag length will allow more than you'll ever need
 
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#136
Glen Seekins said:
Well I must have not had enough monster drink the day I decided 11 twist...10 it is on the 300wm and we will find the sweet spot for throats length that shoots factory ammo great but also let's you load longer OAL to gain some capacity back. The mag length will allow more than you'll ever need
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Any idea on when the havak actions them selves will start shipping?. I assume as soon as the rifle orders are fulfilled, also will the tactical model have any changes to the action?
 
#138
Just in case anyone was wondering about shooting small primers in 6.5 creedmoor, I can confirm they shoot great with no cratering. Primers from Lapua brass look just as good as large primers from factory ammo. No bushing/pin turning required.
 
#139
I have a 6.5 PRC backordered, can't wait to get this rifle and put it through the paces. I plan to run the 155gr Bergers, once available, but will run 147 ELD's for now. This will be strictly a long range hunting rifle, no competitions with it, except maybe a "hunter class" in the NALRSA next year.
 
#140
I picked up my Havak 6.5 Creedmoor yesterday, took it home and cleaned it up, adjusted a little weight off the Timney trigger, and mounted a VX-5HD 3-15x44. After an initial one round sight in at 25 yards I proceeded to print two different 4 shot groups measuring ~.3 MOA at 100 yards with Hornady 143 ELD-X Precision Hunter factory ammunition. Next, I fired 5 shots across the Magneto Speed to collect velocity data. The average velocity of the 143s at 15*F was 2670 fps with a 14 fps ES out of the 24" barrel. I fully expect it to speed up to advertised velocity after a few more rounds through the barrel and as the weather warms up.

For all you guys sitting on the fence or waiting for reviews on the Havak, consider this review "extremely positive". It is definitely worth it's price tag.
 
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#143
Did some load development yesterday with 140 Berger Elite Hunters, RL 16, Lapua brass, and CCi 450 primers. I’ve used a similar load in several different rifles, so I had an idea of where to start and ran the OCW in .2 increments. Also had really good luck at .040” jump with this bullet, so started there. Started seeing pressure signs at 42.0 so did not shoot 42.2.

Average velocities were as follows:

41.2 - 2755
41.4 - 2774
41.6 - 2797
41.8 - 2810
42.0 - 2828

The aiming dots are 1”, so virtually all groups were around 1/2” @ 100 yards.

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#146
A little late to the game on this post however I am really interested in the Havak rifle. I called my closest Cabels yesterday (Buffalo) and they had no idea nor had ever heard of the Havak. Does anyone know if they are being sold at a limited set of locations?
 
#147
Josh0369 said:
A little late to the game on this post however I am really interested in the Havak rifle. I called my closest Cabels yesterday (Buffalo) and they had no idea nor had ever heard of the Havak. Does anyone know if they are being sold at a limited set of locations?
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you need to lower your expectation for Cabelas if you think one of their gun counter associates would know anything about a new precision rifle they might be carrying in the future... Even if they were half competent or kept up with new releases of firearms, they most likely are not given knowledge of what is coming down the pipeline.
 
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