We'll just agree to disagree on this.
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Shooting 50bmg/other braked rifles, TBI and tinnitus
- Thread starter ARKEMAXUS
- Start date
I have tinnitus but I seriously doubt it is from the .50. More likely the T55/54 that fired the main gun next to me in Baghdad, the RPG, mortars, 107 rockets, DSHK, ZPU-1, my 240 gunner and some guys that wanted to play. I almost forgot my cannon (yes, I have a cannon).
I used to work with a guy who wouldn't wear any ear pro. Young and macho, just back from Afghanistan. "It doesn't bother me." I would tell him whether you think it "bothers you" or not is irrelevant, it's doing damage to your ears (or worse). (This was 8 hours of rifle fire a day.)
What you think or "feel" has no relevance on physics and human biology. PIus, id tell him, you're not going to be 23 forever.
What you think or "feel" has no relevance on physics and human biology. PIus, id tell him, you're not going to be 23 forever.
I'm beginning to notice that it doesn't take much white noise to start wrecking conversations. Tinnitus for me comes and goes, usually in the form of one ear or the other getting the volume turned down to "3" then ringing for a few seconds every few days to several weeks.
There was a lot of M4, M240, AT-4, M203, etc... action along the way-- namely AT-4's and SMAWs that hurt the most. At best I had plugs half-way in for that stuff. I'm pretty good about wearing muffs for anything unsuppressed anymore... I probably should do more with suppressed stuff.....
Anyway, what I really notice now with the big stuff is that recoil and blast, even doubled up, gives me a headache in short order. .416's, .50's, even magnum hunting rifles just aren't fun anymore.
There was a lot of M4, M240, AT-4, M203, etc... action along the way-- namely AT-4's and SMAWs that hurt the most. At best I had plugs half-way in for that stuff. I'm pretty good about wearing muffs for anything unsuppressed anymore... I probably should do more with suppressed stuff.....
Anyway, what I really notice now with the big stuff is that recoil and blast, even doubled up, gives me a headache in short order. .416's, .50's, even magnum hunting rifles just aren't fun anymore.
Sounds like a lot of 50 haters around here... I though this was snipers hide, not diapershide.
Ive been shooting 50’s for over 10 years now. 1000yd completion where you lay on the line next to your buddy and fire during a match, to elr, to playing around busting pumpkins with my 20” 50. Plugs and muffs are your friend. I’ve noticed more hearing issues after a prs match with a brake and some stupid tube to shoot through than a day of shooting 50. Probably cause one takes the 50 serious and wears double ear pro and keeps your mouth shut when running the big gun. I’ve switched to a suppressor for prs to mitigate the concussion when in tight stages. I’ve got a new can for the 50 with a brake on the end of it. Should be picking that up over Easter hopefully. I’ll report back on it and how it effects recoil. My k&p and Armalite brakes are the best there is. Even the short gun is a tame one to shoot.
Ive been shooting 50’s for over 10 years now. 1000yd completion where you lay on the line next to your buddy and fire during a match, to elr, to playing around busting pumpkins with my 20” 50. Plugs and muffs are your friend. I’ve noticed more hearing issues after a prs match with a brake and some stupid tube to shoot through than a day of shooting 50. Probably cause one takes the 50 serious and wears double ear pro and keeps your mouth shut when running the big gun. I’ve switched to a suppressor for prs to mitigate the concussion when in tight stages. I’ve got a new can for the 50 with a brake on the end of it. Should be picking that up over Easter hopefully. I’ll report back on it and how it effects recoil. My k&p and Armalite brakes are the best there is. Even the short gun is a tame one to shoot.
Guys seem to be missing the point , that there’s more to it than just sound and its affect on their ears.
Like a lot of the drug users I’ve known throughout my life, if it’s scrambling your brains you’re probably not going to know it.
Like a lot of the drug users I’ve known throughout my life, if it’s scrambling your brains you’re probably not going to know it.
This is why so many are moving to suppressors for everything else, the shockwave from the blast will cause bone conduction of the vibrations to damage your ears, not to mention the ill effects on your brain and eyes.
Except on the big stuff without that brake it is brutal to shoot (the suppressors don't do anything for the recoil), so that's why most still have to use a brake, unless you go with something like Barrett and Elite Iron are doing where you have a large volume suppressor and then have a brake on the end of the suppressor to help a bit with the recoil. But those are $$$$
Better performance and they have good hearing protection?
Not sure about a 50, but have brakes on everything from 223-30cals and I like them.
My MSAs have done a good job with noise and I also have some silicone ear plugs kicking around my range bag just in case.
TBI? I’d have to see some studies to buy off on that one, that’s smells a little like fudlore
I don't know about causing a TBI, but I do have a good friend who's had a TBI and he's WAY worse off than me as far as headaches and sensitivity to blast/recoil.
I don't think it's necessarily isolated to the big stuff, either. I've RO'd 3-gun matches and being in the vicinity of all those braked shots for 2 days will make you feel dumber than you really are. I think... LOL
I don't think it's necessarily isolated to the big stuff, either. I've RO'd 3-gun matches and being in the vicinity of all those braked shots for 2 days will make you feel dumber than you really are. I think... LOL
I have an Armalite 50 (with a huge ass brake) and the recoil is less than that some of my WWII rifles and my FTR rifle. That said, the muzzle blast is brutal and why I wear ski goggles and double up on plugs and muffs. If I do that, no problem.
Do what you want, but hearing loss is permanent, so I’d rather shoot a gun I can handle, instead of use a brake that causes irreparable damage. Especialy 223-6.5mm. Really?
Protecting Warfighters from Blast Injury
Developing strong, pragmatic and principled national security and defense policies.
www.cnas.org
Don’t Go Deaf — Understand Risks of Concussive Hearing Loss « Daily Bulletin
Did you know you can damage your hearing even if you are wearing the best hearing protection available? Well, have you ever heard of concussion (or concussive) hearing loss? There is no amount of anything you can put in or over your ears to protect you from concussion loss.
Do what you want, but hearing loss is permanent, so I’d rather shoot a gun I can handle, instead of use a brake that causes irreparable damage. Especialy 223-6.5mm. Really?
Protecting Warfighters from Blast Injury
Developing strong, pragmatic and principled national security and defense policies.Don’t Go Deaf — Understand Risks of Concussive Hearing Loss « Daily Bulletin
Did you know you can damage your hearing even if you are wearing the best hearing protection available? Well, have you ever heard of concussion (or concussive) hearing loss? There is no amount of anything you can put in or over your ears to protect you from concussion loss.bulletin.accurateshooter.com
I do all sorts of loud shit, but with good hearing protection, it’s all good, I have noticed no issues with my brakes using my MSA muffs.
Just don’t be cheap on hearing protection.
Never shot a suppressed .50, but shot a suppressed .375 cheytac (had a pistol suppressor on it that was rated for it), and that was the most miserable thing I've ever shot.
Probably similar depending on the weight.
I shot a pretty heavy AI AW50 that was suppressed at one of the MG shoot days.
Every time you pulled the trigger it was like a mule kicked you.
I'm not sure I saw anyone including the ROs willing to go more than about 4 shots.
My SHTF-50 recoils like a 12 ga shotgun. Just enough to let you know it's there, but not something that jars your teeth loose after every shot.
I have tinnitus, and wear double ear pro shooting everything (except .22lr).
I do everything I can to protect my hearing, that means no shooting .50 bmg for me. Sorry, tinnitus is easily one of the worst conditions a person can be afflicted with. Many have eaten the end of a barrel because of it. Not shooting a .50 or even being around one when fired is a very easy decision for me to make.
I do everything I can to protect my hearing, that means no shooting .50 bmg for me. Sorry, tinnitus is easily one of the worst conditions a person can be afflicted with. Many have eaten the end of a barrel because of it. Not shooting a .50 or even being around one when fired is a very easy decision for me to make.
I agree with you, ear pro is not something to take lightly. My point is that no matter what ear pro you use, no matter how good, there is NOTHING you can do to stop concussive hearing loss (bone conduction) except to reduce the source volume. Obviously the severity depends on the environment - structures, walls, rate of fire, SBRs, 50s etc. I just wish more shooters were aware of the damage you can sustain even with good ear pro. The PRS crowd loves putting huge loud brakes on tiny 6mms. This is why I hate brakes and will never use one again.
Well, if you ever try taking that brake off and screwing on a standard suppressor and touching off some rounds, You'll understand what I mean by a level of recoil that will rock your world and not in the nice way.
Did a anyone ever make a study, or just log any of this force, be interesting to see the difference and compare to something known to cause damage.
WHAT? :lol: Machinist for 29 years (nothing like out of the blue chatter to put the hurting on the ears foamies or not!) plus shooting = ringing all the time. Hell I've notice these days that when I'm stalking fluff rats that certain song bird calls eleicit a throbbing sensation in my right ear. Not pleasant and I need a white noise machine to sleep at night. Quiets the crickets in my head...
As far as brakes go I've noticed there is a "Cone of Silence" (Yeah, I'm old
) on my .338 (Area 419 Sidewinder) and if I am outside of it the effect of the blast is simular to getting hit in the face with a feather pillow... That has a cinder block in it! Even when shooting that 30lb beast (recoi lis like a .308) in the relative quiet of the cone my last outing (100 rounds) left me wondering why I had a headache and wanted a nap. Semi- concussed me thinks. It runs a Hybrid 46 with a bravo anchor brake these days.
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I am running an Armalite AR50 brake on my rifle. Very effective brake for managing recoil! If you are directly behind the rifle it isn't so bad. If you are off to the side it is pretty brutal.
First day I shot my 50 was at Tac Pro with the Dallas Tribe from Biggerhammer. I put 80 rounds through that rifle shooting Talon remanufactured .50 ball. I had to clean and loctite the turrets, clean and loctite the rings twice (didn't get the grease off them the first time so it didn't hold, and the rings weren't the greatest at that time, I have since upgraded). But, 80 rounds in a go was a lot, especially with that first muzzle brake that wasn't very effective.
My old BN CDR loved that fifty and had my bring it out to a range one time. He would raise the E-types at around 1500m and have me drop them. It was a lot of fun for about 20 rounds, and then it started to get to me. Every time I would drop them he would have the tower operator raise them back up and say "do it again". I eventually convinced a couple of the scouts to give it a go. They would only shot one or two rounds.
Army did some studies to measure TBI. But I think it focused more on IED's and larger weapons like the Carl G 84mm recoilless.
I had a .50 benchrest rifle built on a McBros action and even at 49 pounds the brake gave me a headache on its own. Recoil can cause concussions too. I shot my lightweight .500 a-square multiple times in rapid succession (10 lbs with scope) on an elk hunt, and was diagnosed with a concussion afterward. After my Army TBI’s, I’m going 100% suppressed. That said, do you guys know where a .375 CheyTac falls in that spectrum of recoil and blast? I want to replace the capability I sold with my .50. But, I also want to be there for my kids and need to avoid more TBI’s.
How far do you wan to shoot?
That's the question.
For most folks .300NM is the perfect sweet spot between accuracy at a decent distance and recoil.
I agree ... 300-NM is terrific for LR and ELR shooting ... 1-mile (plus) hits shouldn't be a problem with the right ballistics. Probably not recommended unless you do precision reloading. Factory ammo is expensive, and likely won't give you the results you're looking for.
They make .50 BMG rated suppressors that you could use on a .375 CT if I am correct if that is the route you are looking at going.
Recoil can be stout but the muzzle blast is the threat you are concerned about if I am correct. There is another thread around here, in that thread a Soldier that tested the dangers of muzzle blast wrote about it.
I might have misread it but I don't think I did.
I might have misread it but I don't think I did.
The Recoil will scramble your brain just the same.
If you have to shoot the big stuff, and are worried about your brain, have a massive suppressor and a 50 pound+ gun
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Practically, I’m thinking I want something to handle elk sized game with over 1500lbs of energy and 90% hit probability at 1K. Not that I plan to shoot that far on game unless I’m extremely confident in how the variables are accounted for (and the game is very stationary). Aside from that, it would be practicing low probability shots at my 700 yard range, so it would still be enjoyable.
@rustyinbend is probably on the money with the .300 NM suggestion. That would let me have recoil and blast at a non-damaging level, and still have a packable rifle system. @W54/XM-388 pointed out my only route to a safe CheyTac pretty accurately I think
Probably going to pursue a .300 Norma, I’m thinking desert Tech. Compact size, suppressed, is kind of what I’m prioritizing after accuracy and safety of use.
Practically, I’m thinking I want something to handle elk sized game with over 1500lbs of energy and 90% hit probability at 1K. Not that I plan to shoot that far on game unless I’m extremely confident in how the variables are accounted for (and the game is very stationary). Aside from that, it would be practicing low probability shots at my 700 yard range, so it would still be enjoyable.
@rustyinbend is probably on the money with the .300 NM suggestion. That would let me have recoil and blast at a non-damaging level, and still have a packable rifle system. @W54/XM-388 pointed out my only route to a safe CheyTac pretty accurately I think
Probably going to pursue a .300 Norma, I’m thinking desert Tech. Compact size, suppressed, is kind of what I’m prioritizing after accuracy and safety of use.
Agree 100%. We have a .50BMG (Tac 50) at work and shooting that thing with the suppressor is not pleasant, especially prone. Much more manageable with the brake but that also has it's drawbacks.
That’s where they got the firing schedule protocol for the 84mm Gustav. I was an AG for a training cycle and deployment and a gun team leader with one for another training cycle and deployment.
100% it’s contributed to my tinnitus and probably other shit.
You’re only supposed to fire or AG 4 total HE rounds per DAY. At our ranges we’d do upwards of 15-20 a day. You’re not even worried about your ears at that rate. We’d wake up the next day and every muscle in your body would be sore.
One of our gunners got sick from it and probably had a mild concussion/TBI. Holding your nuts and opening your mouth did help a little but it rang your bell pretty hard.
But a 7.5lb rifle shell will do that.
Are you fucking serious? Ever heard of ear plugs and muffs?
Never invite the man into your life
You can still get permanent damage and possibly even TBI while using a brake with ear pro. And I hate to break it to you but the man already has all the info you give over druing the background check. The real crime is that suppressors should be viewed as an accessory just like a brake or any other bolt on part.
Perhaps you have never seen the studies and research done, but the blast and noise from a muzzle break, can, depending on the exact details cause a lot of hearing damage through bone conduction from your skull / mouth cavity, to your inner ear.
The big guns can also cause brain injury from the shockwave as well as other issues from the blast of the brake.
That being said, excessive recoil even if "quiet" can also cause damage to your body in a number of different ways.
When shooting the big boys, weight is your friend, as much of it as you can put on your rifle.
Then a really good suppressor is also a must.
Also know the limits of your body and also do you have to have xxx to hit where you want at the distance you want?
I had a .375 allen magnum that weighed in at 19lbs that could push a 350smk to 3300fps and suppressed it was absolutely unbearable to shoot more than 8 rounds. It was pushing 144grains of RE33. The recoil with brake was fine but super loud/concussive. Suppressor made it much better but recoil became unbearable. Honestly I think the limit suppressed is 338 lapua.
I was shooting a braked 6mm, 300 WM, and a 338 LMAI today. I wore plugs and muffs, and there is still a ringing in my ears. Not sure about how loud the TV volume on the baseball game., as the Mrs. is at a group dinner tonight. Is triple hearing protection an option?
I was using Winchester folding muffs and HDX plugs from Home Depot.
I have a set of Howard Leights with aftermarket gel cups but they aren't in my range box currently. (MIA)
I have a set of Howard Leights with aftermarket gel cups but they aren't in my range box currently. (MIA)
HDX Disposable Earplugs NRR 32 (50-Pack) REP501 - The Home Depot
Soft and easy to roll for positive insertion and removal. Disposable, soft polyurethane foam, 100% PVC free. Contoured, high-rebound foam for a more secure fit. Sound absorption level: 32dB NRR.
www.homedepot.com
The cylinder shaped foam ones requires a lot of care to fully insert and make sure they stay seated. I personally prefer the tapered ones like the MAX for disposables.I was using Winchester folding muffs and HDX plugs from Home Depot.
I have a set of Howard Leights with aftermarket gel cups but they aren't in my range box currently. (MIA)
HDX Disposable Earplugs NRR 32 (50-Pack) REP501 - The Home Depot
Soft and easy to roll for positive insertion and removal. Disposable, soft polyurethane foam, 100% PVC free. Contoured, high-rebound foam for a more secure fit. Sound absorption level: 32dB NRR.www.homedepot.com
You might investigate a pair of fitted plugs made for this use:
PRO Impulse Custom Earplugs
FOR FIREARMS AND IMPULSE NOISE The PRO Impulse is designed to protect against gunfire, artillery noise and impulse sounds such as nail guns and riveting. Triggered by impulse sounds, the PRO Impulse compresses impulse noises of 130dB or more while also allowing in ambient sound and conversation...
1of1custom.com
If you think those are too expensive, price out hearing aids as a comparison.
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