I generally hate buying things right before the SHOT show because I know there's a good chance something newer and shinier will be released. With SHOT coming up in a few months, I wanted to know what you guys expect to see as far as scopes go. I'm considering holding out on a Mk5 3-18 in hopes for a 3-18 AMG
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Rifle Scopes SHOT Show 2019 Releases
- Thread starter derk
- Start date
Things I'd like to see.
Updated Vortex Razor and/or Athlon Cronus to compete with the Nightforce 7-35.
More ultra short options to compete with the EOTech 5-25.
ARC optimized bolt action M10 mount - Something similar to the Zero Delta static mounts, but with the awesome ARC split ring design.
Updated Vortex Razor and/or Athlon Cronus to compete with the Nightforce 7-35.
More ultra short options to compete with the EOTech 5-25.
ARC optimized bolt action M10 mount - Something similar to the Zero Delta static mounts, but with the awesome ARC split ring design.
derk, don't hold your breath, it is doubtful that Vortex will release any new AMG scope in 2019 and even if they did, I believe it took over a year for Vortex to get the AMG 6-24 orders to settle down before they were widely available. Also, it is doubtful the AMG line will show anything other than a 4x erector anytime soon, maybe a 4-16 or 4.5-18 at best is what we'd see. Of course, I do not have inside information, this is only speculation based on the information I have obtained. That being said, would absolutely love to see a lightweight 3-18 or 4-20 from the AMG group! Don't ever let the "possibility" of a scope hinder you from purchasing a scope that actually exists if you feel it will help you. If you buy from one of the Hide Dealers you will usually get a great price and if it's a hot item scope (like the Mark 5HD line) then even if you do decide to sell for another option you should not lose much.
I am not expecting much from SHOT 2019 in regard to scopes that will fill a niche that doesn't already exist, sure we'll see some new scopes from manufacturers. Maybe an XTR III line from Burris with upgraded glass and SCR type Christmas tree reticle, hopefully the 3-21 FFP Hunter series that Schmidt & Bender teased us with the tiger stripes at the 2018 shot, maybe a Minox lightweight ZP5 line. My hope is that more manufacturers will strive to find ways to reduce weight while increasing optical quality and erector range, more lightweight 5x-6x magnification long range scopes would be great. Would love to see more manufacturers adopt the 4-20 range of scopes - a Vortex PST II 4-20 would be a great "budget" option that fills the gap between the 3-15 and 5-25, if Burris can do it why not Vortex. Be fantastic to see Steiner/Burris, Nightforce and Leupold come out with a Christmas tree mil reticle similar to MR4, SKMR3 and Gen 3XR.
Vortex are expected to release at least one new reticle for the Razor HD.
Meh, I don't really see folk calling for a new reticle in the Razor line up.
Unless it weights about 10oz less than the current offerings.
On the other hand, I'd like to see an Xmas tree reticle option on the Leupold Mark 5HD, three grid options but no tree seems a bit daft. That and illumination for all models with no price hike. Dreams are free, I know.
Agree with wjm308, more options in the 4-20 range would be good, and whilst I'd love to see new models of the AMG I don't see it happening in 2019.
Other than a few minor improvements, the optics market has so many great options at the moment there's hardly anything left wanting. Only thing holding me back is my bank balance.
This pretty much sums up what I think too, the SKMR3/MR4/EBR7b seem to be the most popular reticles and Leupold and co really need to jump on board.
Thinking about it more lightweight and/or hunting scopes that are FFP and MIL would be great also, other than the AMG there isn't many options
I don't like that 90% of scopes that are 30mm tubes are SFP and no MIL option, really don't want to jump up to a 34mm/35mm on a rifle that is used for hunting.
If Leupold made a VX5hd 4-20x50 FFP with the Impact 29 reticle (or similar but MIL) I'd by three of them.
I'd like to see a NF ATACR 5-25 available with the low profile, locking turrets that are on the 4-16 F1's .
I'd really like to see more offerings for a DMR role. Something that could compete with USO 1.8-10x but lighter weight. I definitely could see more of that coming in the next few years now that there are a lot of quality 1-8x out there now.
Leupold and Nightforce need to move forward 10 years on reticle design. Their current offerings make them non starters for me. TT figured this out.
I have been shopping for glass for my DMR style AR's. There is remarkably little in 30oz or less glass with a modern reticle design in premium offerings. Mk5hd (stupid reticle), and NF 4-16X (stupid reticle), S&B ultra short (stupid reticle). If Vortex releases a 3-18 AMG it would be fantastic. If Minox released their ZP5 3-15 with an MR4 reticle - it'd be fantastic. Everyone shoots AR's these days. What is with mfg not seeing this trend? Kahles seems the only one who released a scope with a good reticle, ultra short, lighter weight.
Also - If you REALLY wanted to make the ultimate DMR optic, someone would release an extremely light but robust 3-18x with 44mm obj, MR4 or EBR2C style reticle, and provisions to wear an aimpoint T2 45* offset in the most integrated design possible. I think I'd prefer this to an LPVO offering quite honestly because you'd gain adjustable parallax compared to the LPVO route.
I have been shopping for glass for my DMR style AR's. There is remarkably little in 30oz or less glass with a modern reticle design in premium offerings. Mk5hd (stupid reticle), and NF 4-16X (stupid reticle), S&B ultra short (stupid reticle). If Vortex releases a 3-18 AMG it would be fantastic. If Minox released their ZP5 3-15 with an MR4 reticle - it'd be fantastic. Everyone shoots AR's these days. What is with mfg not seeing this trend? Kahles seems the only one who released a scope with a good reticle, ultra short, lighter weight.
Also - If you REALLY wanted to make the ultimate DMR optic, someone would release an extremely light but robust 3-18x with 44mm obj, MR4 or EBR2C style reticle, and provisions to wear an aimpoint T2 45* offset in the most integrated design possible. I think I'd prefer this to an LPVO offering quite honestly because you'd gain adjustable parallax compared to the LPVO route.
People have been asking for the ebr7b reticle in the gen 2 since the reticle was released.......
Leupold needs something like this badly. The only FFP option below the Mark 5HD is the VX-3i LRP, and most people wrote that off as soon as it was released. They're missing out the white hot ~$1k FFP market. I feel like 2-10x and 3-15x FFP versions of the VX-5HD would sell pretty well if it's $1200 or so and includes the CDS-ZL2 turrets.
It's also crazy to me that they have a really well thought out tree reticle in MOA (the Impact series), but their only MIL option (CCH) is an obvious Horus knockoff.
I think a 4-16 AMG, 44 or 50mm objective, shorter package (doesn't have to be an ultra short, just shorter than the 6-24). Naturally making it shorter would decrease weight, so maybe 25 ounces or less? They'd sell like crazy.
For what is worth, I really like XT II 2-10x42 in this role and if Burris manages to add a simple tree reticle to it, I'll be the first in line to get one.
ILya
I agree. I know they are planning something else for the AMG line, but I have no insight on what and when it will be released.
AMG 6-24x50 is one of my favourite scopes out there (other than the reticle) and really the only non-TT high end scope that easily made it to my list of recommendations so far (with Minox being the honorable mention).
ILya
I think its pretty funny that a lot of us want the same scope (lightweight / ultrashort 3-18-ish with good reticle) but there's a distinct lack of said scopes in the market. At the company I work for, I browse through the pistol forums daily to see what people are asking for. Any optic MFG reps on the hide?
I like most of it, but not all the hashes and numbers on the primary horizontal line. They are too big and the whole thing is too busy. The primary aiming point is not distinct enough. The new TT reticle (Gen 3 XR) does this well, I think. Same for the LRD-1T in my Delta Stryker HD.
There are many good reticle out there and this is a very personal choice. Aside from the two I mentioned above, I like MR4, DevL, APRS, APLR3, EBR-2C, etc.
That having been said, my issues with EBR-7B are not significant enough to prevent me from recommending it.
ILya
A few people at the companies I know are aware of what is happening here. They are mostly not allowed to post directly, but if I think there is something worthwhile, I try to ping them and re-enforce the point.
ILya
I do wish they would move the numbers from directly next to the vertical post to outside of the horizontal line. So the "1" for 1 mil down is out to the right and/or left of of the corresponding horizontal line instead of right next to the vertical post. Like where Kahles puts them in the SKMR3.
I doubt it will happen but I would like to see a Christmas tree version of the NF MIL-C or at least an acknowledgment that it is in the plans. Lots of disagreement that it will ever happen due to the acquisition of HORUS
After finally getting a teeny, tiny bit of time behind a 7-35x ATACR with Mil-C at a recent match, I'll admit that I've been keeping tabs on the 5-25x ATACR Mil-C PX posts out the corner of my eye, as it were. The 7-35x is definitely out of my budget, but a used 5-25x could be done in the somewhat near future. While there are other options that I'd rank above it, the Mil-C finally has me interested in giving NightForce a try. If they released an uncluttered tree type reticle based off the Mil-C? Well, I think I'd finally have an NF in the safe after years of wanting one but never really liking the reticle options they have.
Until then, the AMG (or a Kahles or Minox, if I came across some extra mad money) has my highest interest. I enjoy my Bushnells well enough that an optics upgrade isn't a priority for me, though.
I'm wishing for any one of the top-manufactures to release a lightweight 1-8x or 1-10x, or even a a 1.5-12x with a 36mm to 42mm objective for us hunters.
I just think it odd that such great glass and features are plagued by sub optimal reticles, the part of the scope formula which SEEMS the easiest to get right.
I know horus has IP of their reticles - but hell I don't think most of us on this forum need or want the Horus offerings in their H59/Tremor3 form factor. Way too much going on with those, all I want is very well defined small .2 mil hold markings (dot prefered, SKMR style acceptable as well) and an open center with a dot. Seems this is the trend. Plenty of great scopes out there currently - just stuff in a slightly tweaked variation (copyright infringement) of what's already available and profit. I'm looking at you Minox, NF, Leupold, S&B, TT, etc etc.
I know horus has IP of their reticles - but hell I don't think most of us on this forum need or want the Horus offerings in their H59/Tremor3 form factor. Way too much going on with those, all I want is very well defined small .2 mil hold markings (dot prefered, SKMR style acceptable as well) and an open center with a dot. Seems this is the trend. Plenty of great scopes out there currently - just stuff in a slightly tweaked variation (copyright infringement) of what's already available and profit. I'm looking at you Minox, NF, Leupold, S&B, TT, etc etc.
I'm all for the "smart" scopes as long as they still are mechanical, so aren't reliant on the electronics, the electronics just boost functionality. The Revic, to me, pulled this off great. Electronics die, and it still works like any mechanical scope. That reticle though... not so much.
Interesting to know.
Leupold we need a VX5hd FFP, you can even call it VX5hd LRP to match up with the VX3i naming conventions.
A 3-15x44 or 4-20x50 with a MIL Impact style reticle for around $1200 would go down a treat I think, stick with the 30mm tube and the Zero Lock 2 turret and capped windage.
EDIT: if the parallax goes down to 25yards then I can put one on all my rifles!
Could be wrong but I feel like the $1200 market is flooded, I think they knocked it out of the park with with the mk5 3.6-18 but we'll just have to wait and see how theu hold up.
Need to add more illumination options and not charge and arm and a leg for it. I don't use the illumination much, but for a hunting gun, it really helps with a FFP on low power or late afternoon.
There are certainly a lot of options, but everything is pretty heavy and more aimed towards 'Tactical' rather than hunting, only scope that's aimed towards hunting was the Bushnell LRHS.
I have a VX5hd 3-15x44 and absolutely love it; turrets, glass, reticle, weight and size, just think an FFP version would make a nice addition, along with a bump in mag range to 4-20.
No idea how difficult it is to make an FFP version of an SFP scope, but Vortex offers the PST on both options with $100 difference, so it's certainly not impossible..
Agree 100%. I personally don't see being able to exploit the advantages offered by a 34mm tube in a lower power scope oriented toward close-to-medium range weapon's systems. Save the weight
Lightweight is the only real crux holding down the tactical market as far as ultra shorts are concerned. There are technically a decent bit now. I mean Vortex Gen II 3-18, K318i, Schmidts, ATACR, MK5, Vudu 5-25, and ZCO is on the way. Only one of those fills the niche of being moderately light and that's the mark 5. Though the hunting market is not devoid of these as far as weight is concerned they're just SFP and majority MOA.
Despite my love for ultra shorts the practicality of them only seems to really come into play if running thermal/NV clip-on. I think they're more aesthetically pleasing on short builds and do absolutely adore my K318i more so than the k525i. If it were lighter i'd argue that it fills that niche quite nicely at the moment, despite the hefty price. But yea i think a 4-16 AMG would have me putting one on the credit card faster than anything else i can think of at the moment especially if it is 25oz or lower. I'm with ILya on the EBR7-B too while i don't advocate copying the SKMR3 those 2/10th deviations on the horizontal of the EBR7-B are huge and on lower mag most definitely would be somewhat difficult to use to me all bunched together at the same height. They could change it up a bit to reduce the clutter and it would really compete with the SKMR3 which would give Kahles some serious competition in that regard. Regardless of glass preference the SKMR3 sales a megaton of Kahles optics and was my primary reason for going with them when it was all said and done.
Also agree on Leupold the MK5 already is establishing itself as a solid value but the reticle choice is severely lacking. A moderate tree reticle and it'd be hard to look away from Leupy for the money. Same goes for NF for me personally until the ATACR has a tree variant of the Mil-C i don't really have any interest despite really like the ATACR lineup.
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I used to look into tree reticles quite a bit and still have a use for them, but I’m curious......
Except for elr or shooters that mainly hold (probably using a Horus if that’s the case), how often are you guys using your tree?
With 6 and 6.5 being so popular, even on the occasional no dial stage, you’re pretty close to the vertical unless the wind is extreme.
I own skmr and Skmr3, and find myself using the skmr more often as I don’t find myself needing the tree.
Except for elr or shooters that mainly hold (probably using a Horus if that’s the case), how often are you guys using your tree?
With 6 and 6.5 being so popular, even on the occasional no dial stage, you’re pretty close to the vertical unless the wind is extreme.
I own skmr and Skmr3, and find myself using the skmr more often as I don’t find myself needing the tree.
It's specifically for that instance for me. I personally wouldn't use horus for ELR it's too damn thick IMHO. But ya practicing holdovers and holdover stages it's there if i need it, not too cluttered when i don't. Primary reason why i love the SKMR3.
I was shooting 1k in 45mph winds. It was like a 4 mil wind value! Even hit the steel more than I thought I would!
I'll second that motion for a light weight, mid range mag scope with Christmas tree, illuminated reticle, locking turrets. Quite a few scopes are close but nobody rang the bell yet. Like a 3-18 AMG or a lighter K318i or a MK5 with a decent reticle that is illuminated without breaking the bank..... that company would score the jackpot!
4 mil seems a little shy, that's more like a 24mph full value wind. But anyway I dont really use the tree on my reticle but i guess it doesn't get in the way.
There’s a thread needing your attention. Something about CA and dougebagery. It’s a good one.
It takes 2-3-4 seconds for the projectile to arrive at ELR distances. Plenty of time to lower the grid, then observe impact or dust signature in the free space in the upper half of the FOV with the H reticle, then onto measuring with .2's.
Thickness, being FFP and dialed down to mid mag range I prefer not having a thin-ish reticle.
