Member Link Up SHWW Group

[Bigwheels]

Re: SHWW Group

I will still be looking into a "magnum" match up in Mazama. There is more room up there for that kind of range. I wasn't planing on doing one in Acme this year anyway as the place has grown up a bunch. I'm also solo now for setting up any match, & don't really want/need to do that much work for everyone else to shoot. I don't compete against everyone else @ my matches because I see that as a conflict of interest of sorts. I set all the targets up, I know all the ranges, I know what the winds do up there better than anyone else as that's where I shoot all the time. As some of you have figured out. There is a TON of work involved in setting up a match. Especially where there are distances between stages like in Acme. I've had to clear a trail through the timber each yr for BSC, among other things.(probably about 40hrs work for each match)
As I've said before in regards to someone showing up with a 50 for my match. I'll let him shoot it if he carries it around from stage to stage all day. I'm betting no one will be up for that, but if I'm wrong OK. Jake, & I drilled some of my targets with my 300WM, & his 338Edge @ only 500yd without any problems.(other than having to wait for it to stop spinning to hit it again.)
So in a nutshell, yeah. I'm kind of tired of setting up matches, & RO'ing matches & not being allowed to shoot. But I was having fun shooting by myself before all this anyway. And will continue to do so.

 

[JC Steel]

Re: SHWW Group

I agree with everyone!!! LOL,

I am not sure if I was the top 308 shooter or not but if I was, can I get one of those signs!!! Actually I was the top lefty shoot as well right??? Can I get another one of those signs made for a lefty???

really I could care less about the caliber restrictions. I think of it like this:

There are already matches for 308, they are called service rifle matches or F class matches. So if you want to just shoot 308 with everyone else doing the same, go join one of those matches.

I really like the idea of having a overall budget, OPTICS included. Someone mentioned " I dont want to have to buy another scope just for this match" You my man hit it right on the head, and we don't want to buy another gun just for this match!!!! perfect words right there.


I think a budget comp would be pretty interesting and I am sure it would fill up all the spots quickly.

Say a limit of $1000 total set up. Retail value of the set up. If you got the gun for $300 but its a $1000 gun then you are good too. Total retail value of $1000.

because to be honest I feel its more unfair for all these guys to be shooting the $9,000 rifle set ups with S&B scopes compared to another guys Rem 700 SPS varmint. Doesn't matter what the caliber is.

Actually lets have an accuracy limitation. Your rifle can't shoot better than 1 MOA at 100 yards or its not allowed!! Sounds like a fun match.

Actually lets have a barrel contour limitation. Your rifle can't have over a .700 thick barrel.

It could go on and on. Men and ladies, lets leave it where its at and shoot what you bring. No limitations other than for safety reason which I am 100% for.

I hope everyone has a truly blessed day today. Let be grateful for what we have!

Thanks for reading,

Jake

 

[Unknown]

Re: SHWW Group

BigWheels has a valid point about the expense of building rifles just to be competitive in a match. Having to build rifles for matches puts us into an "arms race" rather than a test of our shooting skill.

I believe that shooting matches should test our skill at arms. Matches should not be a test of how fast we can run a 100 yard dash, or how fat our wallets are.
Anything we can do to get us closer to things that test ONLY our shooting skill is a good idea.

Perhaps having categories for shooters would alleviate most of these problems. IPSC and many other shooting venues even have categories for skill levels in addition to equipment. Perhaps the following categories would be helpful, while allowing everyone who wants to compete to have a fairly level playing field:

1. Bolt guns
A. 308/223
B. other calibers (non magnum)
2. Semi-auto
A. 308/223
B. other calibers (non magnum)

The problem with magnums is the damage they do to targets. This is both expensive, and dangerous. But I would really enjoy the chance to shoot my magnum at some steel plates in matches.
Perhaps allowing magnums to shoot only at targets that are further out would reduce the problems associated with this damage. Of course, this would require a different scoring system where magnums are only scored against other magnums.

Another option would be to find vendors willing to supply both rifles and ammo. This would have the match be very similar to checking rifles out of an armory. I participated in one match that did this, and shooters were allowed 3 shots to confirm zero prior to stepping to the firing line.

Having shooters supply rifles for a match like this would risk too much liability if anything were to happen to one of the rifles or shooters.

As this sport grows, rules will naturally grow. I think having categories like those suggested above would allow anyone interested to participate, and reduce the problems associated with an arms race. I don't like the idea of things that exclude people who are interested in shooting, if there is a way to solve these problems.

 

[JLR]

Re: SHWW Group

Unfortunately that's all part of putting on a match. I know full well how much time and effort it takes to put on a major match. It's all about how much time/effort you're willing to put into furthering the sport and creating opportunities for fellow shooters to test themselves.

My thoughts on you putting on a match AND shooting in it....go for it dude. Just take yourself out of the prize table. You'll still get the opportunity to see how you stack up against everyone else that way.

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

As AtOne volleyed... and many followed suit....

The competition is between your ears.

At the end of the day, you may gain inspiration from the way another performed... or you may discover a new tool, to put in your toolbox, by seeing the way another solved the same problem, that you found yourself approaching in a different way.

The problem of course, is putting one, small, pointy projectile, on another subjectively small object, at relatively great distance, successfully and repeatably...

In my own short experience, I have never finished a match, wishing one of the other shooters had done something different... it's the shortcomings of my own skill-set, equipment, nerves.... that play themselves back, over & over, on the ride home.... and usually every range day, until the next match reveals more of my own shortcomings... ....at which time of course, this vicious cycle repeats itself... pandoras box.... the rabbit hole.... whatever you want to call it.... It's cost me a lot of sleep.

It's never the guy down the line you blame when you hose the "easy shot"... it's the nut behind the bolt... at least, that's how I see it.

All of this said, I would happily shoot any match, that I had the equipment & time for... Jim's last 3 gun would be a prime example... I was a total fish out of water, grabbed the stuff I had, and went and had one of the best times I've had, behind a trigger.... the only guys that DIDN"T beat me that day, had broken shit!

...If your ego can't take it... I'd advise staying behind the keyboard.

It may be the injun, rather than the arrow..... but show me an injun worth his salt, with a quiver full of bent-dick arrows.....

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

And by the way...... <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fuck</span></span> getting a bunch of rules involved.... leave the rules to the squares at the square ranges.... this is a Fuckin' Pirate Ship..... Get the fuck on.... or learn to swim.

 

[akmike]

Re: SHWW Group

Everybody better shape up or Tribe's gonna keelhaul us

 

[mjh30]

Re: SHWW Group

Way to go Chad, let fly with the f-bombs, and you nailed it, I learn something everytime I shoot a match, my 308 consistently shoots better than me, I miss not the rifle, I look around at my fellow shooters and learn from them. Thanks to all of you, for always showing me something, even though you mightn't realise it. I am having fun and enjoying myself, to hell with the drama, look forward to seeing you all soon.

 

[SSSamurai]

Re: SHWW Group

I am with Chad on this one, and I'll use him as an example. I watched him shoot all day Saturday and it wasn't the rifle that won the match for him. He was the most consistent shooter out there that day.
I watched a sh*tstorm just like this one when the last Sniper Comp at Benning was announced, and they restricted everyone to firing M110s with issued M118LR. The instructors thought it would level the playing field, in the interest of seeing who are the better shooters. The counter argument came from units that issue 338s, 300s or whatever caliber and system that isn't a 110. Why would those competitors change to a different rifle and ballistics when they had made their choice already. It's actually counterproductive to train with something other than your issued/chosen primary system. The results.... nothing really changed, the SF guys dominated again.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: SHWW (ARR Pirate!) Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And by the way...... <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fuck</span></span> getting a bunch of rules involved.... leave the rules to the squares at the square ranges.... this is a Fuckin' Pirate Ship..... Get the fuck on.... or learn to swim. </div></div>
Jeez, Chad, you don't have to beat around the bush with us. We're all friends here so don't be timid. Say what you mean!

 

[JC Steel]

Re: SHWW Group

All my guns shoot better then me. I have yet to pull the trigger exactly the way I wanted to and NOT hit the target. When I make a good shot the bullet usually goes where I want it to. It is when I pull the trigger to soon and the reticle is not on the target. Can I blame the rifle for that by chance??? didnt think so. Keep up the good shooting guys!! lets keep practicing with what we have available to us and keep getting better as a group.

 

[ranger1183]

Re: SHWW Group

btw, any SHWW member needing a kick ass .308, I have one for sale. SHWW folks always get a discount.

Steyr .308 Tactical Elite w/ Bushnell FFP 3-12

 

[Alan_H]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As AtOne volleyed... and many followed suit....

The competition is between your ears.

At the end of the day, you may gain inspiration from the way another performed... or you may discover a new tool, to put in your toolbox, by seeing the way another solved the same problem, that you found yourself approaching in a different way.

The problem of course, is putting one, small, pointy projectile, on another subjectively small object, at relatively great distance, successfully and repeatably...

In my own short experience, I have never finished a match, wishing one of the other shooters had done something different... it's the shortcomings of my own skill-set, equipment, nerves.... that play themselves back, over & over, on the ride home.... and usually every range day, until the next match reveals more of my own shortcomings... ....at which time of course, this vicious cycle repeats itself... pandoras box.... the rabbit hole.... whatever you want to call it.... It's cost me a lot of sleep.

It's never the guy down the line you blame when you hose the "easy shot"... it's the nut behind the bolt... at least, that's how I see it.

All of this said, I would happily shoot any match, that I had the equipment & time for... Jim's last 3 gun would be a prime example... I was a total fish out of water, grabbed the stuff I had, and went and had one of the best times I've had, behind a trigger.... the only guys that DIDN"T beat me that day, had broken shit!

...If your ego can't take it... I'd advise staying behind the keyboard.

It may by the injun, rather than the arrow..... but show me an injun worth his salt, with a quiver full of bent-dick arrows.....

</div></div>



preach on brotha!

 

[JLR]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And by the way...... <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fuck</span></span> getting a bunch of rules involved.... leave the rules to the squares at the square ranges.... this is a Fuckin' Pirate Ship..... Get the fuck on.... or learn to swim.</div></div>

ARRRRRRRRRRRR::ack::ack::RRRRRRRRRR!

My rules:
1. Shooter must be taller than rifle
2. Shooter must be no wider than rifle laying horizontal
***this one for ease of building props

3. Shooter must have thick skin and be prepared for repeated harassment, it's all in the name of fun!

What else should be added???

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

That first rule there must have created a lot of consternation between you and Jim.....

 

[JLR]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That first rule there must have created a lot of consternation between you and Jim.....

</div></div>

He is currently building another rifle......

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

.... Ahhh.... that literally just made me laugh out loud.

 

[1911fan]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donning flame suit......

Would that award be look like this??

HAHAHAHA....! </div></div>

LOL! I am SO making a T-shirt out of that.



1911fan

 

[Alan_H]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donning flame suit......

Would that award be look like this??

HAHAHAHA....! </div></div>

LOL! I am SO making a T-shirt out of that.



1911fan </div></div>



i think this one suits you better!

 

[JLR]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alan_H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...
i think this one suits you better!
</div></div>

Back to your tree hut Ewok!

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And by the way...... <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">Fuck</span></span> getting a bunch of rules involved.... leave the rules to the squares at the square ranges.... this is a Fuckin' Pirate Ship..... Get the fuck on.... or learn to swim.</div></div>

but i only doggy paddle!!

Oh and by the way after this shitstorm this will be the last time i publically ask questions, Next time I will just make the decisions and let you guys know the rules i come up with. You can voice your opinion by either signing up or not.

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-size: 20pt">If you don't like the way us as match directors set the matches up I whole heartedly encourage you to put on your own match with your own set of rules!!! So either get on the boat or start building your own because this pirate ship is ready to fucking sail!! Next stop findlay cup, fsc, kettle falls, because the members of team send it will be at all of these in full force!!</span></span>

 

[Alan_H]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alan_H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...
i think this one suits you better!
</div></div>

Back to your tree hut Ewok! </div></div>

im primarily a ground dweller, but have been known to climb a tree or two

 

[mjh30]

Re: SHWW Group

Scott, me and John are going to Kettle falls just for the pies afterwards.

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

Hang on a sec. Let's be clear here, you asked people if a 308 only match would be a deal-breaker and people responded. It may not have been what you wanted to hear, but nobody was out of line or anything. Of course you're free to do whatever you want with your matches, but don't ask for opinions and then get upset if people feel strongly about things and give their opinions.

 

[JLR]

Re: SHWW Group

Ah come on....this has been quite entertaining!!

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

Seriously though, if you really want to do an "even playing field" style match I think a reduced range .22 match would be a ton of fun!

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Market Garden</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hang on a sec. Let's be clear here, you asked people if a 308 only match would be a deal-breaker and people responded. It may not have been what you wanted to hear, but nobody was out of line or anything. Of course you're free to do whatever you want with your matches, but don't ask for opinions and then get upset if people feel strongly about things and give their opinions.</div></div>

Don't get the wrong impression I am damn sure not upset. I really just don't care nearly as much as the rest of you!! it takes ALOT to get me upset and i promise damn near nothing on here will get the job done, even if i can't get into a match because i am to tall. perfectly okay with match directors discriminating against whoever they want. There Match There Rules!

 

[mjh30]

Re: SHWW Group

Craig you must have read Scott's post wrong, its not upset not yet anyways.

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

Haha. I'm glad we're on the same page then. I know sometimes it's hard to really understand what people are trying to communicate when talking over the internet and typed text is all we have, and that can lead to people taking things the wrong way.

 

[mjh30]

Re: SHWW Group

I have a real old sign that says NINA, it means no Irish need apply, Scott if you get mad at me, you can borrow it.

 

[mjh30]

Re: SHWW Group

I could make you one like NMNA which means
NO MAGNUMS NEED APPLY

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

I'm personally a BIG fan of the .308!

Group Hug!

Seriously.... this is beautiful.

The fact that we can sit here and debate the virtues and the this's and the that's, of how STEEL FIELD MATCHES are run.... brings a tear to my eye. I started this thread just nearing three years ago.... simply hoping to find some other Billy-Bob-Shooter-Guy such as myself, that had a good place to shoot some long range steel.... I'd never done it before....

This kicks ass.

....now go kick rocks.

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

Awwwww Chad is making me all nostalgic. I went back to find my first post in this thread, and found it on page 2! I didn't even have my first bolt gun back from the gunsmith at that point. Everyone in here has come a long way since then.

 

[Pat M]

Re: SHWW Group

Should have seen Jim's eyes roll when i told him i could use my DPMS .260 in his match, if i turn the gasblock off and make it a charging handle bolt gun ,,,, he said "NO!"

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: SHWW Group

Hey I'm the 3rd post in this thread. I remember meeting Chad at a range, hiding a little 6" flapper in at rut at 600yds and then he went to town on it. I think I hit it maybe once...

Nostalgia rules.

 

[DIBBS]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I started this thread just nearing three years ago.... simply hoping to find some other Billy-Bob-Shooter-Guy such as myself, that had a good place to shoot some long range steel.... I'd never done it before....

This kicks ass.

....now go kick rocks. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">This Billy Bob Mountain Man likes to shoot rocks this time of year. Kick em when they're frozen to the ground and you may be sorry.

They do make nice informal targets, and if they have a flat face and if you're in the neighborhood it's relatively easy to spot your shots and make a correction if necessary.

I believe the shoot organizers can make whatever rules they would like, it's at their discretion. I'm just thankful that we have creative diabolical minds in the area that like to put these things together, and a damn active bunch of shooters. </span> Plain and simple, <span style="font-size: 26pt"> <span style="color: #000099">SHWW ROCKS!!!! </span> </span>

 

[Alan_H]

Re: SHWW Group

this ship has sailed

 

[*Nine]

Re: SHWW Group

Is that a forward positioned poop deck?

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

Alan.... that is niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice. We should put you in charge of T-shirt graphics.... Pat's got nuthin' on you!

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmonaxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey I'm the 3rd post in this thread. I remember meeting Chad at a range, hiding a little 6" flapper in at rut at 600yds and then he went to town on it. I think I hit it maybe once...

Nostalgia rules.
</div></div>

Heh.... shhhhh! That would get you the boot now! I deny any knowledge of that.... nor do I recall shooting that crappy ol' .308 5R.... or loading those old & unreliable 175 SMK's....

 

[Pat M]

Re: SHWW Group

Jolly Rogers on the shirts next time!

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

Arrr..... Pirate chicks....... aiyee mayteee.....

 

[AtOne]

Re: SHWW Group

Whats not to love about pirates

 

[Tribe]

Re: SHWW Group

The heck with Scott & Jim..... AtOne for Match Director!

 

[mac37]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And by the way...... Fuck getting a bunch of rules involved.... leave the rules to the squares at the square ranges.... this is a Fuckin' Pirate Ship..... Get the fuck on.... or learn to swim.
</div></div>

Well said!

The only limitation I would consider is magnums. It sucks walking 1000 yards in sagebrush, rocks and sand to reset a steel target that was blown off its base or hinges by a 300wm. If I remember, no quads off the trail in Ellensburg. It slows the match down as well. Otherwise, bring what you got.

 

[Daps!]

Re: SHWW Group

TSI's match last week was the first comp I've shot. With that being said the only person I signed up to compete against was me. Which is probably a good thing considering where I washed out in the standings. I can honestly say that because I was shooting .308 was not the reason I placed where I did. It was definitely a head spacing and timing issue between the ears. I like the idea of a top .308 shooter award, but I don't see the need to restrict the comp as a whole. Aside from the no magnum thing which I completely understand. If someone feels the need to go build whatever hot rig he/she can to give him/her an edge in the comp well then they are just prepared to take things to a level I'm not. None of the prizes on the table were going to support my family eating so I guess i just focus on the fun and self improvement aspect of it. (and marty's stories) Thanks again scott for putting this together,I had a blast and learned a lot. I hope to be able to attend another one someday after I get back in the country.

mike

 

[Jim the Plumber]

Re: SHWW Group

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tribe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The heck with Scott & Jim..... AtOne for Match Director! </div></div>
Well, guess no more helo fun for you with that attitude.
On a more serous note, how long did it take you to figure out how to change the font in your <span style="font-weight: bold">fuck </span> post?

 

[DrGiggles]

Re: SHWW Group

It does not matter to me what caliber is set. Its just great to be able to get out there and hit some steel and learn something new.

 

[Jim the Plumber]

Re: SHWW Group

On another note,I would like to thank Pearl and Laurel for the pictures posted from the match, I snuck in there on a couple which I was able to show my daughter.
It is refreshing to see more and more woman shooting in these matches. It would be great to have you shoot in the 2012 Findlay Cup!

 

[JC Steel]

Re: SHWW Group

Hey Scott, a few words for you sir,


I love the COF for this match! It was fast pasted and I enjoy that quite a bit. I loved the farthest stage. Having a time crunch with targets in multiple locations at different differences is exciting and finds a true shooter. I love it because it forces you to know your equipment and know how to navigate through the stage. Well done sir, that was your finest stage to date IMHO.

The truck stage was also great, moving to different platforms and shooting locations was difficult but doable.

My only piece of constructive advice would be this. On the stage where we used the table I would like to have seen a better built table. It can be still built very uneven so it wobbles but a better built table. I know the first people on the table had a little more stable of a platform to shoot from than the last group. I happened to be the group in the middle to use it so I could have cared none, but just a thought. I am only thinking on how to level the playing field throughout the entire day. Just to make it fair.

I love the run and gun stages as well. Going down the mountain and back up the valley is some tough work, My heart rate was going good. I would like to see another full circle like last year again, Man that was fun too!!! You have some great thoughts on stages.

Lastly, I really liked the KYL rack. it was super challenging. I found out that my limit was at the 3 rack before I missed!!! That was a great stage.

Honestly, you did a great job on this match, the prize table was very nice as well but I really just cared about being out with you guys and gals for a fun and challenging comp.

Thanks guys, I came home to a cranky wife and two little girls yelling"DADDY,DADDY". Life could not be better!!! Well I take that back but the Praise goes to the Lord.

Jake