Hunting & Fishing So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

[Dylan in AZ]

I really like the idea of a 22-250.

Ever since the big AWB scare started, 223 and 308 ammo has become pretty scarce where I live. I load my own but even the store where I work is having a hard time keeping reloading components in stock... So I feel that it would be a good idea to have rifle that, if necessary, I can pick up some hunting ammo off the shelves so at least I can go hunting. What I've noticed is that only common hunting cartridges stay in stock on the shelves... and that's what is pushing me towards 22-250 vs 243 for a dedicated yote rifle.

Now I know 243 can be a little rough on pelts which I do plan to keep, so maybe 22-250 is the way to go. Although I'm sure there are bullets available that are more fur friendly than the ones I see used most commonly.

Anyways, I was looking at rifle specs on many 22-250 factory rifles and I noticed that all of them have 1-14" twist rates which means I'm limited to the lighter bullets... A custom barrel is the remedy to that problem since I would like to be able to shoot the heavies, but I don't really want to buy a custom barrel for a brand new rifle.

I'm thinking of a Tikka T3 or a Winchester M70 but I can't decide if 22-250 is good enough for Coyotes out to 600 yards being restricted to 55 grain bullets. Would a 243 that can handle up to 95 grain class of bullets be a better choice? Or would it inevitably be too hard on pelts to salvage them?

Lastly, I apologize for being "that guy" who asks about one caliber vs. another, but in a dedicated Coyote rifle shooting out to 600 yards or so, would you experienced Yote hunters rather have a 22-250 with limited bullet choices, or a 243 with better bullet selection but more of a chance of ruining the pelts?


-Dylan

 

[bbear]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Realistically how many 600 yard shots do you plan on getting in a year? If you're going to use this gun strictly for coyotes and want to save pelts, go with the 250, it's also very capable of kill shots at 400 yds. If you plan on using this rifle for deer as well and think you'll be getting enough of those 600 yards shots that it makes sense then go with the 243 though pelt damage can be the shits at times.

 

[5spd]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

If I can drop a few coyotes a year that hang at 500-600 yards with my .223 & 50g vmax you will have no issue doing it w/the 250 & 55g bullet. I also have drooped them w/my 6x45 & 65g vmax at 600yds.
Its not a daily or all the time range I shoot them at, but now & then it happens.
You can do it w/the .243 w/a 55g bullet easy as the 22-250 & have a deer gun for the times you want & use the 95g bullet.
I load my 243 w/a 85g bullet for both antelope & coyote, but very rarely use it for dogs over my other dedicated coyote rigs.

 

[mws2000]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

I have been hunting coyotes in the Southern California desert since the mid 1970's. A 600 yard shot is pretty rare. I used a 22-250 for several years and never found it lacking for killing power but it was a bit destructive on pelts. I use a 6x45 as my dedicated coyote gun now. Anyway, I think the 22-250 will serve you well given your criteria.

 

[blksno]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

A dedicated coyote rifle should probably base ability on the statistical probability of shots to be taken.
I don't really think the occasional 600 yd shot per year will justify the "need" for a .243. (My personal coyote rifle was for the rare, but fun, 800+ shot on dogs. The .243WSSM with a 24" pipe and it's WAY overkill on those $40 pelts. Anything inside 200 yds has holes that really cut into the profit margin)
Using a little larger bullet for the 250 will suffice...it's more capable than even I thought.

Skinney here had this one built by C.Dixon at LongRifles Inc, and at 400 yds it's got PLENTY of coyote killing potential, even out of the stubby 18" pipe.
If you find that a bit short and WANT the velocity, go with the more typical 24" and those 600 yd shots shouldn't be to big of problem...provided you are proficient with your wind calls.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dh-Doc5BMtk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[VTi]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

All I can say is hopefully "Sendero_man" chimes in to help ya out. That dude is the coyote slayer

 

[Sauce787]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

any interest in the .204 ruger? It seem fairly easy to get a hold of and is just a barrel switch away for an ar platform

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

600 yard shots will be rare. Most shots I've seen in my very limited experience are within 200 yards but I've also had a few that were too smart to fall for the calls and hung around much farther than I was comfortable shooting them at the time. So longer shots are a possibility, but not a normal thing. Like I said, it'll be a dedicated coyote gun and nothing more.

Sounds like 22-250 is the way to go!!

 

[psinclair]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

This is the one I'm using at the moment. GAP's Crusader in .260, shooting 130 JLK's at 3000fps. It's taken more than a few coyotes at 600+. A .6 BC bullet at that velocity, with hardly any recoil is pretty hard to beat. I carry it on my back in a drag bag.

 

[JCH]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VTi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is hopefully "Sendero_man" chimes in to help ya out. That dude is the coyote slayer

</div></div>

He is, but let's not forget PGS does this for a living:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is the one I'm using at the moment. GAP's Crusader in .260, shooting 130 JLK's at 3000fps. It's taken more than a few coyotes at 600+. A .6 BC bullet at that velocity, with hardly any recoil is pretty hard to beat. I carry it on my back in a drag bag.</div></div>

I went 18" with a 6.5 CM and plan on spinning the 100 amax. I'll give a report on them after this weekend when I go try to kill some dogs.

 

[psinclair]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Lapua handed George Gardner and I a box each of the brand new 136gr scenars and a box of the 120gr scenars(both 6.5)
as well, last week at the SHOT Show. I'm looking forward to doing a little R&D on those two bullets in my two .260's.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Pat, do you think that the 260 is the way to go for a dedicated coyote rifle, or would you go with something else?

 

[psinclair]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

What is your target weight for the finished rifle, complete with scope?

For the past five years, I've used two different rifles, the GAP .260 Crusader and a Surgeon 6XC(getting a new barrel as we speak). They are both Identical, same stock, barrel contour, triggers and basically the same scopes. They weigh within a few ounces and feel the exact same. The first XC barrel went 2800 rounds, the .260 has 3100 through it right now and is still hammering. If you shoot a lot, consider the .260 .260 barrel's will outlast 6MM medium capicity cases. For me, the XC was easier to shoot, for the almost total lack of recoil, adds to the advantage of seeing more of your impacts.

Some give and take with either one. Both work very well to 600 and quite a ways beyond that.

You might look at the 6MM Creedmoor...ballistic twin of the 6XC. Nothing wrong with a .243 either.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Probably no heavier than 10-12lbs all said and done.

What bullets are/were you using in each of those calibers?

 

[psinclair]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

.260: 139 scenar, 130gr Berger HVLD, 130gr JLK.
6XC: 105gr scenar, 115gr Berger HVLD.

For years I've kept very detailed logs of the coyotes I've taken with every rifle I hunt with. I crunched some numbers and came up with this real world data on the first 100 coyotes taken with each of these rifles and loads:

GAP Crusader .260, 130gr Berger HVLD, 324 yards average shot.(24@400+)
GAP Crusader .260, 139gr Lapua scenar, 320 yards average shot.(18@400+)
Surgeon 6XC, 115gr Berger HVLD, 312 yards average shot.(22@400+)
Surgeon 6XC, 105gr Lapua scenar, 306 yards average shot.(19@400+)
Surgeon .308, 155gr Lapua scenar, 265 yards average shot.(16@400+)

When I first started using Precision Rifles for my work rifles, I used the Surgeon .308 for the first three years with no regrets.....That rifle taught me more than all the others put together. Still to this day I've made some of my best shots with it. Not my longest, but shots connected with tough wind calls. I still take it along every once in awhile just for old times sake.

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Seems like Lapua and Berger are your go-to coyote pills. I ran some ballistics on a few loads that I'd imagine would work well for coyotes and I'm really not seeing that much of an advantage in favor of the flatter calibers. Don't get me wrong, I see the advantages, but I'm doubtful if it's worth it for me. At least not out to the ranges that I'd be willing to take a shot at an animal. Beyond that and I definitely see the advantages that a fast 22, 243,or 264 class cartridge has over a 308. But for what I'm doing, and the likelihood of frequent long shots, maybe I would be better off stocking up on some 155 Scenars for my 308 and upgrading my scope instead of dumping money into a new rifle...

 

[Sendero_Man]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VTi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I can say is hopefully "Sendero_man" chimes in to help ya out. That dude is the coyote slayer

</div></div>

He is, but let's not forget PGS does this for a living:

</div></div>


that is correct... I have learned and continue to, all the time from PGS.

He is the master of his craft, no doubt !


VTi, thanks for the vote of confidence too.

 

[gabe1442]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Here's a little different perspective some of you die hard puppy pounders might find interesting. Or maybe not haha. I hunt coyotes all winter in SE Minnesota chasing them section by section with a handful of friends and 2 way radios. This, of course, presents a totally different scenario than has been discussed in this thread thus far. For starters, the hides are of nominal value in our area. If we are lucky we might kill a couple of $20 dogs in a season, and the majority have some mange. Secondly, I can count on one hand the number of shots I have taken this season at a coyote standing still. Practically all will be moving and the majority will be going full tilt. This effectively renders shot placement a moot point. Ranges vary widely, I have had the pleasure of dumping a few (but educating more) at 500+ yards, while others have tried to jump in my passenger seat. Matter of fact I keep my turkey gun loaded with 4 buck on my back seat but that's a different story. I have shot several hundred coyotes in this manner with 22-250 and 243, and a few with 223 and 25-06. Although the 22-250/50gr nosler ballistic was my go to combo for quite a few years I have decided as of late to lean more towards the 243/55gr NBT for a couple of reasons. In my experience the difference between the two in terms of terminal performance is this: a leg hit with the 22-250 and you will likely watch the dog drag his broken leg over the horizon. An identical hit with the 243 and you will still watch him go over the horizon, but his leg will be laying in the snow where the impact occurred. Also, I get a lot of shots from the road going straight away and a big yote will often continue on his way even after my 50gr NBT has given him a proctocoloectomy, albeit at a slower pace and with considerable discomfort. The same shot with the 243 and his nose will anchor in the snow not unlike a pole vaulter's pole and I'll watch him go ass-over-teakettle in the scope. Style points! Secondly, due to the fast paced style of hunting I do not have time to calculate windage or reach for my rangefinder (although there is usually a helpful fenceline at a quarter or half mile to aid in range estimation) so anything I can do to take some of the guesswork out of the shot, particularity lead distance, is a big advantage. Thus, it behooves me to err slightly on the large side caliber-wise, and still launch pills at blistering speeds. Since we can't seem to buy any snow around here lately I sent my old 22-250 VSSF/Sendero over to C.Dixon at Long Rifles Inc to be accurized, rebarreled to 243, and painted. It will be the first work Chad has done for me but I'm sure the results will be spectacular, and the average life expectancy of the yotes in my area will decrease significantly. Anyway, hard to say what's best for someone else but I consider confidence as important as anything. The only thing that's for certain is that if we could all own one rifle that was perfect for every scenario, well, that would just take all the fun out of it!

 

[Dylan in AZ]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Thank you for your reply Gabe, and welcome to the 'Hide! Could you go into more detail as to how you go about hunting yotes? The vast majority of hunters that I know of creep to a stand and sit tight while calling. But from your description I'm picturing quail hunting. More details on how you do it would be appreciated!!

-Dylan

 

[gabe1442]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Haha it'd be my pleasure, and thanks I'm glad to be here and have the opportunity to learn from some guys who REALLY know what they're doing. Its basically high-tech road hunting. In some states it is legal to use 2 way radios to aid in the killing of coyotes, usually only after the deer season is closed. On any given day we usually have 4 to 8 guys out hunting, sometimes twice that on weekends. We generally cover about a hundred square mile range, and most of us live right in that area. I leave home at first light and move from one vantage point to the next trying to glass a yote in the open, while keeping an eye out for a fresh set of tracks crossing the road. Once we have a dog spotted, or if its been a slow morning and we have chosen a fresh set of tracks to follow, we get the crew to surround the section and one of us will head out on foot to get things moving. When the dog gets running we do our best not to let him out of our sight, and keep the rest of the guys updated as to its location over the radios. Sooner or later the yote gets a little too close to the guy on foot or tries to cross a road and if things are running like the proverbial well-oiled machine someone will be there waiting for him. On a year with average snowfall our group kills in the neighborhood of 150 coyotes. Without snow we just don't even waste the fuel because it is nearly impossible to keep eyes on a coyote going wide open across a brown field and tracking is obviously out of the question. Thus we only have 36 so far this season. The other limiting factor for this style of hunting is the size of the sections, topography, and the amount of cover. My area is marginal, we have rolling hills, some timber, and very few nice square 1 mile by 1 mile sections. This makes good communication even more important and some sections require two or three guys on foot. Some do get away but its still my favorite way to spend a cool, crisp winter morning. I have done some hunting with some friends south and west of me where just about every section is flat and square and let me tell you that is an efficient killing process. The best hunting I've ever had was a morning in the flatlands where we had 10 dead at 10a.m. If nothing else its a fun social outing talking with friends and neighbors from the comfort of a vehicle.

 

[calling4life]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gabe1442</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's a little different perspective some of you die hard puppy pounders might find interesting. Or maybe not haha. I hunt coyotes all winter in SE Minnesota chasing them section by section with a handful of friends and 2 way radios. This, of course, presents a totally different scenario than has been discussed in this thread thus far. For starters, the hides are of nominal value in our area. If we are lucky we might kill a couple of $20 dogs in a season, and the majority have some mange. Secondly, I can count on one hand the number of shots I have taken this season at a coyote standing still. Practically all will be moving and the majority will be going full tilt. This effectively renders shot placement a moot point. Ranges vary widely, I have had the pleasure of dumping a few (but educating more) at 500+ yards, while others have tried to jump in my passenger seat. Matter of fact I keep my turkey gun loaded with 4 buck on my back seat but that's a different story. I have shot several hundred coyotes in this manner with 22-250 and 243, and a few with 223 and 25-06. Although the 22-250/50gr nosler ballistic was my go to combo for quite a few years I have decided as of late to lean more towards the 243/55gr NBT for a couple of reasons. In my experience the difference between the two in terms of terminal performance is this: a leg hit with the 22-250 and you will likely watch the dog drag his broken leg over the horizon. An identical hit with the 243 and you will still watch him go over the horizon, but his leg will be laying in the snow where the impact occurred. Also, I get a lot of shots from the road going straight away and a big yote will often continue on his way even after my 50gr NBT has given him a proctocoloectomy, albeit at a slower pace and with considerable discomfort. The same shot with the 243 and his nose will anchor in the snow not unlike a pole vaulter's pole and I'll watch him go ass-over-teakettle in the scope. Style points! Secondly, due to the fast paced style of hunting I do not have time to calculate windage or reach for my rangefinder (although there is usually a helpful fenceline at a quarter or half mile to aid in range estimation) so anything I can do to take some of the guesswork out of the shot, particularity lead distance, is a big advantage. Thus, it behooves me to err slightly on the large side caliber-wise, and still launch pills at blistering speeds. Since we can't seem to buy any snow around here lately I sent my old 22-250 VSSF/Sendero over to C.Dixon at Long Rifles Inc to be accurized, rebarreled to 243, and painted. It will be the first work Chad has done for me but I'm sure the results will be spectacular, and the average life expectancy of the yotes in my area will decrease significantly. Anyway, hard to say what's best for someone else but I consider confidence as important as anything. The only thing that's for certain is that if we could all own one rifle that was perfect for every scenario, well, that would just take all the fun out of it! </div></div>


"Jump in the front seat" "turkey gun loaded with buckshot on my back seat"

Sounds like you're in a vehicle chasing dogs around?

 

[ARP]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

In my region of Eastern Oklahoma and Western Arkansas, 90% of all called in coyotes will be killed under 400 yards with the majority actually under 300. For a bolt gun in this area, I would choose the 243 every time plus I would shoot the 55 grain bullets. If I go back to a bolt gun this will be what I go back to. I ran this 243 / 55 combination for a decade before switching to all gas guns so a crap ton of experience using it.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

I am an amature compared to PGS, Skinney and others on this site, but I have killed a few hundred over the last 45 years. About like they do in one winter.
I seldom get shots beyond 500 yards and an average is closer to 275. (eastern Ks). I have tried all the usual suspects and live in a fairly populated ag area.
The 6mm Rem was great, the 22-250 amazing. Of late I have gone to the 20 cals and really like them. No failures, amazing trajectory and not much leading on running shots to 300 I am still holding on fur. Range is not even considered unless past 350 as it is so flat. I use both the .204 and 20 Tactical with the Lapua/Dakota marked brass. Can't tell them apart from the preformance. Using the 32 grain bullets. Quite, no recoil, killers. I am now thinking of a 20-250 with a fast twist Krieger as Bartlein does not make barresl (yet!). Shoot the 50 grain Bergers and see how that works for longer range.

 

[Kink87]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Has any one used .223 with the 75 Amax? I'm not interested in keeping pelts so damage isn't a big deal.

 

[RTH1800]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

I have used the 77 SMK which is similar and it works well. Does not give instant kills, but ok. The problem is that the .223 does not push them fast enough to have a flat trajectory, so range is always critical. Coyote action often happens quickly. That is why most prefer a flatter shoting rifle/load combination.

 

[ridge]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

I have had great luck with 223 ai and 22-250s with 75gr amax ( 8 and 9 twist barrels). Pelt damage hasn't been that bad for myself. My favorite 22 cal predator bullet by far ( zero problems dropping song dogs with them).

To the original question, I would probally take a factory twisted 243( if you go with a fast twist barrel id take a 22-250 myself).

 

[Sledge1]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Gabe. So when you see/ find a coyote, the "hunting" part is actually over?

 

[gabe1442]

Re: So, for a dedicated Coyote gun...

Sure didn't intend to offend any of the purists out there, especially since I'm new, but you do realize people kill hundreds in a single weekend shooting from helicopters in some parts of the country. Call it what you want but don't think you get to lecture me on ethics.

 

[Reit38]

Here's a little different perspective some of you die hard puppy pounders might find interesting. Or maybe not haha. I hunt coyotes all winter in SE Minnesota chasing them section by section with a handful of friends and 2 way radios. This, of course, presents a totally different scenario than has been discussed in this thread thus far. For starters, the hides are of nominal value in our area. If we are lucky we might kill a couple of $20 dogs in a season, and the majority have some mange. Secondly, I can count on one hand the number of shots I have taken this season at a coyote standing still. Practically all will be moving and the majority will be going full tilt. This effectively renders shot placement a moot point. Ranges vary widely, I have had the pleasure of dumping a few (but educating more) at 500+ yards, while others have tried to jump in my passenger seat. Matter of fact I keep my turkey gun loaded with 4 buck on my back seat but that's a different story. I have shot several hundred coyotes in this manner with 22-250 and 243, and a few with 223 and 25-06. Although the 22-250/50gr nosler ballistic was my go to combo for quite a few years I have decided as of late to lean more towards the 243/55gr NBT for a couple of reasons. In my experience the difference between the two in terms of terminal performance is this: a leg hit with the 22-250 and you will likely watch the dog drag his broken leg over the horizon. An identical hit with the 243 and you will still watch him go over the horizon, but his leg will be laying in the snow where the impact occurred. Also, I get a lot of shots from the road going straight away and a big yote will often continue on his way even after my 50gr NBT has given him a proctocoloectomy, albeit at a slower pace and with considerable discomfort. The same shot with the 243 and his nose will anchor in the snow not unlike a pole vaulter's pole and I'll watch him go ass-over-teakettle in the scope. Style points! Secondly, due to the fast paced style of hunting I do not have time to calculate windage or reach for my rangefinder (although there is usually a helpful fenceline at a quarter or half mile to aid in range estimation) so anything I can do to take some of the guesswork out of the shot, particularity lead distance, is a big advantage. Thus, it behooves me to err slightly on the large side caliber-wise, and still launch pills at blistering speeds. Since we can't seem to buy any snow around here lately I sent my old 22-250 VSSF/Sendero over to C.Dixon at Long Rifles Inc to be accurized, rebarreled to 243, and painted. It will be the first work Chad has done for me but I'm sure the results will be spectacular, and the average life expectancy of the yotes in my area will decrease significantly. Anyway, hard to say what's best for someone else but I consider confidence as important as anything. The only thing that's for certain is that if we could all own one rifle that was perfect for every scenario, well, that would just take all the fun out of it!

There is a group of guys from where im from that hunts the same way. Ive been trying to run with them when im available. Right now im using a M&P 223 but have been thinking about getting a longer range gun. we have alot of open sections where its nothing to see them at 500+ bedded down and having no way of sneaking closer due to no cover. i had originally thought of going with 22250 but dont think it will stretch out far enough. alot of the guys that are in the group shoot custom rounds. they do sell the hides so whatever round i go with will need to be some what fur friendly.

 

[220 Swift AI]

Not trying to start anything but sounds to me like maybe should become better callers and you don't need a long range gun. Just saying. I know 2 guys that video there hunts and kill in upwards of 100 or more a year and most kills are 200 yards or less one uses a tac 17 and the other 22-250 and 223.

 

[psinclair]

Not trying to start anything but sounds to me like maybe should become better callers and you don't need a long range gun. Just saying. I know 2 guys that video there hunts and kill in upwards of 100 or more a year and most kills are 200 yards or less one uses a tac 17 and the other 22-250 and 223.

Become better callers?.....that's funny right there.

 

[xdeano]

Become better callers?.....that's funny right there.

Yes it is!
Xdeano

 

[steve123]

Dylan,

How about considering buying a action wrench and barrel vise and getting some nice Kriegers or ??? Change barrels/cartridges in 5 minutes. That way you can fix up your 308 and get a better scope.

I have a lighter 20x47L barrel for my tactical rifle which is for varmint hunting. A light load of 40 Vmax is going 4100 fps. Also a medium weight barrel and a very heavy barrel in 6x47L which is my mainstay long range cartridge. Each one for a different purpose but same scope and rifle.

I can't afford a bunch of $4000 rifles with $3000 scopes on top so doing this has saved me big $$$$$

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

i'm presently running a .308, with a 12ga or .357 6" revolver with a red dot next to it for closer stuff, but i'm not interested in the fur trade either. if i didn't have the brake on it, i'd run saboted .22 cal through it out to 400 which before the brake they flew well enough for minute of yote.

if i had the oppurtunity to build a dedicated coyote rifle, it would be a .243. on a light, short, portable platform. i believe that is the most adaptable combo for just about everything below a black bear, especially if reloading.

actually.....if i was to dream up a perfect coyote rifle, it'd be an old savage 24F (though not all that light) with a .243 over 12ga - only 1 shot, but patience is a virtue, take the shot when it's right. i used to have one in .223 / 12ga synthetic, fiber optic opens, hastings xtra full turkey choke, and a 4-12 bushnell on it that took alot of stuff both near and out to 400, but sold it before i got into tinkering with rifles and making / tuning ammo for twist rates. knowing what i know now on how to make things more user friendly to change the things that "urked" me about the 24F, it would still be in my safe and my dedicated yote / turkey gun out to 400Y

^ but that is my area, very rarely do i get the oppurtunity in this coalcracker region to have a flat open 300Y shot, never mind a 600Y one. mostly thick brush to open woods to maybe a few 300 - 400 Y farmer fields, but mostly hilly territory with less than 200 shots