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Elevation adjustments are too small as in it isn't tracking? This is giving me cold feet..
I noticed my turrets didn't line up perfectly either. When I reset the zero stop that fixed the issue. Make sure to firmly hold in place when tightening the screws
My ATACR had the same issue and I also resolved it this way.I noticed my turrets didn't line up perfectly either. When I reset the zero stop that fixed the issue. Make sure to firmly hold in place when tightening the screws
Part of me does still wish i had gotten an AMG to see what it was like. Partially because i know how the L-tec turrets feel.
I have no reservations about my AMG purchase and will likely pick up another for a .223 trainer rifle. It is only a couple hundred dollars more than the MK5, the glass hits above its price point, turrets are second only to the K624i, the EBR7B is possibly my favorite reticle, and CA is non-existent.
I have been considering the 3.6-18, but with the rumors of a lower power AMG on the horizon I think ill just continue to run the MK6 with M5C2s and TMR reticle on the 6.5 Grendel
The reticle was part of the persuasion too. The discounted price on both was $200 difference but i really do love the H59. Gives me a crutch to lean on on no dial stages. We'll see though. I'm going to run it for a month or so and i still am wanting to scratch that itch for an AMG i'll likely put it up. I feel i could still get most of my money back as it will be in near perfect condition.
The only thing I could possibly see myself switching to would be the new Kahles 525 if it handles CA better than the 624.
Didn't know they were doing a 5-25. Personally i'd like to see one in Bill or ILya's hands again before i jump to Kahles. Seen too many instances or claims of CA to even warrant considering dropping 3k+ on one. Hell at that point they're in TT/ZCO territory and if i'm dropping that kind of cash i'd likely look to them instead, no offense to those that love them. This is of course my personal opinion. I just wasn't sold on the potential $800 difference between it and the Gen II razor when i compared the too, albeit briefly. Someone gives it the go ahead of course i'd reconsider but again at that price i'd really like to give TT or ZCO a shot. Especially ZCO.
I didn't get much time stretch it out but it was spot on to 500yds today. Also have the turrets lined up so all is good there.
Yup the zero stop is built into the turret. Dunno that I’d consider it a true zero stop but it works as intended. A little fiddling and you can line the hash marks up.Did you just reset zero to line them up?
ARC low rings for me.What rings is everyone running for these? Absolutely love my dmr2 but considering a mk5hd just for weight savings on a Bergara HMR.
Thank you for the thoroughness of all your information on the Leupold Mark 5 5-25x56 Will! Regarding the Kahles K525i, I knew it was coming but was surprised it was introduced so soon and yet nothing mentioned at SHOT, my guess is this scope won't show up for a while, but they didn't want to lose market share to ZCO or other manufactures and are hoping the announcement alone will be enough to keep those interested waiting.I googled afterwards and found it. Seems to be a silent launch of it because i saw no word from SHOT interesting. Though again at $3300 i wonder how it's going to stack up against TT, ZCO, and the new S&Bs
Didn't know they were doing a 5-25. Personally i'd like to see one in Bill or ILya's hands again before i jump to Kahles. Seen too many instances or claims of CA to even warrant considering dropping 3k+ on one. Hell at that point they're in TT/ZCO territory and if i'm dropping that kind of cash i'd likely look to them instead, no offense to those that love them. This is of course my personal opinion. I just wasn't sold on the potential $800 difference between it and the Gen II razor when i compared the too, albeit briefly. Someone gives it the go ahead of course i'd reconsider but again at that price i'd really like to give TT or ZCO a shot. Especially ZCO.
Thank you for the thoroughness of all your information on the Leupold Mark 5 5-25x56 Will! Regarding the Kahles K525i, I knew it was coming but was surprised it was introduced so soon and yet nothing mentioned at SHOT, my guess is this scope won't show up for a while, but they didn't want to lose market share to ZCO or other manufactures and are hoping the announcement alone will be enough to keep those interested waiting.
My ability to test Kahles scopes may be a bit limited now that they are distributed by Swarovski. In the last several years I have not been able to get anyone at Swarovski North America to get back to me and I do not like to spend a lot of time chasing after people. They are always perfectly friendly at SHOT and go completely silent afterwards. I'll give it one more shot around summer before I give up. My time is sorta limited, so will continue looking at scopes I can easily borrow from the manufacturer. Usually, that means companies who are not afraid of a little criticism. Kahles used to be one of them, but we'll see if that still holds true.
I can always borrow one from one of the larger retailers like SWFA, EuroOptics or Cameraland, but that means they can no longer sell it as a new scope when I return it, so I do not like abusing their good graces too much.
ILya
Interesting assessment indeed. Idk if i'm to presume due to mechanics and design there is a different drop off in quality from the ultra short MK5 to the 5-25 or rather my HDMR II was a poor representation of the DMR II/HDMR II. Neither my ERS, LRHS, or HDMR II hold a candle to my USO or MK5. Edge to edge clarity and CA were borderline awful in my HDMR II. I'll get another look at a DMR II my cousin has this weekend though, should be interesting.
I’m not saying the XRS has no CA; it does have a bit centered up, and a lot if I’m not right in the middle of the eyebox. But the 3.6-18 has a little bit more in the center than the XRS does in the center. From what I remember of my Gen 1 DMR, it was optically worse than both. I can see bullet holes at 100 yards a little better with the Mark 5 at 18x than I could with the DMR at 21.
I’ve heard other people say the 5-25x is optically superior to the 3.6-18x. That wouldn’t surprise me with over 60% more objective area and less severe angles in the scope. Mechanically, I think my Mark 5 was probably just a bad sample, and it wasn’t even that bad... 1% off and still consistent and repeatable isn’t a huge deal. The 3.6-18x is a very good, short, light scope. If it were an outstanding short, light scope, I bet it would cost a lot more than most people are buying it for right now.
I see. What XRS are you comparing it to? XRS II? Or the original XRS? FWIW i thought my ERS had better glass then the mark 6 i traded for. Could've been my bias though i hated that scope.
It’s the original... I haven’t had an opportunity to look through the II. Although with the 30% Bushnell rebate going on right now, if I hadn’t just bought the Mark 5, I’d probably find an excuse to pick one up! But yeah, the original is a solid scope for sure, it’s just big and heavy, and I wanted something more suited to a 16” .308 AR. Especially since my XRS has an H37 with the horizontal stadia just 2 mils from the top in a 12-mil total FOV at 30x.
I was in the market for a short, light scope with ~15-20x max power and a Tremor 3 when I got the Mark 5. It looked to me like this and the Mark 6 were the only real options if I didn’t want to spend more money on a heavier Nightforce with less power. Judging from your opinion (and many I’ve heard) of the Mark 6, I probably have a much better scope for less money (even if I had picked up a Mark 6 used).
If that Bushnell rebate applied to the Elite Tactical lineup
If that Bushnell rebate applied to the Elite Tactical lineup i think Bushnell would have a hard time restocking their items i know i'd be tempted. I've seen the XRS II in person albeit brief and it's very nice. I was just making sure that you weren't comparing the those two rather than the Gen I XRS. I will say that's a bit disappointing to hear. The ERS/XRS DMRII/HDMRII are workhorses they work plain and simple. However i had hoped the short Mark 5 would retain most of it's big brother's characteristics as far as glass quality was concerned. Is what it is though.
Yup with the Mark 5 out i don't see a reason to get the Mark 6 at least going on the impressions of the mark 5 thus far, seems they've remedied the Mark 6.
I'm heading to Laurel this weekend for a 600yd F-class match, buddy has a 5-25 ATACR plan to put it side to side against the MK5, i'd consider it more apples to apples with the mark 5 than the SN-3 comparison.
If that Bushnell rebate applied to the Elite Tactical lineup i think Bushnell would have a hard time restocking their items i know i'd be tempted. I've seen the XRS II in person albeit brief and it's very nice. I was just making sure that you weren't comparing the those two rather than the Gen I XRS. I will say that's a bit disappointing to hear. The ERS/XRS DMRII/HDMRII are workhorses they work plain and simple. However i had hoped the short Mark 5 would retain most of it's big brother's characteristics as far as glass quality was concerned. Is what it is though.
Yup with the Mark 5 out i don't see a reason to get the Mark 6 at least going on the impressions of the mark 5 thus far, seems they've remedied the Mark 6.
I'm heading to Laurel this weekend for a 600yd F-class match, buddy has a 5-25 ATACR plan to put it side to side against the MK5, i'd consider it more apples to apples with the mark 5 than the SN-3 comparison.
I can give my impressions as I currently own both the Mark 5hd 5-25 and atacr 5-25 f1 both with the tremor reticle. I’ll tell you hands down the nightforce still wins, and I’m not a nightforce fan boy... i have no loyalty to any scope company. But it’s a closer call than I would have thought.Did they change the rebate eligibility? I swear last time I looked Elite Tactical wasn’t excluded. I see now that it is (but the fine print at the bottom of the rebate form still doesn’t mention the ET line). EDIT: just saw TheMammoth’s post, so I guess I’m not crazy after all, hahaha.
I’m not really disappointed that the shorter, lighter scope isn’t quite as good optically as the larger, heavier one... I wasn’t expecting any miracles. And it is very bright and clear, and it does have a ridiculously easy eyebox to get in, so that definitely counts for something. I look forward to hearing how the big Mark 5 compares to the ATACR!
The Leupold rep I talked to on the phone said the glass is “exactly the same” on the Mark 5hd, newer mark 8s and that vxhd model (not sure which one that was).
Oh I should have specified this is the F1 atacr model. Unfortunately they are quite expensive MAP for the tremor 3 is $3395I forgot to add it does indeed darken just a tad towards 25x can't remember where it starts.
I think Gen II razor is an applicable category for the Mk5. I for some reason thought the 5-25 ATACR with the Mil-R was $2500 did NF raise everything to $3000?
I heard the same, also talked to one that explained the situation of the Mark 6, that it was rushed and the Mark 5HD is what the Mark 6 should've been.
Oh I should have specified this is the F1 atacr model.
I thought they were less expensive as well. $3000 for a 7-25x F1? Yeah, I'll get a Schmidt for less.I figured that much i was just going to say that the ATACR was the only $2500 optic that i haven't remotely been behind. Once for like 10min but then upon checking i didn't realize that they're $3000.
I thought they were less expensive as well. $3000 for a 7-25x F1? Yeah, I'll get a Schmidt for less.
i just wanted an AMG and probably should've gotten it from the get go.
Having owned several AMGs, you will not be disappointed.I'm still probably leaning toward putting the MK5 up after this Laurel match. Not really disappointed with the optic other than my picky complaints on the turrets, i just wanted an AMG and probably should've gotten it from the get go.
When Vortex comes out with a mid-range AMG, I will replace my ATACR 4-16x F1 with it because I trust the AMG will be optically/mechanically solid and feature a good reticle without a $300 Horus upcharge.Praying for a 3-18 AMG some day!
Having owned several AMGs, you will not be disappointed.
When Vortex comes out with a mid-range AMG, I will replace my ATACR 4-16x F1 with it because I know the AMG will be optically/mechanically solid and feature a good reticle without a $300 Horus upcharge.
I currently have three of the 4-16 ATACR and I would most likely replace at least one of them, the one with the MIL-R reticle, possibly all three if I could unload the ATACR at some kind of reasonable price.
Having owned several AMGs, you will not be disappointed.
When Vortex comes out with a mid-range AMG, I will replace my ATACR 4-16x F1 with it because I trust the AMG will be optically/mechanically solid and feature a good reticle without a $300 Horus upcharge.
Superior zeroing system, equally good or better warranty, likely less expensive, product portfolio features usable no-upcharge reticles. Hopefully, if such an optic should exist in the AMG line it would also be lighter. The ATACR makes me miss my NXS as far as weight goes.@TheOE800 @TheMammoth I'm curious about this: is this because of something you don't like about the ATACR 4-16 or something you would like more about the hypothetical AMG in a similar range? Just wondering.
@TheOE800 @TheMammoth I'm curious about this: is this because of something you don't like about the ATACR 4-16 or something you would like more about the hypothetical AMG in a similar range? Just wondering.
Superior zeroing system, equally good or better warranty, likely less expensive, product portfolio features usable no-upcharge reticles. Hopefully, if such an optic should exist in the AMG line it would also be lighter. The ATACR makes me miss my NXS as far as weight goes.
Alright we'll today was basically a make or break day for the MK5 in my eyes at least. I'm happy to report i'm continually impressed and might be going back on my word as far as putting it up for sale, for now anyway. I'm going to shoot at Providence at the end of March and likely run another F-class match next month as i enjoyed it today with the electronic targets. Shot 526 for my first outing with a rear bag and atlas. Really love the electronic system and it's a great way to confirm load data. Load gave me a SD of 6 last 8 shots i ran through it and it appeared that it's solid.
I think it's safe to say someone at Leupold gathered some attention to the tarnished reputation of the Mark 6's tracking and i'm satisfied to say i think that's gone. Given the tracking test we've seen here and the results today it's spot on. Ballistic AE called for 9.3 mils for my load and i dialed to 9.3 and was spot on. I did have to come down 3/10ths after the mirage cleared but that's normal or so they tell me. I'm very inexperienced at shooting past 800yds and the mirage was terrible at first.
Scored 176, 177, and 173. Only got pics of the last two.
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Starting with the knobs again, they're growing on me. I've got it lined up perfect and despite the lack of the resistance from click to click they're louder than most i've been around, including the NF, and tactile enough. It's like that's leupold's counter to them being a little "soft" click to click so to speak. The NF i would describe as having better turrets despite my growing affection for the Mark 5. So in F-class you apparently dial for wind, which is news to me. Here we go with the wonky windage hash..You know i've been giving them hell for that hash but i was laughing because for me it actually worked From behind the gun slightly picking my head up it's clear how they intend for the shooter to use the windage. It works using it as intended and when you try to use it as a traditional windage knob is when you're left scratching your head. It's not the most precise windage hash, but if we're being honest no windage hash on the scope body is. The angle is always a bit weird less the hash is on the turret body in which case you'll have to shift more to see it. Windage clicks are much more firm than the elevation and if the elevation felt like that i'd have zero complaints about it.
On to the glass...again. Alright so the mirage sort of made it rather difficult comparing the two. That and i couldn't find anything of serious detail that could deliberately separate them. At first i was looking at an outhouse with a white screen door i'm guessing based on the parallax setting 600yds or so away. Here we run into the same faint CA issue i had before. One minute i'm looking at some minor CA on a white, sun lit screen door. I switched to the ATACR, which has none as aspected, then went back to the mark 5 and it's gone. Also found myself uncomfortable today behind it at points. Evidently i've got to keep moving the cheek weld up as it's just not there yet. This is probably the biggest draw back. The eyebox as i've already mentioned is somewhat tight at 25x. It's not detrimental, just rather tight. I'd describe it as similar to a ERS/XRS. The NF in this regard was phenomenal, reminded me of my USO on 17x, just extremely comfortable to be behind. As it's to note it's on a friends rifle, setup for him, and i had no problem jumping behind it.
Parallax goes to NF, hands down it was reminiscent of my SN-3 you could leave it at a mid setting and look all around without inducing much parallax.
Next was resolution. Lacking rather detailed objects of small font to try and compare the two i moved to the American flag on the pole i'm guessing 800yds straight out to the left and in front of the 1000yd line. It was really hard to tell the difference between them at least in this setting. Edge to edge clarity in both is superb. The image size on the NF is larger. Note i'm not specifying FOV as i have no metric to measure this. I don't really know the terminology for it but the NF again felt very reminiscent of my SN-3 it's like the eyepiece is just huge where the Leupold feels like you're looking through a smaller tube. I guess it's just the literal size of the rear ocular lens. I don't have the terminology or knowledge to reliably articulate what i'm describing but i'm sure some of you can reminisce. I didn't adjust the diopter on either. I'll also note that i loathe the NF's rotating eyepiece. For the love of God some of us are left eye dominant and use scope caps to cover our dominant eye so we can shoot both eyes open. Literally serves no purpose other than an annoyance as far as i'm concerned.
Next is color/contrast this is where i think NF takes the cake, it's beautiful. It's contrast is superior to the Mark 5 hands down. The easy way to describe it for me is a calibrated versus an uncalibrated TN panel. It's not that drastic for those of you who are thinking how horrid TN panels are out of the box without the proper ICC profiles or calibration with a colorimeter. This picture is how i would describe it but again not that drastic. Granted i realize that the picture below is not an uncalibrated TN vs a calibrated TN. My point is to illustrate the differences i'm seeing with my eyes to you all, which turns out is inherently difficult without seriously nice cameras to properly capture the IQ of the optics. What it basically translates to though, is deeper blacks and truer color.
Lastly i looked at cows off to the right and couldn't tell much difference between the two at all. Maybe a slight edge to the NF, though Idk it was very close on the last look through. I was hoping i'd find some small letters that could really discern a resolution difference between the two.
All in all yes the NF is the superior optic probably both mechanically and optically. Though to get the NF in the conifg i'm running (H59) it's literally $1000 more and the same for the non-illum TMR versus the Mil-R. I'm not comparing Illum vs Illum because in that regard Leupold is overpriced but the obvious point is that there is an option which allows you to acquire a mark 5 at 2/3rds the cost of an ATACR. I also consider it rather unnecessary for what most of us are doing less you're running clip on NV or are LEO. Is it a $1000 difference? I don't personally think so but that's a choice that only you can make. I also have heard Leupold has a reticle that was just approved and have to say if they have something like the Mil-C or think a TMR with a center dot and .2-mil hashes and there is no premium for it, i think they'll sell like crazy. Another nod to NF really liked the Mil-C reticle. I still prefer a tree, i always will but the Mil-C is noticeably thinner than both reticles in my optics i run and i appreciated that.
As i said before i can't speak for the 3.6-18, but the 5-25 is an amazing value for the discounted prices going around right now. If they can field a base model at $1999 with a proper reticle be it something reminiscent of the Mil-C or SKMR3 it would IMHO only be bested by DMR II pro for the money, assuming the DMR II Pro pans out and is $1599.
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