Can you send link to this, all I see on their site is 30’s and 34’s
I might have been mistaken if they're not showing 35s they probably don't have em. A friend just mentioned that there was a sell going on.
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Can you send link to this, all I see on their site is 30’s and 34’s
The mk5 clicks may be louder, but they got considerably more play in them then a NF and the like.
When I dial my kahles, NF or S&B there is minimal, if not no side movement. My Mk5 has enough slop in the turrets that the cap won’t align with the corresponding hash on the base of the optic.
Nice upgrade from the past turrets, but not jaw dropping precise like other makes.
Overall, the ATACR F1 4-16 is the better scope, but it's a lot closer than I expected. Also, I'm in the Leupold TMR (#173296) for $1500, brand new, shrink-wrapped. I could never justify the upcharge for Leupold's illumination, but if you consider my cost of entry for the Leupold it DEFINITELY doesn't feel like $950 less scope than the ATACR (C542 and C552). That makes me a happy customer.
Marketers are watching all of this. With all of the comments and videos comparing clicks, they know the way to sell a scope is to make the clicks louder. Nothing says louder clicks equate to any other desirable quality.
Since you have both the ATACR F1 and the Mark 5 I would be curious to hear your thoughts as to how both perform in low light at say 12x or so, this is where I find some scopes that do great in daytime light have really struggled and others have really shined.
I just took them both out at dusk with a pretty decent rain shower going on. I put them both on 12X (or as near as I could since the NF isn't marked exactly at 12X). The Leupold is much easier for me to get behind. I've never been really good behind the NF getting comfortable. Leupold seems much more forgiving.
Everybody will have a different opinion, but these two scopes optical quality is so close to me. I tried to take a picture, but regular caveats apply here. Even though they were taken with a brand new iPhone X, it is what it is. Here they are.
Nightforce ATACR F1 4-16X42 MOAR (Image IMG_0211.jpg) and Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18X44 TMR (image IMG_0214.jpg)
From your photos it seems like the Leppy has a fair amount of CA along the tree limbs in front of the glare from street...did it appear this way to you in person? I cannot see any in the NF photo.
I'll agree that the clarity and color looks very good in the MK5 but I'd have a hard time with it if high contrast white to dark causes CA. Thanks on advance for any extra feedback here!
^^^ Thank you kdub, your eyes are a much better judge of performance than a camera taking a through the scope image. Very interesting you said the Mark 5 was much easier to get behind than the NF, that is a bit surprising but it is what it is and that is your experience. How about color, contrast and brightness, did the two scopes seem pretty equal in that regard?
More a camera issue I think. I chose the last photo because it was a little more in focus. Here's another one attached that still shows a little, but not as much. In person I didn't notice it.
Really, really close, in my opinion. And yeah, the Leupold was even much much easier to take a picture through too...
I can see what Subwrx is saying from the images; however, CA is often pronounced when taking through the scope images due to CA in the lenses of the system your taking a picture with, that being said we can get a general idea especially if both images are shot in the same conditions using the same settings. The NF appears to have better contrast in that regard and better CA but have to rely on the impression through the naked eye by the user, the fact that you could not see it or noticeably discern it is a good start.
Regarding eyebox, I was not expecting this result. The fact that you were able to get the through the scope images easier is also a testament to your own personal observations. I might forgive a bit of CA if resolution is on par and the scope is that much easier to get behind. Hmmm, Leupold keeps checking off the right boxes so far with this 3.6-18x44, waiting to hear back from ILya and his experience which hopefully we'll start getting some tidbits soon. Frank also mentioned he could see himself running one of these and with his relationship with Mile High would love to hear a podcast on that experience at https://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com/
Going to take the Leupold out and break in the barrel of this Fierce later on this week.
I can see what Subwrx is saying from the images; however, CA is often pronounced when taking through the scope images due to CA in the lenses of the system your taking a picture with, that being said we can get a general idea especially if both images are shot in the same conditions using the same settings. The NF appears to have better contrast in that regard and better CA but have to rely on the impression through the naked eye by the user, the fact that you could not see it or noticeably discern it is a good start.
Regarding eyebox, I was not expecting this result. The fact that you were able to get the through the scope images easier is also a testament to your own personal observations. I might forgive a bit of CA if resolution is on par and the scope is that much easier to get behind. Hmmm, Leupold keeps checking off the right boxes so far with this 3.6-18x44, waiting to hear back from ILya and his experience which hopefully we'll start getting some tidbits soon. Frank also mentioned he could see himself running one of these and with his relationship with Mile High would love to hear a podcast on that experience at https://theeverydaysniper.podbean.com/
Well Bill i was very close to going ahead and getting the 3.6-18 as well due to the tax return ha! Both my ARs are scopeless right now and that would be the perfect 224v SPR optic. Since the florida craze and a missed coyote out of a truck on the farm last weekend though, i think that money is going towards a 8" 300blk. Still given Kdub's impressions on the 3.6-18 i might try to swing one in the summer. ILya is going to review one as well and that will be the tell tail.How come you didn't get the 3.6-18x44 Will, that's the one I want to hear more about Curious to hear your thoughts in comparison.
PS - Hasn't anyone told you that rifles and liquor don't mix
I went with H59 non-illuminated. I will try to get a glass comparison but idk when that will be. I'm pretty much swamped until the 1st. I do plan to shoot an F-class match on the 10th though. So will probably zero and get dope the week of the 1st.Nice! What reticle did you go with? Interested to hear glass comparison
Well Bill i was very close to going ahead and getting the 3.6-18 as well due to the tax return ha! Both my ARs are scopeless right now and that would be the perfect 224v SPR optic. Since the florida craze and a missed coyote out of a truck on the farm last weekend though, i think that money is going towards a 8" 300blk. Still given Kdub's impressions on the 3.6-18 i might try to swing one in the summer. ILya is going to review one as well and that will be the tell tail.
With all the studying i'm going to do for the next 9 days i'm going to need a drink
Sorry, couldn't resist with the stocked cabinet behind the rifle. Drinks are on me (from your cabinet of course)
Ooooh, an 8" 300BLK, now you're talking, here's my 9", it also wears a Vortex AMG UH-1 now too...
That's better, I was going to say that the NF was clearer than the Mk 5 but now you have a better focus I think the Mk 5 is a lot sharper,More a camera issue I think. I chose the last photo because it was a little more in focus. Here's another one attached that still shows a little, but not as much. In person I didn't notice it.
Really, really close, in my opinion. And yeah, the Leupold was even much much easier to take a picture through too...
So at Lanbos armory the 3.6-18x44 TMR is $1450 once added to cart and the 5-25 is $1600. $1850 for the H59 variant..
Alright. Finally got to my friends to look at the new scope. Good looking optic. Thing is ultralight for it's size, which Leupold has been leading in weight for some time. I was most worried after seeing the video above of the 3.6-18 turret wobble or slack between clicks but am relieved mine is not bad at all. Actually they're quite tight. I assure you if they had wobble as bad as the video i was gearing up to return it and pick up an AMG. Not the nicest turrets i've ever felt, but by no means bad. I went between it and my friend's Gen II the Gen II is more distinct between each click and a little harder to turn for each click. Which i actually prefer. The Leupold is not bad by any means, light years ahead of the M5B2 knobs for sure. Well ahead of the HDMR II i just let go also. Not quite as tactile as my EREK or a Gen II razor but they're by no means mushy. Wobble is a tad more than the Gen II but as my friend showed me he could make the Gen II wobble side to side as well. I mean you really have to purposefully wiggle the knob to actuate any side to side play between clicks. It's not something practically that would every hurt. Windage knob is much tighter, which kind of makes me wish that's what the elevation knob felt like but that's neither here nor there. Completely understand the gripes about the windage hash lol it's bizarre. I see what they were thinking but in reality it's not that practical. Doesn't matter as mentioned most of us don't dial wind. Magnification ring is perfect IMO, not too stiff (gen II razor 1-6) but not too easy. Parallax was extremely easy to turn, little off putting depending on your preference but we shall see if it has any bearing on it working properly (I would think not)
Haven't had the chance to compare glass yet, from the inside it looks phenomenal but i'm looking at a wall. When i get time i will take it out and put it against a Gen II Razor and ATACR.
View attachment 6875980
View attachment 6875981
Leupold has a lot of catching up to do...
What ring height is that for the ARCs and where did you get them
Got my mark 5 5-25 H59 in earlier today. Weather is overcast but I still took it out to do some side by side comparisons with the kahles 624i, minox zp5, sightron siii ffp, a gen 2 razor 4.5-27, and a meopta meopro 6-18 (why not, it was in the safe too). Ill break down the side by side comparisons based on what I saw today alone. There will be more comparisons once I get a bright sunny day and time at the range to do a proper tall target test. I didn't feel like unmounting all my scopes for weighing, but the leupold feels pretty light and not in a cheap way. Seemed comparable to the kahles but my calibrated arm isn't the best judge.
Turrets- seems to be one of the biggest concerns. The mk5 turrets have very positive clicks, and I have no play in mine at all. They're easy to turn, clicks are very audible, everything lines up as it should but my only complaint is the windage indicator being set at the 11 o clock position. It's downright annoying trying to line anything that isnt numbered up ( like 1.4 mils for example). Maybe it will become easier with more use but as of now I dont like it at all. The zero stop thing that pops out is ok, but seems kind of pointless if you have zero stop capability already. The saving grace is that the clicks are so damn loud and positive I can easily count from a whole number to wherever I need to be. Other saving grace is the H59 reticle. Really wont need to dial for wind unless theres a tornado. Best turrets go to the Kahles ( no surprise) followed by the minox, then razor,leupold (very close to the razor but not as much resistance as the razor when dialing), sightron, and lastly the meopta .
Glass- As subjective as this is and how everyone's eyes will perceive optimal clarity differently, along with this overcast day, the leupold really shines. I couldnt really notice any CA on any of the optics due to the weather Im thinking. On a sunny day I'm sure they will stand apart but the Kahles, minox, and leupold had the best image quality which I couldnt distinguish a difference followed by the razor with a slight slight edge over the sightron, and lastly the meopta. Again, they were all damn close. I need better weather to get a good impression but the leupold performs well on overcast days. Ill get them all out at dusk again to see if theres any noticeable difference in very low light situations. Were any of them so shitty I wanted to return them? Nope, not even the meopta.
Parralax- Works as it should and was not a pain in the ass to fine tune where I needed on the leupold to be for 400 yards ( distance I tested all these scopes to.) There isnt much rotation on the leupold between min paralax and infinity however. The distances are numbered which some people like but personally I could care less. I just dial until my image is nice and clear. Really nothing major to note other than the meopta has a very finnicky paralax. The sightron does as well which is probably why they came out with the fine focus on the svss models.
At this point my neighbor came home and saw me laying in the driveway with a bunch of rifles and quickly went in to his house. I waited for the cops to show up for a good 15 minutes but nothing.. Guess Albuquerque cops have better things to deal with on a Tuesday afternoon.
Eye relief- on 5x all the way to 25x, I had zero issues behind the leupold. I didnt have to break my cheek weld at all. It was the easiest of all the scopes to get behind and build a good sight picture. Following the leupold was sightron, minox, then razor, meopta, and lastly the kahles. Again, was it a substantial difference between all of them? not really. Between the leupold and the kahles though there was a very noticeable difference. This doesnt mean the kahles is a piece of shit, it just took a couple extra seconds to get a good alignment. Is this really imnportant? Maybe for a timed competition but for every day plinking at the range I don't think it would be. All of the scopes were easy to get eye relief with low magnification, but at max is usually where they differentiate.
Reticles. Leupold with an H59, kahles with skmr3, minox with the mr4, razor with ebr2c, sightron with lrmoa, and meopta with a standard mil dot ( my hunting scope). They all have their advantages and disadvantages, but Im partial to the christmas tree style reticles as a personal preference . While the H59 is very useable, it seems a little cluttered. It's a standard H59, nothing different than anything else with an H59, but still feels a little cluttered. The minox and kahles have very similar reticles but I prefer the windage dots of the mr4 opposed to the lines the kahles has. The sightron lrmoa is very basic but very useable as well, and a mil dot is as basic as it comes and is great for hunting being so bold, but I wouldnt take it target shooting when trying to make tiny groups.
Free shit- Leupold comes with scope caps, a sweet sticker, manual, and allen key as did most of the others. I didn't get a lens cloth which I thought was pretty standard with any scope. It also comes with a sun shade. Sonce this is a non illuminated reticle I didnt get a battery.
Ill keep adding to this as weather permits and hopefully get some range time this weekend to run a tall target test for tracking. I have a padded pelican case so my plan is to zero the leupold, put it in the case with rifle, and drop it down some steps to shake the crap out of it and see if it maintains zero. I did this with the minox because if a 2700$ scope cant hold zero when being banged around in a padded case, then it doesn't seem very reliable to me. The minox held zero perfectly. The meopta has been on my hunting rifle for a couple years ( 270 win) and has never lost zero, same with the sightron. I really havent used the razor much but it too has held zero going from the range to the safe and the kahles is pretty new as well so I havent abused it.The razor didnt do very well on the tall target test last time I ran it though. I was .2 mils off at 10 mils elevation. Im going to retest it with the leupold though.
So far with only one overcast afternoon of fiddling, I am happy with the leupold and the only negative I have is that 11 oclock windage marker. If it tracks after being pounded down some steps, maintains zero, and doesn't go to absolute shit in bright sunlight, I think it is a great buy. I did get it at the mil discount which makes the price a little more attractive, but after eahring lanbos armory is selling the tmr model for well under 2k, I have a feeling dealers are going to drop their prices on the rest of the models after a little time on the market.
Im in no way a leupold fanboy or have any preference in scopes. I only owned one other 2x leupold I had on a 454 casull and it worked fine. I will say I am partial to the minox and kahles because theyre pretty much awesome in every way but their price goes in to the 2600-3000$ range.
Don't bash me and call me a blind dumbass, this is just what I observed and wanted to share. If you want to have me test anything specific this weekend, let me know and Ill do it
Good eye Sub, it's the older 30 BA (9"), been thinking about get the guts replaced through TBAC's program to make it an Ultra 9; however, I also want to get an Ultra 5 once the funds come in.Do you run that with an Ultra 5,7, or 9? Noticed the TBAC CB mount.
Got my mark 5 5-25 H59 in earlier today.
So far with only one overcast afternoon of fiddling, I am happy with the leupold and the only negative I have is that 11 oclock windage marker. If it tracks after being pounded down some steps, maintains zero, and doesn't go to absolute shit in bright sunlight, I think it is a great buy.
It tracks true?
Did your two poor tracking mk6’s have the M5B2 or the M5C2 turrets?I’ve had 2 mk 6’a that did not track for shit (like a half mil off at 10 mils).
The mk5 seems to be better then the mk6 in almost every way.
The mk5 seems to be better then the mk6 in almost every way.
For those with experience with the Tremor 3 and who shoot with 6.5 Creedmoor, what has your experience been with the windage markers which I believe were designed for military loads like M118LR and 300WM, how are they aligning with 6.5CM loads?
Thanks bmx, I’ll have to look at that as I thought the Tremor was a blend of mil and ballistics based on military ammo, my bad for not investigating furtherThe wind dots aren't designed for any particular ammo, they're designed so they can be used with any load out there. It's as simple as running your ballistics and matching up your load to what dot = what MPH. There's a good video on youtube with Todd Hodnett explain the system and how to match it up to your rifle.