Some of you suggested looking at .300BO vs 5.56

[Yondering]

They listed it as the 110 hollow point varminter.
I will likely try some hornady also when I come across some, I’ll stick with the lighter bullet.

I looked at their website, unfortunately that looks like the 110gr Sierra Vermonter bullet which is one of the few light bullets that is not a good choice for hunting.

Unfortunately neither of those rounds are good hunting choices; you’re stuck between too much expansion and little or none. Of course that explains why those are still in stock too.

Edit to add - that 110gr Varminter bullet does have some good qualities for home defense though, particularly if you’re looking for something that tends to fragment apart rather than penetrate deeply. I have not hunted with this one, but all my testing indicates it comes apart readily at 300 Blk speeds.
Hope that helps!

 

[Yondering]

Hypothetical self defense scenarios coupled with drop tables predicated on 100 yard zeros and terminal ballistic arguments make me LOL.

Yeah, because nobody uses a gun for self defense, the 300 Blk is never used beyond self defense ranges, and all bullets work the same. Right....
/s

If you don’t think the terminal ballistics details are worth considering for 300 Blk subs, you probably don’t have an opinion founded in facts. This isn’t just 9mm vs 45 ACP; there are legitimate concerns and issues with rifle bullet subsonics that most people don’t understand.

 

[alamo5000]

So I started looking at a .300 BO and told its dying and not worry of investment. But from available ammo and new weapons, I don’t see this as a dying cartridge.

Agree or disagree?

If you disagree, what’s a good alternative for personal defense weapon.

Back to the original post... Sorry I have not read all of the responses... but whoever said 300 BLK is 'dying' is full of crap. No way. No how is this true.

The main reason why many people shy away from it is because of the cost to reload. It's substantially more to reload even in normal times. While I don't know all the brutal details I have another hypothesis about why this is so... aside from raw material costs, a lot of the manufacturers of bullets are chasing the high BC super long range shooting trend and other items in their list are being cut back in favor of higher margin products.

Yes you can find heavy bullets (220+) but odds are good that many options are being manufactured with ultra high BC designs in mind and hence the cost will be a lot more. There are less and less (for now) people making simple bread and butter basic bullets that are sold in bulk boxes or whatever that were at least in the past somewhat more reasonable.

I have a suppressed 9" SBR that is absolutely awesome to shoot. It definitely doesn't disappoint in the fun category which is my primary use of it. In the case of self defense if you get a decent bullet in the 110-125 grain range pretty much anything smaller than a grizzly bear would be screwed within self defense ranges. If you shoot a bad guy that is over 100 yards away you might have bigger problems to deal with in short order.

I have a choice of several things for SD but 300 blackout definitely does not lack when using the right load.

That said the prohibitive cost of jacketed heavy bullets has led me to consider cast bullets for a day to day plinking load. I had a thousand of them and eventually made them run quite reliably once I got the kinks worked out. Loading cast bullets and jacketed bullets are apples and oranges so don't think you can just substitute one set of data for the other. But it is a viable option for sure. That said even with the cast bullet manufacturers they have been OOS on everything and backordered for months because of the 2020-21 ammo run. Coated cast bullets are definitely a viable option (in normal times) to shoot more for less, particularly when talking big subsonic loads or whatever.

 

[Yondering]

The main reason why many people shy away from it is because of the cost to reload. It's substantially more to reload even in normal times. While I don't know all the brutal details .

Uh, no it isn’t. Maybe if you’re using some of the specialty expanding subsonic bullets like Lehigh’s excellent 194gr ME, but otherwise it’s very cheap and easy to load.

The real reason it’s not more popular (although it’s already extremely popular and common now) is the cost of factory ammo, as someone else already said. Even that stuff has been getting cheaper the last few years.

This is one of the cheapest center fire cartridges to load, with huge availability and selection of components compared to a lot of other cartridges.

It uses the same primers and parent brass as 5.56, and about 1/3 less powder. Cheap bullets are (were) similarly priced, with a number of good economical options like the 125gr Speer TNT, or 147gr pulls. Heck even just a few months ago, during the current troubles, I bought 125 TNTs for $0.16/ea, and they were around $0.12/ea a while back.

 

[alamo5000]

Uh, no it isn’t. Maybe if you’re using some of the specialty expanding subsonic bullets like Lehigh’s excellent 194gr ME, but otherwise it’s very cheap and easy to load.

I was trying to refer more specifically to heavy subs which attracts a lot of people to 300 BLK.

Make no mistake about it you can find very reasonable 'plinking' bullets, or bullets designed for different uses than just subs. I am not at all arguing about that, but in the heavy subsonic realm the traditional heavy copper jacketed bullets are a bit more costly.

The 'regular price' of say 77 grain SMK vs 220 grain SMK is quite different. On the Sierra website for example 500 77grain .223 bullets is $170 bucks vs 500 220 grain SMK that are $290 bucks. 58 cents per bullet vs .34 cents a bullet. If you compare to regular old bulk 55 grain offerings the contrast in price is even larger.

There are a gazillion options for 300BLK. The versatility is IMO a great selling point. If you can't find X you might find Y and generally speaking that's completely fine.

 

[hlee]

Yeah, because nobody uses a gun for self defense, the 300 Blk is never used beyond self defense ranges, and all bullets work the same. Right....
/s

If you don’t think the terminal ballistics details are worth considering for 300 Blk subs, you probably don’t have an opinion founded in facts. This isn’t just 9mm vs 45 ACP; there are legitimate concerns and issues with rifle bullet subsonics that most people don’t understand.

Um, no. Because if are 100 yards from your “threat,” s/he’s probably not a threat and your going to have a good time in court proving self defense. I lump pistols, archery equipment, and the 300 bo into the same bucket. They are very effective within the limitations of the equipment. I’m not taking 200 yard shots on game, or on “threats.”

“You can’t use a 300 blackout for self defense because it drops 16 inches at 100 yards and will bounce off a tee shirt, or plow through a house” makes me LOL. And, if you can’t see how redic this thread is, you probably don’t have an opinion worth listening to.

 

[alamo5000]

Um, no. Because if are 100 yards from your “threat,” s/he’s probably not a threat and your going to have a good time in court proving self defense. I lump pistols, archery equipment, and the 300 bo into the same bucket. They are very effective within the limitations of the equipment. I’m not taking 200 yard shots on game, or on “threats.”

Often times people do make crazy claims about 300BLK. For those that hate it they will shout from the rooftops about how their AR10 provides more knockdown power (or whatever) using the same bullets or whatever. It's kind of dumb to waste brain power on those type of useless comparisons.

In my view 300 BLK is designed and meant for much closer engagements. It's not saying people can't hit targets out to 200-500 yard ranges but in general in a self defense situation that won't be an issue. There definitely are limitations to 300BLK but hopefully everyone knows this before they get into that or any other cartridge.

If people want to test 'pure terminal ballistics' that's fine. I get it . Those people's 308 will obliterate some gel blocks, but with the right ammo choice 300BLK will be a fine choice for self defense.

 

[Highspeed_gardener]

I don’t think it’s going anywhere. One of its issues, in its subsonic role, was a lack of expanding hunting bullets. I’ve been using the 110g Barnes black tips in a single shot break action with a red dot for white tails. I’m in the mountains on the east coast, and I do a lot of up and down hiking when I’m hunting. It fills my role for a small & light rifle even with a can on it. I just found maker bullets this year and, after testing, decided to run their 200g Rex rounds. They expand reliably at subsonic speeds and look like a damn grappling hook when they do. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to connect this year, but am planning on trying them again this fall. I already have ringing in my ears and am willing to keep my shots to under 100 yards to prevent additional hearing damage.

 

[SmokyJoe]

The Lehigh 194gr ME is a an excellent subsonic bullet that expands reliably. Not cheap but it gets the job done. My handloads zero at 20yds, are ~2” high at 50yds and are back to zero at 90yds. I use it on ‘varmints’ out to 100Y. Out to 200Y, I use the Barnes 110gr Vor-Tx. 300BLK is versatile, light, has virtually no recoil, and can serve real purpose. It isn’t the end all to be all, but checks a good number of boxes. I do recommend the Rainier Ultramatch barrels for consistently tight groups with handloads.

 

[Yondering]

Um, no. Because if are 100 yards from your “threat,” s/he’s probably not a threat and your going to have a good time in court proving self defense. I lump pistols, archery equipment, and the 300 bo into the same bucket. They are very effective within the limitations of the equipment. I’m not taking 200 yard shots on game, or on “threats.”

“You can’t use a 300 blackout for self defense because it drops 16 inches at 100 yards and will bounce off a tee shirt, or plow through a house” makes me LOL. And, if you can’t see how redic this thread is, you probably don’t have an opinion worth listening to.

Why are you arguing as if the only use for a 300 Blk is self defense? Is that what you need to feel superior to everyone else in the thread?

A LOT of people hunt with 300 Blk, and it’s more than capable of taking deer past 100 yards. Even 200 yards is not all that far to shoot at game for a lot of people. You might not, but don’t assume that everyone else has the same limits.

 

[hlee]

Why are you arguing as if the only use for a 300 Blk is self defense? Is that what you need to feel superior to everyone else in the thread?

A LOT of people hunt with 300 Blk, and it’s more than capable of taking deer past 100 yards. Even 200 yards is not all that far to shoot at game for a lot of people. You might not, but don’t assume that everyone else has the same limits.

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it? I said I nothing about the effectiveness or applicability of the 300 blackout for hunting in my original post. As a matter of fact, I said nothing about the 300 blackout in my original post. I said...

Hypothetical self defense scenarios coupled with drop tables predicated on 100 yard zeros and terminal ballistic arguments make me LOL.

My comment about the effectiveness of any cartridge in a 100+ yard “self defense” engagement, for a civilian, is what makes me LOL. And, it was not directed at anything that you had posted up to that point- that I recall anyway. Honestly, I’m not wading back to check.

I own and hunt with a 300 blackout. I use a suppressor and subsonic ammunition. For my use case, I treat it the same as I do archery equipment, or would if hunting with a pistol. Get close. Take dead aim. Relatively inexpensive to reload for, light weight, compact, quiet, sufficiently precise, and just fun to shoot.