Soooo.. We blew one up

[Blackeyes]

Out at Altus Saturday, a buddy of mine with a nice BCM had it blow up (literally) Cracked the barrel at the chamber, cracked the upper receiver, blew apart the bolt catch mechanism, turned the extractor into a weird U shape, Enlarged the Magwell and turned a Pmag into shrapnel. He tore it down, found nothing in the bore but then realized the ammo he was running was a batch where the batteries got low on the sensors on his loading equipment (or something to that affect) and he may have had a squib that got past him in that batch. What we suspect happened was a squib left a bullet in the bore, the next cycle just clicked, he slap and racked it thinking bad primer, clicked again, slap and racked again, hit the bolt assist and BOOM! Good thing he had eyes on, he took a bit of shrapnel to the face...
We can't connect all the dots with any other scenario except a squib left an obstruction in the barrel and resulted in catastrophic failure. The explosion blew the back of the bullet out and I guess the Magwell was the closest way out for the pressure. We found nothing in the bore, we think the last rd cleared out the bore, but we are guessing as to what happened. The squib did not sound any different as far as he can remember, he is a very well versed shooter and would have likely noticed it.
We have had squibs in pistols and the sound is very different as you would expect, you clear it and get on with it. In AR's you can certainly have a failure to fire, you slap, rack and try to get the gun back in the fight, but this time that ended very badly. Nothing against BCM, its a very well made weapon that runs like a cheetah, we are convinced the failure was due to an ammo issue, but he never loads hot in AR rds, so it really only leaves a squib (?)
Anyone run into this??
Just trying to nail this down...
Thanks

 

[10ring1]

Hopefully everyone is ok...

 

[kampr]

Pic’s?

 

[Gatorshark]

no pics, no happen. Please elaborate more on low batteries.

 

[Lunchbox27]

Time for him to count his blessing and go back to shooting factory ammo for a while. At least no one needed the hospital.

 

[pucker]

Glad he had eyes on. Too many stories like this to think it's ever ok to shoot an AR without them.

 

[acudaowner]

without pics or a video it never happened ... bet it was still pretty cool to watch explosions are fun as long as no one was hurt .

 

[Blackeyes]

Ill get pics from him asap
Thanks

 

[hlee]

Run the rest of the reloads across a digital reloading scale. Fast and easy to find any un(der)charged cartridge(s).

 

[Jumper]

Similar event happened to a friend of mine shooting gun show reloads. We analyzed the remaining ammo after the fact and it looks like there were several loaded with pistol powder.

 

[Spblademaker]

Gun show reloads are almost as dangerous as gas station sushi.

 

[b6graham]

who buys reloads at a gunshow?

 

[Tokay444]

 

[whatsupdoc]

Hmm, "hit the bolt assist and BOOM" not sure what this means. Are you saying that the rifle discharged by hitting the forward assist only OR he hit the forward assist then pulled the trigger?

 

[hlee]

I suppose a "high primer" could be detonated by forcing a round into the chamber with the forward assist. That would fit with all of the other symptoms, including a clear barrel...

 

[hlee]

I know everyone wants to be OAF and run those firearm clearance drills. But, when your gun malfs in training, that's the time to let off the gas and engage the brain. If you want to run clearance drills, set them up with a running gun- don't hammer on a gun that's yelling at you to stop...

 

[Blackeyes]

Hmm, "hit the bolt assist and BOOM" not sure what this means. Are you saying that the rifle discharged by hitting the forward assist only OR he hit the forward assist then pulled the trigger?

Hit forward assist then pulled trigger

 

[Blackeyes]

I know everyone wants to be OAF and run those firearm clearance drills. But, when your gun malfs in training, that's the time to let off the gas and engage the brain. If you want to run clearance drills, set them up with a running gun- don't hammer on a gun that's yelling at you to stop...

Agreed
We did discuss that after the fact, I believe he was on a timer in the shoot house when it happened, can't remember. He's very methodical in his approach, just the first time anything like this has happened. Your training immediately sends you into fast reaction, but it bit us in the butt this time.
Live and learn

 

[Blackeyes]

no pics, no happen. Please elaborate more on low batteries.

Not sure, its not my equipment. I remember him saying something about the sensor not at par and a few got through before he realized it. He thought he had culled all the squibs. He said multiple things that could have caused it. Im not very familiar with his setup, and I don't reload.
Pics coming

 

[Blackeyes]

who buys reloads at a gunshow?

Not us

 

[Runnineh]

I know everyone wants to be OAF and run those firearm clearance drills. But, when your gun malfs in training, that's the time to let off the gas and engage the brain. If you want to run clearance drills, set them up with a running gun- don't hammer on a gun that's yelling at you to stop...

Probably the best statement/advise I've read on this entire forum

 

[lash]

who buys reloads at a gunshow?

I wouldn’t today, but back in the early ‘80s, before I had a press, I bought hundreds of .38 & .357 reloads at gun shows from a company I think was called Georgia Arms. Never had an issue, so was probably lucky I guess.

 

[z7.jled]

I’ve had a three ammo related malfunctions in competitions, two I’ve stopped the stage (3gun, oversized 9mm locked up the pistol out of battery) and the other I didn’t catch until I picked up my brass - that was the one that scared me

some contrived prs stage -shoot off this thing and then that thing at these targets, I don’t remember exactly, but i ran the bolt and on about the 5th shot it went “click”, so I just ran the bolt and continued. I shoot a Mausingfield and with MDT mags there are timesI don’t feel a round pick up, particularly when I’m running it fast on the clock

turns out the click was a cartridge I didn’t put powder in, it ejected just fine and luckily pulled the bullet out with it. Easily could have been a squib and blown up 45g of varget in my face

agree with the poster above, if it’s a fighting gun, train to fight with it but remember what you are doing and listen to the gun when competing and training. Most of our gear is bad ass and we maintain it to work flawlessly, we are not patrolling for days and then getting into a fight, if it isn’t working right something is probably wrong and it’s worth checking out

 

[357Max]

Most of the AR blowups I've seen (i.e. read about) have been a random 300bo load that gets chambered. There are just short enough that with some forward assist the bullet just gets push back some in the case and kaboom.

I hate to admit this, but first time to range with my 300 BO I was function testing & tuning gas block with Winchester white box 125 grain ammo. I was'nt paying vary close attention when loading the mags. Got a jam (fail to go fully into battery), instead of hitting the forward assist I just racked it & a fucking 350 legend came out D'oh! Thankfully a 350 Legend will not chamber in 300bo.

Since there are no pics for our entertainment here is an intentional 300bo blowup with almost the exact same damage you describe.

 

[winniedonkey]

Most of the AR blowups I've seen (i.e. read about) have been a random 300bo load that gets chambered. There are just short enough that with some forward assist the bullet just gets push back some in the case and kaboom.

I hate to admit this, but first time to range with my 300 BO I was function testing & tuning gas block with Winchester white box 125 grain ammo. I was'nt paying vary close attention when loading the mags. Got a jam (fail to go fully into battery), instead of hitting the forward assist I just racked it & a fucking 350 legend came out D'oh! Thankfully a 350 Legend will not chamber in 300bo.

Since there are no pics for our entertainment here is an intentional 300bo blowup with almost the exact same damage you describe.

Now we need a Petra loaded up with pistol powder...for science. To the OP glad your buddy is GTG.

 

[Scotts556]

Sounds like he needs to read the ABC's of reloading again. Low batteries in my low/double charge sensor and not visually checking every case sounds like piss poor fucking reloading practices to me. Glad your buddy is okay, and hopefully this is a reminder to pull his head out when he is reloading.

Scott

 

[Mike_in_FL]

This doesn't sound like a squib that sticks a bullet to me. This sounds like a case of detonation. I've yet to see a squib boom without bullets stuck in the barrel and certainly for a .300 BO kaboom that swages .308 bullets to .224.

 

[Old Soldier]

Out at Altus Saturday, a buddy of mine with a nice BCM had it blow up (literally) Cracked the barrel at the chamber, cracked the upper receiver, blew apart the bolt catch mechanism, turned the extractor into a weird U shape, Enlarged the Magwell and turned a Pmag into shrapnel. He tore it down, found nothing in the bore but then realized the ammo he was running was a batch where the batteries got low on the sensors on his loading equipment (or something to that affect) and he may have had a squib that got past him in that batch. What we suspect happened was a squib left a bullet in the bore, the next cycle just clicked, he slap and racked it thinking bad primer, clicked again, slap and racked again, hit the bolt assist and BOOM! Good thing he had eyes on, he took a bit of shrapnel to the face...
We can't connect all the dots with any other scenario except a squib left an obstruction in the barrel and resulted in catastrophic failure. The explosion blew the back of the bullet out and I guess the Magwell was the closest way out for the pressure. We found nothing in the bore, we think the last rd cleared out the bore, but we are guessing as to what happened. The squib did not sound any different as far as he can remember, he is a very well versed shooter and would have likely noticed it.
We have had squibs in pistols and the sound is very different as you would expect, you clear it and get on with it. In AR's you can certainly have a failure to fire, you slap, rack and try to get the gun back in the fight, but this time that ended very badly. Nothing against BCM, its a very well made weapon that runs like a cheetah, we are convinced the failure was due to an ammo issue, but he never loads hot in AR rds, so it really only leaves a squib (?)
Anyone run into this??
Just trying to nail this down...
Thanks

The O in SPORTS is Observe. Look at the ejected round. Is there a bullet in it? If there is, where did it go? If it left the barrel, why did the action not cycle? Those are clues. Should have stopped when he ejected a round with no bullet in it. I know he was in a hurry. Got plenty of time now.

 

[skullbox]

I was running 5.56 and had a PMAG with (1) 300 BO in the bottom. On the rebound from the previous 5.56 round it chambered and went into battery with the 300 BO round. Next trigger pull, KABOOM! Here is what a 308 bullet swagged into a 5.56 chamber looks like...

 

[roostercogburn98]

Severely undercharged round and flashover maybe? Has been rumored to cause booms in guns.

 

[secm]

Out at Altus Saturday, a buddy of mine with a nice BCM had it blow up (literally) Cracked the barrel at the chamber, cracked the upper receiver, blew apart the bolt catch mechanism, turned the extractor into a weird U shape, Enlarged the Magwell and turned a Pmag into shrapnel. He tore it down, found nothing in the bore but then realized the ammo he was running was a batch where the batteries got low on the sensors on his loading equipment (or something to that affect) and he may have had a squib that got past him in that batch. What we suspect happened was a squib left a bullet in the bore, the next cycle just clicked, he slap and racked it thinking bad primer, clicked again, slap and racked again, hit the bolt assist and BOOM! Good thing he had eyes on, he took a bit of shrapnel to the face...
We can't connect all the dots with any other scenario except a squib left an obstruction in the barrel and resulted in catastrophic failure. The explosion blew the back of the bullet out and I guess the Magwell was the closest way out for the pressure. We found nothing in the bore, we think the last rd cleared out the bore, but we are guessing as to what happened. The squib did not sound any different as far as he can remember, he is a very well versed shooter and would have likely noticed it.
We have had squibs in pistols and the sound is very different as you would expect, you clear it and get on with it. In AR's you can certainly have a failure to fire, you slap, rack and try to get the gun back in the fight, but this time that ended very badly. Nothing against BCM, its a very well made weapon that runs like a cheetah, we are convinced the failure was due to an ammo issue, but he never loads hot in AR rds, so it really only leaves a squib (?)
Anyone run into this??
Just trying to nail this down...
Thanks

I can understand the damage but never saw a barrel split at the breach. Sounds more like a dubbble load to me. Next time don't just try to cllear it, view it with a visual inpection before you lose an eye! Stay safe.

 

[ptamim]

I wouldn’t today, but back in the early ‘80s, before I had a press, I bought hundreds of .38 & .357 reloads at gun shows from a company I think was called Georgia Arms. Never had an issue, so was probably lucky I guess.

Have purchased plenty of ammo from Georgia Arms... 5.56, .44, .45 and never had any issues.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I can understand the damage but never saw a barrel split at the breach. Sounds more like a dubbble load to me. Next time don't just try to cllear it, view it with a visual inpection before you lose an eye! Stay safe.

Unless he's running a really light charge of the wrong powder, it's almost impossible (almost...) to double charge a .223.

 

[secm]

Poin takin but to blow a breach, that's new to me in a small caliber?

 

[secm]

I'v been a PRS shooter for years with everything from 6.5 to 50 bmg, never saw this.

 

[skullbox]

Come to think of it, I'm not sure a 5.56 squib will have enough power with just a primer to push a bullet into the chamber. I'll make one later to test.

 

[JustSendit]

Come to think of it, I'm not sure a 5.56 squib will have enough power with just a primer to push a bullet into the chamber. I'll make one later to test.

I don’t think it would, unless you have not resized the neck at all and there’s like no neck tension?

A undercharged round will do it though. I watched a guy trying to handload some subsonic rounds have a bullet get stuck. Luckily he suspected as much and didn’t send another. I’d say it made about 2-3” into the lands.

I’ve seen a few ARs detonate and it’s a pretty scary thing to be next to. Hoping I’ll never be behind one. Plus 1 on eye pro with the gas gun!

 

[FishDr]

I'v been a PRS shooter for years with everything from 6.5 to 50 bmg, never saw this.

PRS with a 50 BMG..... impressive. Now that takes some recoil management. NO FREE RECOIL with that one! LOL

 

[Ledzep]

Come to think of it, I'm not sure a 5.56 squib will have enough power with just a primer to push a bullet into the chamber. I'll make one later to test.

Not likely, unless you have no throat left. I've numbnutzed a reload or two before with no powder and it gets stuck with no chance of another round chambering.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

An obstruction in the bore will cause it to bulge or blow at the point of the obstruction. If that obstruction was a squib right in front of the chamber then the gas system would not have operated to cycle the round. I doubt it was a squib.

A fracture/defect in the barrel COULD do it but some stars would have to align to cause it to do more damage than blowing the barrel and upper receiver apart IMO. I don’t think this would cause the lower to blow also. So possibly possible but unlikely.

Given the barrel blew apart I don’t see how it could be a secondary ignition from being under charged, that would grenade the bolt, extension and receivers but it’s unlikely it would cause the barrel itself to fail.

My money is on a round charged with pistol powder. IMO it sounds like a high pressure event and unless he’s shooting some wild combo is unlikely he could get enough extra powder in their to cause this. Does he load for pistols? Any chance some powder got left in the hopper?

 

[scudzuki]

Run the rest of the reloads across a digital reloading scale. Fast and easy to find any un(der)charged cartridge(s).

There's way too much variation in case weight for this to provide an accurate picture of which rounds are under- or un-charged.

 

[hlee]

There's way too much variation in case weight for this to provide an accurate picture of which rounds are under- or un-charged.

I guess that depends on what you’re looking for. “Uncharged“ is easy to find with this method. My 6.5 creedmoor brass varies by only a few grains- and this is unsorted brass. A 223 that gets a 1/2 charge should also be east to find. Looking for 0.1s of grain differences will be fruitless, but a few 0.1s under/over in charge weight will not create a safety issue, which I what I would be looking for when weighing loaded cartridges. As someone already posted, using the correct powders, it is essentially impossible to double charge a 223 case. The real issue is running the progressive press with a faulty safety indicator (low batteries) and then not heeding the warnings that the gun was giving before it failed.

 

[hlee]

So, its a slow day and I have a bunch of range pick up brass under my loading bench, and a digital scale sitting on top of it. When I say "range pick up brass," it was shoveled from a police practice range and gifted to me- mud, shotgun hulls, disintegrating belt links, and whatever else as well. Much of it was pistol brass and I hosed it all down to remove the worst of the mud and then picked through it for the 223/5.56, which went into my vibratory tumbler (all told I had 25 full 5 gal buckets of "range brass" to sort through, and what I did not keep went to the local metal recycler). This is all to say that I'm not convinced that the brass is all spotless on the inside- and I found a few while doing this little experiment that were packed with tumbling media- so the weights may not be totally reflective of brass alone. I did not shine a light into them to see if they were totally free of dirt and media before weighing them. And, none of this is sorted by year of manufacture, just sorted by head-stamp. Additionally, only the lake city brass was deprimed- as I use this for my 223 reloads, so the others include the primer weight. I grabbed 20 pieces from each of the head-stamps in the bin. With a +/- 1 grain for the worst offender, I stand by running loaded cartridges across a digital scale to find gross reloading errors.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

who buys reloads at a gunshow?

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Sounds like he needs to read the ABC's of reloading again. Low batteries in my low/double charge sensor and not visually checking every case sounds like piss poor fucking reloading practices to me. Glad your buddy is okay, and hopefully this is a reminder to pull his head out when he is reloading.

Scott

Darwin missed another one. Im sure he will get another chance.

 

[secm]

PRS with a 50 BMG..... impressive. Now that takes some recoil management. NO FREE RECOIL with that one! LOL

Recoil was free, included in price!

 

[army_eod]

Glad he had eyes on. Too many stories like this to think it's ever ok to shoot an AR without them.

That’s interesting because we never wore eyepro when we were firing the M-16s on the range.

 

[secm]

Sombody up there likes him!

 

[pucker]

That’s interesting because we never wore eyepro when we were firing the M-16s on the range.

But they’ll make you wear an orange road-guard vest on your private motorcycle, off base, on your Sunday ride.

I don’t let bureaucrats manage my safety decisions.

 

[Blackeyes]

An obstruction in the bore will cause it to bulge or blow at the point of the obstruction. If that obstruction was a squib right in front of the chamber then the gas system would not have operated to cycle the round. I doubt it was a squib.

A fracture/defect in the barrel COULD do it but some stars would have to align to cause it to do more damage than blowing the barrel and upper receiver apart IMO. I don’t think this would cause the lower to blow also. So possibly possible but unlikely.

Given the barrel blew apart I don’t see how it could be a secondary ignition from being under charged, that would grenade the bolt, extension and receivers but it’s unlikely it would cause the barrel itself to fail.

My money is on a round charged with pistol powder. IMO it sounds like a high pressure event and unless he’s shooting some wild combo is unlikely he could get enough extra powder in their to cause this. Does he load for pistols? Any chance some powder got left in the hopper?

Yes, he reloads for pistols, 308, 556 and 300 Blackout. Loaded thousands of rds with no issues at all, but here we are. He's sending me pics tomorrow, Ill get em up. Starting to think from what Ive read that something similar to some other powder in the bottom of the hopper. He's not a noob who just started, he's loaded for years, and is pretty OCD about anything concerning weapons and safety practices. Probably the safest guy I shoot with, and we've shot together for several years.