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I pinged LWRC the other day to see if they sold any stripped lowers and they replied back indicating they do not and have no intentions to.
Bummer that they don’t, but nice that they answer emails!
I think you're on the right track here. Start with a general purpose 5.56 rifle(13" ~ 16") and learn what you like or dislike about it. You may find it excels in your intended uses and it makes one of your other planned builds (Shorty or SPR) redundant. After a lot of trial and error, I settled on this for my goldilocks 5.56 trio:
11.5" with AimPoint RDS for CQB
14.7" with lightweight 3-9x optic & backup RDS for general purpose use
18" Mk12 Mod 0 SPR with 2.5-15x scope (which I absolutely love, despite it being "obsolete")
I started with a few other 16" and 18" rifle configurations along the way before I got here. If I had just started with a PRI Mk12 instead of trying to "build a better mousetrap" as a beginner, I would have saved a few years and a lot of money that could have gone to more ammo and better optics. But sometimes you just have to figure things out the expensive way, and I learned a lot about building & planning through the process.
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Ma'an...............are you for real?
You're about to drop $15 K+, or thereabouts including optics & that's serious change.
I've tried a lot of stuff & built a lot of stuff, including 3 Knight's rifles including an LPR & 2 16" SR-15's so, here's my 2 cents worth.
You can easily buy 3 top shelf guns to cover your needs like KAC or LMT or JP or Radian or SanTan or....................
Or build them.
At the end of the day if you build, I'd direct you to 3 guns for starters, including losing the SBR...........just not worth the hassle & a 14.7" P&W'ed to 16" is mobile enough for 99% of most people's need & has a ton of flexibility & versatility.
If building then
1. 14.7" P& W'ed to 16", Craddock Precision (Rock Creek) barrel, mid-gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
2. 16" lightweight fluted Craddock Precision (Rock Creek) barrel, intermediate-gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
3. 18" Craddock Precision Bartlein straight fluted barrel, rifle gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
Some commonalities
Whatever you want for MD / suppressor, White Sound FOSSA, flash hider if not suppressed.........virtually 100% flash suppression.
JP, Young Mfg. or RCA bolt carriers across the board, HM Defense improved bolt with blind hole for cam pin...greatly improves strength of the bolt. (Young was selling them as a unit, not sure now; HM Defense also sells complete units)
If you don't want an AGB, look at RCA's adjustable gas key & bolt carrier................Equals the performance of most AGB's But you have to remove the BCG to adjust it.
Geiselle charging handles are top of the heap, as are Radian's Talon ambi or single sided safeties. Period.
Plenty of good barrels & suppliers, but Paul Craddock has been so good to work with that I find it really had to not buy from him, but CLE, & WOA are also great, WOA just not as flexible as the other two. Both Craddock & CLE offer several blank manufacturers to choose from. WOA is a bit more limited both on blank choice & contours.
Geiselle SSA-E Two-stage triggers across the board, no need for more, & you'll regret less.
Just my thoughts............you can do all that needs doing with the above.
As for optics, an Eotech on the 14.7". a NF of your choosing on the other 2. NF has great QA & they make an offering for however you might want to configure a rifle.
Options are endless, ever body to their own desires.
JMHO, YMMV
MM
You're about to drop $15 K+, or thereabouts including optics & that's serious change.
I've tried a lot of stuff & built a lot of stuff, including 3 Knight's rifles including an LPR & 2 16" SR-15's so, here's my 2 cents worth.
You can easily buy 3 top shelf guns to cover your needs like KAC or LMT or JP or Radian or SanTan or....................
Or build them.
At the end of the day if you build, I'd direct you to 3 guns for starters, including losing the SBR...........just not worth the hassle & a 14.7" P&W'ed to 16" is mobile enough for 99% of most people's need & has a ton of flexibility & versatility.
If building then
1. 14.7" P& W'ed to 16", Craddock Precision (Rock Creek) barrel, mid-gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
2. 16" lightweight fluted Craddock Precision (Rock Creek) barrel, intermediate-gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
3. 18" Craddock Precision Bartlein straight fluted barrel, rifle gas, 13.7" SLR, Geiselle MK-14 or Midwest Lightweight rail, SLR AGB, SLR or SanTan receiver set.
Some commonalities
Whatever you want for MD / suppressor, White Sound FOSSA, flash hider if not suppressed.........virtually 100% flash suppression.
JP, Young Mfg. or RCA bolt carriers across the board, HM Defense improved bolt with blind hole for cam pin...greatly improves strength of the bolt. (Young was selling them as a unit, not sure now; HM Defense also sells complete units)
If you don't want an AGB, look at RCA's adjustable gas key & bolt carrier................Equals the performance of most AGB's But you have to remove the BCG to adjust it.
Geiselle charging handles are top of the heap, as are Radian's Talon ambi or single sided safeties. Period.
Plenty of good barrels & suppliers, but Paul Craddock has been so good to work with that I find it really had to not buy from him, but CLE, & WOA are also great, WOA just not as flexible as the other two. Both Craddock & CLE offer several blank manufacturers to choose from. WOA is a bit more limited both on blank choice & contours.
Geiselle SSA-E Two-stage triggers across the board, no need for more, & you'll regret less.
Just my thoughts............you can do all that needs doing with the above.
As for optics, an Eotech on the 14.7". a NF of your choosing on the other 2. NF has great QA & they make an offering for however you might want to configure a rifle.
Options are endless, ever body to their own desires.
JMHO, YMMV
MM
No, after the 8th, all magazines with capacity over 10 rounds will be illegal to buy.
You can still keep magazines that are 10-rounds or more, but there are a lot of rules about where you can use and pocess them. It's got to be your own property, you have to transport them in a locked case separate from the firearm, you can only use them on a gun range, etc. etc. etc.
It's not about the date of the magazine but the capacity size.
I've dropped that amount of money in the past 3 weeks on firearms alone. Next year will be double that amount, I've got to make up for lost time. And that's not including Optics or Suppressors.
I am getting pre-built uppers to serve as backups to the ones I build, I've settled on Larue, BCM, and Daniel Defense for AR-15, I'll also save for a Geissele Super Duty but that'll be in a couple of years, and two Aero Precision for AR-10. But the rest of my builds will be built by me so that I can have a say of what goes into my builds.
It was a hard decision for me, on whether to get a top shelf rifle, or buy and build a bunch of rifles and I settled on the latter. I just want it so that if something goes wrong with one or two guns, I'll have many more as backup. Plus, one of my AR-10's will be a LMT MWS giving me exposure to quality and reliability at its finest.
I would like to know more about why SBR's are a hassle, because everyone else in this thread has been telling me to SBR a few of my rifles. You make a good point that they are just as easy and flexible, plus the weight difference is not that drastic (I don't think). Maybe when I add optics, flashlight, bipod, etc. it will, but I don't know.
You're the third person to recommend SLR AGB, I'll have to check them out. I've also gotten recommendations for RCA and LMT bolts, which is good.
I have not heard of Craddock Precision though, or CLE or WOA. I'll look them up online and on Youtube. That's a lot to worth haha, thanks a bunch for your input.
This. One lower, multiple uppers. If you don't NEED to have different stocks, for example, there's no reason to go with multiple lowers if you don't have to. I mean, if you want to, go for it, but it saves some space and certainly some $$ and paperwork.
Example: I'd like to do a SEAL-inspired Recce but with some alterations. A typical M4 stock, magpul or LMT or something, would be great for that. I also want a Mk 18 upper for it, too. No reason to change the stock setup. And for funsies, a Mk 12 upper, either Mod 0 or Mod H. Again, same stock setup is good for a clone-ish build, although I could be convinced to give an ACE SOCOM a try because I like the look.
Example #2: My retro Vietnam-style AR-15s are a pair of uppers sharing one XM16E1 solid-stocked lower; the carbine upper isn't an exact copy of anything but it wasn't unheard of for OG SEALS and SOG to pair a carbine upper with their rifle lower for the fire rate and recoil-reduction the rifle buffer provided. It seems that it's not uncommon for their modern descendants to use multiple uppers with a single lower, just swapping out before mission based on what they need.
You know why you do multiple lowers? To give one to your wife, kid, neighbors. I did the multipl upper game for a little bit and that got old quickly. Everyone should have more AR’s then just one for them. Never know when they might need to be passed out.
Kinda like buying one stock but multiple barreled actions. That sucks. Or one scope to move around to different barreled actions. Can you do it? Yes but is it a pain in the ass? Yes.
Kinda like buying one stock but multiple barreled actions. That sucks. Or one scope to move around to different barreled actions. Can you do it? Yes but is it a pain in the ass? Yes.
Well, if you've been around here for 3 years now, & if you haven't heard of Craddock Precision, CLE or WOA, you surely haven't been reading much or were asleep while you were......................those are w/o a doubt 3 of, if not, THE 3 most mentioned & discussed barrel suppliers on this site.
When it comes to accuracy, people like BCM, Geiselle & DD aren't even mentioned in the same breath...........LaRue is just on the fringe................& no, accuracy gives up nothing to reliability. A guy (or a company) can do a build on a Bartlien, barrel that is just as reliable as any Geiselle ever built.
The epitome of that comment culminates with MSTN (well known poster here).................you can see a few (actually lot) of his guns in the Picture Thread sticky.
You seem to have picked up some insights, but those seem more superficial than well founded on knowledgeable understanding & comprehension of the animal in play here.
But anyway, Good Luck with your projects; I'm really glad to see people pumping $$$$ into the industry................there are a lot of really, really smart people on this site & a lot of wannabe's too................just sayin'.
FWIW
MM
I like this. But the reason for many lowers is that someone in this thread said to get lowers just to be safe in case the gun gets damaged from like a bad round exploding. Again I don't know much about AR-15's as this is my first venture into them, but I just want to have extras lying around in case I live in a future where I need a lower but my state won't allow me to, or like the current environment where I'm definitely not going to buy anymore firearms here in Oregon because of the new laws that have been passed. I want backup lowers. But I like your point about having less lowers and going with many uppers depending on my need and use case. I think I'll focus my builds on getting or building more uppers, thank you for this.
I will, 6 Aero Precision lowers, and my collection will be complete! Thanks for the update.
Now that's a whole nother world I haven't even considered, but thanks for bringing it up. I wouldn't even know where to start, I'll watch some youtube videos and read some reviews online on reloading.
This is my plan. In addition to getting multiple complete Uppers, I'm putting in an order right now to Aero Precision just to have extra lowers lying around.
I'm thinking of SBR-ing 3 lowers to start, and only building out one SBR but having the other two as backup. I'm definitely going to get two suppressors (or more) in each caliber. You've rearranged my planning by having to get suppressors before I build out my guns but that is actually a better of going about this, I really appreciate this feedback.
This is a pretty cool two-rifle setup. I have no experience with Centurion barrels but I'll definitely look into that, also the CLE Bartlein's. It doesn't look like LMT makes the Specwar upper anymore but I'm sure I'll be able to find it online. I've heard plenty of good things about NF ATACR, it seems to be the most popular optic in this sub-forum.
I really like your emphasis on training with your firearms. Unfortunately I can only do that on my weekends but I guess that will be made easier by only building two guns first and getting really comfortable with them before building more.
You might want to order some fingerprint cards. I get mine from the ATF which are free. I use my local PD to print me, but I believe you can do it yourself??? You'll need 2 cards per lower. Good luck!
Training with your firearms is absolutely crucial and I don’t think it gets emphasized or talked about enough. LMT still makes the specwar upper and I just watched a live stream with one of their main reps, they are going to do more Specwar uppers. It might take a while though. Another option would be to buy your own parts for an upper, bcm mk2 receiver with noveske 12.5” barrel is another good option. Tons of other good uppers out there, vltor MUR, centurion, v7, etc.
Laughin' here..................when was the last time that you saw a BCM Mk2 stripped upper receiver for sale?
The only way they're selling them is in a complete upper, & even then with very limited availability.
But at least you qualified the comment by saying there are lots of other good uppers for sale............................
MM
Forged uppers and lowers are acyually harder these days to come by. the foundries just arent making em right now and when they do the runs are tiny it seems.
I haven't paid too close attention to specifics lately, but I haven't seen much for shortages; in fact BCM has had $60 blem uppers in stock for a couple of weeks & that's a steal these days...............I've used a lot of them & have never really found a "blemish" on any of them. Those usually go very quickly when they are available.
Most of the suppliers that I deal with are pretty well stocked as, overall, sales are down. I didn't see any real shortages on BF sales, either, but as I said, I've not looked too closely lately.
MM
Most of the suppliers that I deal with are pretty well stocked as, overall, sales are down. I didn't see any real shortages on BF sales, either, but as I said, I've not looked too closely lately.
MM
I thought those blem uppers that BCM sent the email out were MK2, but they were in fact their original. In another email they sent out around Black Friday they had “cosmetic blem mk2 receiver extensions” that’s where the confusion happened.
True, & in reality, if he were to choose well, there'd be little need to scrap much & that's probably his best bet.
He really doesn't know what he wants as he says he's new to the game & in this thread, he jumps at every wild ass new suggestion he gets.
If he did as you suggest, he's get guns that work & all he might really need to change would be trim / accessory type items.
But I really don't know the current availability of top shelf complete guns right now either................haven't bought any lately.
I really don't think, being relatively new, that he'd be well served by using various uppers (with different gas systems) on on a single lower unless all the uppers had an AGB or an adjustable carrier gas control system like the RCA adjustable gas key, such that he can tune the various uppers separately to a single lower....................sounds great, not always so simple in reality for a newbie.
He might oughta just call up MSTN & order up a half dozen nice guns from him...............especially since OR new edict is on hold. That way he'd get some gorgeous guns that actually work for all the $$$$ he wants to throw around.
MM
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January 2020.
That is just the price they used to be…OPEC uses this same tactic with gasoline prices y'all and we’re happy when gas falls to $4 instead of $5.
All of 2020 there were no blems, then finally once BCM put them in stock they jacked the price up 50% to $90.
@LilGucci Whats the rush? You have lowers in hand, the rest of the parts are relatively easy to get. I’m sure you have friends/family that don’t reside in OR. Should turn down the panic a couple notches.
You‘re much better off building a couple quality rifles, then investing in ammo and training. Kinda pointless to have dozens of high end pieces of kit and no idea how to use any of it.
You‘re much better off building a couple quality rifles, then investing in ammo and training. Kinda pointless to have dozens of high end pieces of kit and no idea how to use any of it.
If I were an easily offended person I’d be gasping at that last statement.
I have WAY more rifles than I have skills to use them in all the ways I feasibly could.
Hell, I own rifles I haven’t even shot.
Even more, I own Rifles I don’t have ammo for, and have ammo for rifles I don’t even own.
If the OP wants to learn by diving deep in building his own, it’s a great way to learn… especially for us hands-on and self-learning types.
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, and the OP probably knows himself better than we do, on addressing such means of learning and embracing a passion.
I felt all of this lol. I too have rifles I haven’t shot and I too have gun with no bullets!
Holy Mother of God...... what has this place evolved to?
MM
MM
well we're entertaining the musing of somone who thought Lil Gucci was a good username if that tells you anything.
Yeah, the stench of TROLL is rising; kinda got a whiff when he said he'd never heard of Craddock Precision, CLE or WOA.
MM
I've never built an AR-15 before, I'm just going off of youtube videos and online articles about the best AR-15 barrels. I don't even know what CLE is, and WOA (White Oak Armament) is a brand I've never seen on any "best barrels" youtube videos so far. Same for Craddock. The brands that keep coming up are Faxon, Balistic Advantage, Criterion, Daniel Defense, and Rainer Arms. I've heard of Shilen because my favorite gun maker, Radian, uses their barrels, and I know of Proof because it's been my dream to own anything from that brand, especially their carbon fiber barrel. But other than that, I don't know anything about twist rates, barrel profiles, best lengths for specific applications, or which brands to get; I'm sure I'll learn more about this as I begin building out my rifles in January.
But I've learned a lot along the way. Because of this thread, my plan is now to build out two AR's first, my general purpose 556 and my SBR 556, and put the other two guns on hold. In place of my other two AR-15's, I will be buying a lot of uppers, ammo, and suppressors.
I don't know anything about gas systems so this is something new I'm going to have to learn about and consider. I'll research adjustable gas blocks, I was originally just going to go with Superlative, SLR, and Seekins because those are the only names I know, but feel free to offer up more names for me to research, like RCA, so that I can have more options.
I've been building custom AR's for myself and others for well over 20 years. I applaud the OP for solving the most challenging issue in the original post - defining the "mission", the true "raison d'être" - of each project.
Fwiw, I didn’t mean for my post to be insulting, nor was I trying to flame the OP. Apologies if it did. I fully support every man, woman, and child embracing a new passion for this lifestyle we lead. I love the fact we have so many new shooters out there, even if it’s to the detriment of my being able to find powder/primers/ammo.
I also whole heartedly agree with everything you said.
@LilGucci, you do you bud, welcome to the sport and the hide. I will say though, taking classes is awesome. You learn new skill sets, meet new like minded people, see who‘s doing what with their rigs, has the latest glass, etc. Some of my best friends today, I met at a few of Frank‘s precision bolt gun classes.
No offense taken, for every person claiming I'm a troll or fed, there's been 5 or 6 great posts expanding my considerations for my builds and it's been great. I should really pay for the consultation I've gotten here, it's valuable advice that I feel I wouldn't get anywhere else. That's really one of my end goals next summer, when I take my CQB and long-distance courses, is to meet more of the local community and get more advice from their setups. It'll be great to train on my own, but it'll be funner to learn long range with other like-minded people to share this passion with, especially hunting. Right now I only have my brother but I hope to expand that going forward. Thanks for the encouragement man!
I agree if I were going that route the do it all I would just go 14.5 pin weld it flash hider maybe surefire or whatever can be a quick detach suppressor setup. If going that route.
You beat me to it might as well build a MK12 cloneish gun for that price.
I just didn't grow up with guns. I mean liked them, but I didn't really know anything about firearms or what guns are admired in the gun world. So I had no affinity for the MK12. I knew about the M110SAS from my brother who is in armed services but this thread is my first time discovering the MK12. I like what I've seen on youtube, just not sure if an Mk12 is relevant in 2022 considering how far we've come since then, but I guess it might be worth it just because of its acclaimed background in the military, especially special forces and Operator use.
Best advice ever. I mean if you're rolling in money do as you please. Being prior infantry 14.5 M4 with an acog. I had no problems room clearing, as well as reaching out to around 300 yards on a human target. When I got out of the army I was super anti AR 15, like fuck that gun every gun nerd has one. I carried one for 10 years in all types of set ups. Like alamo5000 stated focus on one thing at a time. I now have a FN military collectors m4 14.5 pin welded, eotech, streamlight/pressureswitch basically a sopmod1.5 build.
He hit it 100% on the head. Get training I'm in the same boat as you but with long gun/precision stuff now. Kinda feel like a lost puppy, with endless bones infront of me. I built mine to almost the same specs as what I carried. It feels like an extension of my body. Light training that is a new thing to me. Every unit I was in we never used lights on any weapons. Lights get you killed is what we were taught so PEQ15, nods of whatever flavor you like. Now that I'm a civilian having a light on my weapon feels so strange.
I'm currently getting my mk12 set up(drunk purchase never really cared for them minus the cool factor). A lot of guys I have met in the military including a guy that worked at Daniel Defense I've spoken suggested for a first ar, or for the one you rely on the most, look for something with contracts. HK, DD, Colt kinda went to shit, FN, something you know you can trust your life to out of the box. They build their stuff to be used on daily missions in warzones or law enforcement. The issue I was told with building stuff, as rewarding as it can be, is that if something doesn't want to work together or something fails it can cost you your life compared to a weapon system where everything was designed to work with each other parts-wise.
Oh you are correct it's not really relevant if you think about it. Same with our sniper sections M110s all the way. When the MK12 was designed I believe it was for the navy seal's to have a more accurate package, that could reach out a little bit further accurately, while not weighing too much. It wasn't even originally a complete weapon system. With all the research I've done it was just really the upper thrown on a a2 lower, no fancy trigger or anything. It all depends what you're building the spr for. If it's long-range precision 6.5 creedmore over the arc in my opinion. If you want to drop bodies .308 in my opinion like an m110. If you just want a very accurate ar out of the box with everything that comes with it the PRI mk12 upper for the sale prices on midway right now are hard to beat, not many people outside of this forum or the military will know what it is when you pull it out of the range, minus the OMG is that that gun Marcus Latrell carried in Lone Survivor lol.
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