My father recently passed down a Springfield Armory M 14 with composite black stock to me, along with a 1st Generation Government scope on it. While in the Marines I used the M 16 an admit that I have almost no knowledge of the M 14 weapon, however while doing some research on the scope I came across some odd pictures on the internet of the scope. While looking through the scope, the two "hills" at the bottom of the scope should align perfectly with the vertical portion of the cross hair in the center. While looking through the scope I received, the vertical portion of the cross hair is approximately two thirds to the right in between the two hills. This is only the case when it is on low magnification, when it is on high magnification it aligns perfectly. Is there a reason behind this? Is it some sort of range finder function, and if so what is the purpose? Any help is greatly appreciated!
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Rifle Scopes Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
- Thread starter mamosley
- Start date
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
welcome to the Hide, now fill out your profile please!!!
welcome to the Hide, now fill out your profile please!!!
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
mamosley,
I recently aquired a springfield 2nd gen.
I did a variety of searches on the net and found an instruction manual online. I saved the info on another computer, but can post it tomorrow. Just google the scope and I bet u can find it.If not, lemme know and Ill get it to ya.
Welcome to the hide.
mamosley,
I recently aquired a springfield 2nd gen.
I did a variety of searches on the net and found an instruction manual online. I saved the info on another computer, but can post it tomorrow. Just google the scope and I bet u can find it.If not, lemme know and Ill get it to ya.
Welcome to the hide.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Here ya go:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8790
Good luck, sir!
P.S. - Please fill out your profile. Thx!
Here ya go:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=8790
Good luck, sir!
P.S. - Please fill out your profile. Thx!
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Ok, I read that guide (and actually found it online last night) and it really doesn't address the issue that I seem to be having. It doesn't say anything about aligning the target with the two "hills" at the bottom of the scope, or why the vertical reticle would not be aligned between them. I might just be paranoid, but it seems a bit odd. Would anyone that has one be able to see if theirs does the same thing?
Thank you all for the help so far, I really appreciate it.
Ok, I read that guide (and actually found it online last night) and it really doesn't address the issue that I seem to be having. It doesn't say anything about aligning the target with the two "hills" at the bottom of the scope, or why the vertical reticle would not be aligned between them. I might just be paranoid, but it seems a bit odd. Would anyone that has one be able to see if theirs does the same thing?
Thank you all for the help so far, I really appreciate it.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
By "hills" do you mean the posts for the bubble level?? If so, it works just like any other level (at least in theory). When the bubble is between the two posts (with equal space on each side of the bubble), the scope should theoretically be level which is critical for use of the rangefing/BDC reticle and shooting at extended ranges. There are a couple of issue.
First and foremost, is your scope properly leveled in terms of the reticle. An improperly installed scope can cause the reticle to appear canted while the bubble level is "level (or vice versa). I don't think this is your problem, because the bottom of the reticle should still appear in the middle of the two bubble level posts regardless of a little cant/tilt of the scope to one side or the other.
Second, the likely source of your problem, the majority of the SA scopes had more than their fair share of problems, including unlevel bubble levels, canted reticles, and so on. My guess is that you have one of many scopes that are not "in spec" for one reason or another and that it may require repair by SA/Hakko (good luck with that).
By "hills" do you mean the posts for the bubble level?? If so, it works just like any other level (at least in theory). When the bubble is between the two posts (with equal space on each side of the bubble), the scope should theoretically be level which is critical for use of the rangefing/BDC reticle and shooting at extended ranges. There are a couple of issue.
First and foremost, is your scope properly leveled in terms of the reticle. An improperly installed scope can cause the reticle to appear canted while the bubble level is "level (or vice versa). I don't think this is your problem, because the bottom of the reticle should still appear in the middle of the two bubble level posts regardless of a little cant/tilt of the scope to one side or the other.
Second, the likely source of your problem, the majority of the SA scopes had more than their fair share of problems, including unlevel bubble levels, canted reticles, and so on. My guess is that you have one of many scopes that are not "in spec" for one reason or another and that it may require repair by SA/Hakko (good luck with that).
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
I understand the use of the two hills, and the bubble underneath. I don't see the reticle as being "canted" so much as the verticle portion of the reticle moving slightly to the right as I turn the knob to zoom "in" for closer shooting. When fully zoomed out, the reticle aligns perfectly between the two hills, however when zoomed "in" it is slightly to the right. I understand the purpose of the hills is not to align the reticle but to ensure a level shot, but I assumed it would also align with the center of the verticle reticle. Does that make more sense? I guess I would really like to see a picture through the scope of one of these scopes with it at a minimum zoom, as all the pictures I've seen online are at the maximum.
I understand the use of the two hills, and the bubble underneath. I don't see the reticle as being "canted" so much as the verticle portion of the reticle moving slightly to the right as I turn the knob to zoom "in" for closer shooting. When fully zoomed out, the reticle aligns perfectly between the two hills, however when zoomed "in" it is slightly to the right. I understand the purpose of the hills is not to align the reticle but to ensure a level shot, but I assumed it would also align with the center of the verticle reticle. Does that make more sense? I guess I would really like to see a picture through the scope of one of these scopes with it at a minimum zoom, as all the pictures I've seen online are at the maximum.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
A rose by any other name...!!!
The fact that "the vertical portion of the reticle" is "moving slightly to the right" when zooming is indicative of one of many problems with these cheap, gimmicky scopes. I have owned these scopes in the past and it is NOT normal for the reticle to move as you described. Even though it is an FFP reticle and therefore increases and decreases in size as it zooms in and out through the range of magnification, it should not have any side-to-side movement at all. If the reticle is shifting side to side, even slightly, it is going to throw off your POI as you move through the magnification range.
Threads on these scopes have been popping up like a bad penny in the last few weeks. Somebody here may be able to take a pic of one of their scopes at min and max magnification ranges to show you that the reticle should remain centered between the posts through the magnification range.
A rose by any other name...!!!
The fact that "the vertical portion of the reticle" is "moving slightly to the right" when zooming is indicative of one of many problems with these cheap, gimmicky scopes. I have owned these scopes in the past and it is NOT normal for the reticle to move as you described. Even though it is an FFP reticle and therefore increases and decreases in size as it zooms in and out through the range of magnification, it should not have any side-to-side movement at all. If the reticle is shifting side to side, even slightly, it is going to throw off your POI as you move through the magnification range.
Threads on these scopes have been popping up like a bad penny in the last few weeks. Somebody here may be able to take a pic of one of their scopes at min and max magnification ranges to show you that the reticle should remain centered between the posts through the magnification range.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Sounds to me like your scope may be tweaked, the Vertical line should remain in the middle regardless of magnification. I haven't noticed the probelm you're having with my 1st gen.
Brad
Sounds to me like your scope may be tweaked, the Vertical line should remain in the middle regardless of magnification. I haven't noticed the probelm you're having with my 1st gen.
Brad
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Just took this pic, the lines at the bottom to align the bubble in are not easy to see but this is at 14x and the verticle line is centered
Brad
Just took this pic, the lines at the bottom to align the bubble in are not easy to see but this is at 14x and the verticle line is centered
Brad
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Ahhh, I see. Well, it looks just like the pic above at 14x, but not at 4x. I guess I have a bad scope
That's really disappointing because I don't have enough cash right now to get a new one.
Ahhh, I see. Well, it looks just like the pic above at 14x, but not at 4x. I guess I have a bad scope
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Springfield Armory is still warrantying these scopes even though they have not been offered for some time now. The problem is that they have to be serviced through Hakko (the mfg) in Japan. It can take a loooong time to get warranty work performed and you may or may not get the problem resolved when it gets returned to you. Call or e-mail them and see what they can offer you:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/contactus.php
Besides the warranty repair route, if you set the scope at a certain power, zero it at that power and leave it there, then it may be okay for you, but you'll have to test it to make sure. It may not hold zero at all since the reticle is already moving under zoom...but again, you'll have to test it out.
Springfield Armory is still warrantying these scopes even though they have not been offered for some time now. The problem is that they have to be serviced through Hakko (the mfg) in Japan. It can take a loooong time to get warranty work performed and you may or may not get the problem resolved when it gets returned to you. Call or e-mail them and see what they can offer you:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/contactus.php
Besides the warranty repair route, if you set the scope at a certain power, zero it at that power and leave it there, then it may be okay for you, but you'll have to test it to make sure. It may not hold zero at all since the reticle is already moving under zoom...but again, you'll have to test it out.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Thanks for the link, ORD. Do you have any suggestions for another scope if I wanted to simply purchase one in the future, perhaps this summer? It's a Springfield M 14 with the composite black stock, and I'd like to spend less than a grand if I can...
Thanks for the link, ORD. Do you have any suggestions for another scope if I wanted to simply purchase one in the future, perhaps this summer? It's a Springfield M 14 with the composite black stock, and I'd like to spend less than a grand if I can...
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
If you decide to replace your SA scope...the best scope for your M1A will depend on your intentions with the rifle (i.e. - ranges you plan to shoot, your use for the rifle such as hunting, etc. and the game you plan to hunt with it, etc.), how much magnification you want/need, and the features you want/need.
For a budget of $1k or less...you have a ton of very suitable options at your disposal. Another concern for your rifle is what scope mount do you currently have installed? If it is the standard 3rd Gen SA mount or an el cheapo B-Square, etc. mount, you may also want to consider a mount upgrade as well. A suitable replacement mount (Sadlak, etc.) will take around $250 out of your budget leaving you $750 or less for a scope (still plenty of options for that price range).
If you decide to replace your SA scope...the best scope for your M1A will depend on your intentions with the rifle (i.e. - ranges you plan to shoot, your use for the rifle such as hunting, etc. and the game you plan to hunt with it, etc.), how much magnification you want/need, and the features you want/need.
For a budget of $1k or less...you have a ton of very suitable options at your disposal. Another concern for your rifle is what scope mount do you currently have installed? If it is the standard 3rd Gen SA mount or an el cheapo B-Square, etc. mount, you may also want to consider a mount upgrade as well. A suitable replacement mount (Sadlak, etc.) will take around $250 out of your budget leaving you $750 or less for a scope (still plenty of options for that price range).
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
I just looked at mine again at 4x power, the vertical reticle is shifted to the left as compared to the lines for centering the bubble, never noticed it before.
As most, if not all the shooting I'll be doing is at 200yds or further I've pretty much just left it at 14x.
I just looked at mine again at 4x power, the vertical reticle is shifted to the left as compared to the lines for centering the bubble, never noticed it before.
As most, if not all the shooting I'll be doing is at 200yds or further I've pretty much just left it at 14x.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
bsybouts, it is shifted to the left and not right? Interesting...
bsybouts, it is shifted to the left and not right? Interesting...
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Gyrene,
Get an SWFA SS in 10x and be done with it. If you have a nicer budget for glass, go with a US Optics or NF or one of the other killer bits of kit.
If the mount is crap, go with one of the better ones from one of the American Companies that deal with M14's.
If you want a total M14 manual, try this:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/fm23_8/FM23_8A.pdf
Download is good, right?
Another source of superb info on the M14 comes from a fine group of Brothers over at http://m14tfl.com/upload/ The M14 Forum
Fulton Armory has some of the books avaialble for a small fee as well, but as you know, nothing beats just taking the thing apart over and over until you can do it in teh dark, and shooting it until your finger bleeds
Gyrene,
Get an SWFA SS in 10x and be done with it. If you have a nicer budget for glass, go with a US Optics or NF or one of the other killer bits of kit.
If the mount is crap, go with one of the better ones from one of the American Companies that deal with M14's.
If you want a total M14 manual, try this:
http://www.biggerhammer.net/manuals/fm23_8/FM23_8A.pdf
Download is good, right?
Another source of superb info on the M14 comes from a fine group of Brothers over at http://m14tfl.com/upload/ The M14 Forum
Fulton Armory has some of the books avaialble for a small fee as well, but as you know, nothing beats just taking the thing apart over and over until you can do it in teh dark, and shooting it until your finger bleeds
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mamosley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bsybouts, it is shifted to the left and not right? Interesting... </div></div>
Correct, at 4x it's off to the left...when you zoom in to 14x it actually looks centered.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mamosley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bsybouts, it is shifted to the left and not right? Interesting... </div></div>
Correct, at 4x it's off to the left...when you zoom in to 14x it actually looks centered.
Re: Springfield Armory 1st Gen scope question
Contact Springfield and get it fixed. I just looked at my 4-14 gen 1 and it is centered at all magnifications.
The glass is very clear and the ranging is straight forward.
Contact Springfield and get it fixed. I just looked at my 4-14 gen 1 and it is centered at all magnifications.
The glass is very clear and the ranging is straight forward.
