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Staball Match
- Thread starter Pickle Rick
- Start date
I ordered 8 lbs.
Testing it in 5.56 with 75 BTHP in a SPR
And in a 308 bolt guns with 178 BTHP.
Will post up with results.
Testing it in 5.56 with 75 BTHP in a SPR
And in a 308 bolt guns with 178 BTHP.
Will post up with results.
I didn’t have the chrono out that day but that’s next on my list. Will let you guys know.
Are you talking Staball 6.5? That is not a 308 powder. In fact, Hodgdon doesn’t list a single load for it in 308.
Maybe I have mis-spoken and I'm thinking of BLC. I'll do some looking through my notes tomorrow and get back with you. I don't remember the allocation of "6.5" being included in the title of staball so I'll have to go look.
You must be thinking of your loads with Staball 6.5 which has been out for a while and which is generally unsuitable for the 308.
However, you may have gotten a good load with it, IDK.
Staball 6.5 and Staball match are two DIFFERENT powders.
However, you may have gotten a good load with it, IDK.
Staball 6.5 and Staball match are two DIFFERENT powders.
You may have but then you also immediately doubled down on being wrong... twice. That’s why you are being treated like you’re an idiot.
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Lmao dude are you messing with us?
damn any chance you pulled that one shot on 24.9? Seems like a nice combo.
Probably! I wasn’t shooting very well that day because I way trying out a new front rest and wasn’t that comfortable with it yet… it was also pretty breezy.
I’m running a seating depth trial on two different charges of powder from that ladder test and I’m doing a seperate ladder going up to 25.6 grains of Staball Match. No pressure signs on any of that brass
Nope. I simply mis-spoke and now I'm paying the piper it seems. It'll be OK. Doesn't happen often but it does sometimes
OK, I reviewed StaBALL match. I didn't just focus on 77 grain, but my results were similar for 77 grain as member ZA206, for the same charge. I will try 24.8, 24.9, 25.2 in future, to see if its a sweet spot for the powder. I loaded until primers popped. Which was 26.0 grains using 77 SMK. I shot 2 times, and avg velocity was well over 2850 FPS out of the 20" WOA Shilen 5R in 1:7.5
Those are the 2 primers at 26.0 grains using 77 SMK. Stamped brass so hard, and cratered the primers. 1 and done brass.
This is 25.5 grains using 77 SMK. Too hot, cratered primers, stamped brass good, burs. that was average 2796 FPS.
this is 25.0 grains using Nosler 77 CC. marks on brass, you can see, but acceptable.
I would fathom to guess around 25.2 is going to get 2750 FPS.
Here is my data table:
short write up here, of how I felt about it.
StaBALL Match tested
This was tested using LabRadar in near freezing weather. I hope this helps somebody.
Any of the mainstream powders for 223/556 are also ideal for 308. This powder has to be one of the best ball powders you can buy for 308.
I would fathom to guess around 25.2 is going to get 2750 FPS.
Here is my data table:
short write up here, of how I felt about it.
StaBALL Match tested
This was tested using LabRadar in near freezing weather. I hope this helps somebody.
Any of the mainstream powders for 223/556 are also ideal for 308. This powder has to be one of the best ball powders you can buy for 308.
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Yeah. It is looking to be about 50 fps slower than 8208 from the reports here.
I will do some side by side comparisons when mine shows up. I have a personal range right next to my reloading table.
I will do some side by side comparisons when mine shows up. I have a personal range right next to my reloading table.
Debating if I should pick up 16# or 24# of this stuff while Bruno's has it for $265 per 8# jug. I'd be using it for 72s and 75s in a 28" 223AI and 77s in a 22" AR, and according to Hodgdon's 2023 burn rate chart I think the burn rate would work very well with the 72s-75s and longer barrel. Based on your data it would probably also work well with mag length 77s in my 22" AR.
My current go-to powder for 72s-77s in 223 & 223AI is H4895, but I just opened my last 8# jug and I haven't been able to get any more of it in the last 2.5 years. I ordered 10# of H4895 earlier this week at power valley when they had it in stock but their website had an inventory glitch and oversold the stuff so they had to cancel my order as they didn't have any left to send me.
With my luck, as soon as I order a bunch of Staball Match a big H4895 shipment will drop... LOL
Be nice if Quickload includes Staball Match and Staball HD in their next update, be nice to play around with the numbers and figure out a good load range.
My current go-to powder for 72s-77s in 223 & 223AI is H4895, but I just opened my last 8# jug and I haven't been able to get any more of it in the last 2.5 years. I ordered 10# of H4895 earlier this week at power valley when they had it in stock but their website had an inventory glitch and oversold the stuff so they had to cancel my order as they didn't have any left to send me.
With my luck, as soon as I order a bunch of Staball Match a big H4895 shipment will drop... LOL
Be nice if Quickload includes Staball Match and Staball HD in their next update, be nice to play around with the numbers and figure out a good load range.
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I would say that StaBALL, or ANY ball powder for that matter, in NO WAY is going to compete with H4895, or N135, or N140, or Precision Rifle, or Varget, or XBR8208, or AR Comp. for example. However, it could be handy replacement for powders like CFE2223, or AA2520, or AA2460, or H335, or W748, and a few other ball powders. Maybe PP MR-2000 too. I would not buy StaBALL to replace H4895. I would buy XBR8208 or N135 to replace H4895. I actually had many lbs of H4895, and I went to my club swap meet and sold them all, only to replace with N135, which I believe to be superior. Load data is practically identical too.
Kind of my feeling too, but hodgdon is certainly trying to market staball match and HD as viable match grade accuracy temp stable replacement powders in lieu of more typical stick powders given the improvements in additives and production methods. Possible? Yes, but it's still early and need more data to make a determination.
8208 is a good powder in 223 too, but availability has also been poor over the last couple years. Not as unobtainable as H4895 over the last several years, but not great either.
Varget has been very available lately, but I've tried varget in both my 223AIs in the past and while it was ok it was not as accurate and the velocity was slower than H4895. I'd rather not switch to varget.
I haven't tried N135 for the heavies in 223. I do use N133 for 40-50gr loads and it works very well.
@semperfireloading - That Sig brass has 1 of the largest capacities for 223 that I've checked @ 31.76 h2o once fired. I'm surprised you popped a primer at 26gr.Those are the 2 primers at 26.0 grains using 77 SMK. Stamped brass so hard, and cratered the primers. 1 and done
Did all my Staball Match testing so far in one of the smallest capacity cases IVI 223 @ 30.46 h2o once fired.
Got good speed in the 262 clone loads & I didn't see any pressure indicators @ 25.4 in the small IVI case.
The Match shot under moa, but accuracy wise 2520 beat it pretty badly in this recipe.
FYI - For anyone that uses Gordon's reloading tool. I've been using Accurate 2520 in place of Staball Match to figure out loads. These to powders are very close in 223. Take that with a grain of salt for other cartridges, since they may start deviating in a different case size.
Speeds swap between them using the same charge weight for both powders. In my 223 bolt gun 2520 was about 15fps faster avg for 77's, but for 88's the Match was 30fps faster. In the 18" AR with 77's Match is about 30fps faster avg. I think the Match will be good in 308. Will try it in a 18" 308 AR in the next few weeks. That gun runs factory 168 FGMM @ 2620 so I'll start testing Match with the 168smk in Federal, PMC & BH brass.
My observations so far based on 3 different 223W barrels, all with the same chamber & twist 10.5", 18", & 26":
I say the Match #112 new burn rate chart is placed correctly. Number 106 on the burn chart 2520 is very comparable load data wise in 223. Match seems to have a similar positive characteristic as Lever. It delivers a little more energy then I expected in the 18" AR. i.e. It's slower than 2520 & yet beat it for speed from the 18".
In the 26" barrel it had no ugly surprises on the upper end pushing 88's to 2847 & beating the 2520 by 30fps.
In the 10.5" barrel with 73eldm I ran 4 charges & it kept adding about 20fps per .3 gr (2473fps top load). Lever reached a plateau where adding more charge quite adding speed & just left the barrel un-burned. N135 is faster & won for speed in the 10.5, but not by as much as expected (2497fps top safe load). If I had a shorty 6ARC I'd be trying Match with heavies.
If temp stable as advertised, I think Match will become a staple for capacity challenged cartridges. Hopefully it will remain available like the 6.5 Staball. I'm not a huge fan of 6.5 Staball since those cartridges already have great powder options. 6.5 has to compete against H4350, RL16, N555 etc. What other temp stable powders compete with Staball match for MK262 speeds in a 223???? I think it's a winner!
I left out 8208 from the clone tests & it probably should have been included.
AR 223W 8T 18" Proof CF
MK 262 Mod 1 clone attempt
Comparison load - Black Hills White box 5.56 Lot #BLH04L061-001 Contract #W911SF-04-D-0007 (brass is WCC 04)
2721 SD 19.5 no group data cause it was way high after scope sight in @50
77SMK no canalure @2.253 Bolt lock
Staball Match
25.1 2772 / 3.6 / .822" No bolt lock on empty
25.4 2804 / 11.5 / .819" No bolt lock, no swipes, no flow. Will try at 25.7
Accurate 2520
25.1 2735 / 6.0 / .464" Bolt lock
25.4 2786 / 10.0 / .175" Bolt lock. I'd say this is safe under 50 degree top end load. Nothing ugly on brass.
TAC
25.0 2801 / 6.0 / .686" Bolt lock
25.3 2827 / 3.7 / .511" Bolt lock. I'd say this is safe under 50 degree top end load. Nothing ugly on brass.
Lever
25.9 2814 / 10.8 / .653" No bolt lock
26.2 2829 / 9.5 / .649" No bolt lock. Lever will be revisited at 26.5 & 26.8
The SL556, which weighs 97-98 grains, barely stamped the brass at 25.0 grains. Clearly, anything over around 25.0 grains is higher than SAAMI max pressure using a 77 SMK around mag length. Just like AA2520. I hope honestly, the StaBALL Match is like .5-.6 MOA at 2750 FPS, using like 25.2 grains. That would be ridiculous.
I just got my jug of Staball Match in today and ran some loads through my gun to just test velocity.
I will be ordering more of this stuff.
Here are the specs.
18" WOA SPR running a H3 buffer.
LC cases.
Win primers
75 gr Hornady BTHP
Hornady's starting load gave me 2600 fps
25.0 gr 2730 fps
25.3gr 2818 fps
25.5 gr 2824 fps
25.9 gr 2832 fps
I saw an ejector swipe on the 25.3 but not on any higher charges, so idk. Primers looked fine on all. The higher charges were flat, but not overly so.
Hodgdon's data tops out at 25.3 at 55K psi. As you can see from my shot data, the velocity seems to top out there so there is no reason to drive the pressure higher.
I did get noticeably more gas in the face as I went above the book max.
As seen above, this powder lets me beat MK 262 velocity with an easy metering powder that is supposedly temp stable.
It beat my hot 8208 load by 50 fps in the same gun.
I will be doing some temp sensitivity testing in the next few days.
Already, I will be picking up more of this stuff just based on the velocity numbers.
I will be ordering more of this stuff.
Here are the specs.
18" WOA SPR running a H3 buffer.
LC cases.
Win primers
75 gr Hornady BTHP
Hornady's starting load gave me 2600 fps
25.0 gr 2730 fps
25.3gr 2818 fps
25.5 gr 2824 fps
25.9 gr 2832 fps
I saw an ejector swipe on the 25.3 but not on any higher charges, so idk. Primers looked fine on all. The higher charges were flat, but not overly so.
Hodgdon's data tops out at 25.3 at 55K psi. As you can see from my shot data, the velocity seems to top out there so there is no reason to drive the pressure higher.
I did get noticeably more gas in the face as I went above the book max.
As seen above, this powder lets me beat MK 262 velocity with an easy metering powder that is supposedly temp stable.
It beat my hot 8208 load by 50 fps in the same gun.
I will be doing some temp sensitivity testing in the next few days.
Already, I will be picking up more of this stuff just based on the velocity numbers.
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Seems like I get about the same or a little more velocity with TAC , but the Staball Match is very likely to be more temp stable. I'd really be interested to know what kind or SD/ES numbers you get using that for 223. PM me if you want, there's a lot of fairy tales concerning SD/ES with 223. I've found it very difficult to get near the kind of SD I get with my 6.5 and 6cm loads even in my bolt gun. It would be awesome for this SM to work as well for velocity or close as TAC but have better temp stability and give better SD/ES.
Yeah. I'll do more testing tomorrow. Today was just a quick velocity run to see how well it would do there. Cause if it didn't beat 8208 there I would wait for more 8208.
I totally new to loading, I ordered 2 lbs of Match. Im using some new Hornady 6.5 CM brass that came primed. 143gr ELDX. I tried 41gr loading and experienced tight eject. I'm going down to 38 or 39 next. It appears I can't use a higher load with this Match ball powder. Using an Axis II Precision. Bolt lift on this rifle sucks with no round in the chamber, and the lands are really tight out of the box. Getting a chronograph next.
Jesus man, be careful out there! Hodgdon lists 38.5 as max with that class of bullet and match. Staball 6.5 would suit you better as far as winchester powders go for that bullet.
Thank you. I've been having a hard time finding information. I'll add that site to my bookmarks. Haven't done anymore until I found some solid info. Much appreciated.
You never forget something you learn the hard way. My searching led me here. I've got much to digest. I did make sure I wasn't bottoming on my lands, that probably would have been worse.
I couldn't find the Match powder listed
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You need a paper reloading manual buddy.
30 bucks for the latest Hodgdon manual is a cheap way to not blow up your gun.
Or, just call the folks at Hodgdon Monday.
30 bucks for the latest Hodgdon manual is a cheap way to not blow up your gun.
Or, just call the folks at Hodgdon Monday.
