Stevens 200 terrible groups

[callen3615]

Hey guys, Ive had my stevens 200 .308 for about 2 weeks now and finally got a chance to shoot it for more than 30 minutes.

I already had the scope close to zeroed in and today I wanted to see how it would group.

I dont know what ammo it likes yet so I bought some cheap PMC bronze .308s. The pmcs are 147gr. Ive already put about 11 rounds through it trying to break it in. I have ordered a bell and carlson medalist stock but apparently they cant keep them in stock to save their lives, and they have been backordered since the beginning of time.

Anyway, I shot 2 4 shot groups from 100 yards today before I got dissapointed and backed up to 500. The first was probably a 5 inch group and the second was maybe a 4.

My question is how can I shrink these? Better ammo or is it the notoriously flimsy stock that it destroying my accuracy?

Thanks for the help guys

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Let's see...poor rifle + poor ammo + poor base/rings + poor scope ='s poor performance?!!?

Only every time.

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Start with ammo, find what it likes. New stock will make a difference also

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Start with base/rings/glass and then procede,otherwise one is pissing up an endless rope.

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Considering he mentioned a having a scope and shooting the rifle, he probably has all this covered and can move on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with base/rings/glass and then procede,otherwise one is pissing up an endless rope. </div></div>

 

[Cegorach]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

The very first thing I would do is try some good match ammo. Get some Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175 and try that as it seems to shoot universally well out of any rifle that is even marginally well put together. When you do that bring along a buddy or somebody else who can shoot well so you can help rule out technique error as well.

If none of that makes any difference you can start looking deeper. Begin with the scope and mounting hardware. Make sure the base and rings are appropriately tight. While you do this you should also swap in a proven scope if available. Quality control on low end scopes is notoriously bad so I would definitely do this.

If all this checks out I would begin looking at the fit between the stock and barreled action. Slide a bill or piece of paper between the barrel and stock to make sure it is free floated and there are no points of contact. I would do this same test while you are in shooting position to confirm there isn’t any forearm flex that is causing contact.

Then you can check the torque job on the bolts holding the action to the stock. They can either be too tight, too loose, or a little of both. The last option was the case on my SPS-V when I first got it.

Another thing you can do, with the bolt out and the rifle unloaded, is do a quick inspection of the bore. If there are any defects visible to the naked eye there is a good chance it is the problem.

One more thing, what is the contour of the barrel? Is it a thin sporter-weight “pencil” affair? If so, excessive heating from only a few rounds easily cause it to walk shots all over the place. So next time you are at the range be sure and fire slowly and give it plenty of time to cool between groups.

If none of that works it is time to have a professional look at it and determine if it needs to be sent back.

Good Luck

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Considering he mentioned a having a scope and shooting the rifle, he probably has all this covered and can move on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with base/rings/glass and then procede,otherwise one is pissing up an endless rope. </div></div> </div></div>

I miss nothing,though you are good at missing the obvious.

Please cite the base/rings/glass in this equation.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cegorach</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The very first thing I would do is try some good match ammo. Get some Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175 and try that as it seems to shoot universally well out of any rifle that is even marginally well put together. When you do that bring along a buddy or somebody else who can shoot well so you can help rule out technique error as well.

If none of that makes any difference you can start looking deeper. Begin with the scope and mounting hardware. Make sure the base and rings are appropriately tight. While you do this you should also swap in a proven scope if available. Quality control on low end scopes is notoriously bad so I would definitely do this.

If all this checks out I would begin looking at the fit between the stock and barreled action. Slide a bill or piece of paper between the barrel and stock to make sure it is free floated and there are no points of contact. I would do this same test while you are in shooting position to confirm there isn’t any forearm flex that is causing contact.

Then you can check the torque job on the bolts holding the action to the stock. They can either be too tight, too loose, or a little of both. The last option was the case on my SPS-V when I first got it.

Another thing you can do, with the bolt out and the rifle unloaded, is do a quick inspection of the bore. If there are any defects visible to the naked eye there is a good chance it is the problem.

One more thing, what is the contour of the barrel? Is it a thin sporter-weight “pencil” affair? If so, excessive heating from only a few rounds easily cause it to walk shots all over the place. So next time you are at the range be sure and fire slowly and give it plenty of time to cool between groups.

If none of that works it is time to have a professional look at it and determine if it needs to be sent back.

Good Luck
</div></div>

Oh my...this is tempting,from start to finish.

 

[vman]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Are you shooting using bags, mechanical rest, etc ?

How tight is the trigger pull in your opinion?

Do you have shooters flinch?

Can you shoot other .308's (different rifles) under 1MOA at 100yards?

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Haha, you got me, I assumed he knows how to mount his base, rings and scope. I gotta quit that.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Considering he mentioned a having a scope and shooting the rifle, he probably has all this covered and can move on.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Start with base/rings/glass and then procede,otherwise one is pissing up an endless rope. </div></div> </div></div>

I miss nothing,though you are good at missing the obvious.

Please cite the base/rings/glass in this equation. </div></div>

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.

 

[clmayfield]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div>

Wow. 94 posts in 2 days. That must be some kind of a record. Selling something?

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

As in built out of spec or price wise?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div>

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Thanks for the responses, well at least the legitimate ones. Yes I am shooting with a bipod, the trigger pull is set to 3.5lbs, and I didnt flinch on any of those groups, I know how to shoot a rifle. My 17hmr gets 1 inch groups at 150 yds. I got the stevens in hope of replaceing the stock and making a shooter out of a cheap rifle. As far as the scope goes, Im using a mueller tactical. Ive heard nothing but good reviews on it. Never heard that the mueller wouldnt hold zero.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

I will try shooting some federal maybe some winchester 180gr and see how that works. I think the new stock will make a difference but it may take 3 months to get here.

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Try some 168gr also.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will try shooting some federal maybe some winchester 180gr and see how that works. I think the new stock will make a difference but it may take 3 months to get here.

</div></div>

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div>

Wow. 94 posts in 2 days. That must be some kind of a record. Selling something? </div></div>

Greed ain't my gig,everyone knows that. Just as comprehension ain't your's.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the responses, well at least the legitimate ones. Yes I am shooting with a bipod, the trigger pull is set to 3.5lbs, and I didnt flinch on any of those groups, I know how to shoot a rifle. My 17hmr gets 1 inch groups at 150 yds. I got the stevens in hope of replaceing the stock and making a shooter out of a cheap rifle. As far as the scope goes, Im using a mueller tactical. Ive heard nothing but good reviews on it. Never heard that the mueller wouldnt hold zero. </div></div>

Never heard of a Mueller holding zero. Whatcha running for base/rings?

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As in built out of spec or price wise?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div> </div></div>

A rifle is a system and no system is greater than it's weakest link. Conjoin a shoddy rifle,with shoddy optics,shoddy base(s),shoddy rings and feed it shoddy ammo and you'll be lucky if you receive results that are shoddy at best.

None of this is a mystery.

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Haha, ok dude.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div>

Wow. 94 posts in 2 days. That must be some kind of a record. Selling something? </div></div>

Greed ain't my gig,everyone knows that. Just as comprehension ain't your's. </div></div>

 

[Cegorach]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups




"A rifle is a system and no system is greater than it's weakest link. Conjoin a shoddy rifle,with shoddy optics,shoddy base(s),shoddy rings and feed it shoddy ammo and you'll be lucky if you receive results that are shoddy at best."

"None of this is a mystery."



Exactly.

It is just a matter of systematically testing each variable and identifying which one is primarily at fault.

 

[rockn30809]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

You can take a off the rack Savage combo from Wally world and shoot close to 1moa with it. Cheap ass rings, base and scope.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As in built out of spec or price wise?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div> </div></div>

A rifle is a system and no system is greater than it's weakest link. Conjoin a shoddy rifle,with shoddy optics,shoddy base(s),shoddy rings and feed it shoddy ammo and you'll be lucky if you receive results that are shoddy at best.

None of this is a mystery.

</div></div>

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Start with the rifle proper,prior to burning up a bunch of components,that will simply substantiate the obvious.

Beat the Mueller shut on both ends with a hammer,throw it off a cliff and chalk it up to experience. Score a good used Weaver T-series for naught,hang some sound rings/bases,then delve deeper.

A trigger tweak,dollop of bedding and then start with known quantities in regards to fodder,as an honest evaluation of potential.

The piss stream will then head down,as per always.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can take a off the rack Savage combo from Wally world and shoot close to 1moa with it. Cheap ass rings, base and scope.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rockn30809</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As in built out of spec or price wise?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OilyOwl</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Knowing how" is an issue seperate from the component particulars,which is/was the point.

Thus the perpetual upwards stream of piss.


</div></div> </div></div>

A rifle is a system and no system is greater than it's weakest link. Conjoin a shoddy rifle,with shoddy optics,shoddy base(s),shoddy rings and feed it shoddy ammo and you'll be lucky if you receive results that are shoddy at best.

None of this is a mystery.

</div></div> </div></div>

I never had much interest in seeing how hard I could make simplicity.

You can put windshield wipers on a Billy Goat's ass too and it'll "work".

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

LOL at oily owl. Anyway, I just checked the rifle. All the parts seem to be snug after 20 rounds. Im hoping that it is the stock. Im not gonna participate in competitions, this is just something I like to do on the weekend. I dont have 2000 dollars I can spend on a rifle so I just wanna get the max I can out of this setup.

 

[Jburt]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Man oily you're pretty good at being a dick.

 

[brand692]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Is it me or is there a shining personality coming through in OilyOwl?

 

[TresMon]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

+1 jburt

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

oily owl speaks from vast knowledge and experience, the minions that can not savvy his sage'd tomes are not worthy to carry his jock.

 

[cpt.creedmoor]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

hear hear..............

 

[paraman1]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Oilyowl , NOBODYSHOME , NOBODY and probably a host of other monikers I cannot think of off the top of my head is given free reign on the Hide . No rule applies to him . Just get that into your mind and it all will go easier for you . Your opinion or experience matters not , only his .

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jburt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Man oily you're pretty good at being a dick. </div></div>

I'm exceptional at being correct,none of which is on accident.

You'll need to find your warm/fuzzy elsewhere.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael N</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Oilyowl , NOBODYSHOME , NOBODY and probably a host of other monikers I cannot think of off the top of my head is given free reign on the Hide . No rule applies to him . Just get that into your mind and it all will go easier for you . Your opinion or experience matters not , only his . </div></div>

Great time to insert your profound "experience" here and you may as well proffer an opinion or two germane to the discussion.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL at oily owl. Anyway, I just checked the rifle. All the parts seem to be snug after 20 rounds. Im hoping that it is the stock. Im not gonna participate in competitions, this is just something I like to do on the weekend. I dont have 2000 dollars I can spend on a rifle so I just wanna get the max I can out of this setup. </div></div>

Snugged up junk,isn't going to help your situation.

For like funds,you could have been fielding a platform of far less concession and buying junk is an expensive lesson.

Few like to stretch a buck,more than I.

 

[learjet]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

try different ammo first. ive never got 147g fmjs to shoot 1 MOA or better in anything, springfields, garands, 03a3s, 1917, 308, 3006, etc boltguns. grabbed a bunch years ago. BH or FGGM would be a good starting point

dont know anything about mueller other than what ive read, which isnt terribly promising. but, most of the scope problems ive seen were failures to track, not failure to hold zero. if its mounted correctly the chances are ammos ur problem

the plastic stocks are poor, i simply cant stand them. however my sons bone stock wally world 10FP shot 1/2 MOA outta the box, w the rubber stock - and our base 308 hunting load.

dont let dim whitted mall ninjas get ya down, the rifle will likely shoot fine.

 

[Macduff]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brand692</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it me or is there a shining personality coming through in OilyOwl? </div></div>

Sounds like Nobody I've every heard before...

Dang...4 replies while I typed. I'm behind the curve.

 

[dntfxr]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Tighten the piss outta the base and rings to eliminate that possibility, then try some decent ammo before you dump the glass.
dntfxr

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Ok, thanks. I have heard that this rifle can obtain 1 moa pretty easily. I know the stock is an issue that will be resolved later. As far as ammo goes I will dump the 147gr and get some 165 and some 180 tomorrow and check it out.


Thanks alot for all the responses, even if some of them were asinine to say the least.

Lincoln once said, "'Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

 

[spaniel]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

You need to try a variety of rounds, preferably worked up as handloads. Match grade ammo is useless if your rifle does not like it and whatever jump to the lands it provides.

As for OilyOwl, from his style this is the same dipshit that has been repeatedly banned on another forum yet keeps coming back every 3-4 days under another name and racking up 30-40 posts in 2-3 hrs before being banned again. It takes a special kind of desperate and stupid to keep coming back for that.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

You boys are welcome to your window licking,but please keep commenting about all your adventures.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

I dont have the means to handload yet. I wanted to figure out what the rifle liked before I bought all the necessary tools to handload.

Once I find the correct weight I might start to handload. I have never handloaded, but from what I read I am perplexed by all the options available for .308s.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Few things matter less than "weight",if only for starters.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

I may have found evidence that proves the stock is to blame for some of the problems.

I painted the barrel and stock 2 days ago, this is the first time since that I have shot it. I have found small nicks in the paint on the barrel. It appears that the barrel has been hitting the stock when it is being fired. Here are some pics:

The beast in question

Small nicks on barrel

More nicks on the opposite side

Is the barrel supposed to move laterally like this when it is fired? I would not think so. Is this symptoms of a flimsy stock?

 

[dntfxr]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Remove the bipod.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Why?

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Shooting a shit stock from a bipod,is adding even more difficulty than that which is inherent(that's a bunch too).

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Forgive me, but I dont understand why a bipod on a freefloated barrel rifle would hurt the accuracy. Would bags be better?

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

The shit stock is flimsy and a bipod's interaction on the fore end exacerbates that weakness and springs things awry before/during/after the shot.

None of these things aid Precision. Keep the stud away from the bags as well.

 

[callen3615]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

Ah I understand. So the bipod makes it more flimsy due to its position away from the action.

 

[OilyOwl]

Re: Stevens 200 terrible groups

The farther you get from amidship,the more flex inherent. Bipod bitchslap is a glaring accuracy bane.