Still having problems with stevens 200

callen3615

callen3615

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 27, 2010
102
13
35
Peidmont, NC
#1
Hey guys, I know we all remember the previous thread about my stevens 200.

If you didnt here is my stevens:
100_2474.jpg


Stevens 200 action/barrel
Rifle basix trigger @ 1 lb
Choate tactical stock
Mueller APT 4.5-14x40
EGW base
Burris Xtream tactical rings
Brownells tactical bolt handle


Well today I got my replacement stock in. A choate tactical.

http://www.combatstocks.com/Choate_TACTI...erfeed_Only.cfm

Well anyway I put the new stock on and went to go shoot it in hopes that it would solve my issues. (Before it was shooting 3-8 inch groups @ 100 yds) NOTE: I didnt take it to be skim bedded.

It still shot like it did before.
I shot remington 150gr, federal 150gr, winchester 180gr, and
my hand loaded 175 smk too. Best group was 3 inches.

So what do you think the problem is?

Do you think a skim bedding would solve the problem? or do you think it is my scope?

My scope is a mueller apt http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=119010

I havent heard of anyone that had a mueller that didnt hold zero.
 
#2
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Only one sure fire way to find out. Put a trusted scope on it and try it again. Process of elimination. Start with ring and base screws first. Make sure they're not loose, then try a known good scope.
 
#4
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Try 168gr ammo also.... My barrel hated 150s and I've not tried anything heavier than 168 yet. I'll let you know when I finally shoot my 175gr black hills.

Good luck,
Merritt
SGT USMC vet.
 
#5
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

sell it and buy a Remington, always seems to work for me but for real sorry man that sucks, the rifle problems i mean
 
#7
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popeye089</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sell it and buy a Remington, always seems to work for me but for real sorry man that sucks, the rifle problems i mean </div></div>

Haha, too late for that.

Ive put too much money in it to sell.


There cant be much more wrong with it. Ive swapped out every part except the scope and barrel.


The only other thing I haven't tried is to bed it.


My new stock has a aluminum bedding block so I think I am going to have it skim bedded tomorrow.
 
#8
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GunGuru727</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have another person shoot it and see if they have the same problem. Not saying your a bad shot. Just an idea.

GG </div></div>

Not at all. I am not a great shot. Im a newbie. But I do have a 17hmr and I dont have problems grouping that rifle.
 
#9
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Is that a factory barrel on the gun? Shouldn't be a problem but maybe, just maybe you got a bad barrel... But I would try borrowing a scope somehow and change that out first. With the aluminum bedding block on the Choate you shouldn't have to worry bedding it yet. If you change the scope and it is still shooting "off", go to Northlander on savageshooters.com and get a factory barrel from him to shoot; all else fails that may be your problem.
 
#10
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Who is doing your bedding. As I mentioned in my email make sure they float the tang properly. But I'm leaning towards scope or loose action screws. I had loose action screws once after adjusting my trigger and was getting wild groups as well.

Good luck,
Merritt
 
#11
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Where do you live, perhaps you are close enough to another member to get hands and eyes on help?

Alternately there must be a competent gunsmith within driving distance who could go over the rifle and find its problems?
 
#12
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

My first guess would be that there's possibly a problem with the crown.

Close examination of the junction between the muzzle face, the lands and grooves, and first inch or so of bore under magnification should look very consistent all the way around the crown. If it isn't, I'd take it to a reputable gunsmith and have them confirm whether the crown is intact or not.

Next, the Optics should be swapped with a Scope of known excellence, <span style="font-style: italic">after</span> confirming that the Base(s) and Rings are properly mounted and secured.

IMHO, aside from potential operator error, there's very little immediately obvious reason for the results you're getting.

Also, a trigger pull of 1lb, while a sounds cool, may be a bit light. I never go below a pound and a half.

Greg
 
#13
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: popeye089</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sell it and buy a Remington, always seems to work for me but for real sorry man that sucks, the rifle problems i mean </div></div>

Haha, too late for that.

Ive put too much money in it to sell.


There cant be much more wrong with it. Ive swapped out every part except the scope and barrel.


The only other thing I haven't tried is to bed it.


My new stock has a aluminum bedding block so I think I am going to have it skim bedded tomorrow. </div></div>


"There can't be <span style="font-weight: bold">THAT</span> much more wrong with it"

Uh, yes there can. PS: I think you are the only member on this site that has even mentioned a Stevens 200 let alone trying to turn one into a PRECISION rifle. All I can say is good luck. PS: not to be a dick-but that scope leaves alot to be desired. A scope that is unable to hold a zero is enough to cause your problems.
 
#14
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a factory barrel on the gun? Shouldn't be a problem but maybe, just maybe you got a bad barrel... But I would try borrowing a scope somehow and change that out first. With the aluminum bedding block on the Choate you shouldn't have to worry bedding it yet. If you change the scope and it is still shooting "off", go to Northlander on savageshooters.com and get a factory barrel from him to shoot; all else fails that may be your problem.

</div></div>

Yes it is a factory barrel. I might try to borrow a scope from someone at church.
 
#15
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you live, perhaps you are close enough to another member to get hands and eyes on help?

Alternately there must be a competent gunsmith within driving distance who could go over the rifle and find its problems? </div></div>

Im going to take it somewhere today.
 
#16
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

something you may want to do to make sure the scope isn't causing issues is to get it boresighted (take out the bolt, look through the bore as it sits on bags or other stable rest platform without touching the rifle and align the bore on your target, then see where the scope's crosshairs are, again without touching the rifle, and adjust as necessary to make the two even).

then fire 5 shots or so, and then go through the motions of boresighting again. don't worry about where the rounds are hitting. your objective here is to determine if recoil is causing the erectors to move, effectively killing the boresighted zero you just got.

if the crosshairs are even a little off from where they were before you fired the shots, the scope needs replacing.

mueller makes decent scopes for rimfire rifles.

key word being "rimfire".
wink.gif


Good luck, and keep us posted.
 
#19
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"There can't be <span style="font-weight: bold">THAT</span> much more wrong with it"

Uh, yes there can. PS: I think you are the only member on this site that has even mentioned a Stevens 200 let alone trying to turn one into a PRECISION rifle. All I can say is good luck. PS: not to be a dick-but that scope leaves alot to be desired. A scope that is unable to hold a zero is enough to cause your problems. </div></div>

Arclight, is there anything design-wise that would prevent a Stevens from becoming a precision rifle? With a truing job, add a reputable barrel, a good stock (AI or McRee), and everything else that people typically add to Remingtons to turn them into "Precision" rifles, what would stop a Stevens dead in its tracks from becoming a good, accurate rifle that, god forbid, can compete with a Remington build?

Not arguing, as there have been many "discussions" on this very thing I know, but just trying to understand the prejudice against Stevens/Savages when there are posts here showing they are just as capable as Remingtons and some even better when comparing out of the box performance out to same distances. Is it just because they are cheaper, metallurgy not as good, or something else? Same thing applies many times to Tikkas, Mausers, or generally anything not Remington or Remington clones. I wonder if Savage's status would change if someone started making Savage clone...

Since there are many Savage builds on the hide, and that Stevens are the same action as Savages just without the relief cut for Accutrigger, I would venture to say that Cpt. obvious is not the only member who has mentioned a Savage/Stevens, or succeeded in turning one into a precision rifle...

Sorry for jacking post, back to normal programming.
laugh.gif
Have not heard that many bad things about the Bushnell.
 
#20
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Considerable recoil difference between your .308
and your .17hmr.
I cannot drive my 300rum near as well
as I can a .17.
Are u comfortable with the recoil?
U might also get a more experienced shooter
to observe your fundamentals, and or shoot your rifle.
This is not an attempted slight on your abilities,
just pointing out a possibility.
 
#21
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Have the stock bedded - or buy high quality stock that can be professionally bedded.
Get rid of shitty optics.
Check your crown on muzzle
Make sure you are torqued down in all aspects of the rifle, bases, rings, action bolts and so on


Or fork over some money and let a reputable gunsmith give it a once over!
For being Capt. Obvious I think your are missing a lot of the obvious solutions to your problems with this rifle.
 
#22
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Also are you shooting this rifle from a set of bags, bi-pod, prone, a table. Any of these things will make a difference. If you live anywhere near Ohio I'll take a look at it and try another scope on it for you. Also that 3200 Tactical is a very good scope and many a hide members love them.

PS My stevens does just fine for now. I'll start showing you groups when I get my new barrel
wink.gif


Good Luck today,
Merritt
 
#23
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Had a Stevens 200 .308 it shot like crap right out of the box. Had a Gunsmith bed it, shot 1" groups at 100 yards. Replaced the barrel with a 10FP barrel, and bedded a Bell and Carlson stock. 1/4" groups at a 100 yards. After that sold it own five Remingtons now.
Have it bedded, upgrade optics to at least a new Redfield 4-12x40. Mueller's are nice on small calibers, wouldn't dream of one on a .308. Good luck, they will shoot good but it takes a lot of work and hair pulling.
 
#24
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lt. Arclight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
"There can't be <span style="font-weight: bold">THAT</span> much more wrong with it"

Uh, yes there can. PS: I think you are the only member on this site that has even mentioned a Stevens 200 let alone trying to turn one into a PRECISION rifle. All I can say is good luck. PS: not to be a dick-but that scope leaves alot to be desired. A scope that is unable to hold a zero is enough to cause your problems. </div></div>

Arclight, is there anything design-wise that would prevent a Stevens from becoming a precision rifle? With a truing job, add a reputable barrel, a good stock (AI or McRee), and everything else that people typically add to Remingtons to turn them into "Precision" rifles, what would stop a Stevens dead in its tracks from becoming a good, accurate rifle that, god forbid, can compete with a Remington build?

Not arguing, as there have been many "discussions" on this very thing I know, but just trying to understand the prejudice against Stevens/Savages when there are posts here showing they are just as capable as Remingtons and some even better when comparing out of the box performance out to same distances. Is it just because they are cheaper, metallurgy not as good, or something else? Same thing applies many times to Tikkas, Mausers, or generally anything not Remington or Remington clones. I wonder if Savage's status would change if someone started making Savage clone...

Since there are many Savage builds on the hide, and that Stevens are the same action as Savages just without the relief cut for Accutrigger, I would venture to say that Cpt. obvious is not the only member who has mentioned a Savage/Stevens, or succeeded in turning one into a precision rifle...

Sorry for jacking post, back to normal programming.
laugh.gif
Have not heard that many bad things about the Bushnell. </div></div>


I'll stick by my statement. Search this site,maybe there is a reason TO USE THEM. Do all you want,accuracy comes from a trued action, a properly chambered quality barrel(yes factory barrels can be good)quality scope mounting and a QUALITY scope. $149 scope? What do you think about its ability to hold a zero?And last but most important-the nut behind the trigger has to be TIGHT. Hating Savages,Rugers,Stevens? Nope- I just don't use them.
 
#26
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

looks like your mueller has a paralax adjustment. do you know to use it? not trying to insult but if the paralax is not set right could he be all over and the crosshairs be on point? maybe i dont know what i'm saying but i believe this is right. cpt. obvious. put you crosshairs on target a move your eye back and forth slightly if the crosshairs come off the target adjust the paralax (the front bell) until it doesnt move off target. this is just how it was explained to me. open for criticism.
 
#28
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dantrom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">looks like your mueller has a paralax adjustment. do you know to use it? not trying to insult but if the paralax is not set right could he be all over and the crosshairs be on point? </div></div>

Wow. I dont think I have every put any importance on the parallax setting.


Most of this time I have been shooting 100 yards with what may have been a 250 yd parallax setting.


Would that make the difference between 3" groups and 1" groups?
 
#29
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Did you ever shoot it "stock" in the factory configuration? How did it shoot then?

If it did, what did you change immediately before accuracy went away?

My best guess is that something is wrong with the crown or the scope - but it could be a number of things.
 
#31
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

I know you (the op) don't want to hear this, but by going the cheapest possible route you have gained the least possible result. If you were to add up all you have thrown at this admittedly poor performer you could have purchased something much better that was ready to shoot. There are proven rifles in the "for sale" section of this board you would be much more satisfied with, again for probably similar outlay.

In the front of every Brownells catalog there is a quote by John Ruskin:
"It's unwise to pay too much...but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money...that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

You (OP) said you "had too much money in it to sell" and "have swapped out everything but the scope and barrel". Send it to a 'smith and chalk it up to experience. Not rying to bash/break balls or be negative, just a reality check. AG
 
#32
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Something has got to be wrong with your crown. I have had in expensive rifles shoot 1/2 inch groups all day. Its made by savage and they make mighty fine rifles. You dont have to go buy a thousand $ scope to get it to shoot good. Seriously I would take it to a gun smith and have him take a look try another scope if you can and then start reloading. Dont let these guys tell you that you have to have a expensive set up to shoot well. Yes it can help in some cases but really you should not have a problem shooting inch groups with that rifle.
 
#34
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

You may want to try a simple test for your scope. Sandbag the rifle and dryfire it while aiming at a target. My club has targets which have a round bull but are also blocked out in inches, this is what you need.

Hold your crosshairs at the intersection of one of these blocks and squeeze the trigger. If the crosshairs jump off your aiming point, are they always going to the same place and returning to your aiming point? If not, you probably have a problem with it.

I had a 700 in .223 that would shoot just about anything to around 1/2". I was getting ready to shoot a highpower match and had made up some reloads that had showed good promise when testing. The rifle suddenly started shooting 1 1/2" groups at 100. I did the dryfire test and saw a problem with the crosshairs as I've indicated.

To double check myself, which you can also do, I put the scope on one of my most accurate .22s. Same crappy results, so I sent it back for repair. You can put the APV on your .17 and see if it shoots the same size groups. If not, obviously you have a problem with your scope.

I have owned a Mueller before on a .22. It was their 8.5 x 25 mil-dot. Although it held zero, I don't think it would pass the box test, but to be fair I never performed it completely. APVs usually find homes on 10/22s not centerfires. Something to consider.
 
#35
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: asbestosglove</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You (OP) said you "had too much money in it to sell" and "have swapped out everything but the scope and barrel". Send it to a 'smith and chalk it up to experience. Not rying to bash/break balls or be negative, just a reality check. AG </div></div>

Let me assure you I am nested in reality.


Before I bought this rifle I made several thread asking what budget rifle to get that would shoot around an inch. I dont think anyone disagreed with the stevens 200.


I was told that if I put a new stock on the stevens 200 it would shoot sub moa.
 
#36
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

I may have missed some one else posting this idea- but just in case. When you put the barreled action in the new stock, its good to just tighten the action screws enough to lightly hold the action in place. You can put the rifle butt down on the ground and give it a light bounce/bump to set the action so the recoil lug is set into the stock. Then tighten the forward action screw tight. The rear action screw only needs to be tightned snug enough so it won't back out and the rear part of the action is snug in the stock. One more little thing that could help? 3-8 inch groups is pretty bad for this little tip (or skim bedding for that matter) to help much but along with all the other checks you might do- it could help. Good luck

ps what is the twist rate of the barrel?
 
#38
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Obvious - I just shot 3/4MOA yesterday with ease. PM me with some info on what the smith found the other day. Also if you live anywhere near Ohio let me know and I'll check everything and put another scope on it for you and functionally test it. I just ordered a SS 16x42 and some TPS rings for myself. They were on the SWFA demo site for 249.00 and rings for 59.00 Which is $50 of both. How did the floating of the tang and barrel go? Can I get a pick of what you're using for a rest? Have you tried 168gr yet?
 
#44
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

Dont expect sub moa groups out of a hunting rifle with factory ammo. Take yourself out of the equation and see if anything changes.

That said, a Stevens 200 will shoot sub moa if you ditch everything but the action.
 
#45
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SoCalPete</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is that a factory barrel on the gun? Shouldn't be a problem but maybe, just maybe you got a bad barrel... But I would try borrowing a scope somehow and change that out first. With the aluminum bedding block on the Choate you shouldn't have to worry bedding it yet. If you change the scope and it is still shooting "off", go to Northlander on savageshooters.com and get a factory barrel from him to shoot; all else fails that may be your problem.

</div></div>

Yes it is a factory barrel. I might try to borrow a scope from someone at church. </div></div>

Hi Guys - I'm new to this board but I can't see any reason why this problem can't be sorted with a little trial and error and the Stevens be made to shoot passably well. All the obvious areas have been covered but as its a Savage/Stevens I would simply swap the barrel. Find someone local who has a spare barrel (and headspace gauges) and change them over and give it another try. Its easy to do and it may transform the rifle.
Once you have changed one barrel it becomes addictive so be careful. (I love my Savages)
 
#46
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1066</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hi Guys - I'm new to this board but I can't see any reason why this problem can't be sorted with a little trial and error and the Stevens be made to shoot passably well. All the obvious areas have been covered but as its a Savage/Stevens I would simply swap the barrel. Find someone local who has a spare barrel (and headspace gauges) and change them over and give it another try. Its easy to do and it may transform the rifle.
Once you have changed one barrel it becomes addictive so be careful. (I love my Savages) </div></div>


The stevens 200 has the same barrel as the 10 fp.
 
#47
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1066</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hi Guys - I'm new to this board but I can't see any reason why this problem can't be sorted with a little trial and error and the Stevens be made to shoot passably well. All the obvious areas have been covered but as its a Savage/Stevens I would simply swap the barrel. Find someone local who has a spare barrel (and headspace gauges) and change them over and give it another try. Its easy to do and it may transform the rifle.
Once you have changed one barrel it becomes addictive so be careful. (I love my Savages) </div></div>


The stevens 200 has the same barrel as the 10 fp. </div></div>

You are right - there's a whole wad of Savage/Stevens barrels that will just screw right on (and a whole lot of different calibres that will fit your bolt head) what I'm saying is just borrow/buy another barrel to try onto your action and shoot a few groups then change them over again, its a real easy job once you have done it. If the second barrel shoots ok'ish then that shows the scope, mounts, bedding etc. is not causing the main problem. (Have you checked the barrel locknut is tight?) if the second barrel is no better than the first then you are back to scope, bedding, operator etc.
 
#48
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

OMG, IT'S THE FREAKIN SCOPE!

i've never heard of a savage - any savage - shooting that badly.

that is what the stevens 200 is - a 10 action, with a savage barrel, it just doesn't have and accutrigger. that is the only difference.

it's the scope

it's the scope

it's the scope

first day out of the box, no adjustments to trigger or anything other than my scope:
308_TARGET.jpg


600 rounds later, and still witha cheap assed barska swat on it:
ENDRESULTS001.jpg


it's the scope

it's the scope

it's the scope

even buy a 69.00 centerpoint at walmart to confirm it if you don't have the funds, then put the 69.00 one on a .22 that you have when you replace the crapped out scope that's on the rifle now.

it's the scope

it's the scope

it's the scope

did i happen to mention....it's the scope.
 
#49
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1066</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Hi Guys - I'm new to this board but I can't see any reason why this problem can't be sorted with a little trial and error and the Stevens be made to shoot passably well. All the obvious areas have been covered but as its a Savage/Stevens I would simply swap the barrel. Find someone local who has a spare barrel (and headspace gauges) and change them over and give it another try. Its easy to do and it may transform the rifle.
Once you have changed one barrel it becomes addictive so be careful. (I love my Savages) </div></div>


The stevens 200 has the same barrel as the 10 fp. </div></div>

No, the 10FP is a bull barrel. I am not aware of the Stevens 200 being factory available with a bbl.
 
#50
Re: Still having problems with stevens 200

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parkincense</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont expect sub moa groups out of a hunting rifle with factory ammo. Take yourself out of the equation and see if anything changes.

That said, a Stevens 200 will shoot sub moa if you ditch everything but the action. </div></div>

+1 to that.....My Stevens 200 Whisper build is exactly that. Blowing up water filled soda cans at 300 is easy with mine.

I have the same stock (choate tactical) that the OP upgraded to. I decreased the trigger pull and put in some set screws for creep and overtravel adjustments for the trigger (the stock trigger had the threaded holes filed with a plastic ball bearing so there is no adjustment for creep or overtravel in its stock form). Also put a Pacnor Super Match barrel in 300whisper. Headspaced it myself with a PTG go gauge and used a cellophane tape to the base of the gauge to make a no gauge. EGW pic rail and Leupold QRW rings. And I used a Elite 4200 6-24x50 tactical turrets. Guns shoots about 1/2" groups at 100m and I have not even done any testing for seating depths (I know my bullets are jumping a little).

Here are two pictures of my build :

jaw1th.jpg


ifajo6.jpg


So do disagree with the person saying that using a Savage/Stevens 200 was a waste of time. A Savage/Stevens 200 and Savage Tactical rifle actions are the same action. The differences are in the bolt coatings, the trigger and the barrels and stock on the factory guns.


Gene
 
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