Subsonic hunting rifle?

[BenY 2013]

Wanting to build a new bolt action for hunting deer and hogs around 100yds mostly. I'm wanting the caliber support subsonic loads mostly so I can hunt with it suppressed. Would also like to have the rifle SBR to keep the OAL of the gun short as it will be suppressed when in use.

So what calibers actually have good terminal ballistics in subsonic rounds?

I've been looking at:
.458 Socom
8.6 Creedmore (soon to be released)
.338 Fed

Would prefer to have a .30 caliber round but I don't know of any calibers besides .300 BO and am not aware of any ammo that has great terminal ballistics from it. (If I am wrong please enlighten me.)

So would like to hear opinions on what I should consider and what I should stay away from.

 

[hlee]

Pistol weight/caliber bullets fired at pistol velocities can be expected to have pistol terminal ballistics. Subsonic hunting takes the requirements for shot placement to “11” because you are really dealing with pistol performance. Energy scales linearly with mass and as the square of velocity. Imposing a max speed means you really only have mass to play with to increase terminal effect. Pick the caliber that can lob the heaviest bullet, given the subsonic restriction, and you have your winner. I’d probably pick the socom from your list, but already built a 300 bo.

 

[BigTex]

I'd want the largest cross section and highest sectional density I could get. The fatter and heavier, the better since velocity is the limiting factor.

There is no replacement for displacement, especially at subsonic velocities.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Dont forget 450 Bushmaster. Ruger chambers the American in it for under 500 (its $400 ar sportsman guide right now). It uses .451 bullets so you can't go super heavy but the plus side is that all are meant to expand at subsonic velocities.

 

[biffj]

You forgot the 338BR. Its based on the 1.5" long 6.5 BR case or any of the other BR cases....7mm, 30 etc. With the 300gr Sierra Matchking its about the same overall length as the 308. The 300gr slug is a lot bigger than the sissy blackout and quite accurate. I normally load for a 17" barrel but it is possible to load for shorter barrels too.

Other than that one the bigger SOCOM, Beowulf or Bushmaster are all good choices. Bigger bullets make bigger holes and if you're shooting subs you need all the help you can get.

Frank

 

[Ledzep]

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-blackout-190-gr-sub-x-subsonic#!/#specs

With any subsonic you're looking at handgun level performance at best. I mean 9mm-.45acp, not magnum. So with that in mind it would make sense to use a caliber with bullets specifically designed to expand at low velocity because you're capped at 1050-1100fps. Shooting bullets designed for match shoting or for expanding at 1800-3200fps is going to give less than impressive results.

.300 Blackout with the 190 subx
.45 acp/450 bushmaster
.50 ae downloaded

Those calibers have a plethora of cheap(er) cup/core expanding bullets available from Hornady, Sierra, etc... as opposed to buying Lehigh or cutting edge solids for $1-2 ea. The bigger you go (over .45 cal) you might have issues finding appropriately sized cans. So long as you keep them subsonic low pressure you should be able to use pistol cans for this project.

For deer I would use a regular high-power supersonic round and you can still keep it suppressed if you want. You're only ever shooting 1 at a time in my experience and you're just as liable to have them spook (or not) sub/supersonic. YMMV.

For hogs or coyotes with lots of them in the surrounding area and no bag limit I can maybe see a purpose but there is certainly going to be a performance difference from even the best subsonic bullet to a supersonic bullet (6.5 grendel, 6.5 cm, .308, etc..)... Again, YMMV.

 

[cav has been]

Upholding my tradition of being non-traditional, I just had an 18" barrel spun up by McGowan. 14 twist, in 358win. Waiting on a mould from Arsenal to cast 245-250 gr. boolits. In my plan most from this will be ran sub sonic. Even with relatively soft lead and a wide flat nose,I have no concerns with penetration. I believe they would run lengthwise a fair distance in our long toed bears.

 

[BenY 2013]

https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/rifle/300-blackout-190-gr-sub-x-subsonic#!/#specs

With any subsonic you're looking at handgun level performance at best. I mean 9mm-.45acp, not magnum. So with that in mind it would make sense to use a caliber with bullets specifically designed to expand at low velocity because you're capped at 1050-1100fps. Shooting bullets designed for match shoting or for expanding at 1800-3200fps is going to give less than impressive results.

.300 Blackout with the 190 subx
.45 acp/450 bushmaster
.50 ae downloaded

Those calibers have a plethora of cheap(er) cup/core expanding bullets available from Hornady, Sierra, etc... as opposed to buying Lehigh or cutting edge solids for $1-2 ea. The bigger you go (over .45 cal) you might have issues finding appropriately sized cans. So long as you keep them subsonic low pressure you should be able to use pistol cans for this project.

For deer I would use a regular high-power supersonic round and you can still keep it suppressed if you want. You're only ever shooting 1 at a time in my experience and you're just as liable to have them spook (or not) sub/supersonic. YMMV.

For hogs or coyotes with lots of them in the surrounding area and no bag limit I can maybe see a purpose but there is certainly going to be a performance difference from even the best subsonic bullet to a supersonic bullet (6.5 grendel, 6.5 cm, .308, etc..)... Again, YMMV.

Has anyone used the .300 BO with 190 gr subx on game yet? Seems like it would expand better than any of the previous .300 BO projectiles. I also like that it is .30 cal and ammo is very readily available for it. Sub and supersonic. (Don't have a reloading setup yet.)

.458 Socom has really grabbed my attention as well. There are quite a few options even in this niche of a request.

Ben

 

[cav has been]

What powder? Will you be buffering?[/QUOTE
Nope. Don't need no steenking buffer. Likely Red dot and/or 700X

 

[10ring1]

If you are determined to be subsonic, as previously stated , velocity is the limiting factor. Subsonic is subsonic, whether from a 300blk or .308 or ...

 

[SmileMaker]

https://www.airgundepot.com/airforce-texan-ss-hawke-scope-combo.html

Take a look at the 45cal Airforce Texan SS airgun.

 

[tsu45]

You’re not aware of any that have great terminal ballistics because there aren’t any.

If you want to stay cost effective, go with a clambering utilizing pistol projectiles. Actually, just go pistol projectiles no matter what.

 

[SPAK]

I’ve harvested 5 deer with Lehigh defense 194gr ME Bullets loaded out of a 300bo. Furthest shot 100 yards, which is my personal limit. They are accurate out to 200 yards but I won’t push them that far.

Never had one run more than 30 yards and drop. All shot through the lungs.

 

[SPAK]

I’ve harvested 5 deer with Lehigh defense 194gr ME Bullets loaded out of a 300bo. Furthest shot 100 yards, which is my personal limit. They are accurate out to 200 yards but I won’t push them that far.

Never had one run more than 30 yards and drop. All shot through the lungs.

 

[jda2631]

First are you dependent on your current can for caliber, do you only have a 30 cal can? Are you up for buying a 45 cal can? Do you want factory ammo?

If you only have a 30 cal can, or really want to stick with 30 cal. No reason to get anything other than 300 blk if you are wanting subsonic. Anything else is just a waste IMO. Good bit of factory ammo available too, if that is a concern.

If you want to go bigger and have the can or will be buying a new can i'd go for 458 socom. Get the biggest bullets possible since speed is no issue, it uses .458 rifle bullets instead of the pistol .452 bullets that the 450 bushmaster uses. Biggest .452 bullets are about 360gr hard cast lead bullets. For 458 you can get up to 500+ gr. And Lehigh Defense makes a 570 gr .458 controlled fracturing bullet that is made for subsonic use and will probably offer you the "best" terminal performance (energy and expansion) from a subsonic round. Would just need to pick the correct bullet for the 458 socom since most 458 bullets are made for rifles and supersonic speeds.

TLDR:
30 cal - 300 blk all the way.
Big bore - 458 Socom for the ultra heavies.

 

[BenY 2013]

First are you dependent on your current can for caliber, do you only have a 30 cal can? Are you up for buying a 45 cal can? Do you want factory ammo?

If you only have a 30 cal can, or really want to stick with 30 cal. No reason to get anything other than 300 blk if you are wanting subsonic. Anything else is just a waste IMO. Good bit of factory ammo available too, if that is a concern.

If you want to go bigger and have the can or will be buying a new can i'd go for 458 socom. Get the biggest bullets possible since speed is no issue, it uses .458 rifle bullets instead of the pistol .452 bullets that the 450 bushmaster uses. Biggest .452 bullets are about 360gr hard cast lead bullets. For 458 you can get up to 500+ gr. And Lehigh Defense makes a 570 gr .458 controlled fracturing bullet that is made for subsonic use and will probably offer you the "best" terminal performance (energy and expansion) from a subsonic round. Would just need to pick the correct bullet for the 458 socom since most 458 bullets are made for rifles and supersonic speeds.

TLDR:
30 cal - 300 blk all the way.
Big bore - 458 Socom for the ultra heavies.

No I am not making this decision based off of a rifle can. And yes I am hoping to be able to find factory ammo for it at least for a few years until I can get a reloading setup.

Those 2 calibers are the 2 I am considering the most at the moment. I love the .300 BO for factory ammo that is very reasonable and great suppression. New ammo is being offered that is having "better" terminal ballistics. The .458 us going to be more expensive but as you mentioned in the area of terminal ballistics it will obviously trump the .300 BO.

Decision decisions..

Ben

 

[jda2631]

Between those 2, it comes down to do you want max performance or max "ease" because 300blk is everywhere, you can pick up 200gr subsonics at walmart.

 

[Crews]

I used to shoot gas checked lead cast bullets out of my .45-70, they were a real hammer on animals. Instead of trying to make a slow moving bullet expand, has anyone considered just using a coated lead cast bullet instead?

I'm not advocating 300blk, but as an example: 220 coated lead cast ammo

 

[mcfred]

You mean like this? 700gr Cast .510 WSM wildcat:

1800ft/lbs muzzle energy subsonic load. I have another mould that's 660gr but can swap pins for a hollow point down to about 550gr.

6 on top starting with a cold clean bore, and 5 more on the bottom.

I think ±1.1MOA at 120 yards is just fine and a half inch hole lets the blood out just fine.

 

[SPAK]

Now that is just bad ass......

You mean like this? 700gr Cast .510 WSM wildcat:

1800ft/lbs muzzle energy subsonic load. I have another mould that's 660gr but can swap pins for a hollow point down to about 550gr.

6 on top starting with a cold clean bore, and 5 more on the bottom.

I think ±1.1MOA at 120 yards is just fine and a half inch hole lets the blood out just fine.

 

[DangerRanger]

Lehigh says you need a 2.8” Mag for a 458 socom with the 570 grain bullet because of the 0.955 ogive.

Any ideas if that would fit in a 2.96” wsm accurate mag in a 450 marlin?

Really interested in this combo as a second barrel for my action but I have a magnum bolt so 450 marlin would likely be the easiest chambering for it. That 570 is either 1.8 or 1.95” long depending on which model you pick.

 

[deersniper]

100 yards? 44mag. 300 bo if you don't like the 4 4

 

[jbuck88]

I went through the same thing and I ended up with a srt 77/44.

I figured that pistol calibers are meant to expand at pistol velocities and ballistics all are the equivalent to a rock.

 

[bohem]

Wanting to build a new bolt action for hunting deer and hogs around 100yds mostly. I'm wanting the caliber support subsonic loads mostly so I can hunt with it suppressed. Would also like to have the rifle SBR to keep the OAL of the gun short as it will be suppressed when in use.

So what calibers actually have good terminal ballistics in subsonic rounds?

I've been looking at:
.458 Socom
8.6 Creedmore (soon to be released)
.338 Fed

Would prefer to have a .30 caliber round but I don't know of any calibers besides .300 BO and am not aware of any ammo that has great terminal ballistics from it. (If I am wrong please enlighten me.)

So would like to hear opinions on what I should consider and what I should stay away from.

In a bolt action I see very little purpose to a 300BLK. The BLK is a novelty that serves a purpose in an AR platform IMO.

An 8tw 308 bolt gun will give you the option to shoot heavy, slow bullets just like a 300BLK though you need to load your own.
225 Hornady at 1000fps still hits animals hard.

Then you decide that you need to shoot something 500yd away it's only a mag change away from being able to drop a 185 Juggernaut in the vitals.

The best terminal ballistics in subsonic calibers come from large bore loaded with heavy pistol bullets. Rifle bullets just aren't designed to work at 850-1000fps impact speeds. Hunting with a suppressed, subsonic rifle round means you should be aiming for tight CNS impacts. There are some exceptions to this statement as I'm sure someone on the internet will take the time to argue, but I've taken a lot of animals the way you're talking about, shoot CNS.

458 SOCOM
450 Bushmaster (I just got one of these actually)
500 SW

All will setup to shoot subsonic and hit hard.

 

[bohem]

You mean like this? 700gr Cast .510 WSM wildcat:

1800ft/lbs muzzle energy subsonic load. I have another mould that's 660gr but can swap pins for a hollow point down to about 550gr.

6 on top starting with a cold clean bore, and 5 more on the bottom.

I think ±1.1MOA at 120 yards is just fine and a half inch hole lets the blood out just fine.

Bad
Ass
Game over.

A lot like what my dad's suppressed 500 SW looks like. What mould is that? We go through the arduous process of casting 510s and then putting them in the lathe and cutting them down to pistol bore size.

 

[mcfred]

Accuratemolds.com custom cast bullet moulds. Tom will cut/recut/modify anything you want in a variety of materials with only a couple restrictions (e.g. he won't do any hollow point designs; Bullet length won't be longer than 1.375" ect.). Fast turn-around, and reasonable expense given that any 50 cal projectile starts at ~50¢ each and goes up from there.

50-cal starts about half way down:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=19

This is the particular mould I got:
www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-700C-D.png

 

[DangerRanger]

Leaning heavily toward 458 socom at this point. Wonder how it would feed out of a wsm mag might order some snap caps to test it. At the worst could run it as a single burn repeater would be ideal.

 

[MK20]

If you don’t ABSOLUTELY have to have a bolt gun, I have an old Rossi m92 in 357 that I have reduced loads for. It shoots quieter WITHOUT a suppressor than my 22 rifle.
That’s with a 158 grain hard cast lead bullet. You are actually using barrel length to “suppress” your rounds.

 

[Kadams1563]

The problem is why are you wanting subsonic? It’s not like your going to be able to set there and shoot hog after hog. The sound of the bullet impacting skin will be so loud they will all run off.

Just run supersonic and get the kill.

Even shooting my 9mm scorpion suppressed into the bank with 147 subsonics is loud at over 100 yards.

 

[BenY 2013]

The more research I've done, I won't be hunting with suppressed rounds most likely hunt with supers and play with subs.

Ben