Subsonics - All Calibers

[jday]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

How'd that work through the can or did you try it yet? I'll get over to help ya try it as soon as I heal up!

 

[Asm1]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bronco</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't see many loads for .223 so I worked one up today. Settled on:
5.3 gr. Trailboss
75gr. Honady BTHP
Rem. case
Win. primer
Avg. over 5 shots was 1042, shot 1.5 in group @ 100, but it was windy and most of the spread was lateral.
Shot in AR-15 with 20" 1 in 7 twist barrel. AAC 762-SD can. </div></div>

I have a 18" WOA 1-7 Twist and used your load and its crazy sccurate,1/2" at 100 yards and 50 yards is takin candy from a babby,Threw my 7.62SD is hollywood quiet !



thanks<<<

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Savage 10fp .308 1-10 twist factory 24" barrel
170 grain harnady fp
Federal brass full lenth sized
Winchester lr mag primers
9.5 grains of red dot

It's done a half inch so far at 100.

 

[Bronco]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

ASM1

Glad to hear (or not hear in this case) you had good results. After shooting a 100 or so of these I had 2 of them go super - sonic on me. Was pretty cold (dense air) when I worked these up so figured I'd be ok. Might have had a couple of "heavy" charges, they are on the edge for sub loads so for those closer to sea level might want to go down 1 or 2 tenths of a grain.

 

[Asm1]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I do have to weight each one if i just throw them i will get one or two to crack when its real cold out.I am at 650ft alltitude.

My 18" barrel may be helping me out?
agreed its on the edge,but thats how i roll..

 

[pickpick]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I ran the trailboss again, without spilling them this time. Shot with same rifle as above with the cyclone on this time.

temp. 36f, baro. 30.62, humid. 78%, elev. 239ft

trailboss powder, wlr primers, hornady match brass,168smk

4rnds each.
10.5grs--avg.1062fps
10.2grs--avg1008fps
10.0grs--avg997fps
9.9grs--avg985fps

My first round of the day was 1114fps, it cracked the barrier. The jbm ballistic calc. shows speed of sound to be 1091fps today.
Here's my 100yrd group with the 10.0gr load.

.

.

 

[fusiachi]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I have settled on 10.7gr Trailboss, 175gr SMK, Winchester brass, Federal 210M primer. Average velocities are roughly between 1000fps and 1030fps. I haven't shot enough through the chrono to determine the true average deviation, extreme spread, etc.

</div></div>

I'll apologize in advance in case I missed this info. earlier in the thread, but are you lubing, and are your cold bore velocities in the ballpark with the rest of the shots in a string?

 

[lanenebraska]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Hi everyone! New here, but not a newbie to Trail Boss and reloading.
I'd like to say that you guys are light years ahead of most folks with your research with TB!

I will begin some testing with Moly bullets in 204, and 17 cal Rem. I have 25, and 30g bullets for 17 cal, and 32 and 35g bullets for the 204.

Have a CZ 527 Varmint in 17 rem, amd R-15 204cal

In His service
Lane

 

[civilian75]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Hi everyone! I am mew here, too. This thread on subsonic loads made it imperative I join this forum. What an awsome job you guys have done! I echo Lane's words. I had just started pondering all the questions you guys have been answering here.

Although I own several Russian based firearms (Mossin/Nagant platforms, SKS, AK47/74) it is my Tikka t3 .308 varmint (1:11 twist rate, 24" barrel) I consider my crown jewel.

I have a YHM Phantom 308 (the non-QD type) waiting for all the holy paper to clear. I have several months to develop my load at a leisurely speed now thanks to you guys.

I would like to see:
1. anyone posting data on 308 moly bullets.
2. anyone daring to try reversed bullets. Not only should they be more aerodynamic but very intrinsically stable, regardless of twist rate.

I have a question about cutting the barrel and permanently attach the can but since it is off topic, I will probably start a new thead.

 

[jefds12345]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Can you please add lengths into your data for others

 

[lanenebraska]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lanenebraska</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi everyone! New here, but not a newbie to Trail Boss and reloading.
I'd like to say that you guys are light years ahead of most folks with your research with TB!

I will begin some testing with Moly bullets in 204, and 17 cal Rem. I have 25, and 30g bullets for 17 cal, and 32 and 35g bullets for the 204.

Have a CZ 527 Varmint in 17 rem, amd R-15 204cal

In His service
Lane </div></div>


<span style="font-size: 14pt">Here's an update for my 17 Rem, CZ-527 with TrailBoss (TB), @100yards:

8.1 grains TB and a 25g Moly Berger HP = 2211-fps / .291 three shot group.

7.5 grains TB and 30g Moly Berger HP = 2076-fps / .986 five shot group

Wind=Gusting-5-8mph

Shooting from folding tables and sand bags ;-)


In His service
Lane</span>

 

[crumpmd]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Lane
This section is about loading subsonic. That is slower than than the speed of sound. The Trailboss fills a lot of space in 308 cases and provides good ignition and low variability. We are shooting at less than 1050 fps. Slow those 17 down a bit and they will be Subsonic too. Your load data would need to start anew section for 17 cal.

Crump

 

[civilian75]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I've been very, very low on everything, I did not load much SS rounds. I did a handful of 180gr Nosler BTips and 168 SMKs with Trail Boss(TB). Started at 13gr and went as low as 9.9gr. Neither went fully subsonic on my Tikka t3 .308 varmin (1:11 twist, ~24" bbl). All Noslers keyholed so I'll drop them. I am sure you would like to see chrony data but I only fired one rd of each load so they are not very representative. I will post data when it is more substantial.

FedEx delivered more SMKs today so I will load a bunch more tonigh for my next trip to the range. I have a feeling, though, accuracy will suck.

I've got to gring myself to buy some 180gr RN but I suspect that they won't work either. Should I go lighter? How much lighter?

 

[civilian75]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I checked the targets last night and noticed one of the 168 SMKs also keyholed at 50yds. What the heck! Was it too much lube on bbl and bullets?

Slowest round was a 1086 fps.

I can't believe I got so sucky results compared to you guys!!!

 

[rem700man]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Regarding .223 SS loads, do you think I would run a greater risk if I were to use .223AI brass. Reason is I have a .223AI that I would like to try. I could always just use regular .223 brass and move on. I was just wondering if anything pops out to you guys as a big no no.

I know .223AI's are built for speed but sometimes its nice to be quiet.

 

[Aussie26]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

338 Federal

Would love to load some subsonic loads for my 338 federal. Has anyone out there got any info? I'm thinking some of these 308 loads are going to get me in the right neck of the woods.
I'd like to use atleast a 250gn RN. along with trailboss powder starting with about 12gr.

What are your thoughts on this?

Any help much apreciated

 

[flagg888]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Question for you guys who've been working with the SS stuff.
I only saw one reference to Unique, and I believe some time ago in the regular section of the reloading forum someone said that Unique and Trailboss can be pretty much substituted for one another.
I don't have any Trailboss, but I did have some Unique, so I loaded up a few rounds with 12 grains of unique in Win brass with CCI BR2 primers topped with some 175 SMK's.
I haven't fired them yet, but I am going to the range this week and was thinking about giving them a try.
The rifle has a 10 twist and a 24" barrel.
Do you guys think this would work?
I really don't want to get a stuck round and I'm on the fence about even trying them.

 

[ohiogunnut]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

After four trips to the range, finally found a good subsonic load: 150gr Hornady RN bullets over 10gr of Trailboss giving 1030fps and stable (Lapua brass and CCI BR2's). My 24" AR10 1:11.25 barrel wouldn't work with 220RN's, 180's, or 168's and Trailboss... At 50 yards where I was working up the load, five rounds were grouping at around 1/2 an inch and were Hollywood quiet. Very fun!

 

[bohem]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tikka Man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi everyone! I am mew here, too. This thread on subsonic loads made it imperative I join this forum. What an awsome job you guys have done! I echo Lane's words. I had just started pondering all the questions you guys have been answering here.

Although I own several Russian based firearms (Mossin/Nagant platforms, SKS, AK47/74) it is my Tikka t3 .308 varmint (1:11 twist rate, 24" barrel) I consider my crown jewel.

I have a YHM Phantom 308 (the non-QD type) waiting for all the holy paper to clear. I have several months to develop my load at a leisurely speed now thanks to you guys.

I would like to see:
1. anyone posting data on 308 moly bullets.
2. anyone daring to try reversed bullets. Not only should they be more aerodynamic but very intrinsically stable, regardless of twist rate.

I have a question about cutting the barrel and permanently attach the can but since it is off topic, I will probably start a new thead.
</div></div>

I have not shot any moly. Can't help there.

I have shot "backwards" bullets from a few of my dad's cans. Neither of us could justify the cost of a factory built can, so we've each just gotten the tax stamp paid and papers to build our own.

The bullets were initially seated backwards in a 7.62x54R Nagant rifle and fired through his 50 caliber can. This worked out REALLY well. The bullets were stable at 1100 fps well past where we could reliably hit with that rifle and load. 250-300y was done and they all hit nose (or rather "tail" on).

If you have a factory can, and a machine shop access, then I'd suggest you pay the 200 bucks and get a stamp to build your own for experimenting with first.

That's what we did, we ran the loads from a 50 cal can first, then dropped it to the 8mm can he also has. Never had a baffle strike yet. **knock on wood**

I just saw your other posts with heavier bullets. How'd the 180 RN's work? I would bet that they were stable and the others weren't at all.

If you want to try shooting a spire pointed bullet, stick that thing in the case backwards. Just use a BTSP so that it's not a sharp edge trucking down the bore.

 

[Twitchy]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Remington 700 PSS cut to 20” (1/12)
SAS Suppressor (.308 SS)

Case: Lapua (virgin brass-no flash hole enlargement)
Primer: CCI BR-2
Powder: RedDot (8.3g)
Bullet: SMK BTHP 175
Loaded to 2.775” OAL

Test conditions:
-86F
-73.3% Humidity
-29.99in/HG

Results: 1026.6 FPS


My buddy putting some rounds out. (I'm filming)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdUlAns6gCM

 

[Twitchy]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals


OK, the subsonic 5.56 was purely and experiment. I don't care to get into the "just buy a .22" shtuff.

Bushmaster Varminter/WOA 1/7 SPR Barrel
SAS Suppressor (5.56 SS)

Case: Once fired LC
Primer: Federal 205
Powder: RedDot (4.6g)
Bullet: SMK BTHP 77g (moly)
Loaded to 2.26" OAL

Test conditions:
-88F
-65.7% Humidity

Results: 944 FPS

I could probably stand to come up to an even 5g for this load without risking going loud.

You can see you need to cycle the action for each shot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLVqG2GCaLw

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

thanks for the info guys, I took to reading this thread a while back and decide to try some for myself. I dont own a suppressor yet, but liked the idea of a cheap quiet gallery load.

26" fact rem 12 twist bbl

Sure enough, 10 gr of TB under a 168 smk
sounded and felt like a .22 and is right around 1000 fps.

168 smk
10gr TB
LCM brass
cci 200
no special brass prep flashhole or oil job treatment.

 

[cinosbus]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I've played a little with 10.5gr TB behind a 175smk in a factory Rem 700-5R Milspec. It works ok and runs around 1050fps - I found it to be position sensative and velocity would vary from the high 900s to close to 1100fps depending on a cold bore or case position prior to loading/firing.

I want to run some 150gr TSXs meant for a .30-30 thru my lubrisizer and try those over about 10gr of TB.

 

[JCH]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

does anyone have a ss load for a 243?

 

[DGT]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Trail Boss is not available where I live but Vihtavuori Tin Star (N32C) could be a good one as well.
Does anyone have a safe load for 308Win. and Lapua 200gr. subsonic?
The burning rate seems slightly slower than N-320.
Can I use a N320 load as a starting load?

 

[dferg77]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Thanks guys for all the great info. I just started playing with 55gr vmax out of 16" woa worked great except for the first round velocity drop. still haven't really figured that out
load was

lc brass
4.4gr trailboss
55gr vmax(had a bunch)
shot # 1- 955.1
2- 1036
3- 1021
4- 1022
5- 1015
6- 1030
7- 991.4
8- 1038
9- 1026
10- 1019

 

[salmonaxe]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

This thread is relevant to my interests. Got a 300 whisper. Need to do more load development.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Hi i have some custom 115gr 224cal round nose soft points made for the Australian SAS and a load of 6.8gr Trails Boss with Rem primers and win cases gave them 1020fps velocity in a 7 twist 26" barrel.

I also have a 7mm Whisper and am playing around with it at the moment using 162gr A MAx projectiles i have tried H4227 trail boss and VV N110 and N310
i think the N110 is giving the best performance with consistant velocity with 3.5gr VV N110 and the 162gr A Max the velocity is 735fps and realy quiet like shooting a 22z without a can on either and the barrel is 17".

 

[ranger1183]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild_Bill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi i have some <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">custom 115gr 224cal round nose soft points made for the Australian SAS</span></span> and a load of 6.8gr Trails Boss with Rem primers and win cases gave them 1020fps velocity in a 7 twist 26" barrel.

I also have a 7mm Whisper and am playing around with it at the moment using 162gr A MAx projectiles i have tried H4227 trail boss and VV N110 and N310
i think the N110 is giving the best performance with consistant velocity with 3.5gr VV N110 and the 162gr A Max the velocity is 735fps and realy quiet like shooting a 22z without a can on either and the barrel is 17".

</div></div>

Wild_Bill,

Can you post some photos of that 115 gr. 224 caliber projectile? Are these commercially available?

 

[Wild_Bill]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

i will take a pic not commercialy available a pro shooter got 12000 of them to use for kulling and i tested some loads for him.
At 1000fps they did not deform at all they just punch through like pencils that is why they were not continued.

 

[Jester308]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Now thats a shame mate, I wouldnt mind having a couple of hundred of those 115's. Ill have to keep an eye out for them.

JJ

 

[crumpmd]

6.5X47 Lapua

Kreiger 22inch barrel 1:8.5 twist
SWR Omega silencer
New Lapua brass
142grSMK
CCI Sm rifle Magnum primer
9.5gr Trailboss
1010fps
Bugholes at 50yrds
.8mil to 75
1.8mil to 100
Have to put in 2mil from my regular load 100 yard zero to get 50 yard zero for the subsonic.

 

[XM110]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

ok guys,
got my first suppressor finally.....a AAC Ranger-2. Wanted to pick ya'alls brains about a subsonic load for a 221 fireball. 55gr and 75gr bullet weights is what I have on hand. Figured the shorter case would be better than the longer 5.56 for subsonic loads. Rifle is a remy 700 light varmint fluted.

XM110

 

[bohem]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

XM110, what's the twist rate on the barrel?

 

[XM110]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

22inch barrel with a 1-14 twist I believe....

 

[bohem]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I am doubtful that a 75gr bullet would stabilize in that twist at full speed, let alone a subsonic.

With that slow of a twist you are probably relegated to a 55gr or even lighter bullet.

I'd suggest load testing without the suppressor on to make sure you aren't keyholing to begin with, this way you can avoid a baffle strike.

If you can't get the spire point bullets to stabilize, try seating them backwards with the base pointed forward, this is the subsonic aerodynamically stable orientation, as opposed to the supersonic stable position with the point forward.

 

[XM110]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

got some 40gr v-max stuff too........??????

 

[bohem]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

That'll probably run OK for you. To put it in relative terms, the twist rate on a 22 rimfire barrel is standard at 1:16t and you're only about 12% faster than that with bullets that are not shaped like rounded cylinders but pointy needles. The long slender bullets take more to stabilize than a cylinder does, so you have to spin them faster.

The 60gr subsonic 22 ammo doesn't stabilize in a standard 1:16tw barrel and the 55 FMJ's are probably longer (in fact, I'm almost certain of it) than the 60gr LRN in a 22 LR.

Try the 55's first, I'm betting they will keyhole, try them backwards, they might still keyhole.

Those 40s should work fine though.

 

[XM110]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

what's ya'alls take on the shorter case of the 221? Would a good starting point be 4.4gr of trailboss with the 40gr v-max?

 

[bohem]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

When working out a load for SS rounds, you want start supersonic and back down.

I've never loaded for the 221 Fireball so I can't help you on a specific load for that case.

 

[TXCOWDOC]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

At sub sonic velocities, does the BC matter? The reason I ask is I plug different bullets (everything from a 220 RN to a 175 SMK) into my trusty iphone app (Ballistic FTE) and using the same MV, my drop out to 200 yds is nearly the same?
My application is .308 win LTR (lefty!!) for night time hog killin. I know Engel (EBR) has a hollow point (Thumper, I believe). Anyone know of a large round hollow point in a 30 cal?
Thanks
TX COWDOC

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

You won't see a huge difference between bullets of the same type. But if you compare a SMK to a RN, you will see a difference, particularly in wind drift.

You could always try drilling out a RN to create a HP. Would be easy to do with a drill press and a small lathe chuck clamped to it.

 

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

300-221 (300 Whisper clone) Savage action, 16" Mcgowen 1:8 twist

8.0 gr Lil' Gun
208 A-Max
221 Fireball - or - Virgin LC 09 brass

1025 fps average
8 fps SD for 10 shots

.31" group at 100

Now I need to work up a load for 240 SMKs

 

[ewoaf]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

at what ranges are you guys doing your workups for these loads? I thought about doing them at 100y but decided on 50y as that would be my most practical range.

 

[Handloader]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Subsonic 44 Mag Ruger 77/44

Best Load to date for a John’s Guns Integrally Suppressed Ruger 77/44

8 Grains HP-38 with Hornady 240g XTP
5 Round group at 1.79Inch at 100 yards
Velocity at 1023 Average (only five shots, with about a 40 f/s spread)
Crimped only enough to take out the bell
COAL at 1.6085 inch

Zeroed at 50yards takes -6.75MOA to 100yards (verified).

Trailboss sucked at 10, 10.5, 10.7, 11g many fliers (6-12 inch group)
Titegroup at 7.2g was a runner up

 

[ohiogunnut]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Just finished up working up a load for the 300 whisper. After trying out three different powders, multiple charges, seating depths, ended up with the following: 2.2600 OAL, 220 SMK, LC brass modified to 300whisper (Kyle Kelly), CCI primer, and 11.0gr A1680 resulting in 1043fps. Gun needed NO modifications with this load (spring/buffer), and cycled 100% with bolt locking back on an empty mag. Accuracy is acceptable at 1.2"@100yrds given the range of the round. Overall very happy

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

Possibly stupid question: i see some suggest opening up the primer hole on subsonic 308s, why?

 

[burnsome]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

tag for any updates

 

[kombayotch]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I've gone to the Lapua 200 gr. subsonic bullet in my 308 Win. 8.0 gr. of Titegroup, magnum primers, no modification to the flash hole. Works in every barrel length and twist I've tried so far with no first round drop and no need for the oil trick.

These really are the ticket if you only want to do subsonics occasionally in a 308 with a standard barrels.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Update:</span> While this load performed well in the summer, the bullets are now tumbling in the air with the arrival of colder weather ( <= freezing)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUM Lover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308 Loads
10" Shillen 1/8 --pistol
240 SMK
15.7 IMR SR 4759
Win cases and WLRM primers
1" group at 100
1060 fps
very consistent, not temp or position sensitive
</div></div>

I experimented with this powder in my 22" 1-10" twist Broughton. It worked extremely well with bullets 208 gr. or heavier. No first round drop, good case fill and groups were an inch or less even though the holes were oval. With a faster twist barrel, this would be a great combination.

 

[coldbeerchief]

Re: Loads fo Subsonics- All Cals

I have 50 308 LC match cases with 9/64" flash holes if anyone is interested - cheap. they are twice fired and annealed. Just size them to your chamber and load.