I'll check to see if I have some H4350 and ruin my marriage for just a couple hours to see if I can figure it out
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super trickler
- Thread starter Sigma
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With a normal trickler, IIRC each stick is ±.03gr, and it likes to clump two occasionally. The fact that it only takes two sticks to make a .06 ∆charge with H4350 is what makes it a huge PITA. That means a proper "engineering" solution would have to throw a single stick reliably. Which I suppose is the whole challenge.
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Just by looking at it, it seems to me like the difficulty is that the stream of powder in the fine stage is really wide/full and for the pulse it requires a skinny stream to get quality results.. if you let the pulse stream level out it requires quite the buffer to stabilize and results in 10 second throws.
I'll keep working on it as well. I'm sure there is something I'm missing.
I'll keep working on it as well. I'm sure there is something I'm missing.
Given your last post, I'd set the low speed on the fine motor really low. Try all the way down to 5%. It will require other adjustments to keep the drop times low, but that's what I'd try first just using logic not experience.
If you want to facetime or zoom I'd be happy to spend 15 minutes seeing what we could achieve.
If you want to facetime or zoom I'd be happy to spend 15 minutes seeing what we could achieve.
For folks waiting, my order number is 758 and is set to ship Jan 20th.
I’m ready to nerd out on this thing!
I’m ready to nerd out on this thing!
Prepare to spend 20+ delightful hours tinkering and perfecting drops in the next 2 weeks! Welcome to the community!
What did you find? Ive been busy all day but maybe by mid week I can get back playing with this thing.I'll check to see if I have some H4350 and ruin my marriage for just a couple hours to see if I can figure it out
I actually went to the LGS in search of some 4350 but couldn’t find any. Then had to hit some toy stores for my soon-to-be 4 year old. May try again tomorrow.
Cabelas has some 8lb jugs of H4350 in stock online. Order and have it shipped to nearest Cabelas or Bass Pro for free and no Hazmat fees.
The ability to save a profile and call it back up when it's time to use that powder/charge weight again is what has me jumping to the ST. I'd rather not spend time reconfiguring a machine every time I use a different powder.
AI only in 15ish throws. Below 10s was easy.
Put your settings in the other thread
Supertrickler settings thread
Just got mine 3 days ago (and I LOVE this thing which is rivaled only by my AMP annealer as an object of technological reloading awesomeness), and have spent about 4 hours each night trying to use human intelligence to improve upon the artificial intelligence settings. I will revise this OP as I...
www.snipershide.com
Have tried N570, and have had a couple of overthrows. Still messing around with that powder. Hoping to get better results.
I’m amazed you are able to get that type of success rate. I’ve been trying to find a good setting for 39.2gr of H4350 for almost a month now and the most I’ve been able to get was 15 and that was only one time. I’m struggling with 4350View attachment 8049289I finally took my super tickler out to my reloading bench for some real world work. 50 in a row with zero overthrows, a whole tray of 223, averaging right around 5 1/2 seconds per throw. Check the stats. Last one was 4.7 seconds.
We need to have a contest to see what the best results are with different settings. And if anybody wants to go head to head with their auto tripler, hit me up
ETA: these are the same settings from the 30 minute "tuning" video posted above. I learned from Peter Kowald, the software/AI developer on the FB group, that the numbers under the time (4.7 seconds) that say bulk, fine, and pulse are the "inflight" weights for that last drop. So you can monitor them for stability and to understand why some throws are different/slower/faster/overages than others - it's because of those varying and unpredictable inflights. In the video I didn't describe it correctly.
Very cool. I'm not planning to dick around much beyond AI so long as I'm not getting constant under/over throws, so your "AI only" findings make me happy
Paid for order 845 today with a planned shipping date of 27 Jan. Looks like they’re 60+ days ahead of schedule at this point. Not sure if they were able to pick up production or a bunch of preorders backed out, but I’ll take it.
My guess is he hired more people. I doubt anybody is backing out given the feedback so far. And CONGRATULATIONS! You’re in for a treat
683 came in a couple weeks ago, need to get it out of the box. Been out of town, Interested in the AI setting
Guys I can't say enough good things about the ST.
Right now I'm interacting with the programmer in real time via messanger in Australia from Utah. I had suggested, less than one week ago, that the display screen show your average drop time. He already released a firmware update with that option. I'm playing with it and communicating with him in real time telling him my observations (I found a minor glitch) and he's on it like flies on dung. Incredible folks these ST guys.
Another user, a Mr. Ross on FB, suggested that the pulse settings allow the user (and the AI) to set a high and a low value for it rather than an average pulse speed (I think that's how the original version worked - it had one setting say 85%; now it has a high and a low %). It's right there in the latest firmware update. Detracts nothing, adds something for the tinkerers and makes the product better.
I cannot imagine a better group of guys to manage a product release. As others have said, they are unbelievably responsive to user feedback.
It just keeps getting better and betterer.
Right now I'm interacting with the programmer in real time via messanger in Australia from Utah. I had suggested, less than one week ago, that the display screen show your average drop time. He already released a firmware update with that option. I'm playing with it and communicating with him in real time telling him my observations (I found a minor glitch) and he's on it like flies on dung. Incredible folks these ST guys.
Another user, a Mr. Ross on FB, suggested that the pulse settings allow the user (and the AI) to set a high and a low value for it rather than an average pulse speed (I think that's how the original version worked - it had one setting say 85%; now it has a high and a low %). It's right there in the latest firmware update. Detracts nothing, adds something for the tinkerers and makes the product better.
I cannot imagine a better group of guys to manage a product release. As others have said, they are unbelievably responsive to user feedback.
It just keeps getting better and betterer.
How is the unit updated when a new firmware update is released? Presume there's an SD card or is the unit plugged into a computer to chat with homebase over the internet?
Download update, cut and paste onto SD card reinsert SD into ST and it immediately recognizes the update file and installs it. You don’t even have to push a button.
Mine is scheduled to ship on the 27th. I’m pretty excited to try this thing out. Is it pretty straightforward on setup? Or is this a weekend full of trial and error to get it running correctly? Mostly just going to be running Varget and H4350.
You just have to read the manual when you set it up. Only problem I had was reconfiguring my scale from AT to ST settings bc I skipped 2 pages of the manual.
You'll get it up and running pretty quick. The black hole that you get sucked into is when you get speed gready. Even with AI only this thing is neck and neck with the AT (from what I've seen). Use that for a few days if you need to build confidence in the product.
What kind of speeds are you getting without getting greedy on let’s say a Varget charge of 30.0? Thanks
33.8 ~ 4.5 secs , maybe 1 in 30 loads is a grain over, be warned speed is addictive
Average about 5.5 seconds for 25 grains and zero overthrows in this run of 50
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So apparently, I’m a beta tester now. Check out this newest update for the read out. Statistics. Exactly what we want to know as far as I’m concerned and I bet you will agree. It now tells you your average drop time your number of drops and your success rate. You can reset it manually whenever you want and you can either include over charges or exclude over charges in the average. Now, we can all compare our settings with statistical output, measured by the machine which prevents cheating and selective presentation of the data. This means if I share my screen like this one and I had 25 drops with an average of 6.6 in the success rate of 96%, that’s what I had. You don’t have to count on me to tell you oh I got 50 in a row with an average time of XYZ and only ABC over charges. The machine prevents you from exaggerating your results with these outputs.
Notice too that I cheated. I recorded these outputs with a red light below meaning that I did it right after an overthrow. You can know that by lookig at the error under cup "OFF" where it says 0.06 (which was a 0.06 overthrow). And, my 6.6 time is higher than my optimistic post above where I said 50 in a row with average "around" 5.5 seconds. Part of the reason for this is I'm running the machine in my unheated garage which is 25 degrees right now and the machine is *definitely* temperature sensitive like Alliant Reloder powders. The vibration fine/pulse motor has markedly different operating characteristics in different temperatures. If you're in a temperature controlled environment, it's a non-issue. But if it's cold, the fine/pulse settings change significantly as the machine heats up. I will have a post about that and how to compensate for it in the future on the facebook page.
Notice too that I cheated. I recorded these outputs with a red light below meaning that I did it right after an overthrow. You can know that by lookig at the error under cup "OFF" where it says 0.06 (which was a 0.06 overthrow). And, my 6.6 time is higher than my optimistic post above where I said 50 in a row with average "around" 5.5 seconds. Part of the reason for this is I'm running the machine in my unheated garage which is 25 degrees right now and the machine is *definitely* temperature sensitive like Alliant Reloder powders. The vibration fine/pulse motor has markedly different operating characteristics in different temperatures. If you're in a temperature controlled environment, it's a non-issue. But if it's cold, the fine/pulse settings change significantly as the machine heats up. I will have a post about that and how to compensate for it in the future on the facebook page.
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You guys keep pumping out this awesome info on this thing and saving me so much time . I’ve been copying your setting and wow this things is next level. it smokes the v4 in every way . Keep up all the hard work ……so I don’t have to
96 223 VARGET loads average time 6.3 seconds (see beta firmware screen settings) and 92% accuracy. Plus this was in my 30 degree garage which is suboptimal cuz I had to adjust the vibrator settings as the fine motor heated up. So the 92% was *with adjustments in real time* because of temperature changes. if you do the math, the throws took 10 minutes. If it takes you the same 6ish seconds to move the cup back and forth, you could charge 100 cases in well under 30 minutes. Maybe even 20. ;-)
if you do the math, the throws took 10 minutes. If it takes you the same 6ish seconds to move the cup back and forth, you could charge 100 cases in well under 30 minutes. Maybe even 20. ;-)
I met my match with RETUMBO tonight. Hours of fiddling with it, and nothing but blood, sweat, toil, and tears. But I achieved my goal. I would not consider it a realistic goal, honestly, because RETUMBO is just a difficult powder to dispense. Consider it an upper limit to what you can to. I did manage to dispense 40 charges of 92.5 grains in under 10 seconds with a 10% error rate. That was the goal. I'm not sure honestly I could duplicate it over the long run. Observations:
First, don't try to push the limits like this unless you're in a climate controlled environment with a stable temperature. As the temperature changes, so does the vibratory motor speed and you will drive yourself mad.
Next, you HAVE TO watch the small tube when you make changes if you have lofty goals.
With RETUMBO (and probably lots of large stick powders) small tube loading is a key factor for consistency. For RETUMBO, you only want the FINE MOTOR to engage for one run. If it does a second run, the tube will be variably loaded and wreak chaos on consistency. Also, I set the fine motor speeds in a narrow range which was also to force it to do the same thing each load to make tube loading consistent for the pulse instrument. If the tube was variably loaded for the pulse phase, overages went through the roof.
That's about all the guidance I can give other than my final settings which are in the pics below. I had to change basically every setting. The "stable" times are longer than they are for my other powders, is the only other general guidance I can provide.
Good luck. Honestly, 12-14 seconds with >90% success rate is more realistic for this powder which nearly drove me mad.
Do note that while I was "fiddling" with the machine, I could have loaded about 400 338 Lapua rounds - I only loaded 100, but on the up side, even if you screw around and have a 25% error rate while you're "tuning" (I did), you're at least loading shells with the 75% that were *spot on*, and, if you're like me, you had a lot of fun in the process. #retumbo #supertrickler
First, don't try to push the limits like this unless you're in a climate controlled environment with a stable temperature. As the temperature changes, so does the vibratory motor speed and you will drive yourself mad.
Next, you HAVE TO watch the small tube when you make changes if you have lofty goals.
With RETUMBO (and probably lots of large stick powders) small tube loading is a key factor for consistency. For RETUMBO, you only want the FINE MOTOR to engage for one run. If it does a second run, the tube will be variably loaded and wreak chaos on consistency. Also, I set the fine motor speeds in a narrow range which was also to force it to do the same thing each load to make tube loading consistent for the pulse instrument. If the tube was variably loaded for the pulse phase, overages went through the roof.
That's about all the guidance I can give other than my final settings which are in the pics below. I had to change basically every setting. The "stable" times are longer than they are for my other powders, is the only other general guidance I can provide.
Good luck. Honestly, 12-14 seconds with >90% success rate is more realistic for this powder which nearly drove me mad.
Do note that while I was "fiddling" with the machine, I could have loaded about 400 338 Lapua rounds - I only loaded 100, but on the up side, even if you screw around and have a 25% error rate while you're "tuning" (I did), you're at least loading shells with the 75% that were *spot on*, and, if you're like me, you had a lot of fun in the process. #retumbo #supertrickler
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Can you run two cups with the super trickler, so it dumps in cup #1 then you remove cup #1 and
put cup #2 on the scale while you pour the powder into the case cup #2 is complete.
put cup #2 on the scale while you pour the powder into the case cup #2 is complete.
It’s been talked about but I haven’t seen it done yet. Would need a second ST cup. It fits quite precisely on the platen
