Night Vision Super Yoter C - Any Experience Yet?

[chase723]

Some pics from today.
I took my Steiner M5xi 3-15 off my AR 6.5 and put it on an extra rail. These pics don’t really come close to doing it justice because in order to get the image perspective that big I had to 2x digital zoom the camera on my phone…so by default the resolution is 1/2. Regardless it gives you some idea. These are pics of my buddy walking out to 500 painting targets. I left the optical mag pretty low because it’s flipping hard to take these pics and trying to take multiple and adjust the magnification level simultaneously at multiple distances while the subject is moving is next to impossible.

3x optical at ~100

3x optical at ~150

3x optical 2x digital at 200

3x optical 4x digital at ~250

3x optical @300

4-5x optical 2x digital ~450

 

[chase723]

5-6x optical 2x digital 400. I think it’s either a 24” or 30”

15x optical 2x digital. Same gong @400.

 

[chase723]

Thermal conditions for the above post were 85F and 90% humidity…typical south Georgia morning.

 

[Reload10]

1.5" optical center with the pic rail mount? Looks like an awesome image for $4800.

 

[jstokes1]

1.5" optical center?

Should be, yes.

 

[rlsmith1]

What's the weight? Length? Love the form factor.

@chase723 Thanks a ton for the images looks like the 2x digital mag is powerful

 

[The King]

1.5" optical center?

Yes

 

[NET65]

No electro optic will that I’m aware of. Not even a UTCx or Xii.

According to Nvision the Halo will.

 

[chevy_man]

View attachment 7715479OK
View attachment 7715480

I thought that rifle looked awful familiar, started looking at the benches, and realized when I read the name. Small world.

I was just looking at the units the local store brought in, and was told to go online and look up the Bering units. Looks like John should have asked you which units he should be selling.

 

[jstokes1]

I thought that rifle looked awful familiar, started looking at the benches, and realized when I read the name. Small world.

I was just looking at the units the local store brought in, and was told to go online and look up the Bering units. Looks like John should have asked you which units he should be selling.

I tried to give them some insight.. but they went with ATN (mostly because that's who would sell in bulk and I undertsand that reasoning.)

 

[jstokes1]

Got some ultra long distance shots last night looking out to 30 plus miles. As you can see, this scope can see WELL past what the detection range is... and can even detect cows at over a mile, houses at least 3-4 miles away. Pay attention to the mountain in the back ground and you'll notice that you can still see trees/deviations in the landscape.

Most photos were taken at 3-4 optical mag 1x digital, one at 10x optical 1x digital and another right after at 10x optical 2x digital on a building that's 1 mile away.

 

[Jfservices]

I have one I use with an acog on an ar15 and a B10 on a short bolt gun. I love mine. I had a Trijicon snipe IR and hated it. The Yoter is night and day better than that POS and has way more features.

 

[SkyScrapin]

According to Nvision the Halo will.

Until it kills too many pixels and the display has to be flashed. Unfortunate side affect of the SCAR. Had one. Loved it. It didn’t love me or my thermals

 

[WhereNow&How]

With a rifle named SCAR who would have "thunk" any differently.

The name accurately describes the rifle.

 

[jstokes1]

Got some good decent distance photos with the NSX 2.5-20x50 mm NF. I'll post them later

 

[jstokes1]

A sample: 12x optical, 150 yards

 

[jstokes1]

Finally got a really good, full image resolution image that's essentially a one to one ratio of what you can expect looking through the yoter.

 

[shoots100]

Very clear and detailed, but that should be the case with really any decent res unit at close range.
The real test, is that it holds relative zero at longer ranges after being removed/ remounted with either the rail or Obj mounts, without having to check zero before going into the field every time ?
The image of this optic is really nice, but it's a clip on and all the bells + whistles are useless, if it doesn't function as a clip on.

 

[jstokes1]

Very clear and detailed, but that should be the case with really any decent res unit at close range.
The real test, is that it holds relative zero at longer ranges after being removed/ remounted with either the rail or Obj mounts, without having to check zero before going into the field every time ?
The image of this optic is really nice, but it's a clip on and all the bells + whistles are useless, if it doesn't function as a clip on.

It does everything that a clip on is suppose to do, on top of having a great image and it looks fantastic at distance.

 

[Evolution 9]

As has been discussed and proven elsewhere, ONLY clip ons which feature a risley prism can claim to have the full features and functionality of a real clip on. No Bearing Optics thermal has that.

What’s the difference in Practical terms?

1. A prism collimated clip on can be moved from gun to gun to gun. To do this with a “screen aligned” device requires that you sight it in specifically for each gun you will use, no grab-clip-go ability. Add in the possibility of error in matching the gun to the correct pre set reticle/screen position…

2. Within reason, prism collimated clip ons aren’t affected by misalignment… so a scraped, dented, muddy rail won’t cause a miss, nor will mounting a slot or two forward of your usual spot (you are attaching this in the dark after all). A “screen aligned” device is literally and simply a second sighted in scope. This means all of the above mentioned conditions WILL prevent a true return to zero and cause a miss. Similarly, almost NOBODY on the Hide would mount their primary optic on their hand guard rail or anywhere but their receiver, because of obvious flex issues. That’s EXACTLY what you’re doing with a “screen aligned” device and your zero is affected by that flex EXACTLY the same as mounting your day scope on the hand guard.

3. Even in a perfect world with clean surfaces, you are FULLY relying on the return to zero capabilities of the mount. Most of us don’t trust those enough to remove our day scope, reattach, and face serious situations without confirming zero. That’s EXACTLY what you’re doing every single time you mount your screen aligned devices.

There are other very real differences in capabilities between the two methods, but they are not always encountered so I’ll leave them for another discussion.

Simply put, for hogs and coyotes, screen aligned units are just fine and probably even fantastic…

However, if you’re wanting really long shots (one of the advantages of clip ons to begin with), or if you’re “playing for keeps” in a LEO, military or other high consequence game, there are real actual measurable differences.

FYI, I LOVE Bering Optics and used their great devices years before most anyone had ever heard of them. I recommend their devices to LOTS of my friends, and I may get the Yoter clip on in question for myself.

 

[jstokes1]

As has been discussed and proven elsewhere, ONLY clip ons which feature a risley prism can claim to have the full features and functionality of a real clip on. No Bearing Optics thermal has that.

What’s the difference in Practical terms?

1. A prism collimated clip on can be moved from gun to gun to gun. To do this with a “screen aligned” device requires that you sight it in specifically for each gun you will use, no grab-clip-go ability. Add in the possibility of error in matching the gun to the correct pre set reticle/screen position…

2. Within reason, prism collimated clip ons aren’t affected by misalignment… so a scraped, dented, muddy rail won’t cause a miss, nor will mounting a slot or two forward of your usual spot (you are attaching this in the dark after all). A “screen aligned” device is literally and simply a second sighted in scope. This means all of the above mentioned conditions WILL prevent a true return to zero and cause a miss. Similarly, almost NOBODY on the Hide would mount their primary optic on their hand guard rail or anywhere but their receiver, because of obvious flex issues. That’s EXACTLY what you’re doing with a “screen aligned” device and your zero is affected by that flex EXACTLY the same as mounting your day scope on the hand guard.

There are other very real differences in capabilities between the two methods, but they are not always encountered so I’ll leave them for another discussion.

Simply put, for hogs and coyotes, screen aligned units are just fine and probably even fantastic…

However, if you’re wanting really long shots (one of the advantages of clip ons to begin with), or if you’re “playing for keeps” in a LEO, military or other high consequence game, there are real actual measurable differences.

Yes, we know this. However, name me a 640 res clip on thermal that is Riley Prism collimated that costs under 15k and is warranty covered. Because if there is, then I'm all ears

 

[Evolution 9]

Yes, we know this. However, name me a 640 res clip on thermal that is Riley Prism collimated that costs under 15k and is warranty covered. Because if there is, then I'm all ears

Totally agree, it appears to be a fantastic unit at a great price. That’s why I may get one.

I just see people not understanding the benefits of genuine military style clip ons, and because of that, we don’t ask commercial manufacturers for them… and because of THAT, we don’t get them.

If we tell the manufacturers that there IS a difference to us, we may just get what we’re asking for.

 

[jstokes1]

Totally agree, it appears to be a fantastic unit at a great price. That’s why I may get one.

I just see people not understanding the benefits of genuine military style clip ons, and because of that, we don’t ask commercial manufacturers for them… and because of THAT, we don’t get them.

If we tell the manufacturers that there IS a difference to us, we may just get what we’re asking for.

I guess to me personally I understand the benefits and differences, so it seems redundant.

But yes, it would be nice if a US manufacturer came out with a civi prism collimated clip on that has a 1280HD display, 640 res, and manual focus.

If such unit did come to be and around the $12k mark... I'd chose that over about any other optic.
Trijicon had the opportunity to make this happen, and instead came out with a subpar (putting it nicely) clip on unit that underperformed like Joe Biden's presidency.

 

[rlsmith1]

To me, enough Yoter C’s will be sold that it will have to be collimated and have the same (or better) resolution to get people to sell their Yoter C to to upgrade. Pricing will need to be competitive but there’s room to upcharge if the unit is more capable. Capitalism baby

 

[jstokes1]

To me, enough Yoter C’s will be sold that it will have to be collimated and have the same (or better) resolution to get people to sell their Yoter C to to upgrade. Pricing will need to be competitive but there’s room to upcharge if the unit is more capable. Capitalism baby

The Super Yoter has changed the civi market clip on game (my opinion.... but I'm biased), and hopefully US manufacturers take notice VERY soon.

 

[rlsmith1]

I agree!

Would it even be possible to sell a prism kit / upgrade to convert these to a collimated system? I’m sure it’s been explore and I have no idea how those magic little prisms work but seems like it would be done already if it was complex and expensive

 

[jstokes1]

I agree!

Would it even be possible to sell a prism kit / upgrade to convert these to a collimated system? I’m sure it’s been explore and I have no idea how those magic little prisms work but seems like it would be done already if it was complex and expensive

It would have to be aligned on a collimating table... so more than likely not.

 

[chase723]

I hope someone makes a clip on with an integrated rangefinder. That would be baller.

 

[The King]

I want a US made Risley prism unit too. It needs to be less than $10k now, though.

I don't have an unlimited amount of guns, and I can write the collimation numbers from the thermal on the scope cap or the side of the scope
bell for $5000.

Put another way...If its a $15,000 risley prism clip on, I can just buy 3 friggin yoter C's and leave them on the guns I'm ever gonna use with an NV clip on.

Or build a dedicated rig.

Risley prism thermal or Yoter-C ($5k) with the highest end SB scope made ($5k) on top of a Knights Armament 6.5 CM ($5k). Tough choice.

If you have a gun dedicated to the use case, you can pick the caliber and day optic carefully and really maximize your experience. And have 2 additional clip on guns for friends.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but I sold all of my dedicated thermals with this new clip on and steiner's clip on being released later this year. I completely agree it's cost effective to just have multiple of these clip ons on multiple systems rather than one LWTS-LR.

 

[rlsmith1]

Haven't had an opportunity to use it yet, but I sold all of my dedicated thermals with this new clip on and steiner's clip on being released later this year. I completely agree it's cost effective to just have multiple of these clip ons on multiple systems rather than one LWTS-LR.

How do you like the mount? Not sure I understand why the cantilever but it might be needed in some rare situations. Any option for a more inline mount?

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

It can be mounted directly to the optic with adapters. I personally like the cantilever for ease of use.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Also got a sub 1 MOA group at 100 yards

 

[rlsmith1]

Yeah not a fan of direct to the scope mounting. Just wondering if the cantilever would magnify recoil especially on 308 gassers. Glad it's repeatable though

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

It's a suppressed 7.62x39 running cheap russian steel case ammo. Very gassy.

 

[Joeymac]

@Surgeon_Shooter
@jstokes1
@kirsch
@chase723

By now have you guys also had a chance to look at the Super Yoter R? If so, can you share your opinion on SY clip on as it directly compares to the SY rail mounted scope? I’m talking strictly performance...

• Which lets you reach out further with precision?
• Are 600-700 yd shots on feasible with either? (That’s about as far as .308 or 6.5CM carry 1000 ftlb energy)
• Is it true the daylight optic’s zero only holds true (properly screen aligned) when the Yoter C is set to 1X digital mag? If so, how bad is zero shift at 2x or 4x digital?
• Am I correct in thinking the C gives more versatility; run it with a LPVO @ 1X to scan wide areas, use day optic @ 6-10x and/or digital mag to reach out far, or pull it off and use it handheld like a monocular with a high magnification eyepiece for long range PID?

I’m really looking to get a sub-$5k weapon thermal sight and kind of stuck between the Super Yoter R, Super Yoter C, or Thermion 2 XP50. I still might still decide to save $1500 and go with the new XQ38 though. I’m leaning towards the SY C unless there’s a compelling reason not to... it seems very convenient. If it matters I have a couple rifles I could pair it with that have Razor HD LHT, LRTSi, VX-6 1-6x, and VX-R 1-4x.

Whereas if I went with a Yoter R or XP50 I’d have to swap a couple of the guns’ non-QD mounts out for QD mounts... or carry around my torque wrench for swapping optics and hope I don’t cause zero shifts when reinstalling day optics.

 

[The King]

@Surgeon_Shooter
@jstokes1
@kirsch
@chase723

By now have you guys also had a chance to look at the Super Yoter R? If so, can you share your opinion on SY clip on as it directly compares to the SY rail mounted scope? I’m talking strictly performance...

• Which lets you reach out further with precision?
• Are 600-700 yd shots feasible with either? (That’s about as far as .308 or 6.5CM carry 1000 ftlb energy)
• Is it true the daylight optic’s zero only holds true (properly collimated) when the Yoter C is set to 1X digital mag? If so, how bad is zero shift at 2x or 4x digital?
• Am I correct in thinking the C gives more versatility; run it with a LPVO @ 1X to scan wide areas, use day optic @ 6-10x and/or digital mag to reach out far, or pull it off and use it handheld like a monocular with a high magnification eyepiece for long range PID?

I’m really looking to get a sub-$5k weapon thermal sight and kind of stuck between the Super Yoter R, Super Yoter C, or Thermion 2 XP50. I still might still decide to save $1500 and go with the new XQ38 though. I’m leaning towards the SY C unless there’s a compelling reason not to... it seems very convenient. If it matters I have a couple rifles I could pair it with that have Razor Gen2, Razor LHT, LRTSi, ACOGs, VX-6 1-6x, and VX-R 1-4x.

Whereas if I went with a Yoter R or XP50 I’d have to swap a couple of the guns’ non-QD mounts out for QD mounts... or carry around my torque wrench for swapping optics and hope I don’t cause zero shifts when reinstalling day optics.

I’m one of the posters here with the SYC.

I have a steel plate that for some reason stands out on thermals more than any other steel plate at my place. it’s 6” in diameter and is at 900m.

I can see and hit it over and over again with the SYC.

Shooting steel with thermals sucks some - very hard to see where things are. There is frequently an inversion point for temperature where for about 30 mins most of the steel is quite visible. Other than that, very hard to see.

I don’t believe shooting an animal at that distance would be practical due to constraints on PID without a similar NV clip on.

 

[Joeymac]

I’m one of the posters here with the SYC.

I have a steel plate that for some reason stands out on thermals more than any other steel plate at my place. it’s 6” in diameter and is at 900m.

I can see and hit it over and over again with the SYC.

Shooting steel with thermals sucks some - very hard to see where things are. There is frequently an inversion point for temperature where for about 30 mins most of the steel is quite visible. Other than that, very hard to see.

I don’t believe shooting an animal at that distance would be practical due to constraints on PID without a similar NV clip on.

That’s awesome to hear, King! Any chance you’ve got a comparison with something like the Super Yoter R or Gen2 XP50?

Just out of curiosity, how much larger than your daylight scope’s objective is the adapter ring? I’m just wondering if I’d need new higher rings because the barrel/bell clearance on one of my bolt gunS is like .180” and on the other is .240”

Indeed Agreed on the PID... I plan to get a 5x lens for a gen 3 MUM-14 style handheld unit I have and then figure out a way to attach a cheapie IR LED light with long throw to it. Just as something I can keep in a pouch and use to see good detail a longer way off when needed.

 

[chase723]

I haven’t used the SY-R. The SY-C is my first thermal optic. I can see the benefit of both a dedicated thermal optic and a clip on.

LPVOs seem to be the deal unless you’ve got like $20K for something that can accommodate higher. You can get away with something like a 3-15 or 4-20 but you do miss out on seeing the entire FOV on the low end and the SY-C is super sensitive and can pick up tons of shit that seems somewhat incredible…like airplanes at 35K feet that 100% look like airplanes, and not some thermal blob.

The SY-C is interesting in that on 1x digital it’s really good up to about 6x optical (8-10 is useable but 4-6 is fantastic) and then once you know what you are looking at you can easily dial it up to 10x optical, but at 2x digital you can use 15-18x optical for more precise shot placement. I think it’s because at 2x digital the image takes up twice as many pixels…regardless the digital zoom is extremely useful. At 2x digital the image hardly degrades.

With the clip on, nothing changes from your day optic standpoint. You just clip it on when your ready. The way it works to accommodate for a shift with digital zoom is that you obtain a unified zero (I.e. zero your weapon and then zero the thermal to your weapon by adjusting/moving the screen-there’s a menu function for this). You then can align your digital zoom to your reticle via another menu function and your GTG. If you like your day optic at lower mags, like the reticle, don’t want to take it on and off etc. Clip ons are great. You can use your holdovers and adjust your image with optical and digital mag as you see fit. It also allows you to save 4 profiles.

If you have a dedicated thermal weapon sight (DTWS) with a QD mount you can also use it as a scanner if you want (SY-C is a hybrid scanner clip on actually…and works very well as a scanner). If you have a QD mount on your optic then I think it’s probably kind of a wash, but I don’t know since I haven’t used anything else.

I think the potential advantage of a DTWS is that everything is closer to you from a button standpoint (literally not reaching as far), the resolution is probably a little bit better because the device will have a native magnification (say 2.5x) and the image will be 640 res at that base magnification instead of native 1x (so long as they have the same screen resolution). Several models now have an integrated rangefinder and have reticle options that digitally scale in the first focal plane. The compactness and functionality of all of that is very appealing. It all also comes at a cost…and this game ain’t cheap.

As far as shots at 750 yards, yes I think totally possible. I haven’t shot mine that far yet but I have shot steel at 500…like @The King said though shooting steel with a thermal kind of sucks. Things that give off real thermal signatures are way better. Deer sized living target at 500 would be no problem.

 

[chase723]

For perspective on PID capability, for something like a person at 500 yards it’s pretty much instantaneous…

 

[The King]

That’s awesome to hear, King! Any chance you’ve got a comparison with something like the Super Yoter R or Gen2 XP50?

Just out of curiosity, how much larger than your daylight scope’s objective is the adapter ring? I’m just wondering if I’d need new higher rings because the barrel/bell clearance on one of my bolt gunS is like .180” and on the other is .240”

Indeed Agreed on the PID... I plan to get a 5x lens for a gen 3 MUM-14 style handheld unit I have and then figure out a way to attach a cheapie IR LED light with long throw to it. Just as something I can keep in a pouch and use to see good detail a longer way off when needed.

I use the picatinny mount for it and not the bell mount.

I have had the Trijicon IR hunter mK3, the XG50 (BAE sensor Pulsar), and have used the UTC.

The Yoter-C is VERY similar to the UTC, but has less demag. So the image is similar but it doesn't want to go as high in power. There are VERY few units that kick the Yoter-C's ass, but a HISS-XLR is one. Think nice new Porsche pricing though.

Aaand the Yoter-C kicked the shit out of the Trijicon and was 2 times better than the XG50 was, for reference. LIke 8 times better than the Trijicon in actual field use.

I hate the Yoter-C for the same reason I hate the high end Holosun stuff. Its made in China and by god its well done.

One of the key things that goes with a Clip On is you keep your eye relief of your daytime optic...lots of dedicated units really snub you up on the eyepiece and you get a chance to get EL Kabonged. Disadvantage - I haven't found out if they make eyepiece bellows for day optics yet, and the image gets mighty dark when you are looking at it during the day.

 

[Joeymac]

...You can get away with something like a 3-15 or 4-20 but you do miss out on seeing the entire FOV on the low end ...

If you have a dedicated thermal weapon sight (DTWS) with a QD mount you can also use it as a scanner if you want (SY-C is a hybrid scanner clip on actually…and works very well as a scanner). If you have a QD mount on your optic then I think it’s probably kind of a wash, but I don’t know since I haven’t used anything else.

I think the potential advantage of a DTWS is ... the resolution is probably a little bit better because the device will have a native magnification (say 2.5x) and the image will be 640 res at that base magnification instead of native 1x (so long as they have the same screen resolution).

Ive been chewing on these parts of what you wrote and it seems to me that you’re right... if I want to be able to leverage the thermal at the furthest distances I can as accurately as possible then the one with the most native mag gives me the most range. The SY R gives resolution at 3x, the XP50 at 2x, and the SY C at 1X; so you would expect the SY R to give 3x the resolvable range as the SY C and the XP50 to give 2x the ultimate resolvable range.

But then I also want the best of both worlds... as you mentioned scanning is either going to dictate an LPVO or QD removal.

In the optical world, more zoom almost invariably means less FOV... but here is what I see that’s interesting:
SY C = 8.8x7.0 degrees
SY R = 8.5x6.4 degrees
XP50 = 12.4x9.3 degrees

Is this correct? This says the 1X native clip on barely has more FOV than the SY R 3x scope which would suggest that they both are basically similar for scanning except the SY R is doing it at 3X. Even more interesting is the suggestion that the XP50 has *notably* (like 30-40%) larger scan area than even the clip on and does it at 2X.

It would seem to me the best/fastest scanner of the 3 should actually be the gen 2 XP50 equipped with a QD Mount. And max resolvable range should be between the SY C and SY R.

Again, this is all based on reading the spec sheet, it’s be nice to hear from someone who has looked through the SY C and R and gen2 XP50 side by side.

 

[The King]

Ive been chewing on these parts of what you wrote and it seems to me that you’re right... if I want to be able to leverage the thermal at the furthest distances I can as accurately as possible then the one with the most native mag gives me the most range. The SY R gives resolution at 3x, the XP50 at 2x, and the SY C at 1X; so you would expect the SY R to give 3x the resolvable range as the SY C and the XP50 to give 2x the ultimate resolvable range.

But then I also want the best of both worlds... as you mentioned scanning is either going to dictate an LPVO or QD removal.

In the optical world, more zoom almost invariably means less FOV... but here is what I see that’s interesting:
SY C = 8.8x7.0 degrees
SY R = 8.5x6.4 degrees
XP50 = 12.4x9.3 degrees

Is this correct? This says the 1X native clip on barely has more FOV than the SY R 3x scope which would suggest that they both are basically similar for scanning except the SY R is doing it at 3X. Even more interesting is the suggestion that the XP50 has *notably* (like 30-40%) larger scan area than even the clip on and does it at 2X.

It would seem to me the best/fastest scanner of the 3 should actually be the gen 2 XP50 equipped with a QD Mount. And max resolvable range should be between the SY C and SY R.

It doesn't work that way with the SY-C. The SY-C magnifies the image going to the sensor 3 power - just the same as the SY-R does...but then the SY-C DEMAGNIFIES the image 3x to get a 1x output on the rear. But the 1x output is at 3x the resolution of native output.

Put another way - the pixels per milliradian of the SY-C is very high - allowing an optic to magnify the image to 3x before you have exactly the same image that a SY-R has on the back end. This is very useful for making the day optic work right and provide an acceptable image.

75mm units do this even better, with more ass end demag.

 

[rlsmith1]

Demagnification - think looking through binoculars backwards. When paired with a magnified front end, the net mag is zero

 

[Jlknights61]

This demagnification I’m assuming this is why you need the attachable eyepiece to use it as a scanner, and the native magnification if you just held the sy-c up and looked at the screen would be less than 1x (~.33x?)

 

[Joeymac]

ok, so the IR side of things on both the Super Yoter R and the C are about the same native ~3X (?); but the optical side of the R is an eyepiece and the optical side of the clip on just smooshes the image down so when your scope zooms in on it the screen doesn’t look like pixelated ass (?)

If I’m understanding correct...
At 3x dayscope mag, the SY C would look about like the 3x native SY R. And the SY C with 6x dayscope (or 3x dayscope + 2x digital) would look about like the SY R at 6x (3x native + 2x digital)?

So the SY R and C should both handily outdistance the XP50 because they’re starting with higher native mag. Sounds like the C is the one I want, then... easily clips to rails on my ARs and Tavors and direct mounts to bolt-gun scopes... lets me keep my eye relief and reticles and not be dismounting primary optics.

 

[The King]

ok, so the IR side of things on both the Super Yoter R and the C are about the same native ~3X (?); but the optical side of the R is an eyepiece and the optical side of the clip on just smooshes the image down so when your scope zooms in on it the screen doesn’t look like pixelated ass (?)

If I’m understanding correct...
At 3x dayscope mag, the SY C would look about like the 3x native SY R. And the SY C with 6x dayscope (or 3x dayscope + 2x digital) would look about like the SY R at 6x (3x native + 2x digital)?

So the SY R and C should both handily outdistance the XP50 because they’re starting with higher native mag. Sounds like the C is the one I want, then... easily clips to rails on my ARs and Tavors and direct mounts to bolt-gun scopes... lets me keep my eye relief and reticles and not be dismounting primary optics.

It’s a debate.

I have done it both ways, I immensely like the clip on more.

Some people immensely like the dedicated scope more.

Your understanding is correct. I am a little surprised at the FOv differences between the two - I expected none.

Also, I can dial a daytime scope for drop far better than I can figure out some strange fuckery the thermal manufacturer tossed in as an afterthought.

Cost is a thing - many people build a dedicated shorty .300 BO for thermal work because it well matches the ranges typically seen and the animals typically hunted.

I also ran dedicated on a .224V because I was able to point and click for quite a distance with light bullets at ultra-high fps.

 

[Joeymac]

See, I’m thinking something like a Tavor 7 or MDR with a 1-6x, 1-8x or 2-10X is about the ideal platform... hear me out...

• 155gr Amax has phenomenal terminal performance... 40% bigger bullet going about 300fps faster than 110gr Blackout. The 155gr Amax reliably fragments out to 600 yards from a 16.5” barrel (1550fps frag threshold). 110gr TAC-X from a 10.5” blackout only expands (doesn’t even frag) out to 300yd or so. The Tavor/MDR will be shorter than a 10.5” AR.
• The Tavor isn’t a tack driver by any means, but its 1.5-2MOA is perfectly fine on 8-12” vital zones out to 500-600 yards.
• Full length top rail you don’t have to worry about flexing and causing POI shift.
• Bullpup keeps clip on placed directly over offhand for easy settings adjustment.
• Bullpup weight distribution and ergos make it very easy hold and shoulder to scan for extended periods of time versus a longer front heavy gun.
• Wanna shoot quietly with a can? Shut off gas block with twist of a knob and 170gr JSP subsonics are legitimately Hollywood quiet. The side charging handle gives a straight-pull bolt-action feel. Clip on can have a saved profile to account for subsonic zero shift.

 

[The King]

See, I’m thinking something like a Tavor 7 or MDR with a 1-6x, 1-8x or 2-10X is about the ideal platform... hear me out...

• 155gr Amax has phenomenal terminal performance... 40% bigger bullet going about 300fps faster than 110gr Blackout. The 155gr Amax reliably fragments out to 600 yards from a 16.5” barrel (1550fps frag threshold). 110gr TAC-X from a 10.5” blackout only expands (doesn’t even frag) out to 300yd or so. The Tavor/MDR will be shorter than a 10.5” AR.
• The Tavor isn’t a tack driver by any means, but its 1.5-2MOA is perfectly fine on 8-12” vital zones out to 500-600 yards.
• Full length top rail you don’t have to worry about flexing and causing POI shift.
• Bullpup keeps clip on placed directly over offhand for easy settings adjustment.
• Bullpup weight distribution and ergos make it very easy hold and shoulder to scan for extended periods of time versus a longer front heavy gun.
• Wanna shoot quietly with a can? Shut off gas block with twist of a knob and 170gr JSP subsonics are legitimately Hollywood quiet. The side charging handle gives a straight-pull bolt-action feel. Clip on can have a saved profile to account for subsonic zero shift.

I understand - that said the T7 and MDR are expensive and you can have a hell of an AR for that cost. Or even a 6.5CM SCAR20S.

Also, you would be moving from point A to point A and a Half with a bullpup. Not to point B.

Once you clap on all the shit needed to hunt at night or do other work....then you realize you need to point that rifle at a scanning zone for hours and hours and hours....the bullpup didn't fix the problem you are having.

What fixes it is a high end carbon fiber tripod. Field Optics at a Min and RRS at the top.

So I can have a 5.5lb traditional style rifle like a Larue Predatar with 5LB more shit...or a 9lb bullpup that doesn't shoot all that great and 5lb more shit....and I still need the tripod at the end of the day.

A good way to put it is that there are dozens of companies that do this all day long on Youtube and all of them do it the way I describe...when they for sure could have Tavor 7's.

Edited to add:

Once they make a lightweight bullpup that looks really solid like its going to be the game changer I'll stop saying what I just did. I have owned every bullpup that has ever been sold in the USA in my lifetime. None had my hopes pushed as far forward as the MDR, and none disappointed me more.

The FS2000 almost had it - if it had come with a great trigger and took pmags it would have been something for sure. The AUG is probably the one with the most pleasing build quality. The Tavor SAR was pretty good, but I felt the X95 was a step back in some ways not forward.

If Keltec had sold the IP of the RDB to Brugger and Thomet I think that one would have been the end of my pining of love.

 

[Joeymac]

I understand - that said the T7 and MDR are expensive and you can have a hell of an AR for that cost. Or even a 6.5CM SCAR20S.

Also, you would be moving from point A to point A and a Half with a bullpup. Not to point B.

Once you clap on all the shit needed to hunt at night or do other work....then you realize you need to point that rifle at a scanning zone for hours and hours and hours....the bullpup didn't fix the problem you are having.

What fixes it is a high end carbon fiber tripod. Field Optics at a Min and RRS at the top.

So I can have a 5.5lb traditional style rifle like a Larue Predatar with 5LB more shit...or a 9lb bullpup that doesn't shoot all that great and 5lb more shit....and I still need the tripod at the end of the day.

A good way to put it is that there are dozens of companies that do this all day long on Youtube and all of them do it the way I describe...when they for sure could have Tavor 7's.

Good points. I’ll guess I’ll just have to bin this guy...