Rifle Scopes TA11 vs. Elcan SpectreDR 1.5-6

[Lostin89]

All,

This is more of an educational post than anything......that being said:

Which do you prefer? Eye relief seems to be....similiar and weight while different, won't be an issue for me.

I know, have talked with, or am personal friends with SF friends and the consensus seems to be......that both are nice, and very few if any have experienced issues (though all agree that things break depending on usage and enviroment).

I was a coastie, I dont know S*** outside of shotguns, but I have a decent sized wallet. Which do you prefer and why?

 

[slothlacrosse]

If you have your heart set on one of those two, I’d opt for the Elcan because it’s a 1x/4x.

If you’re open to other ACOG’s, I’d take a look at a 4x32 with an RMR.

(stop reading if you don’t want to read about other optics)

Both of your options are rugged and have held up to rigorous use, but they’re also getting a little long in the tooth.

Five years ago, a SpecterDR and an ACOG w/ RMR were the shit and used by a lot of cool guys; however, I see a lot more LPVO’s and RDS with magnifiers being used in the field.

 

[The DFC]

I have different versions of each that you mention-the TA31 4x w/RMR up top and the 1-4x 556 Elcan but some of the principals should apply-at least for the Elcan. Both on AR-15s. Eye relief better (by a decent amount) on the Elcan-you're nutted up on the TA31 but TA11 is better of course. Glass-both pristine. Both bombproof. The Elcan has a great reticle but the lines are thick-great for man-sized targets but blocks targets/steel at distances. Nice bright red dot at 1x. ACOG has a bunch of reticles-again combat type. RMR up top breaks cheek weld to use. A big complaint with Elcan is the ARMS mount-the one I have is great and locks up tight-I did have to use some Al foil on an upper to get a better clamp but no big deal.

I agree in that these are both awesome scopes in many ways but LPVOs are taking over the world and since me and my eyes are getting older I use the 6-8x a lot more these days.

 

[wigwamitus]

I've been thru the ACOG/ELCAN decision matrix myself recently. And its a close call for me, though I was doinug 11F on ACOG side versus 4x fixed on ELCAN side.

My price for a new one will be able the same, so decision will not be based on price.

The EYE relief for the ACOG 3.5x is way better than the 4x versions, so for me it would be the ACOG 3.5x

On the reticle, the ELCAN wins as at least one of the two 4x reticles has a few hash marks on tthe horizontal cross hair and that might help when holding for wind.

I've actually already had the exact AGOC I would get, and a 4x/1x ELCAN. For some dumb reason I sold both, around 4 years ago, but now I wish I hadn't

Both of these are 1.535 center and hence match up with the 1.533 center of the Skeet as a clipon and that's what's driving my back down this road again.

At 500yds with 14.5 inch barrel and 77gr SMK (what I would be shooting under this scope) in a 10 MPH wind the drift is 20-ish inches ... and since I'd also be holding up by 40 ish inches ... that's a hail mary shot. At 400yds its a relative piece of cake.

So the decision might come down to which optic improves my chances of 1st round hit on IPSC(2/3) 12x24) steel at 500yds ??

And the hashmarks on the elcan horizonal might do it.

 

[Lostin89]

I've been down the LPVO tunnel once already and while extremely nice (I currently have a razor gen IIE and Bushnell SMRS 1-8.5 in my closet), I just never got on board and found my self finding reasons not to like it.

I'm not a cool guy anymore, some could argue I was when I was active, but those days are long gone and after this latest shoulder surgery, my body just isn't happy with me (the 100% T&P letter from the VA still looks weird in my desk).

My hands on "professional" experience outside of anything but scatter guns and Sigs is non existent, so i like to think that I approach it all with an open mind....that being said I definitely have my preferences.

I have never been behind an rds with mag before, but want to try....and I have had acogs in the best, and were for the most part....happy. The Elcan is truly the only optic that is total uncharted territory and an almost exciting vibe for a newb like me.

But what it really comes down to is cost vs return. Is the Elcan, the extra mag, and thr ability to drop to 1.5 with a very short reverse throw worth the extra coin? Though once I put an rmr on a TA11, the cost difference closes quickly.

 

[The DFC]

I loved my Elcan no doubt. With the Elcan you don't need to buy a mount either-If you didn't want to use the Trijicon one.

 

[Luke]

Given the choice between those two I would go with the Elcan. A few years back I had a Trijicon TA-11 and my buddy had an Elcan 1-4x so we took some pictures. The glass and clarity is definitely better on the Elcan than the Trijicon, and the ability to dial back the magnification was very nice.

Now in 2020, I would go with a Vortex Razor 1-6x, or 1-10x and not look back. I have the 1-6x Razor and it's by far my favorite after using everything from Aimpoints, ACOG's, USO SN6, Sig Romeo's, IOR's, etc.

Ultimately though, I would happily use either one on a fighting carbine - but the edge would go to the Elcan in this case.

 

[The DFC]

I am in the Elcan over ACOG camp as well. I've never seen the 6x one. I popped a boner when I looked through mine the first time-glass is unbelievably good.

 

[Lostin89]

Given the choice between those two I would go with the Elcan. A few years back I had a Trijicon TA-11 and my buddy had an Elcan 1-4x so we took some pictures. The glass and clarity is definitely better on the Elcan than the Trijicon, and the ability to dial back the magnification was very nice.

Now in 2020, I would go with a Vortex Razor 1-6x, or 1-10x and not look back. I have the 1-6x Razor and it's by far my favorite after using everything from Aimpoints, ACOG's, USO SN6, Sig Romeo's, IOR's, etc.

Ultimately though, I would happily use either one on a fighting carbine - but the edge would go to the Elcan in this case.

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I recognize these photos from one of the few direct comparison reviews I could find on here...though it was not the most informative because one poster was content with insulting everyone in the thread!

It sounds....at least so far, that the census is to go with the Elcan, info and opinions I am appreciative of. There is a distributor who just recently posted the 1.5-6 in fde and 7.62 for $1800 shipped, I'll probably shop around a tad more, maybe try to unload my razor or smrs, and place an order.

 

[USMC_JA]

I have a TA31D RCO, 1/4X SpectreDR and 1.5/6 SpectreDR (in addition to a Vortex 1-6x GenIIE, NF 2.5-10x42 and others). If I could only pick ONE for a general purpose 556 gas gun, it would likely be the 1/4 Elcan. The Elcan glass is simply fantastic. Stunningly good.

With LPVO's, I find myself on the ends of the spectrum and rarely using anything but max or min magnification. With its robust build, nuclear/daylight bright dot, simplicity, easy to use reticles, and speed of adjustment, the switchview Elcans are tough to beat IMO. I also find the eye relief a bit better than the ACOG. But not substantially so. The downsides are the weight and ARMS mount. But I don't take my shit on and off. As a result, the ARMS mounts have represented zero issue to me.

I like the 1.5/6 version as well. But it is significantly larger than the 1/4x version. Enough so that when I took it out of the box, I said "whoa."

That all being said, the new Vortex GenIII 1-10x may well have changed the game when it comes to LPVO's. If your application might need more magnification, I'd suggest waiting until those hit the field.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I have the Elcan (1X/4X) and love it, but also have the Razor 1-6X and love that for slightly different reasons. For a combat optic, it'd be the ELCAN; for a fun-n-gun, Razor.
I used ACOGs way back in the day, they were Impressive as hell 20+ years ago; today, not so much.

 

[Lostin89]

Thank you everyone for the advice, I'm getting a deal to good to pass on from one of the dealers here on snipershide. Will update with a personal review when it arrives.

If anyone needs an elcan, and wants a grsat deal, reach out to bad107

 

[Slapchop]

To me it seems that the Elcan would be the simple solution. You have the best of both worlds using just the one optic as opposed to having one optic on top of another. I also like the fact the the Spectre is pretty unique in the sense that there isn't really anything else (as far as I know) like it out there.

 

[MtnCreek]

@Slapchop Welcome back.

 

[Lostin89]

To me it seems that the Elcan would be the simple solution. You have the best of both worlds using just the one optic as opposed to having one optic on top of another. I also like the fact the the Spectre is pretty unique in the sense that there isn't really anything else (as far as I know) like it out there.

You know it's funny, I see the elcan as the "simple" option for me vs an lpvo. Something about press down moved forward/back, without ever blocking my fov mechanically works better than rotating the magnification on a traditional scope.

I'm sure its just me, but it just flat works better. I'm very excited to get behind the 1.5-6.

 

[The DFC]

I'm interested in your thoughts on the 6x Can as well.

 

[Lostin89]

I'm interested in your thoughts on the 6x Can as well.

When the time comes I'll write a separate review and post

 

[Slapchop]

@Slapchop Welcome back.

Thank you sir!

 

[candyx]

If I had young eyes then I would have both, with old eyes I'm pissed I can't have both. Elcan is just cool as shit as is the ACOG but old ass had to settle for the VCOG so I'm not out of the game just yet.

 

[Keel Haul]

I had the 3.5 ACOG on the Scar17 and it was adequate. I got a deal on the 1/4 Elcan and put that on the Tavor. I’m so much of a believer in the Elcan that I’m budgeting a 1.5/6 for the Scar now.

 

[Midwest Optics]

If you got the money go with the elcan.

 

[Thunderhorse]

I have done a fair amount of shooting with ACOGs, both the RCO with which I have never had an issue qualifying expert (not that that's anything terribly impressive), and the SDO. They are good scopes, and pretty tough. I personally own an Elcan though-I think the glass is better, the reticle is better (subjective), and I prefer battery illum to a piece of electrical tape over a fiber optic and an alleged tritium element that never seems to provide any actual illumination when its dark or dim. I think most are also familiar with the way the reticle being illuminated at the shooter's position and not the target location can cause visibility issues. Yeah the Elcan uses a battery, but it lasts long enough that it isn't an issue and its not finicky like an EOTech. IIRC both are prism scopes and very robustly built.

The ACOG has the advantage in weight, but it is also fixed power. I would love to shoot tables 2 and 5 with an Elcan on 1X. I will also add that the piggyback location of the RMR on an ACOG pretty much just sucks, especially when the Elcan's 1X maintains the same cheek weld, and water or debris over the illuminator of the RMR makes it unusable until it's cleaned-a reason I'm not a fan of open red dots as a whole.

The Elcan also sticks you with ARMS mounts, though they can be upgraded to the mk2 levers pretty cheaply and easily if you own a small punch. I don't see this as a huge deal because to me the purpose of a QD mount for an optic is to allow it to be removed without tools if it goes tits up; not so you can remove and re-mount it a bunch of times without losing zero. The ACOGs I've been issued all have had LaRues, which IMHO are about the same as ARMS as they work in a similar way-I prefer ADM levers which you can get for the ACOG but not the Elcan because they are built into the mount/windage/elevation adjustment.

Both have 32mm objectives which is an advantage over LPVOs. People say the Elcan is heavy at a little over 23 oz. but seem to ignore that the mount is included in that weight whereas a Razor 1-6 is 21.5 oz. without a mount-so its even heavier and can approach 30 oz. in a mount. An LPVO would have to have a 16-17 oz. weight in order to be about the same weight as the Specter with the mount-there are a few options like Kahles that do it.

Elcan has made upgrades to the Specter throughout its production-the newer ones use a more common battery and a tougher rheostat, and the switch mechanism has been improved to eliminate zero shift between 1 and 4 power. I think all they'd really need to do to update it is come out with a 1/6 or 1/8; personally on a 4x adjustable I never find myself using 2 or 3 and the lever is much faster than a mag ring on an LPVO style optic. Really for 5.56 rifles I like an Aimpoint and magnifier, but when you want the magnifier out of the way then you either have to remove it from the rifle or use a cumbersome and sometimes awkward flip or twist mount. The Specter is a much cleaner application of that idea but also with an etched reticle so its not dependent on batteries, and with a BDC reticle vs. just a dot.

Actually, I suppose Elcan's answer to the 1-8/1-10 range LPVOs is the SpecterTR 1/3/9. It's a little cheaper than the Specter DR was when it first came out, and looks like it is mounted backwards. The reticle is different but still looks pretty good. Not sure it works with NVGs, but unfortunately it does not come in tan so you can't match it to your SCAR.

 

[CustomNightVision]

Thanks for the shout out.
I only have one commercial 7.62 1.5-6x black Elcan remaining but I have a couple of Uber rare new UID SOCOM elcans left in stock FDE 1.5-6x in 5.56 and 7.62