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Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
- Thread starter jasonk
- Start date
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
This is a very interesting thread! I was kind of supprised to se no Lilja or Hart barrels included. I'm aware of these other brands and know they are all fine barrels but I always believed Lilja and Hart were up with them. Does anyone have any opinion or insight on this or am I behind the times?
This is a very interesting thread! I was kind of supprised to se no Lilja or Hart barrels included. I'm aware of these other brands and know they are all fine barrels but I always believed Lilja and Hart were up with them. Does anyone have any opinion or insight on this or am I behind the times?
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Very interesting, thanks for posting. It seems that the 6's and 6.5's are carrying the day. also makes you wonder how much practical difference there is between the various cartridge iterations of those bore sizes ...
Very interesting, thanks for posting. It seems that the 6's and 6.5's are carrying the day. also makes you wonder how much practical difference there is between the various cartridge iterations of those bore sizes ...
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badshot338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a very interesting thread! I was kind of supprised to se no Lilja or Hart barrels included. I'm aware of these other brands and know they are all fine barrels but I always believed Lilja and Hart were up with them. Does anyone have any opinion or insight on this or am I behind the times?
</div></div>
On barrels one thing I noticed is that all are cut rifled except for 1 benchmark and 3 (other)s that may not be.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badshot338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a very interesting thread! I was kind of supprised to se no Lilja or Hart barrels included. I'm aware of these other brands and know they are all fine barrels but I always believed Lilja and Hart were up with them. Does anyone have any opinion or insight on this or am I behind the times?
</div></div>
On barrels one thing I noticed is that all are cut rifled except for 1 benchmark and 3 (other)s that may not be.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
The optics also surprised me! And no .308's? That's gonna raise some arguments with the guys!
The optics also surprised me! And no .308's? That's gonna raise some arguments with the guys!
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
308's are for F/TR guys....no one else bothers to use such an antiquated round in competition...
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
I, though, am surprised to not see any 6br, 6brx, or the like on here. They've been proven time and time again for 600yds and closer...and many many people run them out to 1000yds. But, I also guess these guys are shooting from a mag and feeding the 6br can be spotty on occasion
308's are for F/TR guys....no one else bothers to use such an antiquated round in competition...
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
I, though, am surprised to not see any 6br, 6brx, or the like on here. They've been proven time and time again for 600yds and closer...and many many people run them out to 1000yds. But, I also guess these guys are shooting from a mag and feeding the 6br can be spotty on occasion
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OneShotJim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would also be informative to know which shooters were sponsored by who. </div></div>
As a general rule the guys/ladies that are sponsored by any given company are sponsored by that company because the competitor already used that given product. My point is that most people run what they run because its what they want to run not because a sponsor says so. I'm certain there are a few exceptions to this but not very often. Also, over 60% of the people that shot in this match aren't sponsored at all.
I hope this helps.
Dustin
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OneShotJim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It would also be informative to know which shooters were sponsored by who. </div></div>
As a general rule the guys/ladies that are sponsored by any given company are sponsored by that company because the competitor already used that given product. My point is that most people run what they run because its what they want to run not because a sponsor says so. I'm certain there are a few exceptions to this but not very often. Also, over 60% of the people that shot in this match aren't sponsored at all.
I hope this helps.
Dustin
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
</div></div>
I would say that earlier this year there was a much higher percentage of 6.5mm variants than show on this list. The availability of the Berger 105 Hybrid tipped the scale to 6mm towards the end of the year.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
</div></div>
I would say that earlier this year there was a much higher percentage of 6.5mm variants than show on this list. The availability of the Berger 105 Hybrid tipped the scale to 6mm towards the end of the year.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Wow, what an eye opening post. I was really expecting the .264 diameter cartridges to be more dominant than they were. The lack of NF scopes was very surprising as well.
With a new baby in the house it looks like I'll be shooting this 700 5R .308 with a Mk4 for a while longer than I'd like LOL.
Wow, what an eye opening post. I was really expecting the .264 diameter cartridges to be more dominant than they were. The lack of NF scopes was very surprising as well.
With a new baby in the house it looks like I'll be shooting this 700 5R .308 with a Mk4 for a while longer than I'd like LOL.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
I know there was a thread in the semi-auto forum, but what kind of real-world velocity does a 6mm Creedmoor push 105s to from bolt guns like those used by PRS competitors?
I know there was a thread in the semi-auto forum, but what kind of real-world velocity does a 6mm Creedmoor push 105s to from bolt guns like those used by PRS competitors?
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know there was a thread in the semi-auto forum, but what kind of real-world velocity does a 6mm Creedmoor push 105s to from bolt guns like those used by PRS competitors? </div></div>
For the PRS finale, everyone had to stay below 3150 fps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know there was a thread in the semi-auto forum, but what kind of real-world velocity does a 6mm Creedmoor push 105s to from bolt guns like those used by PRS competitors? </div></div>
For the PRS finale, everyone had to stay below 3150 fps.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
These are Tactical Precision Rifle Competitions not Highpower or Palma.
Just like Bullseye is not IDPA or IPSC.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
These are Tactical Precision Rifle Competitions not Highpower or Palma.
Just like Bullseye is not IDPA or IPSC.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
Natty, the list of names in this match come from a wide background of shooting experience, many were what you would expect in a tactical type event, Military, LEO, some started life as good old red-neck hunters. Some more are national level and State championship F-Open winners, and at least one is on the 2013 USA F-open team. Others have won national titles in NRA disciplines. There are some national shooting records held by some of the competitors, and at least one who competed in Olympic level events. Others are just plain old good shooters who love to compete and have a good time with friends. Even with the successful background some of these shooters have the most important asset in these type matches is the ability to think fast, move on your feet, process information quickly, shoot from awkward positions, and manage outside stressors that are built into the match.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
Natty, the list of names in this match come from a wide background of shooting experience, many were what you would expect in a tactical type event, Military, LEO, some started life as good old red-neck hunters. Some more are national level and State championship F-Open winners, and at least one is on the 2013 USA F-open team. Others have won national titles in NRA disciplines. There are some national shooting records held by some of the competitors, and at least one who competed in Olympic level events. Others are just plain old good shooters who love to compete and have a good time with friends. Even with the successful background some of these shooters have the most important asset in these type matches is the ability to think fast, move on your feet, process information quickly, shoot from awkward positions, and manage outside stressors that are built into the match.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
Here are a couple of video links to give you an idea of the type of shooting that takes place in the Precision Rifle Series:
2011 Lone Star Challenge
2012 NorCal Tactical Bolt Rifle Challenge
You can find more information about the Precision Rifle Series by clicking the link below:
Precision Rifle Series
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
Here are a couple of video links to give you an idea of the type of shooting that takes place in the Precision Rifle Series:
2011 Lone Star Challenge
2012 NorCal Tactical Bolt Rifle Challenge
You can find more information about the Precision Rifle Series by clicking the link below:
Precision Rifle Series
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
I would say they are the best all around rifle shooters. In these matches you have to shoot from a variety of positions, not just laying on your belly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is the gear that was used by a good sample of the best shooters in the country</div></div>
Best at what? It's not NRA highpower, since they're using rear bags. Not Palma, since using scopes and no .308's. I would expect more .223 and .308 chamberings among F-Class shooters. It's interesting information, I'm just wondering what kind of shooting these guys are the best in the country at. Forgive my ingnorance. George Gardner was the only name I recognized. </div></div>
I would say they are the best all around rifle shooters. In these matches you have to shoot from a variety of positions, not just laying on your belly.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
That's about what I was thinking/expected. Thanks for the info.
That's about what I was thinking/expected. Thanks for the info.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Here's an idea...let's all fight about stupid shit!
Rich, thanks for taking the time to put this together. I know it was a lot of work.
And to answer a question that came up...they are the best at across the spectrum marksmenship, basically, everything. To be really good at this game, one must be really good at prone, long range, benchrest, speed, positional, physical, mental, tactical, practical, etc shooting. It encompasses almost every precision rifle discipline. That's what drew me to it, that's why I love it.
Here's an idea...let's all fight about stupid shit!
Rich, thanks for taking the time to put this together. I know it was a lot of work.
And to answer a question that came up...they are the best at across the spectrum marksmenship, basically, everything. To be really good at this game, one must be really good at prone, long range, benchrest, speed, positional, physical, mental, tactical, practical, etc shooting. It encompasses almost every precision rifle discipline. That's what drew me to it, that's why I love it.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.
Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance and see what the real world uses to be competitive for match rifles.
I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.
Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance and see what the real world uses to be competitive for match rifles.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tag </div></div>
"Topic Options" at top left, click on "Add Topic To your Watched Topics".
Also, I clicked on the link in your sigline, and found this:
"The Wounded Warrior Project (WWP) receives donations to help wounded veterans but very little of that money actually goes to veterans. In <span style="font-weight: bold">2010 WWP raised over $73,000,000 but over $66,000,000 was spent on 'costs'</span> such as salaries, consulting fees and so on. That is not right! That is not why people donate to WWP and WWP needs to pay more money directly to veterans and programs that work directly to help them. In 2007 Charity Watch, a division of the American Institute of Philanthropy gave Wounded Warrior Project a 'D' grade. Doesn't look like things have improved and our veterans and the people who donate to help them deserve better!"
Add to that their antigun stance, and they've gotten my last dime. I'll do what I can on the local level.
Sorry,back to the topic now, derail over.
1911fan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: texasleftychef</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tag </div></div>
"Topic Options" at top left, click on "Add Topic To your Watched Topics".
Also, I clicked on the link in your sigline, and found this:
"The Wounded Warrior Project (WWP) receives donations to help wounded veterans but very little of that money actually goes to veterans. In <span style="font-weight: bold">2010 WWP raised over $73,000,000 but over $66,000,000 was spent on 'costs'</span> such as salaries, consulting fees and so on. That is not right! That is not why people donate to WWP and WWP needs to pay more money directly to veterans and programs that work directly to help them. In 2007 Charity Watch, a division of the American Institute of Philanthropy gave Wounded Warrior Project a 'D' grade. Doesn't look like things have improved and our veterans and the people who donate to help them deserve better!"
Add to that their antigun stance, and they've gotten my last dime. I'll do what I can on the local level.
Sorry,back to the topic now, derail over.
1911fan
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?
jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.
Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance and see what the real world uses to be competitive for match rifles. </div></div>
Good thing I have a 17" .308!
AND.... a 26" 6.5 Creedmoor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find it funny that people are surprised there aren't any .308s in the list. The .308 hasn't be competitive in this sport for about 6 years.
Let this list wake alot of people from their internet 18" .308 trance and see what the real world uses to be competitive for match rifles. </div></div>
Good thing I have a 17" .308!
AND.... a 26" 6.5 Creedmoor.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308's are for F/TR guys....no one else bothers to use such an antiquated round in competition...
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
I, though, am surprised to not see any 6br, 6brx, or the like on here. They've been proven time and time again for 600yds and closer...and many many people run them out to 1000yds. But, <span style="font-weight: bold">I also guess these guys are shooting from a mag and feeding the 6br can be spotty on occasion </span></div></div>
You answered you own question perfectly. Myself and a few others would love to get a 6br to mag feed flawlessly(we've tried). If we could get it to work I would run it in quite a few matches.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GSRswapandslow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">308's are for F/TR guys....no one else bothers to use such an antiquated round in competition...
.308 is for the fanboi's on the internet, 6mm is for guys that want to win.
I, though, am surprised to not see any 6br, 6brx, or the like on here. They've been proven time and time again for 600yds and closer...and many many people run them out to 1000yds. But, <span style="font-weight: bold">I also guess these guys are shooting from a mag and feeding the 6br can be spotty on occasion </span></div></div>
You answered you own question perfectly. Myself and a few others would love to get a 6br to mag feed flawlessly(we've tried). If we could get it to work I would run it in quite a few matches.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
I use tuned Remingtons in all my rifles except the latest which has a Timney. I like single stage triggers.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
I use tuned Remingtons in all my rifles except the latest which has a Timney. I like single stage triggers.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Thanks for this list.It has alot of good information that everyone can use. However I would not start selling all my gear because it does not match what the top competitors are using. If that 18" 308 topped with a Nightforce scope has served your purpose in the past it should still be GTG. If however,you want to be competitive for competition then I would take a hard look at this list.
Thanks for this list.It has alot of good information that everyone can use. However I would not start selling all my gear because it does not match what the top competitors are using. If that 18" 308 topped with a Nightforce scope has served your purpose in the past it should still be GTG. If however,you want to be competitive for competition then I would take a hard look at this list.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
I asked this in the other thread but I think I might get more responses here.
Can anyone tell me what barrel lengths most of the 6mm guys are using?
I asked this in the other thread but I think I might get more responses here.
Can anyone tell me what barrel lengths most of the 6mm guys are using?
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
I can't say for sure, but the 6mm shooters I've seen ran 26-28" barrels trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of it. However, matches with a speed limit it may be unnecessary to go that long, less you intend to set the barrel back a few times.
Seems to me it's like this: matches are won buy getting the most points. Most points come inside 800 yards. The 6mm rounds dominate inside 800 yards. The 6mm costs more to shoot, factoring barrel life. To be the most competitive, 6mm rounds are the way to go. Then, 6.5s coming in a close second with more barrel life, similar drift, more drop. Beyond 700 yards or so, the drift of the 6.5s is going to be less. 7mms offer best barrel life, most drop, and is going to have the LR advantage. So what you have to do is pick your poison and roll. Guys that are getting free or cheap smithing can easily pick a 6mm to get every last ounce of edge. If you don't have time to wait for smithing or quite the budget but want to be very competitive, go 6.5mm. If barrel life is your primary concern or most of your shooting is 700+, 7mm rounds are a good choice. If you want to lose, pick .308 Win. Now if you'll use the rifle for something other than competitive shooting, consider energy as well.
I can't say for sure, but the 6mm shooters I've seen ran 26-28" barrels trying to squeeze every last bit of speed out of it. However, matches with a speed limit it may be unnecessary to go that long, less you intend to set the barrel back a few times.
Seems to me it's like this: matches are won buy getting the most points. Most points come inside 800 yards. The 6mm rounds dominate inside 800 yards. The 6mm costs more to shoot, factoring barrel life. To be the most competitive, 6mm rounds are the way to go. Then, 6.5s coming in a close second with more barrel life, similar drift, more drop. Beyond 700 yards or so, the drift of the 6.5s is going to be less. 7mms offer best barrel life, most drop, and is going to have the LR advantage. So what you have to do is pick your poison and roll. Guys that are getting free or cheap smithing can easily pick a 6mm to get every last ounce of edge. If you don't have time to wait for smithing or quite the budget but want to be very competitive, go 6.5mm. If barrel life is your primary concern or most of your shooting is 700+, 7mm rounds are a good choice. If you want to lose, pick .308 Win. Now if you'll use the rifle for something other than competitive shooting, consider energy as well.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you'll use the rifle for something other than competitive shooting, consider energy as well. </div></div>If we'er talking short action non-magnums (6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 7.62mm), 7mm gives you the most energy and least drift (unless at close range); however, the edge is arguably minisclue until you exceed 1000 yds, which is where magnums are better suited anyway. All one needs to do look at the ballistic outputs from the JBM calculator to realize that 6mm and 6.5mm are no brainers for precision rifle competition shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now if you'll use the rifle for something other than competitive shooting, consider energy as well. </div></div>If we'er talking short action non-magnums (6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 7.62mm), 7mm gives you the most energy and least drift (unless at close range); however, the edge is arguably minisclue until you exceed 1000 yds, which is where magnums are better suited anyway. All one needs to do look at the ballistic outputs from the JBM calculator to realize that 6mm and 6.5mm are no brainers for precision rifle competition shooting.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
In Sweden competitive shooting has been with 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser for over a century, heck even our M240's (Swedish: Mag 58) where in 6,5x55 in Mk.I before someone decided we should go the NATO way with HK G3's with 7.62x51, and decided .308's as a unitary round was way to go (Mag 58 --> Mag 58B).
What speeds are people getting out of their handloads 6 mm? I shoot 6XC Norma factory rounds 105 Moly coated Bergers (at a dollar fifty each..) giving me speeds around 2950 fps from a 26" Krieger barrel.
This is the round that's available for sale in Sweden for target shooting, precision is sublime, price so as well.
http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Target/Norma-6XC/
In Sweden competitive shooting has been with 6,5x55 Swedish Mauser for over a century, heck even our M240's (Swedish: Mag 58) where in 6,5x55 in Mk.I before someone decided we should go the NATO way with HK G3's with 7.62x51, and decided .308's as a unitary round was way to go (Mag 58 --> Mag 58B).
What speeds are people getting out of their handloads 6 mm? I shoot 6XC Norma factory rounds 105 Moly coated Bergers (at a dollar fifty each..) giving me speeds around 2950 fps from a 26" Krieger barrel.
This is the round that's available for sale in Sweden for target shooting, precision is sublime, price so as well.
http://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Target/Norma-6XC/
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
I should take my own advice
Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
I should take my own advice
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Most who shoot .308 are not able to compete at this level to begin with. My .308 serves it purpose right now, cheap and accurate enough to compete at local matches. I know once I'm more established and income increases the 700 will be rebarreled to .260.
Most who shoot .308 are not able to compete at this level to begin with. My .308 serves it purpose right now, cheap and accurate enough to compete at local matches. I know once I'm more established and income increases the 700 will be rebarreled to .260.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I should take my own advice </span> </div></div>I took your advice <span style="font-weight: bold">ONE</span> time Pipes and trust me you dont want to do that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I should take my own advice </span> </div></div>I took your advice <span style="font-weight: bold">ONE</span> time Pipes and trust me you dont want to do that.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I should take my own advice </span> </div></div>I took your advice <span style="font-weight: bold">ONE</span> time Pipes and trust me you dont want to do that.</div></div>
I SAID 330!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scott_at_Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's be realistic, at 800 the 308 is still competitive with the right bullet:
308 - 2156 SMK @ 2900 - 6.1/2.0
308 - Berger 185 Juggernaut @ 2650 - 6.8/1.7
260 - 140 amax @ 2800 - 5.7/1.4
243 - 107 smk @ 3050 - 5.0/1.5
6x45 - 95 smk (pointed) @ 2900 - 5.4/1.8
The difference is that these guys CAN shoot the difference, while the rest of us cannot. Don't drop your 308 for something else until you are consistently in the top 20 at these matches, trust me...I've spent a lot of time and money chasing this, and the reality is that your better putting that money towards ammo, trigger time at Rifles Only/K&m/NTRP, and match experience.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I should take my own advice </span> </div></div>I took your advice <span style="font-weight: bold">ONE</span> time Pipes and trust me you dont want to do that.
</div></div> I SAID 330!!
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
What actions are the lefty's using? Other than that lucky sob Dustin Morris
What actions are the lefty's using? Other than that lucky sob Dustin Morris
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
My other one is a BAT and that's what I'd recommend. My only complaint about the BAT is that the ejector is a little weak and it doesn't throw the brass as aggressively as I'd like it to.
Yes I am lucky and every time I look at DM00001 I get a big grin that won't go away.
Dustin
My other one is a BAT and that's what I'd recommend. My only complaint about the BAT is that the ejector is a little weak and it doesn't throw the brass as aggressively as I'd like it to.
Yes I am lucky and every time I look at DM00001 I get a big grin that won't go away.
Dustin
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
I know one lefty shooting a Louisiana Precision Defiance Action.
I know one lefty shooting a Louisiana Precision Defiance Action.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>
advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>
advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbcellars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What actions are the lefty's using? Other than that lucky sob Dustin Morris
</div></div>
Defiance Rebel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bbcellars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What actions are the lefty's using? Other than that lucky sob Dustin Morris
Defiance Rebel.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>
advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND. </div></div>
I second Jim on that.
My money stays with Timney
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim See</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cazorp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">jasonk - Any insights on what triggers the cream of the crop uses, single stage, two stage, aftermarket or original by action specification etc?</div></div>
My experience in shooting with this crew has been the following: Jewell, Timney, Tuned Remingtons, Huber, other...in that order. I run Jewells in my rifles, and they've survived Rifles Only, NTRP, Lone Star Challenge, New Mexico, LTPRC and various club matches. </div></div>
advice for a new guy, stay away from the Huber unless you want an occasional ND. </div></div>
I second Jim on that.
My money stays with Timney
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Looking at the chart opened my eyes to the bushnell. Supprised the scope is in the running! I researched them online and am going to seriously Consider one on my next scope purchase.
Looking at the chart opened my eyes to the bushnell. Supprised the scope is in the running! I researched them online and am going to seriously Consider one on my next scope purchase.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions.
Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions.
Re: Tactical Shooters Equipment - What the pros use...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>Because most of the PRS guys are sport shooters who favor highly-customized rigs and the 6mm/6.5 calibers.
Their custom actions are tactical actions, not too tight to operate in the conditions found at matches. They don't (usually) shoot in the snow in cold weather.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SFree</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting, there are so few AI's, what could be the reasons? They never fail and all these custom actions are too tight to operate in anything other than perfect conditions. </div></div>Because most of the PRS guys are sport shooters who favor highly-customized rigs and the 6mm/6.5 calibers.
Their custom actions are tactical actions, not too tight to operate in the conditions found at matches. They don't (usually) shoot in the snow in cold weather.
