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Tangent 5-25 or new Schmidt 6-36
- Thread starter Gil P.
- Start date
And assembly doesn't contribute toward changing the country of origin.
And 14.9% duty on complete scopes and 16% on parts. If the US assembly scheme is keeping the cost down it's likely due to the imported parts costing a lot less than the compete scope. And to achieve that some components might be sourced domestically. Or assembly might be an extremely costly portion of the scope, I dunno other than I look through them and magically everything down range is easier to see
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Actually, turns out you can get a Leo or a mill discount for the Schmidt in Bender… Which puts it basically the same pricing as the ZCOs.
Did not know that, thanks for the heads up. Thought was stuck between a s&b 6-36 or just wait till the TT735 comes out. But ended up picking my 2nd TT from @CSTactical . Couldn’t resist. And of course as always, great service and competitive pricing too.
The last S&B I bought I quickly returned for refund due to it's fisheye effect on it's lower magnification range which gave me extreme dizziness. Glass was extremely clear on mid to high magnification though. Turrets felt great too.
Cuz it's the only one I have looked through where I could see that happening
Decided to just stick with my March scopes for high end I've yet to return one so far and never needed to use their warranty. The super affordable Sightron SVIII 5-40x56s were a real surprise for how cheap they are ($2000-$2300) for their actual performance. I'd consider them to be the closest to budget priced tier 1 level and better than the Vortex Razor Gen 3.
I have to be honest the 3 to 27 was probably one of the worst scopes I ever picked up.
The 6 to 36 is nothing like that… doesn’t have the tunneling effect of the 5 to 25 at low magnification. It seems they really are trying to get into the game with newer designs.
Tbh I really wanna see the glass in the 636 but not for 5k
I'll be honest, the glass on the 6-36x56 Vortex HD Gen3 is pretty good too. It's the other aspects of the scope that are not as nice as the S&B or TT.
I'm pretty sure that the S&B for $4500 is a better deal than the nearly $7k USD the TT 7-35... all relative, but the TT glass is probably not a Vortex killer either... it's really all the other aspects of the scope.
I'm pretty sure that the S&B for $4500 is a better deal than the nearly $7k USD the TT 7-35... all relative, but the TT glass is probably not a Vortex killer either... it's really all the other aspects of the scope.
How does the SB 636 compare to old trusty sb 525 glass wise esp on the upper ends?
You can get MIL/LEO on TT too, it ends up being much smaller difference until you start adding Horus reticle and anodizing up-charges. MAP on the “basic” config is $5800ish.
So around $1300 more expensive to what I laid out for the 6-36?... Vortex HD guys are laughing at us right now...
(I checked little over $5900 LEO/Vet for the TT.)
(I checked little over $5900 LEO/Vet for the TT.)
Its quite a step up!!
The 6-36 has incredible outer peripheral clarity/sharpness ...i will be VERY surprised if the new TT 7-35 betters it glass wise.
I have the TT 5-25 and i prefer the glass on the S&B 6-36..
I was comparing the image in the Vortex 6-36 and the S&B 6-36 yesterday, and the big difference between those two was that ANY movement of your head caused the image to warp slightly - so parallax adjustment is clearly a little more tricky. (Not sure what that is...)
That's not an issue on the on the S&B 6-36 and I'm sure it's not an issue on the TT.
@OE800 The cost was $4500 and $5900 repectively.
That's not an issue on the on the S&B 6-36 and I'm sure it's not an issue on the TT.
@OE800 The cost was $4500 and $5900 repectively.
Sorry
I can get a better discount elsewhere personally that brings them more in line with each other.
....yeah, but that's the Russian mob...Sorry
The 3-27 is one of the worst designs from Schmidt from a purely optical perspective, but it's also one of their most extreme scopes with regard to purpose. Creating a scope that is clip on friendly and usable at high magnification isn't an easy feat. If you're looking for the very best in IQ I would not steer you toward any scope that has an erector above 6x. 5x used to be the max, but with the new Vortex G3 and now the Schmidt 6-36 I think we have some impressive players in the 6x market.
I cannot state enough how good the glass on the vortex is…. It’s the DOF, parallax adjustment that is somewhat problematic. Still, it’s extremely hard to beat that scope for its price. As someone else mentioned, it’s the little things that make the Schmidt and Bender and the tangent theta That much better.
I've had them side by side and I disagree.
SVIII is a nice scope, but it is not quite in the same league as the Gen3.
ILya
Everyone's eyes are different.
Still, I've had a chance to examine a few different SVIII scopes and a few dozen Gen3 Razors, so I am reasonably confident it is not sample variation. Given the last two decades of making recommendations for people based on my observations, the way images look to me seems to be fairly similar to most. The only clear outliers I found over the years were a few people who had issues with color perception and/or struggled with eye pupil dilation.
ILya
I just saw your video on YouTube regarding the S&B 6-36 thank you for the content. Not sure if you finally found the time to do some shooting with it but how does it compare optically to the big players like ZCO and TT (am a ZCO owner)? I like their new P5FL reticle.
I have the 6-36 and I am working on a full review. I have a few intermediary updates on my website, but the full public review usually happens when I am done.
It is a very nice scope and it has not given me any problems. I do not think I am going to trade in my 5-25x56 TT just yet, but if I was starting from scratch, the new S&B would definitely be in the running.
ILya
I’d have to agree with the new Schmidt being a pretty darn good scope.
I recently attended one of Frank’s courses in Pennsylvania. we had varying weather conditions throughout the three days, and it gave me an opportunity to pretty much put the scope through its paces and see what the major advantages and disadvantages it seemed to have.
Performed very well in 100% overcast weather, beautifully in full-blown daylight with lots of sun, and even shooting at darker targets. The illumination aspect of the scope actually was very useful. I also really liked the grid2 reticle.
The Schmidt’s parallax definitely better than the Vortex, which is its cheapest competitor. Also the reticle in the Schmid is definitely more usable than the mil equivalent in the vortex.
if I could, I would replace all of my Schmidt 5–25X 56 scopes with this scope.
I would love to get my hands on the equivalent tangent Theta…
I recently attended one of Frank’s courses in Pennsylvania. we had varying weather conditions throughout the three days, and it gave me an opportunity to pretty much put the scope through its paces and see what the major advantages and disadvantages it seemed to have.
Performed very well in 100% overcast weather, beautifully in full-blown daylight with lots of sun, and even shooting at darker targets. The illumination aspect of the scope actually was very useful. I also really liked the grid2 reticle.
The Schmidt’s parallax definitely better than the Vortex, which is its cheapest competitor. Also the reticle in the Schmid is definitely more usable than the mil equivalent in the vortex.
if I could, I would replace all of my Schmidt 5–25X 56 scopes with this scope.
I would love to get my hands on the equivalent tangent Theta…
I just bought one 20 minutes ago to replace my ZCO... Im excited. 6x36
For people that have used or looked through it in real life, how busy is the grid reticle really? On paper although it looks interesting it also looks crazy and like it would cover a lot of your view.
In the future now in October 2023, i agree 100% and just ordered SB 6-36 also.. ZCO returned..
I was at Eurooptic last week to check out the SB 6-36x GR2ID and TT 5-25P with the Gen3XR. I'm no expert at evaluating optics, but I'm not exactly telling you what you don't already know
I currently have a pair of the SB 5-25x DTII+ GR2ID and another older PMII 5-25 with H2CMR so I do love SB and am fairly used to them. However, the allure of tool-less adjustment sounds perfect to me.
I have one functional hand, so as not to be too much of a pain, I just checked them at like 15x, 20x and 25x and zoomed up to over 30x on the SB... since I just use them between about 15-20x anyway.
Eurooptic has a spot outside to put the optics on a game changer bags and side by side the scopes out to 2500 yards away.
My initial impression was that they were both amazing as far as clarity, resolution, brightness, and color representation.
I would say they both looked amazing edge to edge. I give a slight edge to the TT as far as resolution and clarity is concerned. The grass on the hill and objects looked just a bit more defined with the TT. They both give you that wow, with the edge going to TT. Nothing we didn't kind of already know.
Reticles.
I do love the GR2ID, and I have no trouble spotting misses out to distance with it, but I did appreciate how the Gen3xr was a bit more open. Felt like a veil was removed, though I wish the Gen3XR had .5 mrad hashes on the main stadia. I feel like the numbers on the Gen3XR are a bit too light and not the easiest to see, but that also means they aren't obstructing the view. I do like how well the reticle is defined in the TT JTAC reticle and would be curious to see that definition in the Gen3xr. I like the GR2ID just a bit more, but I also have a lot more time behind it.
At 30 or so mag the GR2ID did feel kind of in your face, but I only go to 25x or full power to zero at 100 yards, so that's not an issue for me. Image quality did not appear to suffer at this magnification.
FOV.
I was only behind them about 15 minutes, and tried to side by side them on approximately the same mag, but I think the TT had a better FOV, and one point I was like wow, the TT has a much better FOV, but I think on paper, the TT is slightly better.
Turrets.
I absolutely love the DTII+ turrets on my 5-25x. They are the new hotness and a great experience to dial them. The MTII+ seemed slightly mushy in that one example I tried. That wouldn't stop me from getting one, as I do want one of the 39.5mrad turrets for ELR. I didn't have a 5-25 DTII+ to do a direct comparison to the MTII+, but that's how I felt. definitely soft compared to TT.
TT turrets are amazing as anyone knows that has experience with them.
I'm lucky to have EO a few hours away to look at these scopes. Their new facility is amazing, btw.
I went home to think about them and realized the TT were on sale, like SB are on sale so I decided to go back and pick up a TT 5-25 Gen3xr. I want the SB 6-36 as well, but after years of thinking about TT, I figured I'd give one a go. Hopefully I'll get to the range tomorrow and get it zeroed.
Scott
I currently have a pair of the SB 5-25x DTII+ GR2ID and another older PMII 5-25 with H2CMR so I do love SB and am fairly used to them. However, the allure of tool-less adjustment sounds perfect to me.
I have one functional hand, so as not to be too much of a pain, I just checked them at like 15x, 20x and 25x and zoomed up to over 30x on the SB... since I just use them between about 15-20x anyway.
Eurooptic has a spot outside to put the optics on a game changer bags and side by side the scopes out to 2500 yards away.
My initial impression was that they were both amazing as far as clarity, resolution, brightness, and color representation.
I would say they both looked amazing edge to edge. I give a slight edge to the TT as far as resolution and clarity is concerned. The grass on the hill and objects looked just a bit more defined with the TT. They both give you that wow, with the edge going to TT. Nothing we didn't kind of already know.
Reticles.
I do love the GR2ID, and I have no trouble spotting misses out to distance with it, but I did appreciate how the Gen3xr was a bit more open. Felt like a veil was removed, though I wish the Gen3XR had .5 mrad hashes on the main stadia. I feel like the numbers on the Gen3XR are a bit too light and not the easiest to see, but that also means they aren't obstructing the view. I do like how well the reticle is defined in the TT JTAC reticle and would be curious to see that definition in the Gen3xr. I like the GR2ID just a bit more, but I also have a lot more time behind it.
At 30 or so mag the GR2ID did feel kind of in your face, but I only go to 25x or full power to zero at 100 yards, so that's not an issue for me. Image quality did not appear to suffer at this magnification.
FOV.
I was only behind them about 15 minutes, and tried to side by side them on approximately the same mag, but I think the TT had a better FOV, and one point I was like wow, the TT has a much better FOV, but I think on paper, the TT is slightly better.
Turrets.
I absolutely love the DTII+ turrets on my 5-25x. They are the new hotness and a great experience to dial them. The MTII+ seemed slightly mushy in that one example I tried. That wouldn't stop me from getting one, as I do want one of the 39.5mrad turrets for ELR. I didn't have a 5-25 DTII+ to do a direct comparison to the MTII+, but that's how I felt. definitely soft compared to TT.
TT turrets are amazing as anyone knows that has experience with them.
I'm lucky to have EO a few hours away to look at these scopes. Their new facility is amazing, btw.
I went home to think about them and realized the TT were on sale, like SB are on sale so I decided to go back and pick up a TT 5-25 Gen3xr. I want the SB 6-36 as well, but after years of thinking about TT, I figured I'd give one a go. Hopefully I'll get to the range tomorrow and get it zeroed.
Scott
Great info, thank you. The question is if the TT is 1k better that the S&B optically speaking? I know you want the tool less zero so it might be for you.
I would say no, not $1k better. It was only $400 more than the SB? They were both on sale, and still are, I believe. I absolutely love my SB especially with the DTII+, and I felt like I was cheating lol.
$400 is still a lot of money... that's a Spuhr mount, but I wanted to try TT turrets.
It's splitting hairs comparing image quality.
Scott
TT turrets are nice, am really hoping to get my hands on a DTII+ S&B soon. I was looking at the JTAC reticle that’s why I mentioned the 1k.
ok yeah, JTAC is $4800 now? I kind of wanted JTAC, but I didn't want to spend the extra $400 for that lol. I think I'll be very happy with the Gen3xr
DTII+ turrets are amazing.
Scott
JTAC was 5k when I added it to the cart to see the sale price. I owned the 3XR when I had my tangent, I found it a bit too thin for my liking.
Last time I checked it was $150 to do the conversion. I have 2 ZCOs with NLE turrets, not converted I bought them with that option.
I think NLE is way better but if I had to complain about something it would be that it seems that NLE turrets are stiffer to dial compared to LE.
At this point, I have two of the Schmidt 6-36x56s, and two of the Zeiss S3’s. If saving cash is something on your mind, the Zeiss is a pretty good scope… especially since they can be found for $1900.
The TT are supposed to be pretty awesome scopes, but I don’t think their normal cost is worth it compared to the prices I paid for my Schmits.
Especially since I got them for around $3500 apiece from euro optic. At first, I wasn’t sure if I was going to like the gr2id reticle, but it turned out to be just as usable as any Horus style reticle (specifically the T3 or T5).
Back of the day I owned a premier heritage 5–25X56, and I loved the turrets on that scope. That said, the cost of the tangent theta scopes is generally not worth the extra cash because I haven’t noticed a significant difference in the conditions that I typically shoot.
Keeping that in mind, the S3 scope is a pretty good lower cost alternative for either the S&B or TT scopes.
The TT are supposed to be pretty awesome scopes, but I don’t think their normal cost is worth it compared to the prices I paid for my Schmits.
Especially since I got them for around $3500 apiece from euro optic. At first, I wasn’t sure if I was going to like the gr2id reticle, but it turned out to be just as usable as any Horus style reticle (specifically the T3 or T5).
Back of the day I owned a premier heritage 5–25X56, and I loved the turrets on that scope. That said, the cost of the tangent theta scopes is generally not worth the extra cash because I haven’t noticed a significant difference in the conditions that I typically shoot.
Keeping that in mind, the S3 scope is a pretty good lower cost alternative for either the S&B or TT scopes.
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I did get one done and I do prefer the NLE to locking elevation. I’ll be sending another in for the conversion this winter I think. I don’t remember exactly, but it was in the +/-$200 range.
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