Tariff effects on imported optics
- Thread starter DeathBeforeDismount
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Yes, excellent point Todd. I also happen to like Acteryx and own some of their closing. Looked at where my jacket was mfg. - Bangladesh.
Or look at Winchester. Hard to think of a more American company. Except Winchester firearms are mfg. under license by FN Herstal a Belgian company. As you point out some "American" companies are owned by or subsidiaries of foreign companies. And certainly the ownership of U.S. publicly traded companies is not restricted to U.S. citizens, just as Americans own shares of foreign companies. Fidelity, Vanguard, etc. offer funds that specifically invest in foreign companies.
I own a BMX X5 that I understand was mfg. in Spartanburg South Carolina. Your Ford F150 may have been made in Mexico. Both cars probably use imported steel and chips that came from China. So I guess my BMW is an American car and your Ford is a Mexican car.
To bring this discussion back to optics, Steiner is a German company, but many of its scopes are made in Greeley, CO.
Finally, there is some ambiguity about what "made in America" even means. my understanding is that some companies whose scopes are "made in America" may assemble their scopes in the U.S., but many of the parts may have been mfg. in China and the glass may come from a factory in Japan.
To use another example - being able to advertise your watch as a Swiss watch, made in Switzerland or having a Swiss movement generally carries a lot of prestige in the watch world. However, a watch may be advertised as being made in Switzerland even if 49% of its parts were made elsewhere, so long as the watch is assembled in Switzerland.
Bottom line, the globalization of our economy has already occurred and the manufacturing and trade relationship between the U.S. and other countries is a lot more complicated than people think.
Or look at Winchester. Hard to think of a more American company. Except Winchester firearms are mfg. under license by FN Herstal a Belgian company. As you point out some "American" companies are owned by or subsidiaries of foreign companies. And certainly the ownership of U.S. publicly traded companies is not restricted to U.S. citizens, just as Americans own shares of foreign companies. Fidelity, Vanguard, etc. offer funds that specifically invest in foreign companies.
I own a BMX X5 that I understand was mfg. in Spartanburg South Carolina. Your Ford F150 may have been made in Mexico. Both cars probably use imported steel and chips that came from China. So I guess my BMW is an American car and your Ford is a Mexican car.
To bring this discussion back to optics, Steiner is a German company, but many of its scopes are made in Greeley, CO.
Finally, there is some ambiguity about what "made in America" even means. my understanding is that some companies whose scopes are "made in America" may assemble their scopes in the U.S., but many of the parts may have been mfg. in China and the glass may come from a factory in Japan.
To use another example - being able to advertise your watch as a Swiss watch, made in Switzerland or having a Swiss movement generally carries a lot of prestige in the watch world. However, a watch may be advertised as being made in Switzerland even if 49% of its parts were made elsewhere, so long as the watch is assembled in Switzerland.
Bottom line, the globalization of our economy has already occurred and the manufacturing and trade relationship between the U.S. and other countries is a lot more complicated than people think.
A lot of the stock market fluctuation and companies talking about lay-offs is flexing to get back at Trump. Other countries, including China, impose heavy tarrifs on USA goods. No one says jack shit about that.
Anyway, so, if we are to regain our independence, we have to stick to our guns, even in tough times.
But, for right now, and trust me, I am the idiot and I first said I would be the stupidest one here, name an optic that is made soley from materials and parts in the USA. And would you buy it?
Anyway, so, if we are to regain our independence, we have to stick to our guns, even in tough times.
But, for right now, and trust me, I am the idiot and I first said I would be the stupidest one here, name an optic that is made soley from materials and parts in the USA. And would you buy it?
I remember when Sears sold Craftsman tools made here. Then these tools were made in China. But the prices didn’t go down. Last time Trump imposed tariffs prices didn’t really change much. I think it’s because the profit margins are so large the entities involved can afford to absorb the cost for the duration of the tariff. They have no choice if they do want to stay in business selling luxury items. If they raise prices to match the tariff, people won’t buy their shit. And then they won’t make a profit at all.
I'll be the first to admit I'm not an economist or an expert on tariffs. Just a regular person doing my best to try to understand what's happening and what the impact will be on the U.S.
But I don't think companies are just going to absorb the cost.
To use a real world example that's going to impact people on this forum. I probably shoot a couple of hundred rounds a week - mostly 5.56. This necessitates that I occasionally re-supply my stock of ammo. One of my favorite vendors is SGAmmo. Great selection, fair prices, fast shipping. The owner has recently sent out an email to his customers explaining that he operates on essentially a 5% profit margin and that much of the ammo he sells is imported from overseas. Tariffs are going to substantially impact the cost and availability of a lot of the ammo he sells and if the tariffs remain in effect for any appreciable length of time he is going to have to increase his prices. I take him at his word. In the past he has always had fair prices and never really tried to gouge his customers.
Just one real world example.
So while there are a number of luxury brands that have enormous profit margins (to use an example from my earlier post, luxury Swiss watches) I think most companies have much smaller profit margins and it is going to be the American consumer who foots 90+% of the cost of these tariffs. And that's only the impact tariffs have on us as consumers of foreign goods. There is also the other side of the equation, those of us who work in industries that export goods to other countries - farmers, liquor distilleries, etc.
But I don't think companies are just going to absorb the cost.
To use a real world example that's going to impact people on this forum. I probably shoot a couple of hundred rounds a week - mostly 5.56. This necessitates that I occasionally re-supply my stock of ammo. One of my favorite vendors is SGAmmo. Great selection, fair prices, fast shipping. The owner has recently sent out an email to his customers explaining that he operates on essentially a 5% profit margin and that much of the ammo he sells is imported from overseas. Tariffs are going to substantially impact the cost and availability of a lot of the ammo he sells and if the tariffs remain in effect for any appreciable length of time he is going to have to increase his prices. I take him at his word. In the past he has always had fair prices and never really tried to gouge his customers.
Just one real world example.
So while there are a number of luxury brands that have enormous profit margins (to use an example from my earlier post, luxury Swiss watches) I think most companies have much smaller profit margins and it is going to be the American consumer who foots 90+% of the cost of these tariffs. And that's only the impact tariffs have on us as consumers of foreign goods. There is also the other side of the equation, those of us who work in industries that export goods to other countries - farmers, liquor distilleries, etc.
Because we didn't tolerate Vortex's MSRP and consequent street prices increases last year, or ZCO's increases, or 30% chassis price increases since 2021, Powder prices jumping 25%, etc.?
If everyone has to raise prices, there's nowhere else to take your business. You will tolerate it, because you'll have no choice.
No, I do have a choice. I can buy American. I can wait it out. I am not required to buy what they want me to buy.
You can buy USO FDN series or the XTR Pro I guess. Even then, I'm pretty sure they're getting lenses and reticles from OEMs outside the USA. Nightforce ATACRs based out of Idaho, but using parts from Japan, I think. Same with the Razor. Not sure about Leupold, but I suspect it's a lot of the same.
Yes. I guess you didn't read my entire post 918. What does it even mean to "buy American" anymore? With scopes it frequently means assembled in the U.S. But if the parts come from outside the U.S. - like Japanese glass for example - those parts will be subject to a tariff. And even if a scope is assembled in the U.S. from parts made in the U.S., what about the materials used to mfg. those parts, like aluminum for instance? And if all the foreign made scopes start costing 20-30% more, don't you think U.S. companies will also raise their prices because they can, since we no longer have the option of buying a foreign made scope at a competitive price?
But you are right, you can always choose not to buy anything at all, although I hope you have a bunch of ammo set aside, don't shoot much, or are ok with going to the range, pointing your rifle at targets and making "pew pew" noises so you don't have to actually use any ammo.
But you are right, you can always choose not to buy anything at all, although I hope you have a bunch of ammo set aside, don't shoot much, or are ok with going to the range, pointing your rifle at targets and making "pew pew" noises so you don't have to actually use any ammo.
I did read your entire post, Hounddog. This thread is about optics not ammo. And I find it disappointing that you have to rely on a steady flow of cheap foreign shit to get by.
US made scopes often use foreign parts but not the entire optic is going to be affected by the tariff. Some of it and it is unknown to what degree because they can source these components from places other than China. Then there is what the consumer is willing to pay vs what you think they can charge. When buying luxury items consumers won’t buy if it cuts into their food/shelter/transportation priorities. So optic suppliers can raise prices just because they can, but they’ll go broke.
A large part of the optics cost is labor, calibration, machinery , design ect. The actual parts are probably a pretty small % so if they are getting taxed then its less severe than expected.
Say a $3000 MSRP scope sells for $2500 Street price.
$2000 is the wholesale cost to the distributor/retailer
Scope has $400 in parts and $600 in labor/machinery/PPE.
Assume all parts are from a country with a 36% increase, so the realistic cost increase is $144.
Assume manufactures needs 100% profit ratio so new wholesale price is $2,288
I would assume some of this cost increase is absorbed by the wholesaler but at most you should be looking at a 11% price increase. And its possible the manufacture, wholesaler/distributor and or retailer will just absorb the price entirely.
These numbers are all pulled out of my ass but give you an idea how actual tariff increases on parts made overseas but assembled in the US would work.
Say a $3000 MSRP scope sells for $2500 Street price.
$2000 is the wholesale cost to the distributor/retailer
Scope has $400 in parts and $600 in labor/machinery/PPE.
Assume all parts are from a country with a 36% increase, so the realistic cost increase is $144.
Assume manufactures needs 100% profit ratio so new wholesale price is $2,288
I would assume some of this cost increase is absorbed by the wholesaler but at most you should be looking at a 11% price increase. And its possible the manufacture, wholesaler/distributor and or retailer will just absorb the price entirely.
These numbers are all pulled out of my ass but give you an idea how actual tariff increases on parts made overseas but assembled in the US would work.
No doubt posted with your US made electronic device, powered by US made utility transformers, and US made steel tower, using US made antennas, conducting across US made conductors, and then posted on US made servers, in a US data center, backed up with US made generators, UPS systems, UPS cooling units, on and on and on.
I'm with ya man......fuck those foreign cheap shitters!
Yup,
Just got this reply from one of the companies we carry:
"The price increases will take effect immediately, applying to both our current inventory and future shipments."
We will continue to take great care of you and we implore you to CALL US TO DISCUSS PRICING AND PRODUCTS, 516-217-1000, so we can take personalized care of you and your orders. We have been stocking up on product so we can keep pricing the same.
JUST IN: Trump Announces Japanese Prime Minister is Sending Negotiators to Discuss Tariffs | The Gateway Pundit | by Jordan Conradson
In a significant diplomatic move, President Trump reveals Japan's commitment to renegotiating trade terms, emphasizing the need for fairer practices. The implications for U.S.-Japan relations and global trade dynamics are profound.
www.thegatewaypundit.com
Oh we have a choice. nobody is focing us to buy anything new. We can simply shoot the equipment we already have, and not buy anything but American made ammo. The the manufacturers and vendors will be sitting on huge piles of this stuff, and have to discount it to get it to move.
Sorry I've disappointed you 918, but I'm doing pretty well. Converted about 30% of my portfolio to cash at the top of the market because I anticipated something like this would happen with Trump tariffs. And I've got about 2 yrs. worth of ammo stockpiled.
I'm old enough that I've been through all this shit before.
And not overpaying for stuff is why I've been able to stockpile ammo and build up a pretty nice portfolio. But you do you.
I'm old enough that I've been through all this shit before.
And not overpaying for stuff is why I've been able to stockpile ammo and build up a pretty nice portfolio. But you do you.
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