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TBAC BIPOD
- Thread starter Zak Smith
- Start date
I would be in for a SH group buy on these. Can't wait to get hands on one.
We are putting them on $5000 to $10k rifles, we use $3000 scopes, and you want to use an $85 bipod
Obviously, certain people don't understand exactly what a bipod does and how it can affect the shot and quality of the round placement.
The old models no longer apply, if you are using a bipod that costs less than $100, you are a budget minded person and need to stick with budget-minded equipment.
Those who want precision for our precision rifles will easily spend more money.
These bipods are outstanding and it's easy to see where the money went.
Obviously, certain people don't understand exactly what a bipod does and how it can affect the shot and quality of the round placement.
The old models no longer apply, if you are using a bipod that costs less than $100, you are a budget minded person and need to stick with budget-minded equipment.
Those who want precision for our precision rifles will easily spend more money.
These bipods are outstanding and it's easy to see where the money went.
Two questions for Zak or anyone who has handled these:
1. Are the rubber feet soft and tacky like Atlas or hard like Harris?
2. How rigid are the legs? Is there a little play or flex when loading the bipod or are they super rigid?
1. Are the rubber feet soft and tacky like Atlas or hard like Harris?
2. How rigid are the legs? Is there a little play or flex when loading the bipod or are they super rigid?
I don't have the rubber feet, only the spikes, and I don't recall the rubber feet material, sorry.
The legs are rigid and solid, the original model had looser legs, they changed in the last two versions to be more rigid.
The latest model I have is pretty darn tight.
The legs are rigid and solid, the original model had looser legs, they changed in the last two versions to be more rigid.
The latest model I have is pretty darn tight.
Actually no. You don't need a 400-fucking-dollar bipod to shoot well. The people who sell that stuff would like you to think so though.
I wouldn't say the feet are tacky (ie, they are not "moist" rubber), but they are not super skittery either. I'd have to ask the engineers for the specific material. I think the rubber feet will be fine for most (especially if you shoot off your truck hood 
).
With regard to the legs, one of the features I really liked in the old AI bipod was the play in the system, which really removed the need for pan and other gimmicks in order to get enough ease of motion to prevent tension on the bipod while shooting, and to remove the need to heavily preload the bipod in order to get consistency, so my best answer there is that the system has "just enough" play, or to put another way, has "just enough" stiffness.
There will always be some angst with price, especially on high end products. We didn't set out to build an "almost $400 bipod." We set out to build the best bipod we could for field shooting, period. The same philosophy we have with suppressors. In order to build it right, with the right materials, keeping it lightweight and strong, and apply the coatings required to critical-part longevity, that's where it ended up.
Over a decade ago, the MSRP of an AI/PH bipod (which I am still a huge fan of, and will only stop shooting on my "legacy" AI guns as soon as the engineers build me a spigot adapter <ahem>) was just over $350. Even if this one had no advantages over that one, an extra about 12% cost would be worth it for a weight reduction of what seems like half, let alone the $USD inflation of 10+ years.
Can people get by on a Harris? Sure, we all pretty much did up until what, maybe 8 years ago? I mean except for the weird guys who shot the AI spigot, which by my counting was maybe 1 in 10 of guys shooting an old AW or AICS. The features and usability you get in our bipod is like where we were at with many-click knobs, mil turrets, and zero stops ten years ago. Lots of people said they could get by just fine with legacy Leupold or NF turrets, but those people shooting S&B turrets with 130, 0.1 mil clicks per turn and a zero stop below, could dial faster, more accurately, and make fewer mental mistakes. I'll never forget RO'ing the old Colorado Multigun Practical Rifle Team Challenge back in '06, when I heard the carbine shooter yell to his LR-shooter partner, "Go 150 clicks up and hold 2' high". I think that guy had a scope with 1/8 MOA clicks and about 4 MOA per turn.. LOL.
But in the end, we made the bipod that we wanted to shoot, and it ended up at this price point.
We can all sort-of "simulate" the experience of using a piece of equipment mentally, at least to some extent. But I'd encourage everyone to get on a gun and try the "manual of arms" of this bipod. We've put a lot of thought into it based on the movements that are most effective and efficient while actually shooting, and had an army of beta testers for the "several" versions we've made, that reads like a who's-who of practical field rifle shooting.
).With regard to the legs, one of the features I really liked in the old AI bipod was the play in the system, which really removed the need for pan and other gimmicks in order to get enough ease of motion to prevent tension on the bipod while shooting, and to remove the need to heavily preload the bipod in order to get consistency, so my best answer there is that the system has "just enough" play, or to put another way, has "just enough" stiffness.
There will always be some angst with price, especially on high end products. We didn't set out to build an "almost $400 bipod." We set out to build the best bipod we could for field shooting, period. The same philosophy we have with suppressors. In order to build it right, with the right materials, keeping it lightweight and strong, and apply the coatings required to critical-part longevity, that's where it ended up.
Over a decade ago, the MSRP of an AI/PH bipod (which I am still a huge fan of, and will only stop shooting on my "legacy" AI guns as soon as the engineers build me a spigot adapter <ahem>) was just over $350. Even if this one had no advantages over that one, an extra about 12% cost would be worth it for a weight reduction of what seems like half, let alone the $USD inflation of 10+ years.
Can people get by on a Harris? Sure, we all pretty much did up until what, maybe 8 years ago? I mean except for the weird guys who shot the AI spigot, which by my counting was maybe 1 in 10 of guys shooting an old AW or AICS. The features and usability you get in our bipod is like where we were at with many-click knobs, mil turrets, and zero stops ten years ago. Lots of people said they could get by just fine with legacy Leupold or NF turrets, but those people shooting S&B turrets with 130, 0.1 mil clicks per turn and a zero stop below, could dial faster, more accurately, and make fewer mental mistakes. I'll never forget RO'ing the old Colorado Multigun Practical Rifle Team Challenge back in '06, when I heard the carbine shooter yell to his LR-shooter partner, "Go 150 clicks up and hold 2' high". I think that guy had a scope with 1/8 MOA clicks and about 4 MOA per turn.. LOL.
But in the end, we made the bipod that we wanted to shoot, and it ended up at this price point.
We can all sort-of "simulate" the experience of using a piece of equipment mentally, at least to some extent. But I'd encourage everyone to get on a gun and try the "manual of arms" of this bipod. We've put a lot of thought into it based on the movements that are most effective and efficient while actually shooting, and had an army of beta testers for the "several" versions we've made, that reads like a who's-who of practical field rifle shooting.
Like others have said on here. If you want to get to the next level the better equipment will help you get there a lot quicker than the budget equipment. All equipment has its pros and cons and it is up to you, the end user, to make the decision on what you want and will work for you. If you don't want to spend 400 on a bipod then don't. But don't expect the others to perform as the better ones. You get what you pay for. With that said I will be getting one as soon as they available. And they guys at TBAC know how to make things work. I have used their Ultra 9 for several years with it approaching the 8000 rds count and with no complaints it has performed just as they say it would.
Cheap bipods are an issue, dont' be fooled, the Harris is normally out of square and will hinder your shooting whether you want to believe it or not. Open a Harris and check its dimensions, it's off, I guarantee it. The bipod matters.
We have proven this in class time and time again, just recently, in fact, I posted about it. We had a shooter with a Harris on a hunting rifle, he was doing everything we taught 100% correctly and still, he just could not get the groups below 1.25" in size. We simply switched his bipod to an Elite Iron and Bang, his groups' size dropped in 1/2 --- fucking 1/2 just by switching the bipod.
Yes, you can get away with just about anything, that is the dirty little secret in Precision Rifle shooting, shitty gear will get you by, especially if you don't know any better but quality gear pays for itself in the long run. In fact, I was at MHSA yesterday and we were just talking about this as certain customers will buy the same inexpensive stuff over and over and never learn the lesson. The stuff will break, it will not work as advertised but they keep coming back and to the same place because of cost.
You get what you pay for, The Harris is the lowest common denominator out there and has not changed in how many years. Sure you can shoot competition with a Harris because there is barely any real prone shots and the targets can absorb the error, but that doesn't make it right.
The TBAC is designed because the current Army Spec does not allow for a Harris style, not even an original Atlas, (See CAL) the military has looked at everything and decided they needed a change. The new specs changed everything because guys realized we have a $10k sniper rifle with a shitty $85 bipod so let's remedy this.
Bipods MATTER, I don't care you can get away with anything, hell I saw a guy show up to an F Class Match in Raton with a Pipe Wrench for a Bipod, he shot one day until he embarrassed himself beyond belief and left. Go shoot an F Class F/TR match with a Harris and you'll quickly realize why they use the bipods they do.
Bipods are physics if you want to argue physics have at it, but you are wrong the design matters. The legs, the apex, the construction matters.
We have proven this in class time and time again, just recently, in fact, I posted about it. We had a shooter with a Harris on a hunting rifle, he was doing everything we taught 100% correctly and still, he just could not get the groups below 1.25" in size. We simply switched his bipod to an Elite Iron and Bang, his groups' size dropped in 1/2 --- fucking 1/2 just by switching the bipod.
Yes, you can get away with just about anything, that is the dirty little secret in Precision Rifle shooting, shitty gear will get you by, especially if you don't know any better but quality gear pays for itself in the long run. In fact, I was at MHSA yesterday and we were just talking about this as certain customers will buy the same inexpensive stuff over and over and never learn the lesson. The stuff will break, it will not work as advertised but they keep coming back and to the same place because of cost.
You get what you pay for, The Harris is the lowest common denominator out there and has not changed in how many years. Sure you can shoot competition with a Harris because there is barely any real prone shots and the targets can absorb the error, but that doesn't make it right.
The TBAC is designed because the current Army Spec does not allow for a Harris style, not even an original Atlas, (See CAL) the military has looked at everything and decided they needed a change. The new specs changed everything because guys realized we have a $10k sniper rifle with a shitty $85 bipod so let's remedy this.
Bipods MATTER, I don't care you can get away with anything, hell I saw a guy show up to an F Class Match in Raton with a Pipe Wrench for a Bipod, he shot one day until he embarrassed himself beyond belief and left. Go shoot an F Class F/TR match with a Harris and you'll quickly realize why they use the bipods they do.
Bipods are physics if you want to argue physics have at it, but you are wrong the design matters. The legs, the apex, the construction matters.
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Update to an Arca Rail if you can. The adjustability of bipod placement is very helpful.
We start taking orders on Tuesday morning. The first ones should roll off final assembly sometime in March.
Excellent. Terrible feeling when you pull back a high dollar rifle and a Harris leg folds under.
It's not really as if there is a first order, it's just we're taking orders as they come in starting Tuesday morning . You can order from us or get one that a dealer will be ordering. We've already started production of the first batch and they should be ready sometime in March. Batches will then just keep coming out from then on...
The product data will be, but we can't (or don't) take online orders for stuff we don't have in stock. We can, however, take call in an email in orders, just please provide enough data to put the order in for you, and we'll call to get billing info when it's time
Is there any way to mount it to a swivel stud/sling mount? None of my bolt guns have picitiny rails or arca rails.
Go do that at an F Class match and not a Field Match, where targets can exploit the error value. your example falls flat. I shot a 58 the first time I went to Raton and came in second, does that mean my score would not have won on a different day. What is the point?
Yes we can do very well with a Harris, it's the lowest common denominator in a bipod, we get that.
Think about it this way, the original bipod developed has not changed in any way, not in design, not in manufacturing, in order for it to work as advertised you need a pod loc on it, and yet every other thing in Precision RIfle has changed. The better barrels, while you might not see it from the outside, barrel technology has improved. Why are you not shooting a 168gr 308, same history and pedigree as the Harris. Bullets have goteen better, new ones come out every year, if I won a match with a 175gr does that it will win me the match today? Everything has changed for the better, yet the bipod dont matter.
Why doesn't it matter, because you can't see it, or you never looked at it enough to know? Ignorance is truly bliss here, keep digging.
I would be in for a group buy. It looks like a quality piece. I am very happy with my TBAC Ultra 7 so I trust these guys have done well with this too.
The only way you can get better is to train more and to up your equipment. At some point and time you can out grow the basic equipment. To advance your skill you also need to advance your equipment. Can it be done with the basic equipment absolutely but with the better equipment, riflescope, rifle, LRF, ballistic apps., ammo, and even bipods the job can be done much easier and with better precision. If you are ok with where your are at then stay in your comfort zone. If you want to become better then don't hold yourself back. Like someone said they have improved barrels, bullets, rifles, and so on and they shoot a lot maybe just maybe they kinda know what they are talking about. But hey if you want to be closed minded about things that is your choice and right. Me I want to learn as much as I can from the people that can change adapt and over come.
Before we made this a Harris with slotted legs and after market feet was my choice out of everything out there. We wanted to make a bipod that had the features we wanted for field shooting like the Raton match. Its magic power is thats its simple and not over complicated. Being able to stay on the rifle and adjust either leg up or down with one hand is pretty handy. The cant tension staying set wherever you set it is pretty pleasing also. We try to pay attention to all the little things that add up to make a really nice overall product. Most of my field testing was with an AIX in 338LM while also testing the 338SR. It shoots smooth doesn't induce any hop adjusts easy and looks pretty good while being pretty strong for those that like to preload heavy (like myself). I cant wait to see what folks have to say come Tuesday when they get some hands on. Wish I was gonna be there to show them off a little
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Yeah, I'm not trying to get in the middle, but I'd definitely have to agree with LL on this one. If I could possibly put in different terms, I'd say that, yes, it is possible to perform at top levels with a Harris. But..., I have noticed that my threshold for performance is much broader and wider with my elite iron (my current best bipod). For example, when I shoot on frozen ground and place positive load in the Harris, I know I am going to get a bounce/hop of the bipod with recoil that does affect POI. I know I better be placing a "neutral load" on that sucker to avoid this. Whereas, with my elite iron, I lay down find target, engage. I've noticed environmental factors have less of an impact (frozen vs soft mud), odd angles in slope have less of an impact, me the shooter has less of an impact (variances in load), uneven surfaces have less of an impact, zeroing surfaces have less of an impact (concrete vs grass), ...all on POI. The performance threshold widened for me without the effort or thought, i.e. a better quality bipod helped create more uniformity in the system.
Excited to try out the new TBAC.
Just so everyone knows, we don't have plans for a group buy on bipods at this time; we are just at the product launch. A dealer is welcome to do a group buy if they want to (like many group buys are).
If you have a sling stud, I think Blackhawk and Weaver make a sling stud to Pic adapter; however, the best thing to do is to mount a proper pic rail; it will be way lower profile
I don't believe anyone is arguing that a Harris can't be made to perform. Although, typically it has be modified, compensated for, driven differently, etc. to get that performance. The point being expressed is that some of these higher end bipods are much easier to get performance and will typically do so with more consistency across a broader array of conditions.
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Hey Zak,
Do you guys have an arca clamp in the works for the bipod that mounts closer to the bipod. Seems like every time a bipod mfr makes an adaptor to existing bipod they make adaptors for adaptors for adaptors and the bipod hangs way far off the rail. Trim is good. I also want to float an idea to you, it would be a quick release for a picatinny rail without a cross slot bar. It would allow users to use their standard 1913 rails like an Arca style rail with infinite adjustment for bipod/tripod placement.
Do you guys have an arca clamp in the works for the bipod that mounts closer to the bipod. Seems like every time a bipod mfr makes an adaptor to existing bipod they make adaptors for adaptors for adaptors and the bipod hangs way far off the rail. Trim is good. I also want to float an idea to you, it would be a quick release for a picatinny rail without a cross slot bar. It would allow users to use their standard 1913 rails like an Arca style rail with infinite adjustment for bipod/tripod placement.
We have discussed some things. There is already a RRS Arca clamp that does not require an intermediate adapter, but it has a thumb screw instead of a QR lever. We have one on a demo rifle here at the show
Got my order in for one and received an email a day later. Paid, and now I'll be anxious to get it in my hands. Thanks TB. Less then a day from email to having the order back to me even though your almost all at shot. Make sure you guys buy a beer or two for the folks who missed shot and still cranking out orders.
Damn and I just bought an Atlas PSR only to find out that it’s not worth shooting with since it was under $300!
Damn my luck!
Damn my luck!
Did you actually pay or get on a list? When I asked pre-SHOT, I was told I'd be added to a preorder list.
Depending on your answer, I might need to give them a call.
The email that I was sent from TB today allowed me to pay. But I believe its still a preorder for March.
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