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Terminus Actions
- Thread starter Joel Russo
- Start date
I have a kratos lite in order and not in a huge rush but I saw some LH anti-x and it was tempting….
I hope he gets firing pin situation figured out and can push a bunch of actions out quickly to regain positive sentiment.
I hope he gets firing pin situation figured out and can push a bunch of actions out quickly to regain positive sentiment.
I was a late Feb to early March order. Shipped today.
I also had a Zeus ship today Joel has been professional and gracious throughout the delay.
My Zeus came in last week, got the barrel on and going tonight to zero and start barrel break-in before load development!
Absolutely. Not a complaint at all. Looking forward to Terminus #2.
Got 35 rounds down range with the brand new 6mm Dasher barrel. Ran AICS mag with no kit, this thing was super smooth and fed like a dream. I REALLY dig the 60 degree bolt throw.
10 rd group shot fast and sloppy off the bench, no load development, just picked a charge.
10 rd group shot fast and sloppy off the bench, no load development, just picked a charge.
Anyone have both a Zeus and an Apollo? Is the only real difference a smaller recoil lug and non-integrated pic rail? I have defiance actions and am Apollo lots. Debating between another defiance or Apollo or Zeus (non q) if the value is there for the price difference.
I just love how freaking fast and intuitive the bolt cycle is. Short, smooth throw and feeding great so far.
I don’t have both…yet. Just got my Zeus (QC) in and waiting on my Apollo Lite/TI for a hunting/NRL Hunter build.
By my thinking the Zeus QC is a no-brainier for a 223 trainer. Swap a bolt and barrel and you can go from your comp caliber to the 223 and back.
I’m fighting the urge to throw a Tangent Theta on my Zeus. The tool-less zero feature would be sweet for swapping back and forth.
My plan for now is to leave my scope zeroed for 6 Dasher barrel, swap to 223 for practice and just program the offset into my kestrel dope. Then when I go back to the Dasher barrel before a match I won’t have to re-zero ideally. We’ll see if it works out.
I hope to pick up a Apollo lite for a hunter build here soon. My Zeus is awesome I’m running 223 as a trainer and 6 and 6.5 creed for matches.
Easy barrel change and 60 throw is a winner for me.
Easy barrel change and 60 throw is a winner for me.
Supposedly “two weeks out” on my Apollo lite. I’m loving my Zeus QC, second barrel en route and scheming a couple more. Apollo will be my hunting/NRL gun.
Report back in 2 weeks. My money says you will still be waiting. Can’t tell you how many times I heard “2 weeks” or even “1 week. Waiting on bolts” before I cancelled two orders.
I may buy one off the shelf, but no way I’m waiting on Joel to deliver. Waiting isn’t an issue if the communicated timeline is remotely accurate or truthful.
Hope the best for you. My Valor is serving me well driving tacks. Got it off the shelf and had it in hand in less than a week.
I get the communication part of it, but holy fuck is there a lot of baby back bitches on this thread. As if no one knows the best action on the planet has been backordered for years now. Yet they still placed orders (probably so they could cry on this thread) just to cancel them. Some even did that multiple times supposedly. Give me a break.
I don't know about that and I haven't followed this thread the whole time but of Joel is telling people timelines and going WAY beyond those time lines by MANY MANY months (which is what happened with me, as well as a few others I know in real life), then this is what he's going to get. The amount of excuses made by the fan boys is just ridiculous.
I literally acknowledge your point in my very first sentence. I'm also not making any excuses. I don't care who does or doesn't buy his actions, or for what reason. But this thread is how old, and with how many posts, and people are still expecting instant service? At some point common sense should kick in, but for many here it appears not to be happening. Terminus aside, one may have noticed the supply issues over the last almost three years. Many companies are missing deadlines. Does anyone really think the guy is lying to keep people hanging on? OR, could it be reasonable that he is told by his suppliers a timeline, relays that to his customers, and the suppliers come up short? That is almost assuredly what is going on here. Like he's really trying to piss off the bulk of his customers. Get real. Moreover, l can probably list six or eight other companies that didn't ship my orders by the estimated deadline since the Covid debacle. That's just me personally. We all know it's happening everywhere. But I guess I need to start some threads
And yes, they are the best actions on the planet currently. Call me a fan boy or whatever. I couldn't care less. I have never even met Joel, nor am I sponsored or affiliated with Terminus in any way. I have other actions....So I'm not sure how that even factors in.
Anyway, as you guys were.
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In the last year I've had 3 Defiance actions come in and one Terminus. The Terminus wait time was half of what the Defiance wait time was. The Terminus was a little slower than what Joel expected, the Defiance were about on par with what they told me. The products are similar. The difference, and seemingly what frustrates people is not the length of time they wait, but that the wait exceeds their expectations. But that's one of the other things, we are all talking directly to the man who runs the company. And he's always been great with me, I can't imagine being your own customer service rep along with running your company. In the past 3 years, at least, who sits down and decides to build a gun and have all of the parts that day. Either you get lucky and find stuff that works, buy used, or you basically have to plan for a year out.
I agree that at this point everyone should know what they should expect.I literally acknowledge your point in my very first sentence. I'm also not making any excuses. I don't care who does or doesn't buy his actions, or for what reason. But this thread is how old, and with how many posts, and people are still expecting instant service? At some point common sense should kick in, but for many here it appears not to be happening. Terminus aside, one may have noticed the supply issues over the last almost three years. Many companies are missing deadlines. Does anyone really think the guy is lying to keep people hanging on? OR, could it be reasonable that he is told by his suppliers a timeline, relays that to his customers, and the suppliers come up short? That is almost assuredly what is going on here. Like he's really trying to piss off the bulk of his customers. Get real. Moreover, l can probably list six or eight other companies that didn't ship my orders by the estimated deadline since the Covid debacle. That's just me personally. We all know it's happening everywhere. But I guess I need to start some threads
And yes, they are the best actions on the planet currently. Call me a fan boy or whatever. I couldn't care less. I have never even met Joel, nor am I sponsored or affiliated with Terminus in any way. I have other actions....So I'm not sure how that even factors in.
Anyway, as you guys were.
I understand the frustration on both sides. Joel quoted me 12-ish weeks, I planned on 4-5 months in part due to this thread. Joel almost always answers the phone, or even text messages on weekends. The FFL accidentally threw out my set screws for my Zeus QC when it finally came and Joel overnighted me extra screws for free so I could have them for a training class. The action is awesome, I'm really glad I went this route. Ordered an action direct from Impact and it took about the same amount of time to come as the Zeus. Sold the Impact, kept the Terminus. I'm a 60 degree fan and seeing more and more of them at matches here in Colorado.
Curtis Customs had a legacy of overpromising and then not answering the phone from everything I've seen. Joel has been trying to shed that reputation ever since they split, with varying degrees of success. I don't know Curtis but my understanding is his actions are available because so many people swore them off after years of nonsense and broken promises. As others mentioned, we've seen it with companies like PVA, AI, and many others over the years. Some mostly fixed the issues and some didn't. SIG can't make caliber change kits for their modular carbines, AI can't make a 223 bolt to save their lives, blah blah blah. It's frustrating and can kill customer's trust but I don't think Terminus is there yet and I hope Joel can eventually get ahead of the demand.
I agree that the frustration comes from hearing "two more weeks" for months. It would be better to underpromise and overdeliver in my opinion. That would be a way to hedge bets and prepare customers for the long haul. At the same time, if Joel is to be believed, (he hasn't given me reason to think he's lying, maybe just naive), he's had multiple batches of firing pins he had to reject. Labor shortages, steel shortages, etc are all affects of the Commies shutting us down over this plandemic and the soft Socialism we're now living under.
If you order one, plan on 5-6 months and you might get it sooner, might get it later. I'm not a "fan-boi", but so far this is exactly what I wanted in a custom action and I have had Accuracy International, Bighorn, Impact, Lone Peaks and Tikka's. The Impact and Lone Peak are probably the best 90 degree out there. The bighorn origin is a great value but their customer service has not impressed me as of late, I had to pay $30 (with shipping) for 3 scope base screws from them. I think it's hard to run a business in normal circumstances, and much worse now. Shipping and fuel and material and labor costs are all shooting through the roof.
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my experience and why, for now, I'll be shooting Terminus actions for a while.
Curtis Customs had a legacy of overpromising and then not answering the phone from everything I've seen. Joel has been trying to shed that reputation ever since they split, with varying degrees of success. I don't know Curtis but my understanding is his actions are available because so many people swore them off after years of nonsense and broken promises. As others mentioned, we've seen it with companies like PVA, AI, and many others over the years. Some mostly fixed the issues and some didn't. SIG can't make caliber change kits for their modular carbines, AI can't make a 223 bolt to save their lives, blah blah blah. It's frustrating and can kill customer's trust but I don't think Terminus is there yet and I hope Joel can eventually get ahead of the demand.
I agree that the frustration comes from hearing "two more weeks" for months. It would be better to underpromise and overdeliver in my opinion. That would be a way to hedge bets and prepare customers for the long haul. At the same time, if Joel is to be believed, (he hasn't given me reason to think he's lying, maybe just naive), he's had multiple batches of firing pins he had to reject. Labor shortages, steel shortages, etc are all affects of the Commies shutting us down over this plandemic and the soft Socialism we're now living under.
If you order one, plan on 5-6 months and you might get it sooner, might get it later. I'm not a "fan-boi", but so far this is exactly what I wanted in a custom action and I have had Accuracy International, Bighorn, Impact, Lone Peaks and Tikka's. The Impact and Lone Peak are probably the best 90 degree out there. The bighorn origin is a great value but their customer service has not impressed me as of late, I had to pay $30 (with shipping) for 3 scope base screws from them. I think it's hard to run a business in normal circumstances, and much worse now. Shipping and fuel and material and labor costs are all shooting through the roof.
Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my experience and why, for now, I'll be shooting Terminus actions for a while.
That's a very different time line then what many others have experienced. As far as Curtis, I have yet to hear any FIRST HAND info on any issues that supposedly happened with Curtis, I'm not saying there were or weren't because I just don't know. What I do know is that some alleged issues with Curtis happened some years ago and continually gets repeated over and over without anyone being able to give a first hand account of any kind. The idea that the Valor is only available because no one wants one is ridiculous and unfair to say IMO.
My experience with Chase has been absolutely excellent as has his actions have been and I love both of my Valor actions. I have a Zeus and 2 Valor actions that I shoot with 3 different barrels interchangeably. I know things happen with business as well as anyone and I do agree as has been stated that the horse has been dead here for a while now, no need to keep beating it. At this point , everyone should know that you are rolling the dice on when you will get a part or action for Terminus regardless of any timeline you are given. If you are ok with not knowing when you will get it, then go for it. It's a very well made action and the fit and finish is fantastic and Joel is a nice guy and a good guy. If you want a QC action that will arrive when it's supposed to get a Valor. They are both great actions and I won't be getting rid of any of the 3 QC actions that I have.
My experience with Chase has been absolutely excellent as has his actions have been and I love both of my Valor actions. I have a Zeus and 2 Valor actions that I shoot with 3 different barrels interchangeably. I know things happen with business as well as anyone and I do agree as has been stated that the horse has been dead here for a while now, no need to keep beating it. At this point , everyone should know that you are rolling the dice on when you will get a part or action for Terminus regardless of any timeline you are given. If you are ok with not knowing when you will get it, then go for it. It's a very well made action and the fit and finish is fantastic and Joel is a nice guy and a good guy. If you want a QC action that will arrive when it's supposed to get a Valor. They are both great actions and I won't be getting rid of any of the 3 QC actions that I have.
I'm glad to hear the Curtis/Valor is working for people and they are coming quickly. I truly am. I like to see companies succeed, improve and do well, it just helps us and I kind of root for small businesses in the shooting community and elsewhere.
I may be wrong about the Curtis issue, I was very much bystander and really didn't look into them much until Joel and Curtis had split. I'm not trying to bring up old stuff or say it was all on Curtis. I simply don't know and don't mean to pass along bad or unverified info.
I will say I was advised by a couple local smiths that they had issues when Joel was still at Curtis getting help and that they don't get great support from either company at this point and tend to avoid them for that reason. The main complaint seems to be that stocking dealers don't get product. Obviously demand is high for the Terminus, I don't know if that is the case for the Valor. I hope both do well and pre-fits and support continue to increase because the design has a lot of upside in my opinion, especially with the QC feature and smooth 60 degree throw.
I may be wrong about the Curtis issue, I was very much bystander and really didn't look into them much until Joel and Curtis had split. I'm not trying to bring up old stuff or say it was all on Curtis. I simply don't know and don't mean to pass along bad or unverified info.
I will say I was advised by a couple local smiths that they had issues when Joel was still at Curtis getting help and that they don't get great support from either company at this point and tend to avoid them for that reason. The main complaint seems to be that stocking dealers don't get product. Obviously demand is high for the Terminus, I don't know if that is the case for the Valor. I hope both do well and pre-fits and support continue to increase because the design has a lot of upside in my opinion, especially with the QC feature and smooth 60 degree throw.
Absolutely love mine. I fully intend to only run Proof prefits unless I want an off the wall caliber.
They are good to go. Joel/Terminus runs extremely consistent and tight tolerances for headspace. You can not go wrong with one.
Is Joel/Terminus still in business?
I placed an order for a LH Zeus QC and a spare bolt 7 months ago. He used to reply but it has been dark for about a month.
I placed an order for a LH Zeus QC and a spare bolt 7 months ago. He used to reply but it has been dark for about a month.
I emailed and talked with Joel on 8/27 asking about a Zeus long action with QC option and mag bolt. He told me he had them in stock and I placed an order. He advised me it would be a few weeks for him to assemble the action. He said Basically he’s doing it all by himself and mostly on the weekends when he doesn’t have the phone ringing off the hook and he’s not answering a ton of emails.
All, I feel for the guy (Joel); I really do. I grew up in a small family business so I do understand the trials and tribulations that comes with the territory.
I will also say Joel was alway polite and respectful even when I cancelled my particular order due to a time constraint on one particular build. I got the sense he was juggling many things but he kelt his composure. He would answer the phone and respond to e-mails (at that time and sometimes faster than other times).
He has the demand from the market as do some other well known rifle parts makers. Lead times are atrocious most everywhere - barrels, stocks and don’t even ask about 7 SAUM brass. Yes, you can find parts hitting the shelves from time to time but is no the same as say 3-5 years ago.
I will also say I would buy a Terminus product if I had the opportunity. I’m very interested in an Apollo or Apollo-Lite and would have no issue running a Zeus if an opportunity presented itself. I have even considered placing an order and forgetting about it (like NFA items) and just let it show up.
Hell, I’m waiting on a barrel and a stock as we speak. Both quoted in the range of 6-12 months . I have registered for in-stock notifications on Terminus products hoping to see more flow to retailers.
I do hope it gets better. Customers and potential customers should be aware of these times; its rough. Not a good situation for Joel or his customers right now it seeems.
I will also say Joel was alway polite and respectful even when I cancelled my particular order due to a time constraint on one particular build. I got the sense he was juggling many things but he kelt his composure. He would answer the phone and respond to e-mails (at that time and sometimes faster than other times).
He has the demand from the market as do some other well known rifle parts makers. Lead times are atrocious most everywhere - barrels, stocks and don’t even ask about 7 SAUM brass. Yes, you can find parts hitting the shelves from time to time but is no the same as say 3-5 years ago.
I will also say I would buy a Terminus product if I had the opportunity. I’m very interested in an Apollo or Apollo-Lite and would have no issue running a Zeus if an opportunity presented itself. I have even considered placing an order and forgetting about it (like NFA items) and just let it show up.
Hell, I’m waiting on a barrel and a stock as we speak. Both quoted in the range of 6-12 months . I have registered for in-stock notifications on Terminus products hoping to see more flow to retailers.
I do hope it gets better. Customers and potential customers should be aware of these times; its rough. Not a good situation for Joel or his customers right now it seeems.
For the record, I have my Apollo Lite in hand. He was hoping to ship in 2 weeks, it turned out to be 3 because they were at coating a bit longer than anticipated. Looking forward to a nice build off this one.
Could you weight the action and post what it weighs? I have seen a few different numbers online but don't want to call and bother Joel as I am sure he is extremely busy.
Thanks.
It might be a few days, I don't have a food scale or anything that goes that light at home. Terminus website lists the Apollo Lite TI at 26 oz and the Zeus QC at 37.75 oz, so almost 12 oz lighter.
Just ordered one. Will see how it compares to my Defiance Deviant and LPA Fuzion. At the end of the day, I'm of the belief that a good action is a good action and really... they're all the same. The magic is in the barrel and smith's chamber job. Things like how the bolt lift feels is kinda "meh" to me. At the end of the day, I can make all of them work. Sometimes it's fun to have variety and I've never tried a 3-lug before.
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Coming from a 90 degree 2 lug bolt, I didn't like the 60 degree/ 3 lug that much but I've gotten used to them much more in all of my 3 lug actions now. It's still just a lot more fun and "nice" to run my 2 lug 90 degree stuff, but the QC ability outweighs anything like that by a ton.
It took about 3 months for my order to be filled by Joel. I ordered a Terminus Zeus with a regular and magnum bolt.
Joel was always courteous and polite. He acknowledged that there were supply issues and kept me in the loop regarding the delays.
Now that it's in my hands, I'll say that it was 100% worth the wait.
The action is as smooth or even more smooth than my AI. The barrel change is quick and easy, and I've had no issues with it. Now I'll be saving up for a long action from Joel.
Just remember, Terminus is a very small company. You can't call AI up and get the owner on the phone and talk to them about any issues that you may be having. Yes, the lead times may be long in some cases. If you are willing to wait, the action that you receive will be top notch.
