Personal opinion, the Revic is better than the Zeiss unit I used prior, and not enough difference to the Swaro to put up with weaksauce ranging and ballisitics. $1700 less than an EL range!
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The BIG 3 Bino/Rangefinders (or 4?) Swaro EL RF, Leica 3200’s , Sig 10K or Ziess?
- Thread starter verdugo60
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Check out the basewind/vector wind feature. Very fast for most hunting, and when needed, very accurate.
So I've had the 10x42 Geovid Pro's for about 48 hours after having owned/used the 10x42 EL Range TA's for about 2 years.
Some initial thoughts and findings:
I like the pro's significantly better than the 3200.coms. Maybe it's placebo, but I feel like the buttons are easier to find, I like the glass better, and they seem more comfortable to hold. The Pro app is light years better than the .com app. Not even in the same ballpark. Being able to cancel out of the information ticker for a re-range is a huge improvement that needed to happen; it makes the unit a lot more friendly to use.
Glass in the pro's clarity-wise is basically identical to my swaros from using them side by side. The swaros present the image flatter all the way to the edges and have a more neutral color palette. The pro's have more generous depth of field which keeps your eyes focused on the center of the image; it's kind of hard to explain. This also results in a "lazier" focus on the pro's vice the swaro's which is going to take some getting used to. I'd equate it to using parallax on a Schmidt vs. a ZCO.
The laser on the pro's is the shit. Significantly better than the swaro laser at 1k+. Anything I point it at inside 1500 is basically guaranteed to return. My unit seems to have an aiming point at the 3 o'clock position of the reticle right at the break in the circle. I've been able to range natural terrain (meaning rocks/cliffs/trees) offhand to 3100, and tripod-mounted to about 3575. The wheels seem to fall off at the 3600 mark. I've ranged cattle to just under a mile, about 1670. I wouldn't necessarily call that the max for live animals, I just ran out of distant cows to lase. Like someone said above, the laser seems identical to a Terrapin X. I know leica and vectronix have been in bed together for some time, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was exactly the same between the two units.
I had to pay 150 bucks for AB Elite in the pro's which I am salty about, but without actually shooting with them, all my trued dope off my kestrel is lining up within a tenth of what's being displayed off the binos out to the farthest I tested with the Kestrel which was just shy of a mile.
Bluetooth has worked great thus far. As long as the last paired device is still on, the binos will reconnect to it, meaning even if the binos time out while you're searching for targets you don't have to worry about having to re-pair a kestrel. While paired, you can obviously use the app on your phone which does give a very comprehensive display of your last range, or fill range cards in conjunction with your Kestrel, which plugs in elevation, your preset wind value, and azimuth/direction.
Swaro still has Leica beat on extra hardware and accessories. The carry bag that comes with the pro's is like someone stuffed a gym sock inside a breadbox and slapped a Leica logo on it. Not awesome. The strap attachment method is traditional buckle/loop and not at all snazzy or super-cool like the swaro one. I am also really really missing my swaro forehead rest. Also, no Leica branded soap and brush
More to follow as I get more miles on the pro's, but I really dig them so far. Hopefully those aren't famous last words.
Ok, so since you might be the most qualified expert on the matter on here by having both, I have some questions.
1. Are the Pros made in Portugal or Germany? I'm not finding it on the website and I don't recall looking when I checked out some 8x32 pros in store earlier this year. I just got two pair of portugal Leicas (2022 Geovid R, and Ultravid HD+) and the QC on both pair is pretty bad, and both are being returned for defects (debris in left barrel and either a chip or crack on an internal lens on the left barrel as well, and then bad machining on the hinge of the Ultravid HD+).
2. How is the edge to edge clarity on the Pro's compared to the EL TA's? Of the 3 pair of Leicas I have sitting here (two mentioned above plus another pair of pre 2022 Geovid R's) all three of them kind of blow compared to my Swaros (NL's, and EL's and I've spent some time with EL TA's on a tripod and found image similar to my non LRF swaros). The center of the image is great to about 60-70% but the outer 30-40% is blurry ass whereas Swarovskis are just as clean and crisp as can be all the way to the edge. I can throw my swaros on the tripod, run the cups in and just kind of float my eyes around using the whole image edge to edge and the image is just amazing. The Leicas also have a lot of image distortion when you move your eyes around doing this which the swaros don't. The edge blurriness is not distortion though, I can clearly see it when looking straight through them with the eye cups tight to my face too. The image just isn't there and I'm hoping maybe the Pros wouldn't have that issue. I didn't spend enough time with them at the store to confidently evaluate that.
1. Portugal to the best of my knowledge. Their website still states Portugal for Geovid with no addendum for the Pro. Could be different but they haven't stated it if so. Doesn't say anything on the unit itself or the box either. To the best of knowledge they still only make their premium bino in Wetzlar (Noctavid?).
2. Edge to edge is still swaro all day long. I was out shooting steel to 800ish and prairie dogs at about the 400-700 range with them this weekend, and swaros are significantly easier to glass without moving. The Leicas for sure still have barrel distortion at the edges which is apparent when you try and move your eyes to the edge of the image. Optically they just cant handle that, which is kind of mind boggling to me.
That said, scouting for prairie dogs prone behind a gun with them wasn't really bad in that regard; it's a task where you're always moving and scanning anyway, so I didn't notice it as much. When you're stationary on say a tripod or similar though and looking at one object for a long period of time, they just straight up aren't as easy to glass with as swaros. I'm going to get a set of winged eyecups like I had on my swaros and see if that makes a difference.
I will say the laser and the ballistics onboard were cash money the whole day though. Ranging prairie dogs and steel freehand from behind the gun I didn't have a missed range, bad range, or bad data a single time. Not the ultimate litmus test but it definitely gave me enough confidence to just sit behind the gun with nothing else but my binos and ammo.
I'm probably going to keep the Pro's for now because I need a good laser/good data I can count on 100% of the time and these seem to do that so far. Glass-wise they're 90% of what I'm used to with swaro and if I have to take a hit there to keep good electronic functionality so be it. I'll probably end up getting a pair of EL's or NL's in the future if I feel like there's a hole that needs filled, but I already have the pro's and an STX spotter, so I feel pretty well covered down for now.
All of this ^ is why I am staying with my NL12’s and Terrapin x for now To Garmin watch with kestrel 5700 available if needed.
Had the Swaro TA’s, Pro 32’s and Zeiss 10x42. As described all have their shortcomings.
Been my combo for the last few years, I need great glass in WY and they were great in my ‘21 AK hunt for Moose, Goat and the Devil Bear.
On wait list for some company to get it all together…
Had the Swaro TA’s, Pro 32’s and Zeiss 10x42. As described all have their shortcomings.
Been my combo for the last few years, I need great glass in WY and they were great in my ‘21 AK hunt for Moose, Goat and the Devil Bear.
On wait list for some company to get it all together…
I just got the EL TA's and I'm impressed with them thus far. Glass quality gives up absolutely nothing to my NL's and EL's. It has that same immersive view like you're in it as the NL's. The depth of field is incredible, it's even better than the NL's and EL's which are both excellent. I also love the ergos, they sit in the hand very nicely how I hold binoculars.
The swaro app certainly isn't as intuitive to use as AB, but it does work. My workaround for no wind data is going to be simple data chart which will be more than accurate enough, and far more accurate than my wind calls typically
The swaro app certainly isn't as intuitive to use as AB, but it does work. My workaround for no wind data is going to be simple data chart which will be more than accurate enough, and far more accurate than my wind calls typically
What?!? Better DOF than NL’s? Apples to apples with 10x42 for each?I just got the EL TA's and I'm impressed with them thus far. Glass quality gives up absolutely nothing to my NL's and EL's. It has that same immersive view like you're in it as the NL's. The depth of field is incredible, it's even better than the NL's and EL's which are both excellent. I also love the ergos, they sit in the hand very nicely how I hold binoculars.
The swaro app certainly isn't as intuitive to use as AB, but it does work. My workaround for no wind data is going to be simple data chart which will be more than accurate enough, and far more accurate than my wind calls typically
I just received the 10x42 EL Range TA by way of Eurooptic and I agree the app is a bit weird. But the bino is relatively fast (on par with my KILO6K) for returning information.I just got the EL TA's and I'm impressed with them thus far. Glass quality gives up absolutely nothing to my NL's and EL's. It has that same immersive view like you're in it as the NL's. The depth of field is incredible, it's even better than the NL's and EL's which are both excellent. I also love the ergos, they sit in the hand very nicely how I hold binoculars.
The swaro app certainly isn't as intuitive to use as AB, but it does work. My workaround for no wind data is going to be simple data chart which will be more than accurate enough, and far more accurate than my wind calls typically
As far as glass quality. It's pretty close my NL Pure 12x42. I haven't had time to side-by-side compare, but it's top notch.
Ergonomics of the EL Range TA are good, but I prefer the NL Pure barrels over the EL Range. I have smaller hands so the NL Pures just feel right to me.
Too bad you didn’t buy the ones I have for sale in the PX for $1k off the Europtic price, lol. Enjoy, they’re pretty awesome.
Oh, nice. Yeah, that's a pretty good deal. I probably should start check the PX, again. I kind of stopped using the PX ever since it went paid only for posting.
Yes. NL’s were 12’s.
I couldn’t tell a difference in glass between them and my NL’s. Mine were 12’s as well. I actually sold them a little bit ago because I just wasn’t using them anymore back here in FL. My EL 8.5’s go everywhere with me because I give a lot less of a shit if they get dropped in sugar sand and the EL TA’s are for everything else or a second pair.
I actually really like the ergos of them. I tend to support binos more on the sides with my thumbs point back at my face if that make since and those humps sit at the perfect spot in my palms. This lets me get better support with my arms on my torso so I typically held the NL’s the same way which defeats the purpose of the barrel ergos.
With something like these with electronics with a relatively short warranty it’s smart buying new. There have also been some issues reported with earlier ones which could have been fixed in the later production or the older ones were just used enough for issues to arise.
We just put up some demo Leica Demo Deals including a Leica Geovid 10x42 3200.COM Binoculars ( DEMO ) for only $1,749.99
I've gone around the world and back again on all of these, but will need to be purchasing within the next month.
My whole idea on which is the most ideal for my use case has changed as I consider the workflow in shooting and/or hunting.
The Leica's were my number 1 for quite some time because of AB/Kestrel integration. With the Sig's closely behind due to cost/value.
Right now I feel like the Swaro EL Range TA may be the better option.
Ultimately, unless someone tells me differently, I should be able to take my AB data and manually input that into the SWARO app. (I just messed with their app in demo mode just an hour ago, but can't see DOPE results without it being connected.) Additionally, since the EL range has on board atmospherics, it should work just fine without my phone once I have my profiles uploaded, correct?
The EL Range also has 3 profiles vs the 1 profile of the Leica.
As for the onboard atmospherics, if I have correct ballistic profiles loaded in the EL Range and onboard atmospherics what do I need a Kestrel for anyways? Wind? That's just wind at the Kestrel location anyways...
Then you have the advantage of the Tracking Assistant, which no doubt would seem to come in handy in a number of scenarios.
I think my biggest issue on the SWARO originally is that it wasn't AB, but does that really matter if I am providing most of my inputs from AB?
For my needs, if I can cut out needing to pair/carry extra devices, have tracking assistance and the best glass, I would be willing to give up AB provided I can get solutions that stay with .1 MIL or so out to about 800y.
Am I thinking incorrectly here?
I would love to hear from EL owners and how the readings have matched up with AB.
I would also love to know the beam divergence of the EL TAs which no one can seem to find.
My whole idea on which is the most ideal for my use case has changed as I consider the workflow in shooting and/or hunting.
The Leica's were my number 1 for quite some time because of AB/Kestrel integration. With the Sig's closely behind due to cost/value.
Right now I feel like the Swaro EL Range TA may be the better option.
Ultimately, unless someone tells me differently, I should be able to take my AB data and manually input that into the SWARO app. (I just messed with their app in demo mode just an hour ago, but can't see DOPE results without it being connected.) Additionally, since the EL range has on board atmospherics, it should work just fine without my phone once I have my profiles uploaded, correct?
The EL Range also has 3 profiles vs the 1 profile of the Leica.
As for the onboard atmospherics, if I have correct ballistic profiles loaded in the EL Range and onboard atmospherics what do I need a Kestrel for anyways? Wind? That's just wind at the Kestrel location anyways...
Then you have the advantage of the Tracking Assistant, which no doubt would seem to come in handy in a number of scenarios.
I think my biggest issue on the SWARO originally is that it wasn't AB, but does that really matter if I am providing most of my inputs from AB?
For my needs, if I can cut out needing to pair/carry extra devices, have tracking assistance and the best glass, I would be willing to give up AB provided I can get solutions that stay with .1 MIL or so out to about 800y.
Am I thinking incorrectly here?
I would love to hear from EL owners and how the readings have matched up with AB.
I would also love to know the beam divergence of the EL TAs which no one can seem to find.
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I own the Swarovski El Range and they will do exactly what you desire. Little bit of fiddling at home to match drop to my Kestrel before verification at the range and no surprises. Also the image may be the best in the business. The system works great BUT, I will not buy another Swarovski anything until they make an app that does not suck. I hate that I have to match each profile to a pre-selected list of Swarovski scopes. I also do not understand why I’m limited to just a few profiles on the app. I have a lot of guns and many of those are multi barrel. I understand the binos being storage limited but having so few profiles on the app is ridiculous. Also the damn front lens covers seem to get ripped off monthly just coming in and out of the case. Most of the time I grab my Vortex unit instead as the El Range is just to frustrating. Unless I’m shooting a match or hunting the Swarovski does not get used. I don’t want to be constantly juggling profiles. If they fix the app so I can use the things my outlook would change but the company does not seem interested. Nice folks in North America but Europe does not care.
Thanks for your reply on this. Based upon your personal shortcomings I think it is something I can live with. I essentially have 3 rifles that I really care about having DOPE on past 300y. From a ranging perspective it has been reliable in finding your intended target?
My EL Range TA’s have been great and the ballistics are spot on. The glass is phenomenal, it gives up nothing to my NL’s in that department. It would be nice if they had wind but I’ll trade that for the image that’s tack sharp edge to edge because I use them for more than just a LRF.
In regards to the TA, if I am standing in one location and range a first target of say 608y and a second target at 903 and then I have trouble finding my first target when I try to glass back to it, can I use the TA to guide me back to see my first target through the binoculars or is it just useful to guide me there physically?
They have been fine in finding the intended target and returning good data. Mine are are strictly for hunting and match use now. If only I could save multiple rifles in the app I could live with other nonsense. Last straw was an app update that wiped out my saved settings and is forcing a redo. I have not used them since and just defaulted to my Vortex lrf binos instead. Time is valuable and redoing setups and only getting a few saved rifles is frustrating. The apps shortcomings are a shame. Wish I could use them more often but too much fuss having to reconfigure and in the process loose proven settings for rifles that will have to be deleted.
Update: I received my Swaro EL Range 8x32 binos last night and messed around with all the settings on the binos and the app. I used my relevant AB data to load into the Swaro app and then upload into the bino, just choosing any swaro scope that had .1 MIL adjustments. I used the "expert mode" on the Swaro app to plug in my muzzle velocity and then the velocity that AB gave me at 300y. Looks like the Swaro app tweaked the factory BC just a touch after inputting that data.
I was able to go out today and use the atmospherics from the binos and input those into AB and compare data. I couldn't get a line of sight further than 1095 yards but at that distance my EL Range was giving me 13.08 MIL and AB was giving 13.1 MIL (AB doesn't show to hundredths). Obviously I am pleased with those results.
Initial impressions are good. Yes, more than 3 profiles would be nice and I already spoke to someone at Swaro about at least giving the capability to store more profiles inside the app itself and then just check to upload the 3 that you want on the binos. I was told it was a good recommendation and would be passed on. I wouldn't hold my breath though.
The menu system inside the binos is straightforward and intuitive and the glass looks great so far. Its been an overcast grey day here so hard to say much more. I couldn't detect any "tint" at all. I did pull up a set of Meopta B1s and side by side you could see that the Swaro color temperature was slightly cooler. As much as I try, I cannot detect the cooler color temp at all unless I have another set of good non-LRF binos to compare them to back to back. Typically in LRF binos it's something that is very noticeable to me right off the bat and I don't like it. I do not have that problem here at all. I will add, the weight is nice, I measured them sans all eyecups at 23.8 oz. My 8x32 non-LRF Meopta B1 Plus are 21.4 oz.
So far so good. Will post more as I spend some real time with them.
Edit: I will also add there was a post at the beginning of this thread about the EL Range not giving a firing solution past 800m. That is NOT the case in the new model I have. Not sure when the change took place but it seems that limitation has been lifted.
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