The Creedmoor Coolaid

[CJS-6.5]

So who hasn't slurped the Creedmoor coolaid?

Why did you resist the siren song of low recoil, efficient powder usage, long barrel life, incredible accuracy, long high bc bullets, solid terminal performance, easy reloading, and abundant factory ammo?

Was it disgust at seeing the long lines of crazed would be marksmen, blindly rushing forward to sacrifice their wallets to the Creedmoor marketers? Or maybe an inborn desire to be anomalous? To be the lone wolf.

Or were you already loading 260 Rem, or 6.5x47?

If you have never been spurred by the countless articles by gun writers, extolling the Creedmoor virtues, to immediately run to the the nearest store to fondle Creedmoor rifles, peek inside the ammo boxes at the shapley cartridges, and then consummating your credit card to their card reader...what cartridge are you using instead?

I admit I enjoyed my share of the coolaid.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I broke my 6.5 cherry on the x47 Lapua. I changed because x47 ammo was only available from Lapua.

Lapua ammo is great, but they don't give it away by any means. So I switched to 6.5 Creed when Lapua started making SRP brass and haven't looked back.

Ballistically, the Creed has a slight advantage. But I never felt handicapped running the x47.

 

[308220]

Never. I built a 6.5-284 Norma. And I have a 308. They do everything I need done.

 

[RFutch]

I’m a x47 user. I just wanted to be different.

 

[Rthur]

R

 

[Krazy_jim]

I still want to dive into the 6.5 world. I bought my last rifle in .308 for a good price, but ultimately wanted 6.5 creedmoor. When things stabilize in the life, will be looking at a barrel in 6.5 and run switch barrel setup.

 

[Kadams1563]

Question is WHY are you even resisting it at this point .

He’ll most people are dumping the 6.5 Creed and going to a 6mm variant.

I don’t see a point in owning anything bigger then a 6.5 unless your either doing ELR or hunting outside of North America.

 

[spife7980]

Question is WHY are you even resisting it at this point .

He’ll most people are dumping the 6.5 Creed and going to a 6mm variant.

I don’t see a point in owning anything bigger then a 6.5 unless your either doing ELR or hunting outside of North America.

Exactly, I skipped right over it and went even more "extreme" with a 6xc even though its been around for awhile now.

People piss on the better designs until you have them shooting right next to you and your calls are half of what their 308 is and youre crapping all over them.

 

[CJS-6.5]

"But the military uses the .308"

 

[spife7980]

"But the military uses the .308"

The also take every idiot out of high school as well...

 

[CJS-6.5]

The also take every idiot out of high school as well...

I don't know. There still is a lot left.

 

[spife7980]

I don't know. There still is a lot left.

 

[Sogan]

Haven’t made the switch yet but will most likely go 6 creedmoor when the time comes. Shooting .308 now still

 

[Ric O'shay]

I drink the 6.5 CM like a college freshman hitting the Bush Light at his first fraternity kegger.

 

[BurnOut]

I'm in kind of an odd position on this; I have a 6.5 CM barrel for one of my rifles, but I haven't yet fired it... and I've had it for probably 2 years. I don't have a particularly good explanation for that, other than to say that that rifle just hasn't been shot all that much.

I have been concentrating my relatively limited range time on finding loads for my hunting-oriented rifles (.204 Ruger and 338WM) along with some of my longer range stuff (300WM and 338LM AI), so I guess I just haven't gotten around to it.

 

[IHFarmer07]

Was planning on doing a remage build on the 6.5CM but the .22LR 10/22 build came up then the .224 Valkyrie as a AR variant, then I changed my mind on the Valkyrie as an ar for now so then the AR15 in .223, then all the toolage for everything and the remage Valkyrie.....kinda ran out of toy funds after that but in the time of all these my uncle and I was talking about the 6.5CM and how much power it had and so then I changed my mind on not getting the CM. Now the plan is to get a 6.5PRC instead of the 6.5CM and eventually I will get a 6mm CM remage.
Through all that, the 6.5CM just didn't get my full nod because I wanted more POWER and there was nothing else that I knew of at that time that had the power I was seeking in a factory ammo side of things in short action form, now there is!

 

[b6graham]

Started with a 308 years ago. Picked up a tikka in 6.5 Creed but that didnt last long. Then mausingfield in 6XC for a season.

Putting a 22cal on an Origin and a 7mm on a Deadline. WTO doing both barrels.

 

[spaniel]

At best, the 6.5CM has marginal benefits over similar cartridges. The only major difference is the easy availability of factory match ammo.

Not all that long ago on this same forum "everyone needs a .308". But the pre-CM 6.5s were around, beating .308 performance...so it wasn't performance driving this, it appears it's mostly the factory ammo. And marketing.

The only factory ammo I shoot is .22LR so I don't care about that factor. So I have no use for the 6.5CM, if I wanted a 6.5 I'd build a 260AI.

I'm perfectly happy shooting 243AI and 284Win on both sides of that caliber, I have no reason to add another rifle in that range.

Edited to add: I get that the 6.5CM geometry was optimized to allow for ideal seating of long, high BC bullets in a short action. But so was the RSAUM line. Yet the WSMs, which could not be maximized in a short action, won out over the RSAUMs. Why? Same reason the CM beat out the 260....Remington has a long history of introducing then not supporting its rounds. I do remember a short period on here when the 260 was the best thing since sliced bread but it was not a long fad before Remington screwed the pooch once again.

 

[CJS-6.5]

At best, the 6.5CM has marginal benefits over similar cartridges. The only major difference is the easy availability of factory match ammo. Quote. I also find myself reaching for a 6mm variant or just jumping up to 300 mag. 6mm in a light rifle still has no recoil. And if you need more then it's best to step up to the heavier braked setup anyway. I hardly ever grab a 6.5 for much. .243 truck guns and 6mm creed precision. Then for hunting a lightweight .270 pushing 145 eldx at 3050 fps is deadly. Then for extra long range the 300 mag loaded hot and heavy in a big stable platform works well.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Easy to answer. I am heavily vested in tooling for almost everything other than CM. With my current inventory of back-stocked brass, the CM (or any other round) doesn't make sense for me.

If I was just getting into LR shooting, it would be an easy decision.

 

[Bender]

CM sang the sweet siren song of low recoil and long barrel life with the same exterior ballistics as a .300WM shooting a 190.

I drank it like a fat linebacker with gatoraid after the last inning at the US open.

 

[ThePretzel]

I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor as my entry to longer range shooting because at the time I didn't have access to reloading equipment, but I still wanted to be able to comfortably go elk hunting with the rifle. Colorado requires at least .24 caliber for elk (eliminating rounds like a .22-250) and I personally would prefer something a bit larger than a .243, so Creedmoor it was.

I shot it a bunch, out to a little past a mile with success, and enjoyed it. I've since moved on to mostly shooting my newer 6BR (built once I got into PRS), but the 6.5 Creedmoor I have is still what I plan to take out every time I hunt since I know it well and trust it.

To use an analogy as others did, I drank it like a college student drinks Burnett's - had it a whole lot until I moved on to something better, but it's still the old reliable standby.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Because another day another blow job. Go ask Alice.

 

[spaniel]

CM sang the sweet siren song of low recoil and long barrel life with the same exterior ballistics as a .300WM shooting a 190.

I drank it like a fat linebacker with gatoraid after the last inning at the US open.

That's a misleading comparison. Who is going to shoot 190s and take the recoil of a 300WM if they care about trajectory? You're going to shoot 200-215 and beat the CM handily for very minor additional recoil over the 190s.

I've watched the good 300s at long range vs the smaller options and there is no comparison. I'm sorry the 6.5CM is no 300WM at long range. Not even in the same league. At 1000 yards in 10mph wind the 300WM with 215s has a 1.7MOA drift advantage...it only increases from there. My 243AI has a .5 MOA advantage over the CM.

 

[ThePretzel]

I've watched the good 300s at long range vs the smaller options and there is no comparison. I'm sorry the 6.5CM is no 300WM at long range. Not even in the same league.

It seems the hot 215gr loads are in the 2900-3000 fps range or so, with a Litz measured G7 BC of .358. My 6.5 Creedmoor load of choice is a 147gr ELD-M at 2900 fps (definitely on the ragged edge of the caliber's capability) with a Litz measured G7 BC of .315.

At 1,500 yards the difference in elevation is 2.48 MRAD (15.8 vs 13.32 )and the wind difference is 0.67 (3.11 vs 2.44 )MRAD. Definitely not in the same league as each other, though either of them pretty handily beats .308 for external ballistics.

I'm a fan of the caliber both for shooting and hunting, but it's definitely not going to beat out magnum cartridges when it comes to external and terminal ballistics. Even a 7 SAUM pushing a 180 Hybrid at 2900 fps is a fairly substantial ballistic improvement if you want to stick with a short action, or shooting the 147's faster out of a 6.5 SAUM/PRC. It's a nice balance of recoil and external/terminal ballistics though, with good availability just about anywhere now that Hornady has pushed the caliber so heavily.

 

[spaniel]

It seems the hot 215gr loads are in the 2900-3000 fps range or so, with a Litz measured G7 BC of .358. My 6.5 Creedmoor load of choice is a 147gr ELD-M at 2900 fps (definitely on the ragged edge of the caliber's capability) with a Litz measured G7 BC of .315.

At 1,500 yards the difference in elevation is 2.48 MRAD (15.8 vs 13.32 )and the wind difference is 0.67 (3.11 vs 2.44 )MRAD. Definitely not in the same league as each other, though either of them pretty handily beats .308 for external ballistics.

I'm a fan of the caliber both for shooting and hunting, but it's definitely not going to beat out magnum cartridges when it comes to external and terminal ballistics. Even a 7 SAUM pushing a 180 Hybrid at 2900 fps is a fairly substantial ballistic improvement if you want to stick with a short action, or shooting the 147's faster out of a 6.5 SAUM/PRC. It's a nice balance of recoil and external/terminal ballistics though, with good availability just about anywhere now that Hornady has pushed the caliber so heavily.

Please understand I'm not implying it's a crap round. Only that stories of its superiority to practically everything else are overblown. It's a decent mid range option with some modest advantages to other 6.5s, but not a clear winner overall, and outclassed by larger caliber, higher BC options if recoil is not the limiting factor. If you DO care about factory ammo, it becomes one of a limited number of serious contenders with some serious advantages.

 

[MarkLeupold]

I'll not hop on the Creedmoor train. I like the x47 Lapua case more and it's what I've been wanting since before the Creed was even in design.

 

[Ric O'shay]

I really envy you all that have access to real LR and ELR. I am very range challenged as my club has a max. of 200 Yards.
So I end up shooting tons of 22LR @ 50 and 100 trying to make tiny groups.
My CM is a glorified 22 as I do the same drill @200 I know this is a wanton under use of the cartridge, but it is currently what I have to work with.
The good news is the club is 15 min. from my house so I get to do it frequently. But I am on a continued quest to find something nearby to get out 600-800+
I live in the land of the deer hunter, so very few landowners want the frequent use of a target shooter on hunting lands.
That is why the 6.5 CM fits my needs well, at least until I find the promised land of LR.

 

[Bradu]

At best, the 6.5CM has marginal benefits over similar cartridges. The only major difference is the easy availability of factory match ammo.

Not all that long ago on this same forum "everyone needs a .308". But the pre-CM 6.5s were around, beating .308 performance...so it wasn't performance driving this, it appears it's mostly the factory ammo. And marketing.

The only factory ammo I shoot is .22LR so I don't care about that factor. So I have no use for the 6.5CM, if I wanted a 6.5 I'd build a 260AI.

I'm perfectly happy shooting 243AI and 284Win on both sides of that caliber, I have no reason to add another rifle in that range.

Edited to add: I get that the 6.5CM geometry was optimized to allow for ideal seating of long, high BC bullets in a short action. But so was the RSAUM line. Yet the WSMs, which could not be maximized in a short action, won out over the RSAUMs. Why? Same reason the CM beat out the 260....Remington has a long history of introducing then not supporting its rounds. I do remember a short period on here when the 260 was the best thing since sliced bread but it was not a long fad before Remington screwed the pooch once again.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I shoot 260's right now but I decided a while back that they will be an AI from now on after having a couple other ackley calibers.

 

[Ripdog28]

If manufacturers would have made the AI version (260AI) the Creedmoor would not be needed. But since no one really took an AI and made the brass until the Creedmoor, it is gaining because no fire forming is needed for the small boost it provides over previous rounds.

 

[Ledzep]

Long story short I got a .260 made before the 6.5 Creedmoor was in full swing. Tried a 6 comp match, another .260 because I had brass & dies, and a 6.5 SAUM.

This summer I broke and spun up a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. I'd say pretty much identical to the .260 performance wise, but I can get brass and good ammo most anywhere.

 

[physguy88]

Is it worth it getting the 6.5 CM when the longest range accessible to me is 700 yds? Was thinking of going .308 for the longer barrel life.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Yes, the shelf match ammo for CM is less expensive. I don't shoot CM but we had been stuck on 308 lineage for no other reason other than less need to innovate and only need one set of gauges. Now we're going down the same road with CM. Like I said, another day, another blow job.

 

[JaoeyP]

I'm not sure what gets more tiresome, the haters or the Kool Aid drinkers. It's a good option. It's not perfect. Better than some, maybe not as good as others. At some point don't we all drink a bit of Kool Aid? I drank the Kool Aid on 6.5 Creedmoor early last year and so far have experienced no ill effects as a result. Recently shot a friend's Dasher and have been considering that Kool Aid once I burn up my 7" twist 243 barrel. In fact the only recent Kool Aid I haven't cared for that I've tried recently is the Forster Co-Ax. Thankfully Brownells has a very easy return process.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

You have only four posts and you already figured out that as a group we are truly a bunch of dysfunctional Kardashians.

 

[patriot07]

Easy to answer. I am heavily vested in tooling for almost everything other than CM. With my current inventory of back-stocked brass, the CM (or any other round) doesn't make sense for me.

If I was just getting into LR shooting, it would be an easy decision.

This is my $.02 as well. As someone getting into bolt guns the last few years, 6.5 CM was such an easy decision.

But I can see that if you were already heavily invested into 260, 7-08, etc., then transitioning to a CM might result in the costs outweighing the benefits.

For the record, when I rebarrel my Tikka CTR, I'll probably go 7-08 or 7-08 AI. Love the CM, but I think the 7-08 pushes the limits a bit farther without much recoil penalty.

 

[260284]

I started with a 260 Tikka CTR and was going to go 260 AI for my next barrel. Ended up going 6.5 CM and haven't looked back. The SRP brass helped with the decision. It meets my needs for a deer/comp rifle. Going to try a 22 BR for my next match gun.

 

[Ironcreek]

On my 2nd and haven't looked back

 

[Shadow knows]

Its a round, it flys, it’s hits, they drop, I eat. Happy.

 

[supercorndogs]

I shoot my 223 and .308 way more but its OK.

 

[McCrazy]

I have a 6.5x47 so I was ok, especially before Lapua started making 6.5 CM brass. Now I have my first 6.5 CM on order but haven't taken delivery yet.

I think the 6.5mm/.260 sit at a bit of ideal nexus in the short action realm. They have better external ballistics than the .308 with less recoil. The 7-08 doesn't have the power to get the most out of the heavy 180 gr projectiles with their high BCs. They do lose a bit to the 6mm/.243 crowd as far as external ballistics and recoil but they do give significantly better barrel life which makes them a bit more manageable if you aren't wanting to re-barrel every 800-1200 rounds.

 

[Bradu]

This is my $.02 as well. As someone getting into bolt guns the last few years, 6.5 CM was such an easy decision.

But I can see that if you were already heavily invested into 260, 7-08, etc., then transitioning to a CM might result in the costs outweighing the benefits.

For the record, when I rebarrel my Tikka CTR, I'll probably go 7-08 or 7-08 AI. Love the CM, but I think the 7-08 pushes the limits a bit farther without much recoil penalty.

So what are these benefits for the creedmoor over a 260 if a person reloads?

 

[wade2big]

Is it worth it getting the 6.5 CM when the longest range accessible to me is 700 yds? Was thinking of going .308 for the longer barrel life.

There is nothing wrong with a .308 especially at 700 yds. I shoot mine more than my 6.5 creedmoor. I like them both.

 

[McCrazy]

So what are these benefits for the creedmoor over a 260 if a person reloads?

Better availability of brass from a variety of makers, better long-term availability of brass as I think the 6.5 CM will probably push the .260 to near-extinction in the long-term. Way better availability of factory loaded ammo in case you can't or don't reload or can't use your reloads. Far better selection of rifles for sale from manufacturers.

If you ask the question "what benefits does the .260 have over the 6.5 Creedmoor" I think you will hear a lot of crickets chirping.

 

[hollowoutadime]

Kool-Aid is spelled with a "K'.

Started with .260 rem, and mostly use it or 6mm BR in my AI/AT or AI/AX. Other than shooting some groups for load development, most of my shooting is on prairie dogs, where the lighter recoil of the 6mm allows a better view of the pink mist. (I know, sick bastard). Have two 6.5CM bbls that came with the guns, unfired. Will end up selling them as they're almost a duplication of the 260. Please keep drinking to keep my resale prices up when I finally unpack them from a move.

 

[Bradu]

Better availability of brass from a variety of makers, better long-term availability of brass as I think the 6.5 CM will probably push the .260 to near-extinction in the long-term. Way better availability of factory loaded ammo in case you can't or don't reload or can't use your reloads. Far better selection of rifles for sale from manufacturers.

If you ask the question "what benefits does the .260 have over the 6.5 Creedmoor" I think you will hear a lot of crickets chirping.

Near extinction...that's a good one lol

 

[XLR308]

First few deer I ever killed as a kid was with my dad's Carl Gustov custom in 6.5x55 until I bought my first rifle a 308win.
Up until this year I have never owned 6.5 anything and all along said that when Lapua brings 65 Creedmoor brass to market I'm in, the rest is history.
Regarding the 6mm variants argument I have a fresh 26" 1-8 twist 243win at the moment that seems to hold its own just fine for me, when it's toast I can see moving to 6 Creedmoor with that rifle.

 

[Longshot231]

I haven't sipped the Koolaid yet because I have bought a small collection of suppressors. Is that a good enough excuse?

However, I fondled an MPA in 6.5 CM at the gun store a while back. When I held the rifle, I asked the salesman if they had a private room where I could go spend some time with it.

I'm due some back pay for my Army retirement. When that comes in, I can get the rifle. The next priority is getting a Gen II Vortex Razor to adorn it along with about a 1000 rounds of ammunition, bullets, powder, dies.

Seriously, I was looking at getting an MPA in .338 Lapua but a friend who has both told me that the big advantage the 6.5 has over the .338 is that you can see rounds impact. Even though both of us are not bothered by recoil (i kind of like it) I have to admit that I would like to be able to shoot without needing a spotter.

I have heard that your voice gets deeper when you mention that you shoot a .338 instead of a 6.5CM. Is that true?

 

[z7.jled]

I am keeping things simple and rocking the 308. I only shoot a few club matches and I am trying to learn as much as possible. For example, I noticed a few folks locally doing free recoil or something very close, "barely touch the gun"

i tried, it, that didn't work.

so I am working to develop functional marksmanship that will work well in hunting or competition, be it a 18lb 6mm or a 8lb 30-06. I also shoot local three gun and I use a 16" carbine and a stock glock handgun - I'm not trying to be the best with the best equipment, I am trying to drive myself to be my best.

barrel life in a 308 helps,

 

[Deleted member 10043]

So what are these benefits for the creedmoor over a 260 if a person reloads?

Nothing