25 Creedmoor with Blackjack 131's, more appealing to me from a BC, recoil, and reloading point of view. Hard to beat a .67BC going 3000 fps. Might be a sweet spot???
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The Creedmoor Coolaid
- Thread starter CJS-6.5
- Start date
I was just wanting to hear an explanation lol. I went with 260 probably 7 years ago and have no intentions of switching. I sure don't see a lack of brass manufacturers for the 260 either, seems to me that all the quality brands have it so what more could a guy want.
A creedmoor is a good choice in an a semi auto rifle or if you want to shoot factory ammo. Those are the only benefits to that caliber in my opinion.
Before I finally decided to try a 65 creedmoor instead of mainly shooting 308win and 300wm I had been seriously considering going the 260AI route. My brother had one built and was a very impressive little round with impressive velocities that shot little bug hole groups, I think that was probably the final push for me.
Jim Jones was a cheap bastard. Name brand tastes better, Cheap brand leaves a bad after taste.
I've owned and shot (a lot) a .260 since 2001. Never saw the need to add another 6.5 with a nominally identical (actually somewhat smaller) case capacity. .260 brass may occasionally get scarce, but I just neck down 7-08 and go with it. Can't do something like that with the CM.
Greg
Greg
More quality brass selection. Lot of small primer options. Longer neck aides in seating different bullets and allows a longer throat to keep the long bullets above the neck/shoulder junction while still being compatible with shorter bullets as well. Longer neck helps with barrel life. Straighter walls and sharper shoulder makes for higher inherent accuracy and also helps decrease brass growth and life. Creedmoor is also slightly shorter so it has better magazine compatibility.
No way would I chose a 260 over a Creed today. 5 years ago when the only brass was the shitty Hornady, yes just because 260 had Lapua, but not today. Creedmoor is superior in every way shape and form. 260's slightly higher case capacity really doesn't even give it a benefit in any way because with the good non temperature sensitive powder you're still going to find pressure at the same point with any given bullet from either, if anything you can push the Creed more with the stronger small primer brass. If you want to run some oddball temp sensitive powders in the 260 then sure you may get somewhere, but why would a precision shooter choose to do that?
260 is dead.
You can load 2.95" oal which is more than enough room running a 260. Lapua, ADG, Norma, Peterson and Starline all make brass for the 260, what more do you want? Don't care about small rifle primers, large rifle work just fine.
I thought you were asking what the benefits are, I gave them. Can a 260 work, sure, but 6.5 Creed is still better. If you're already setup it may not be worth it to change, but if you're starting fresh there is no good reason to pick 260 over Creed and only reasons why the Creed is better.
Judging by the realative popularity of one over the other, I’d say it’s already there.
Burnt out a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel but went to 6 Dasher after that. It is a fine cartridge but I don't care about factory ammo and the 6 Dasher has less recoil and still does what I need it to do. I'll probably try 6 bra next, seems to be getting better results in BR and F Class than Dasher.
D
Deleted member 10043
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I started reloading that bullet in 25-06. 3000 MV is not a problem but I think in the CM the accuracy speed is more like 2850-2940. Also, twist rate is important. You'll need a new barrel.
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I will have to run a 708 or 708 ai through my system as well at some point as well.
Currently shoot 243. Moving to 6.5 creed for the available match ammo and a more hunting capable rifle. I only shoot a match or 2 a year. If i shot more i would stick with a 6mm. For now i will take advantage of the extra barrel life
Years ago and many barrels ago I started shooting .260 and still do. No reason for me to change. However, any new shooters that asked in the past four years, I told to go with 6.5 Creedmoor, I including my brother.
Now I am building a light hunting rifle and am going with the 6.5 Creed to follow my own advice. I’ll still be shooting the .260 as my match rifle...for now.
Now I am building a light hunting rifle and am going with the 6.5 Creed to follow my own advice. I’ll still be shooting the .260 as my match rifle...for now.
The 6.5CM has established its bona fides in every way.
Going back 5, 6. and 7 years saying we (SH Forum Members) stated everyone needs a 308 is a bit of revisionist history, which is totally in fashion right now. There is always an argument for 308 that will take a 100 years to end it if ever does end. The Army went head to head with both and the 6.5CM was the clear winner. Sure you can manipulate the stats by finding the very best combinations, but when compared head to head, the 308 is on the bottom.
When something is new there is a push, which is a bunch of marketing and hype. But then the real world results start to enter the picture and all that hype changes to the practical application experiences of its users. Once the market determines the likelihood of success you begin to see others follow suit. This comes in the form of factory rifles, factory ammo, and brass options, etc. Another thing that changes thanks to the handloaders is the spec and speeds achieved over the factory offerings which can change the game by bringing it another level up. Trying different powders and combinations often fill the holes created by the Anti Change Crowd.
Look at the cartridges that come out to very little or no fanfare which don't make it. Hype in the beginning matters in today's and yesterday's world. Remington has the 260REM which could have gone this same route but instead, it never got hyped or promoted and was out how many before the other variants. Early on with SH, we had guys trying to hype the WSSM stuff as the next greatest thing how well did that workout. The 6.5 Grendel is one for me that never quite made it and the real world applications never matched the results on paper. We saw guys try and try with Grendel and never made a dent. Now, the 6mm or .22 I feel have a better chance, but compared to the 6.5CM the Grendel barely scratches the surface.
Look at @Greg Langelius * he called the 6.5 Rise in 2000-2001, for us it was the 260REM. Leave the hunting loads Remington offered on the shelf and insert better match grade bullets and using the right long-range twist rate, we saw it's success rise. During the same time frame, the only 6.5 variant being discussed was the 6.5-284. The more people that started chasing the 260REM as we did with the Ghost Dancer Project (circa 2001) lead to the development of replacements. Less recoil, great ballistics, inexpensive to load for, people were noticing.
The 224 Valkyrie is experiencing this right now. We have one side calling it a fad and hype, and saying to leave it alone, and we have more and more data showing a lot of viability. Time will tell if the practical applications rise to the same level as the 6.5CM. But cost, barrel life and ballistic performance point to a very good cross-platform cartridge.
The only Kool-Aid I try not chasing is stuff with barrel life under 2000 rounds. That is the direction we are at because people want speed. But at what cost...
Going back 5, 6. and 7 years saying we (SH Forum Members) stated everyone needs a 308 is a bit of revisionist history, which is totally in fashion right now. There is always an argument for 308 that will take a 100 years to end it if ever does end. The Army went head to head with both and the 6.5CM was the clear winner. Sure you can manipulate the stats by finding the very best combinations, but when compared head to head, the 308 is on the bottom.
When something is new there is a push, which is a bunch of marketing and hype. But then the real world results start to enter the picture and all that hype changes to the practical application experiences of its users. Once the market determines the likelihood of success you begin to see others follow suit. This comes in the form of factory rifles, factory ammo, and brass options, etc. Another thing that changes thanks to the handloaders is the spec and speeds achieved over the factory offerings which can change the game by bringing it another level up. Trying different powders and combinations often fill the holes created by the Anti Change Crowd.
Look at the cartridges that come out to very little or no fanfare which don't make it. Hype in the beginning matters in today's and yesterday's world. Remington has the 260REM which could have gone this same route but instead, it never got hyped or promoted and was out how many before the other variants. Early on with SH, we had guys trying to hype the WSSM stuff as the next greatest thing how well did that workout. The 6.5 Grendel is one for me that never quite made it and the real world applications never matched the results on paper. We saw guys try and try with Grendel and never made a dent. Now, the 6mm or .22 I feel have a better chance, but compared to the 6.5CM the Grendel barely scratches the surface.
Look at @Greg Langelius * he called the 6.5 Rise in 2000-2001, for us it was the 260REM. Leave the hunting loads Remington offered on the shelf and insert better match grade bullets and using the right long-range twist rate, we saw it's success rise. During the same time frame, the only 6.5 variant being discussed was the 6.5-284. The more people that started chasing the 260REM as we did with the Ghost Dancer Project (circa 2001) lead to the development of replacements. Less recoil, great ballistics, inexpensive to load for, people were noticing.
The 224 Valkyrie is experiencing this right now. We have one side calling it a fad and hype, and saying to leave it alone, and we have more and more data showing a lot of viability. Time will tell if the practical applications rise to the same level as the 6.5CM. But cost, barrel life and ballistic performance point to a very good cross-platform cartridge.
The only Kool-Aid I try not chasing is stuff with barrel life under 2000 rounds. That is the direction we are at because people want speed. But at what cost...
Lack of support from Remington and the ammo manufacturers also led to the marginalization of the .260. Had it had readily available low cost match ammunition and more than a couple decent hunting choices, the extra effort to create and support the 6.5 Creedmoor may never have gained any footing. I guess that we'll never know for sure, but there is no doubt in my mind that it was a big factor.
Not new to forums, just this one. They're all kinda the same...
I've been tinkering with a fast twist 243 Win playing with 110 SMK and DTACs and I suspect the 260 fights the same challenge the 243 does- loading the long, high BC bullets any where near the lands and still fitting in a mag.
That is a stupid remark.The also take every idiot out of high school as well...
The military uses .308 and the civilian benefit is loads of inexpensive surplus ammo. That's is why I use military calibers.
The military also offers education benefits to high school graduates that otherwise would not be able to afford higher education.
Terrific life experiences as well.
My wife shoots a 6.5 CM, I keep trying to drink the coolaid and everytime I try I get a strange hair grow up my butt and I find myself buying a 224 valk... etc.
I would actually say the benefit is bullet selection. The 260 neck does not allow for the longer Bullets to be seated properly (for SA) The 260AI helps but the Creed has a better shoulder/neck for the longer Bullets if you reload. The CM also has better brass selection.
If you compare the 140g and down, no benefits.
The also take every idiot out of high school as well...
I spent 23 years of my life in the military; active duty and the reserves. Uncle Sam takes a wide cross section of society. He takes the idiots and some geniuses.
One of the reasons that I enlisted was the college benefits as well as the hopes of seeing some action, excitement and adventure. I got the college benefits but the rest of it sucked. So, I'm far from being an idiot.
I worked with people that were so stupid that they couldn't pour water out of a bucket if the instructions were written on the bottom of it. I also served with some that were extremely talented and highly intelligent. I met some people (if you could call them that) who had the morals of a rutting pig. There were others that I would trust with my life.
My father, uncles and a few of my ancestors placed themselves in harm's way so people could be free to express their opinion. And yes, even call them idiots. I spent 23 years of my life, mostly in frustration, so people like you could call me an idiot. You have that right.
I also have the right to address you in a similar manner but would withhold judgement as I would think you, as most members of this forum, would have a higher view of people in uniform. With that said, I would like to give you the benefit of doubt and think that perhaps, you may have not meant to characterize every military member past and present as an idiot.
I hope your comment was not to paint everyone who served in the US military as an idiot.
The quotation mark's were added to denote sarcasm.
I can't speak for Spife, but I didn't take his comment offensively. I took it to mean that due to many factors, some out of their control, that the military cannot always choose the best of everything. They do their best with what comes their way. I hope.
D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
Which bullets can't be used in the 260 but can be used in the 6.5CM? The brass selection comment is in the wind when you have 243 and 308 in addition.
I bought my Tikka in 2007, there was no 6.5 CM and good .308 ammo was readily available off the shelf-which mattered because I was in high school and dad wouldn't let me buy reloading equipment. Now at the ranges I shoot at 6.5 doesn't really justify the purchase of a new rifle. Maybe when its time to rebarrel. It is objectively a better round but I am never an early adopter of even objectively better cartridges for the aforementioned reason of possibly not being able to get ammo just a few years down the road.
Is OP really trying to argue barrel life of 6.5CM vs .308?
Is OP really trying to argue barrel life of 6.5CM vs .308?
D
Deleted member 10043
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Spife did not mean it like you took it but I can remember how much disdain I had on fucking Lifers. That is on me. I don't feel that way anymore because Lifers now have to pass a test once in a while.
Where did I say can’t be used? I said for proper (optimal) seating depth. Many longer VLD and the 150smk are pushes to far into the 260 case for a SA mag. Unless you single feed them, you are cutting them short of the benefits they offer.
For brass, that same 243 and 308 brass can be used for the CM. That’s a lot of time and work to turn the necks and clean up the donuts. There is no argument the CM has better or a wider variety of cartridge specific offerings.
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Deleted member 10043
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D
Deleted member 10043
Guest
OP was making the point that good barrel life was a marketing feature of the 6.5 Creedmoor. Of course it can't compare to a .308. The whole thread was designed to reveal person's characteristical tendencies towards a new, best, well marketed item. Some go for it some don't. I was trying to find out the how or why. If you read the original post carefully you will see what the OP was doing.
Why did several manufacturers start producing brass in the last year or two if it's dead? Not to mention, hornady started making ammo for it about this time last year if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah really, he mentioned several points, one of which was:
Since this is a discussion, I replied that I really don't think long barrel life is a feature of 6.5CM-not compared to the .308 I shoot now. Compared to others? Sure, I didn't say it has shitty barrel life, but I don't think it is particularly long or a point that would factor into my decision to switch.
Where did I say anything about disagreeing with this?
Next time I know to only respond to part of a post though, thanks for the sensitivity.
