Range Report The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

[Aimsmall55]

Lately I have found that the 140 amax will not shoot anywhere near like it used to. I'm talking horrible with this new stuff. So just for fun I set up a target at 120 yards.
I had five rounds from the old lot and five rounds from the new lot.
As you see the new stuff shot horrible. The old stuff was .18 MOA.
I don't know what's going on at Hornady, but I will not buy their manufactured ammunition until quality control takes a drastic turn for the better

The pictures speak for themselves.

Old lot


New lot

 

[thrusty]

Interesting... But one target with a five-shot group is hardly conclusive. Do you have any more new lot ammo to test? Maybe try cleaning your barrel, a couple foulers and then shoot another group. Did you chrony the new vs old to see if there's significant changes?

Shit does happen, and with the current difficulty locating components, it's possible Hornady had to go with a different powder to produce ammo...lots of possibilities....I wouldn't write off Hornady ammo just yet.


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[wrhunter]

Can you supply lot numbers? Was this factory Hornady loaded ammo or hand loads?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Thrusty... Its pretty conclusive considering I've talked 5 different people who are super pissed because they were used to getting good results from the factory stuff. It almost coincides with their ammunition box redesign that things started going to shit.

The lot that shot was 3122548
The new lot that shot horrible is 3132829. But I want to make it known. It's not just this one new lot. I've shot a good many of them and have some buddies with several different new lots. They ALL are shooting like shit!!

 

[Aimsmall55]

Can you supply lot numbers? Was this factory Hornady loaded ammo or hand loads?

It was manufactured ammo

 

[thrusty]

Give Hornady a call in reference to the lot number. Maybe they can provide some information or you can at least let them know you're seeing these results across multiple shooters and rifles. I use hand loads exclusively, so I can't provide any before/after data to help.

I know Hornady has replaced ammo before that users experienced unsatisfactory results.


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[TRAAV]

Personally I think it's the bullet. I use to shoot 140 Amax all the time. In the last year myself and other shooters have not been able to get them to shoot in several different rifles. Not sure what's going on but something is.

 

[wrhunter]

I have had limited but good results with Lot# 3132438. Not sure if this falls under the new or old lots.

Rounds 4-9 on new barrel.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I have had limited but good results with Lot# 3132438. Not sure if this falls under the new or old lots.

I think that would be a newer lot since the MATCH on the box is redesigned. Not bad ... What stick you shooting??

 

[wrhunter]

Its a Long Rifles Inc. group buy re-barrel with a Krieger M24 at 22". Factory ammo was going approx 2670 fps. Still working on hand loads that will match the factory performance.

 

[spr1]

Some of the new 140gr ammo with the new powder was clocking 2690 out of my 26" Crusader. I have been reading that the older stuff normally was much faster.
What did the older factory stuff average for you guys?

 

[Pusher591]

Tag, looking to hear Hornady's response. All I shoot is factory stuff so this could put a damper on my shooting.

Edit: A good idea would be to PM Rob01. I think he shoots nothing but factory 140's, see if he has seen a difference in accuracy or velocity with the new stuff.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Some of the new 140gr ammo with the new powder was clocking 2690 out of my 26" Crusader. I have been reading that the older stuff normally was much faster.
What did the older factory stuff average for you guys?

My 27" bartlein (GA Crusader)was clocking 2810 fps with the old stuff

 

[ker2222]

Tag to hear rob1 or others

 

[morganlamprecht]

Personally I think it's the bullet. I use to shoot 140 Amax all the time. In the last year myself and other shooters have not been able to get them to shoot in several different rifles. Not sure what's going on but something is.

i think this also...i purchased some 140 amax's from a guy in Indiana that he had for a while (assuming older lots) and they shot great...changing nothing except for me buying 140s from Academy is south tx, which just started stocking reloading supplies late last year (assuming newer lots) my groups opened up from .5 moa to just over 1 moa at 100 yds...i tried 3 different boxes and 2 different lot numbers in 2 different barrels...same results and i even had 1 key hole at 100 yds...same gun still shoots the 140 bthp's, 139 scenars, and 120 amax's lights out...removing the 140 amax's from the equation removed the issues

 

[30mm]

Tag

 

[Ledzep]

How new are we talking here? Last year, last several months?

I'm just curious because I have been sitting on ~2000 140 Amax's. 1,000 are the same lot bought in 2012, then another 1,000 that I'm not sure of (midway 'blemished' bullets-- not blemmed at all, but repackaged).

 

[matt2143]

I had 30 rounds of an older lot before Hornady stopped acid washing the cases after sizing (all shiny case versus the new stuff you can see the annealing on the necks). from a 23.6" I was getting great accuracy and consistency like the new stuff that I shot the same day BUT the old measured 2660 avg and the new 2740!! Needless to say I am glad it was not the other way around.

With the new stuff from my 20" I am getting 2730 avg, SD and ES seem to vary day to day. I shot a spray paint can the other day at 480 (first round on a plate to verify wind and second shot on the can with a hit) and was pretty happy with the performance.

 

[bogeybrown]

Of course THIS happens after I've started on a 6.5CM build with the plan to shoot Hornady factory ammo until I can get around to handloading.

I'd be really interested to see what y'all get back from Hornady, or if Rob01 has any insight. Having a new Spartan Rifle that can't break 1 MOA because of ammo would suck in a special way.

 

[Kjb1796]

I shot some new lot #3133078 last week I had 2 primers fall out of the case when I opened the bolt and several of the cases showed carbon around the primers in the primer pocket. The bolt lift was not stiff on any rounds. The new lot of ammo does not shoot groups as good as the older lots. I have shot three different lots of Hornady ammo in this rifle the other lots were #312---- and #310----. By far the #313 lot is not on par with the previosly produced ammo.

 

[Andy27AL]

Of course THIS happens after I've started on a 6.5CM build with the plan to shoot Hornady factory ammo until I can get around to handloading.

I'd be really interested to see what y'all get back from Hornady, or if Rob01 has any insight. Having a new Spartan Rifle that can't break 1 MOA because of ammo would suck in a special way.

I'm in the same boat as you, hopefully this is fixed before I get mine.

 

[peaceatwar]

Going to check my lot numbers and report back.

 

[Aimsmall55]

How new are we talking here? Last year, last several months?

I'm just curious because I have been sitting on ~2000 140 Amax's. 1,000 are the same lot bought in 2012, then another 1,000 that I'm not sure of (midway 'blemished' bullets-- not blemmed at all, but repackaged).

If you got them in 2012, which is when I got my "good ammo" , ( the .18 moa group pictured) I'd say your fine. It's not until the lasts few months that things have gotten sucky.
It's very strange that back when I had 3 lots bought in early 2013 and late 2012, that they shot pretty much identical out to 1,000 yards. Now with this new stuff, it's so freaking random every time you get a new box!!

 

[alexdawg]

Tag.

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

Theres a thread on 65creedmoor.com about this. Accuracy going from 3/8 MOA to close to MOA.

 

[Pusher591]

Theres a thread on 65creedmoor.com about this. Accuracy going from 3/8 MOA to close to MOA.

If you could PM or post link that would help me from having to search for it because I would like to read it.

 

[Kiwi Greg]

Nothing to do with the 140 Amax issue, but I bought a heap of Hornady 450 Bushmaster loaded ammo for the brass.

There was two different lots, same packaging, when I pulled them the powder weights between the lots there was a grain different ??

I'm not even sure it is the same powder.

Didn't shoot any of them to see if there was a difference.

The joys of factory ammo I guess ......how frustrating....

 

[bunsen27]

If you could PM or post link that would help me from having to search for it because I would like to read it.

You have to register with that forum to read anything posted on it just FYI

The 6.5 Creedmoor Forum - Portal

 

[steve123]

Last weekend a friend brought a baggy of powder he pulled from a new factory 6.5 Creed cartridge case and some H-4350 to show me the difference. They were clearly not the same size and shape of powder. The velocity was off quite a bit as well compared to his older factory ammo.

 

[ker2222]

can we get some lot numbers? I am kinda surprised no one from hornady or team hornady has chimed in…..

 

[alexdawg]

I shot the Hornady 140gr Amax yesterday out of a brand new gun. It was not bad, shot 3 groups at .6 moa at 100 yards. Every single primer was cratered and also had a couple with marks on the headstamp. I got home and broke one apart and measured it and it had 43.8 gr of something in it. It looks black instead of my H4350 powder I opened. The H4350 was more gray. I have no clue what is in the ammo. The ammo was brand new, just bought it the other day.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I shot the Hornady 140gr Amax yesterday out of a brand new gun. It was not bad, shot 3 groups at .6 moa at 100 yards. Every single primer was cratered and also had a couple with marks on the headstamp. I got home and broke one apart and measured it and it had 43.8 gr of something in it. It looks black instead of my H4350 powder I opened. The H4350 was more gray. I have no clue what is in the ammo. The ammo was brand new, just bought it the other day.

Humm... Almost looks like Reloader powder... ??
I haven't pulled any yet but I can get on QL and look at 43.8 with various powders and also look at their pictures of the granules of powder...
I don't know WTF that is in all honesty

 

[thrusty]

The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

Nice catch [MENTION=43855]Aimsmall55[/MENTION]...were you able to make contact with Hornady?


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[Aimsmall55]

Nice catch [MENTION=43855]Aimsmall55[/MENTION]...were you able to make contact with Hornady?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

I haven't. Something tells me they know. I did join 65creedmor.com and those boys are SUPER PISSED about the issue. I posted the same pics report I did in this thread and a guy from rifle workx was able to tell me that the grouping is almost identical to what he's seeing. This poor fellow was having to apologize to customers that don't handload about their rifles performance. Which is basically something he had no control over.
The whole point of the 6.5 factory 140 amax round was that IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE FACTORY ROUND AVAILABLE. And for a long time it was.
I couldn't begin to guess why it's not performing other than they are having to make due with the shortages and what not. But from a business standpoint , I see it as them sacrificing their reputation ( which means a hell of alot more in the grand scheme of things ) by putting stuff out there that they KNOW won't shoot just to keep the 6.5 rolling. It's going to bite them in the ASS

 

[ker2222]

Paging southwest......paging cooper creek....... Paging my buddies who reload

Ive been a pretty big hornady fan boy and have lots of ammo stored away......but like lots of guys i got into the creed because i dont reload. It bithers me a bit we havent heard anything...... Hoping for some kind of explination

 

[PowerstrokeOBX]

The Hornady 140 amax ammo. The OLD VS THE NEW

Nice catch [MENTION=43855]Aimsmall55[/MENTION]...were you able to make contact with Hornady?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

I haven't. Something tells me they know. I did join 65creedmor.com and those boys are SUPER PISSED about the issue. I posted the same pics report I did in this thread and a guy from rifle workx was able to tell me that the grouping is almost identical to what he's seeing. This poor fellow was having to apologize to customers that don't handload about their rifles performance. Which is basically something he had no control over.
The whole point of the 6.5 factory 140 amax round was that IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE THE MOST ACCURATE FACTORY ROUND AVAILABLE. And for a long time it was.
I couldn't begin to guess why it's not performing other than they are having to make due with the shortages and what not. But from a business standpoint , I see it as them sacrificing their reputation ( which means a hell of alot more in the grand scheme of things ) by putting stuff out there that they KNOW won't shoot just to keep the 6.5 rolling. It's going to bite them in the ASS

Rifleworx built my 6.5 creedmoor. He said he called Hornady and they won't confirm or deny they changed powders.

You can drop him an email. I believe he has lot numbers on some of the stuff. Rifleworx at yahoo.com

 

[Spock]

tag for Hornady reply

 

[LMICHAEL]

Just built 3 6.5 creedmoor's. The original ammo I bought last year was awesome. This stuff, not so much. Kinda sucks cause I built them for my family that dosent reload. Guess im going to be reloading for all three guns now until they fix the issue.

 

[LMICHAEL]

Talked with a buddy and ran some #s in quickload. Looks like its hybrid 100v or possibly reloader 17. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Aimsmall55]

Talked with a buddy and ran some #s in quickload. Looks like its hybrid 100v or possibly reloader 17. Can anyone confirm this?

43.8 with Reloader 17 would be wayyyy to hot. Maybe 100 v

 

[earthquake]

Tag. I've still got a bunch, not sure lot # (I'm outta state currently), but was planning on using it for the SHC this year if I can't get my first reloads done in time. :/

 

[Aimsmall55]

Guys I think I know what it is!! RELOADER 19. 43.8 from a 22" bbl shows exactly the same mv that wrhunter had with psi at 53,759 which almost perfectly matches Hornadys standard pressure.
If you guys can report on here what the temps were and bbl length with mv we can determine for sure.
One thing I'm sure of .... It's not 100 V. 43.8 is WAY too hot. Also the same for r17.
Gotta be r19

 

[LMICHAEL]

Guys I think I know what it is!! RELOADER 19. 43.8 from a 22" bbl shows exactly the same mv that wrhunter had with psi at 53,759 which almost perfectly matches Hornadys standard pressure.
If you guys can report on here what the temps were and bbl length with mv we can determine for sure.
One thing I'm sure of .... It's not 100 V. 43.8 is WAY too hot. Also the same for r17.
Gotta be r19

I pulled a bullet on a loaded round. It was 41.2 grains of what ever they are using. I plugged it into quick load and it gave me the same velocity as what my gun was shooting. This was with 100v. I also looked at reloader 17 after I posted and it defiantly wouldn't be that. It must be reloader 19 or 100v.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I pulled a bullet on a loaded round. It was 41.2 grains of what ever they are using. I plugged it into quick load and it gave me the same velocity as what my gun was shooting. This was with 100v. I also looked at reloader 17 after I posted and it defiantly wouldn't be that. It must be reloader 19 or 100v.

Hell, I guess they are using both 19 and 100v. As a matter of fact, I know they "used" or "are still using" 100v now that I think about it because someone posted it and showed the powder. But 43.8 is almost 65,000 psi with 100v. But 41.2 is dead nus at 52,900. The ONLY thing that makes since with velocity an pressure is R19. R17 would be 62,200 psi and have the 140 moving at 2890 from a 24" bbl. R19 is right at 2738 fps with a 24" bbl whih sounds right to me

 

[LMICHAEL]

Hell, I guess they are using both 19 and 100v. As a matter of fact, I know they "used" or "are still using" 100v now that I think about it because someone posted it and showed the powder. But 43.8 is almost 65,000 psi with 100v. But 41.2 is dead nus at 52,900. The ONLY thing that makes since with velocity an pressure is R19. R17 would be 62,200 psi and have the 140 moving at 2890 from a 24" bbl. R19 is right at 2738 fps with a 24" bbl whih sounds right to me

I built 3 guns and two of them I shot both old and new ammo out of. The two guns I shot had 26" barrels and both had very close to the same muzzle velocity. Actually, they had the same muzzle velocity as the good loaded ammo. The only difference was the horrible grouping with the new ammo. It would be nice if hornady fixed the issue because if this is the case I will re-chamber to something else. If I have to reload might as well build 3 6.5 saum's.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I built 3 guns and two of them I shot both old and new ammo out of. The two guns I shot had 26" barrels and both had very close to the same muzzle velocity. Actually, they had the same muzzle velocity as the good loaded ammo. The only difference was the horrible grouping with the new ammo. It would be nice if hornady fixed the issue because if this is the case I will re-chamber to something else. If I have to reload might as well build 3 6.5 saum's.

Let me guess. 2790 to 2800 fps

 

[Pusher591]

That's BS!!! Hornady better do something before their flagship round ears it hard.

 

[LMICHAEL]

Thats what I was expecting but it was actually it ranged from 2735 to 2745. I reloaded some with 42.5 of 4350. It shot awesome and my velocity was around 2820.

 

[wrhunter]

My factory ammo (3132438) velocity, 2670 avg. was taken at 39 degrees f. 22" barrel.

Same day my hand loads, 41.5 h4350 / federal gm210m / 140 Amax / new brass averaged about 2685fps. Accuracy was no where near as good as the factory stuff. I did have pretty good accuracy with the same load using Hornady 140 bthp. Around .5 moa vs 1 moa or so with the Amax. Didn't think much of it though since I hadn't done any load development yet.

 

[usmc02xx]

tag