Gunsmithing The New 585HE, Info-

[hubel585]

Introducing myself and our work.. Ed Hubel from MI.
I am a big bore researcher, gunnut, and wildcatter,
and have posted our work around the net.
Under the name of the thread, 12ga From Hell
I have worked on 12,10,8,4ga, wildcat 700s and up and
down. And have tested long 28, 24, 20ga cases.
Favorite wildcat that's gaining numbers is the 585 Hubel Express.

Here is picture of the first 585HE done and shooting in Australia.
A nicely stocked Ruger #1, nice dark grained stock.
It is owned by the poster, ''tankhunter'' on the AR forums.
Built by his smith who has a reamer.
Guys there can get cases from Bertram.

There are 3 barrels of cases in US.. Here is picture of 585HE in
nice stocked Enfield..First one in FL. First 585HE in TX guy
has it on Y-tube, Second picture is barrel of cases.
And they are now making another dozen barrels of cases.Ed

We get asked about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads,
can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...Moderate/hunting/target
loads still much more energy than 577NE. And can be had without costing a
years pay.

Versatility. Most none elephant hunters can use on lighter game, for
example, shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for about 75 cents each,
once you have cases. Great for target fun, hogs, deer, etc... Cases
last forever. We can load to any power level we need or want.
There are more variety of .585" bullets, jacketed,turned, lead, than any other
caliber over 458. Here are about a third we have found..
Including some extra long and heavy for whisper, subsonic type load,
with 4000 ft lbs energy. That's huge energy for subsonic cartridge

Asked about using in a #1, And it's perfect case for the Ruger #1.
We got 2 in FBW falling blocks made.
The few #1s ever done in 577, they had to relieve
metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
rests against because of rim. Ours we don't have to and the #1s
extractors I've seen work better with belted case than big rimmed.
Ours holds more powder, cases built for extreme pressures.

Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
Dies available now are CH4D, 3 die set, with one inch thread.
It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
To bottom of most bullets. It has effiencies of 37+%, where necked cases
in 50cal trying to get same energy, are about 29%.

The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
out after firing. Here is a nice single with 585HE in it.

Here is picture of first 585HE put in MRC PH. PH mag box feeds the
585HE cases as it comes from mfg. Ed

 

[hubel585]

We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
don't break under heavy loads.

And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute. We started
using rubber coated mouse balls that we have a big pail of.
They are steel with rubber coating, and right weight.
And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
a piece of dense foam pressed under butt pad.

We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
with the bullets loaded out.long. 200gr settled good in picture.

And more fun shooting, using 4 black powder substtiute pellets
under a Minie bullet. Nice cloud of aromatic smoke,
Pictured is 4 54cal pellets under the Minie. Ed

 

[hubel585]

In a related 585 caliber size we made the 24ga FH, and lengthened 24ga chamber to 3 inches.
The barrel of our 585HE is .585" bore and rifled 24ga bore, are same size. And some of
58cal Minie bullets available to buy or cast are .585-.687" and work in the 24ga case fine.

Now we found a fast, easy way to get 24ga brass cases, just get 577NE brass and reduce
the rim from .750" to 24ga size of .720" and re-stamp casehead 20ga . Using 3" 577 brass.
We made 24ga chamber for 3" case, brass fits and the regular 24ga 2.5" plastic works also.

.

Our 585HE has same overall loaded length as a 505 Gibbs.
Holds up to 190gr ball powder under bullets...Any gun that can be set up for Gibbs can feed
the 585HE. The long bolt actions work, like Enfield, BBK, Savage, Ruger, MRC PH, etc,
and it is tested in break actions and falling block actions where length is not a factor..

First picture is the 585HE in a NEF we mono-blocked a 585 barrel into.

Second picture is couple cases loaded with CEB solid turned brass bullets.

Third picture is 585 in a FBW falling block action we adapted to fit into one piece stock. Ed

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[hubel585]

WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.

First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is the
4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
them and put their own headstamp on..

Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.

Third is one with bore rider bullet in with others behind. Maybe make
a great long range target/hunting cartridge.Like using Barnes bullets
Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.

Cases are made super strong, made in the same factory run as the super
high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
belt as 408 Cheytac/505 Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws,
uses different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
These are not old style balloon head junk cases.

We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
Reamer specs all set and in the chambers made with them, the cases
extract at the highest pressures.
Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP..Ed

 

[hubel585]

In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.

We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.

Ourcases have a diameter that works with regular .700" dia bolt guns,
without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
Here is picture of our case held in a Ruger bolt, as an example..

And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much
harder to deaw harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper
strength, because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
and heading operations in the mfg process.
Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
no extraction problems. We tested 70,000 psi loads.

We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.

WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies.
Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.

The one setup in the the NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
into it and gun weighted, with thick pad, is the first in TX
and there is video put on ytube by the owner-- URL below-- Ed

Shooting my .585 Hubel Express - YouTube

 

[ddavis]

I've read some of your 12 gauge from Hell stuff and found it very interesting. You are doing some neat stuff.

 

[hubel585]

Thankyou and ther eare many others helping out..

First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankhunter with his Ruger #1.

If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide

next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed

I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed

 

[hubel585]

In the process of checking out all bullets/slugs in 585 size caliber,
it lead to the idea of the little brother of our 585HE, a 24ga FH.
Very suitable for shotgun only deer areas, with a very effective load.
And a huge supply and variet of bullets and slugs.
Same rifled bore as our 585HE, same barrels work. And they
have big supply of barrels, so we don't wait like for 12ga FH ones.
Using brass cases they get loads like 577NE which is same bore.
And many guys like idea of 577/585 size without spending
10 grand. 650gr at 2000 and 540 gr at 2200 fps not too bad.
And for lighter non-African dangerous game we use a variety of
lighter 58cal saboted and lead Minie bullets as well as heavy ones..

First is picture of a Minie bullet with a seal we made from 24ga
BPI brushwad, Seal fits up inside the hollowbase of the Minies.
We make them cutting BPI brush wads in half, without the cushion.

Next picture is of 28cal Hornady ML sabot with .452" pistol bullets
of 250 to 300 gr in them for lighter high speed load, for 24ga FH.
Nice for deer and target fun. And all these will
still shoot in 585HE also.

Next picture is idea for the 585HE Whisper subsonic load with long,
real, heavy bullets, shown with dummy bullets in the cases.
Idea came from an experimenter, Bret in MN, and with a 1600 gr
bullet at subsonic 1050 fps gives 4000 ft lbs, a huge amount
over other subsonic cases guys have made. And can have subsonic
loads with the regular 750 gr bullets also 900gr, 1000gr, 1200gr, etc.Ed

 

[hubel585]

Here is 585 FBW falling block with Hogue Knoxx Compstock.
That stock helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed

Here is some of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
Most of the McGowens profiled and few are straight blanks.
Others from another place in paper wrap are the slow twist and
others are smooth .In back are some of the cases and die sets.