The Next Trayvon Martin Case?

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

It was a calamity of bad decisions by three people. Why did Aburey decide to explore the house. Why did he continue running towards the confrontation? Why did he go after the guy with the shotgun?
Why were the duo like ducks in a tic about this house? Why did they grab guns and track him down? Why didn't they just follow until the police do the job? Like they say about every tragedy. Remove one of the legs and everyone goes home safe and healthy.
The day their paths crossed multiple bad decisions were made and the only people that will have a happy ending are the lawyers.
The extent/ depth of people that are wrapped up in this case is crazy.
Will the father and son get bent over to keep the city from burning?

 

[jakelly]

And I promise you those are in a very small minority of situations.

You can find the shitty people in any profession if you look and focus on it. That’s exactly what the media does. You’ll never find a perfect way about anything on this planet. You can only go by the odds.

A case such as this, (unless some other information is revealed) will likely hinge in some fairly narrow legal interpretations. The odds are much better with a bench trial for a situation such as this.

Now, if a defense attorney sees all the info and thinks the strict legal interpretation likely won’t be on their side, then you want a jury trial where you focus on the “intent* of the defendants and you play on the emotional level. “Are you will to send two men to prison for doing what they felt was a service to their community?” Emotional plays like that.

I think you’re wrong about this. I think the first DA was right about this case as it pertains to the law. The expert interview @Maser posted seems to echo the takeaway. Whether citizens arrest or not, these guys seem to be within lawful actions.

I also disagree with you about the frequency of injustice, and activist judges. Whatever the percentage is, it’s not a number so insignificant that it shouldn’t be considered when choosing a bench trial. Those are elected positions and I have not seen many experienced lawyers that would echo your sentiment to their clients.

 

[Lesch]

Well we have admission of being a lib.

Now maybe a rehab facility and ten step program.

There is no cure for liberalism. It just like rabies. Once infested......it's all over and no coming back. We have now proof here

 

[lonegunman762x51]

These guys are in for a tough go. The perp’s previous mug shot was not used but these two guys don’t have much of a “professional appearance” to represent. I put their odds at less than 25%.

When you have people like the leftists/racists posting here you can see why anything resembling a fair trial is impossible for a fair skinned person. If you are pale, they rant about your whiteness and firmly believe every decision you make is racist. If you are from Latin America and white or fair skinned you are a racist and white, therefore impossible to listen too. No matter where your family is from, according to the racists here, pale skin implies "racist". Unless one of your parents is black, then you are always a victim.

Can you imagine getting a racist insurance adjuster on your jury? That leftist/racist would ignore all evidence and convict you based solely on skin color. It is the reverse of his Klansman grandfather's behavior. They always seem to exist in an extreme rage against someone.

 

[edub1309]

It was a calamity of bad decisions by three people. Why did Aburey decide to explore the house. Why did he continue running towards the confrontation? Why did he go after the guy with the shotgun?
Why were the duo like ducks in a tic about this house? Why did they grab guns and track him down? Why didn't they just follow until the police do the job? Like they say about every tragedy. Remove one of the legs and everyone goes home safe and healthy.
The day their paths crossed multiple bad decisions were made and the only people that will have a happy ending are the lawyers.
The extent/ depth of people that are wrapped up in this case is crazy.
Will the father and son get bent over to keep the city from burning?

I agree with you here.. remove any one factor, one bad decision, and the outcome is completely different. But at the end of the day we’re still talking about a life lost. White, black, robber, innocent man.. it doesn’t really matter, does it? It’s tragic regardless. I think these citizens arrest laws certainly need to be examined in the wake of this. It’s not like they were trying to hold a terrorist at bay until police arrived—at worst they thought he was a robber, and he was clearly unarmed out on a run. Idk. More needs to be done.

 

[edub1309]

I’ve only listened to the first hour, I’ll finish it later. The guest makes excellent points, this is the only defense law that his firm practices- use of force. Some points folks here have made.
Here are some of his points:
-Look at the case backwards, if all we had was the last five seconds of video, this is clearly a self defense case. McMichaels did nothing unlawful.
-Therefore if McMichaels was to be responsible for murder, his actions prior to that had to be unlawful.
-Georgia has some simple and/or broad statutes concerning burglary and citizens arrest.
-Of particular relevance, you don’t have to steal anything to be guilty of felony burglary in Georgia. Going there with intent to steal is enough. This doesn’t necessarily have to be true of Arbery, simply that the McMichaels had reasonable suspicion that he intended to steal.
-They were within the law to pursue him. You need to hear his breakdown, but case law is going to endorse their actions, not condemn them.
-None of the above three points are really relevant, because they did not perform an arrest. That came from the former DA. Their own statements were that they said, “We want to ask you some questions.”
-He doesn’t think that citizens arrest is of consequence to this case. However they would likely have been within the law if they had attempted one.
-They did not brandish their weapons or threaten Mr. Arbery. They didn’t detain or impede him.
-Without threats, without brandishing, this is a simple self defense case. They had legal grounds to tell Arbery they wanted to ask him some questions, they had reason and the right to carry guns to defend themselves (he did attack them), and the shooting was self defense.

This is a REALLY good break down of the facts/case. I’ve tried to stay away from this episode because frankly I just don’t want to get involved, but I hadn’t heard this perspective before now. I think the loss of life is tragic, unbearably so if you’re his family or friends. And I really think we need to examine these citizen arrests laws. Some of it being within their right to arrest (even though they didn’t) is a bit of a stretch. Even with GA law being what it is, we don’t know his intent in entering that building. He could have been curious for all we know. But, from everything else you described, it certainly sounds like self defense.

 

[SSG69]

C’mon people. Anybody who thinks this was murder is a fucking idiot. It doesn’t matter if the crackers were dressed in full klan garb saying “fuck you nigger!” the dumb fuck charged him and grabbed his weapon and pulled on it. These guys are idiots no doubt, but that does not change the fact that the jazzerciser attacked. Good shoot, and he should have thought about it before going for the weapon. Honestly, we all know he shouldn’t have even been there period. One juror with some fucking sense and they walk.

 

[SSG69]

C’mon people. Anybody who thinks this was murder is a fucking idiot. It doesn’t matter if the crackers were dressed in full klan garb saying “fuck you nigger!” the dumb fuck charged him and grabbed his weapon and pulled on it. These guys are idiots no doubt, but that does not change the fact that the jazzerciser attacked. Good shoot, and he should have thought about it before going for the weapon. Honestly, we all know he shouldn’t have even been there period. One juror with some fucking sense and they walk.

And to add, it wouldn’t matter a bit if it was two blacks that shot a white guy. Same thing, he went for the fucking gun.

 

[edub1309]

And to add, it wouldn’t matter a bit if it was two blacks that shot a white guy. Same thing, he went for the fucking gun.

Just to play devils advocate: if you were walking down the street, minding your business, and two guys pull a gun on you, and you decide to take your chances because why not? Maybe you can take them and save your life. They shoot. You die. They should walk? Because you charged them? I know I changed the scenario a bit, but I point is it’s not just black and white.

 

[SSG69]

Just to play devils advocate: if you were walking down the street, minding your business, and two guys pull a gun on you, and you decide to take your chances because why not? Maybe you can take them and save your life. They shoot. You die. They should walk? Because you charged them? I know I changed the scenario a bit, but I point is it’s not just black and white.

Save my life? I wouldn’t immediately think they were gonna kill me. I would think they were gonna rob me maybe, but there’s no way I would play tug of war on the wrong end of a 12 gauge.

 

[TACC]

This.

If you suspect a burglary call the police and let them handle it. Dont be a dumb ass and ride around strapped chasing the guy trying to be a hero.

Conversely, if someone approaches you carrying a shot gun, run the other way, dont be a dumb ass and attacked someone who is armed and expect not to get shot. Why did he do that?

The whole thing is a damn shame.

I thought I was the only putz that thought like this.

 

[edub1309]

Save my life? I wouldn’t immediately think they were gonna kill me. I would think they were gonna rob me maybe, but there’s no way I would play tug of war on the wrong end of a 12 gauge.

Fair, and nor would I. But I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that somebody might panic while at the business end of a gun. Did he make the right move? Obviously not or he’d be here to tell the story. But what do I know. We’re all just playing Monday morning quarterback on this thing. Regardless I think it’s a shame somebody lost their life. Whether he panicked, they panicked; three lives are forever and irrevocably altered and that sucks no matter how you spin it.

 

[SSG69]

Panicked and attacked. Doesn’t change the fact HE attacked. They walk.

 

[edub1309]

Panicked and attacked. Doesn’t change the fact HE attacked. They walk.

Looking at it from their perspective, being attacked, I would have likely acted similarly. If it’s my life or yours sorry buddy, your clocks getting punched every time. But I think you’re wrong on them walking. For one, they confronted him. No idea about Georgia laws, but at least here in Ohio you can’t confront somebody with a firearm and it lead to the use of deadly force. But forgetting that, this thing has gotten so political there’s no chance they walk. I feel like there would be an LA race riot situation if these two get off. And jury nullification is a thing. I guess time will tell.

 

[SSG69]

I will bet you a grand they walk on the murder charge. For real.

 

[SSG69]

Damn I almost feel like a Democrat, not wanting to let a tragedy go to waste and all...

 

[edub1309]

I will bet you a grand they walk on the murder charge. For real.

I’d bet that not all charges are dropped.

 

[edub1309]

I’d bet that not all charges are dropped.

The gambler in me so wants to take this bet but relying on humans isn’t smart. It could go either way. But you’re clearly more sure than I am. Lol

 

[SSG69]

Maybe not. Not guilty on murder though I think.

 

[SSG69]

I just think if it is a jury trial the defense will surely get one juror with some sense.

 

[SSG69]

Bet stands to any 1 person that wants it.

 

[edub1309]

Maybe not. Not guilty on murder though I think.

I mean I’ve been wrong before.. Thought Casey Anthony would be guilty. That didn’t turn out either.

 

[SSG69]

I mean I’ve been wrong before.. Thought Casey Anthony would be guilty. That didn’t turn out either.

miscarriage of justice on that one

 

[NY700]

All this bickering is a moot point if they get just one person like me on thier jury.

I'll just go ahead and toss my white marble in the hat .

They walk.

min so confused. How could you or anyone for that matter have made up their mind based on the limited information we have.

now as someone who investigates shit for a living I will say these two are in deep shit. The video would appear to show they initiated a confrontation with an individual and then deployed deadly force on an unarmed individual.

I’m not sure what argument can be made for the use of deadly force in that situation especially when they initiated the confrontation.

and no even the allegation of a person who may have been the one responsible for steeling someone’s stuff at another time and place doesn’t rise to the use of deadly force

 

[edub1309]

min so confused. How could you or anyone for that matter have made up their mind based on the limited information we have.

now as someone who investigates shit for a living I will say these two are in deep shit. The video would appear to show they initiated a confrontation with an individual and then deployed deadly force on an unarmed individual.

I’m not sure what argument can be made for the use of deadly force in that situation especially when they initiated the confrontation.

and no even the allegation of a person who may have been the one responsible for steeling someone’s stuff at another time and place doesn’t rise to the use of deadly force

That’s what I thought. Initiating a confrontation throws out any claim to self-defense, right?

 

[Tokay444]

Initiated a confrontation with someone jogging directly at them, trying steal a gun from them, and punching them in the head, remember? Maybe you need to look up what, “initiated” means.

 

[edub1309]

Initiated a confrontation with someone jogging directly at them, trying steal a gun from them, and punching them in the head, remember? Maybe you need to look up what, “initiated” means.

They were lying in wait and using a chase vehicle. Maybe you should look up what “initiated” means.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

When it starts the bigger city's burn first then their, power, water, & food get cut off. It's not going to end like they plan,... The tit suckers of all kinds will get their do,...

 

[Tokay444]

Oh now there was a chase vehicle! Bahahaha.

 

[NY700]

Oh now there was a chase vehicle! Bahahaha.

the vehicle which captured the video. There is disputing allegations as to that individuals involvement in this whole thing.

why was he recording it with his cell phone (this was not a dash cam that just happened to capture the event). So for some time prior to the altercation he was driving behind Arbery recording him with a cell phone.

the two defendants were in a truck stopped on the side of the road both outside thevehicle.
The question will be why were they there
Why were they already outside of the vehicle
Why was he armed with a fire arm drawn
Even if they were made aware of Arbery having stopped and walked around that construction site that doesn’t bEmpower them to do shit about it except call the police. They didn’t own the land, they didn’t see him and he didn’t do anything but look around . At most he was trespassing that certainly wouldn’t rise to the level of making a citizens arrest and use of deadly force

Both my parents and I own homes in a community with lots of new construction. I think my mothers favorite past time is going in after the construction crews have left and seeing their progress and looking at the layouts of new homes. She is a 70 year old white lady. No body says shit about it. And yes there is a lot of theft in the area. Other “hard working decent families”!seem to think it’s ok to go on construction sites and taken”scraps” but of course it’s not all scraps and the remnants are likely to be used on the house next door but it’s ok they think. I’m sure if she was a 25 yr old black man people wouldn’t treat it differently.

 

[Dunraven]

From my Fox News app: Maryland elderly couple was shot and killed while visiting the grave of their deceased child in a cemetery. The murderer was later shot by the police. The couple, aged 85 and 86, Paul and Lidia Marino, were white; the murderer was black. Now, how many of you have heard this story on MSM? I hadn't. My only surprise is that the MSM hasn't attacked the police for killing another one of their pure-as-the-driven-snow black men. But give them time.

 

[j-huskey]

@NY700
If yo momma was a 25 year old black man we would all be treating her different. Just sayin...

 

[FS1]

The stupidity in this situation can be seen in both sides. On that you can decide for yourselves. All I know is that in this case the guys with guns are likely to have to prove their innocence. Though, even if they are able to do that? The side with the dead body won't accept it.

The same goes if they are proven guilty. The side with the shooter won't accept it. There will be no winners here, no matter what happens. Just more division.

 

[Tokay444]

the vehicle which captured the video. There is disputing allegations as to that individuals involvement in this whole thing.

why was he recording it with his cell phone (this was not a dash cam that just happened to capture the event). So for some time prior to the altercation he was driving behind Arbery recording him with a cell phone.

the two defendants were in a truck stopped on the side of the road both outside thevehicle.
The question will be why were they there
Why were they already outside of the vehicle
Why was he armed with a fire arm drawn
Even if they were made aware of Arbery having stopped and walked around that construction site that doesn’t bEmpower them to do shit about it except call the police. They didn’t own the land, they didn’t see him and he didn’t do anything but look around . At most he was trespassing that certainly wouldn’t rise to the level of making a citizens arrest and use of deadly force

Both my parents and I own homes in a community with lots of new construction. I think my mothers favorite past time is going in after the construction crews have left and seeing their progress and looking at the layouts of new homes. She is a 70 year old white lady. No body says shit about it. And yes there is a lot of theft in the area. Other “hard working decent families”!seem to think it’s ok to go on construction sites and taken”scraps” but of course it’s not all scraps and the remnants are likely to be used on the house next door but it’s ok they think. I’m sure if she was a 25 yr old black man people wouldn’t treat it differently.

Your mother needs to mind her own fucking business and stay off other people’s property.

 

[RTH1800]

These guys get convicted and Atlanta will burn!

Oh, wait, white people don’t burn things up when they get dissed.

 

[NY700]

Your mother needs to mind her own fucking business and stay off other people’s property.

your right her and all the other families in the neighborhood looking.

my favorite is her neighbor two doors down. Good family. Married couple. Couple of kids you g both kids under 10. Pastor in a local church. He loves to load up the family in the Razr and help himself to the left overs. Probably has a few thousand dollars in stone in his front yard. Not sure what’s worse the clear theft or the over the top landscaping!

what should we do. Call the police? Report him to the builders. Or take him under citizens arrest and if he tries to fight or run I’ll shoot him. I mean he wasn’t directly stealing from me but that’s irrelevant. And I did t catch him in the act but I know what he is doing.

I should probably just report him to the HOA those fucking jackels are worse than the cops

 

[RTH1800]

I vote for making a citizens arrest but only shoot if he charges you, punches you in the head and repeatedly jerks on the gun barrel causing it to fire.

 

[Tokay444]

Thieves should lose their hands.

 

[Snuby642]

I watched the film.

Good shoot.

Let them go.

 

[NY700]

I watched the film.

Good shoot.

Let them go.

what the video appears to show is two men waiting to confront a man jogging down the street.

the man running fits the description of some one who broke into homes. The description he matches is black male

so based on black male you are ok with confronting and attempting a citizens arrest.

the reason why we as a society don’t do that is because a lot of wrong people will be detained their rights infringed and potentially killed.

how would you take to being detained if the description was white male and two random people tried to detain you, one holding a rifle.

what if it was young white female and two black men tried to detain your white teenage daughter because a high school girl stole some stuff while babysitting and yourdaughter was jogging down the street. Same age race hair color. Two grown man grab her and yell citizens arrest one has a gun.
she screams she runs she kicks and scratches gets a couple punches and and while trying to grab the firearm it goes off and kills her. Fuck her she should have gone willingly with these armed strangers. She should not have run through that work site she committed a class C misdemeanor for which the owner of the property had pressed no charges but clearly these good men protecting their neighborhood had every right to put down that bitch. She may have been the one that stole some stuff before and she clearly fits the description.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

He was trespassing, it went down hill from there. He started the chain of events. Many places in this country do not take trespassing lightly, an some states have explicated laws about same.

 

[Snuby642]

I don't think the video needs an explination.

Especially your convoluted one.

@NY700

 

[RTH1800]

You need to review some figures on white on black and black on white crime.
Once done you can then revert to the other old lines of bullshit about “mass incarceration of black” men being racist and the one about black criminal tendencies being related to events of over a century ago.
No matter the facts you will fall back on it all being the white mans fault.

 

[Ravenworks]

And it gets better-

Ahmaud Arbery case: Texts suggest Georgia police enlisted help from suspect months before shooting, report says

Ahmaud Arbery case: Texts suggest Georgia police enlisted help from suspect months before shooting, report says

The investigation into the murder of Ahmaud Arbery grows increasingly complicated as new conflicts arise.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Tokay444]

What the video EXPLICITLY shows, is a man running towards, attacking, and trying to disarm a man with a gun.
whatever else you want to read into beyond those clearly visible facts are on you. You’re not going to convince anyone void of emotion on the subject and logical thought pattern of otherwise.

 

[NY700]

This the case where the black guy was breaking into everyone’s house ave got shot while they were apprehending him?

Thieves should all be dead

the problem is there is no evidence he was a thief
And by the shooters account he did not know if he was a thief he fit the description of a thief

if this man was standing over my wife jewelry box in our bedroom i would have shot him where he stood

Shooting the next guy who runs down my block who fits the description of a guy who robbed my neighbor is not the appropriate action

 

[NY700]

We all carry bias. Recognize your own and work hard to recognize when it may be effecting your decisions or beliefs!

Also recognize when your cries for action run parallel with Sharia Law. Thieves should lose their hands, criminals stoned (shot )in the street

due process. Investigation it’s there for a reason and the times it has failed is not a justification to abolish.

we have had comments in this thread. They definitely should have called the police and you know what happens when call the police nothing.

the potential loss of property is a lousy reason to take a life

 

[NY700]

He was trespassing, it went down hill from there. He started the chain of events. Many places in this country do not take trespassing lightly, an some states have explicated laws about same.

Tense matters.
In this case the argument would be he had trespassed. He wasn’t confronted on the grounds or in the act. The owner of the land is not the one who approached.

by this argument anyone who may have had done something in the past is open to confrontation by a disinterested party in the future.

citizens arrests are rare and generally a bad idea for a reason. This is a prime example of that reason

 

[Ravenworks]

What the video EXPLICITLY shows, is a man running towards, attacking, and trying to disarm a man with a gun.
whatever else you want to read into beyond those clearly visible facts are on you. You’re not going to convince anyone void of emotion on the subject and logical thought pattern of otherwise.

It's called stalking your quarry.

 

[NY700]

I don't think the video needs an explination.

Especially your convoluted one.

@NY700

I don’t think I have a convulsed view of the video.
2 men attempted to detain a man who fit the description of a man accused of burglering homes in the neighborhood.

as one would expect in that situation a confrontation commenced and a man was shot and killed.

that’s what the video shows.