Thoughts on HK MR556A1 or Daniel Defense M4A1 Mil Spec?

[imacad]

To get back OT... DD v. HK

Shot the DD a few times. Very similar performance to other DI guns and they do add some cool touches the rifle.

Own 2 MR556, one in pistol format, and they are heavy. They are heavy and overbuilt per specifications that were used on the 416, granted we're given the nerfed non-chrome lined barrel.

I've shot both over 10K rounds and rarely clean them and often suppressed. I haven't had any failure or parts failure. If you're a civilian, the gun is likely to outlast you and the discussion on expensive replacement parts is a non-factor.

Weight concerns... get in the gym. These were made for the kids who went through boot ...

 

[RyanScott]

The “go to the gym” comments are stupid. Read “The Soldiers Load and the Mobility of a Nation” and then google what service related musculoskeletal damage costs taxpayers and get back to me.

Every ounce on any piece of kit needs to justify its existence.

 

[dms416]

Weight concerns... get in the gym. These were made for the kids who went through boot ...

I sang that tune until I had to cover a second-story walkway from ground level for several hours for a barricaded subject with a hostage. Had the door frame to help for stabilization for a while. My 416 was not my friend on that one. The ounces mattered that day I can tell you. For most things, the ounces don't matter until they do and when they do, they are critical. Same goes for the guys here that hunt with heavier rigs; guys who do serious hike/fly-in hunting stuff laugh at that macho bullshit. I understand there are guys out there humping 100lb packs and M249's in full armor on foot patrol...but it comes at significant short-term and long-term expense and is not worth the cost of bragging rights.


Most decent guns today will get a user to 10k without issue; HK or not. It's that 20k with little-to-no assistance that separates the men from the boys. I do find it ironic that the Snipers hide is chock full of guys that eat precision barrels on a yearly basis but curiously think a 10k round AR will last a lifetime and logistics aren't an issue. I can NOT deny that if I wanted to take a 416 to 25,000 rounds and beyond, I could fit what I truly need in spare parts in an Altoids bin.

The AR15 is designed to be a fluid in-line system. The G36/AR18 op-rod is not. Again, people smarter than me have hypothesized that the true success of the 416's longevity may not be fully attributed to the operating system but in subtle upgrades and deviation from the TDP and using newer materials...possibly even IN SPITE of the aggressive operating system that was never meant to fit in the AR15 foot print.

 

[dms416]

The “go to the gym” comments are stupid. Read “The Soldiers Load and the Mobility of a Nation” and then google what service related musculoskeletal damage costs taxpayers and get back to me.

Every ounce on any piece of kit needs to justify its existence.

THANK YOU!!!

Although it does help to skyline people faster so they can be added to the "ignore" pile.

 

[ShaoKahn]

The “go to the gym” comments are stupid. Read “The Soldiers Load and the Mobility of a Nation” and then google what service related musculoskeletal damage costs taxpayers and get back to me.

Every ounce on any piece of kit needs to justify its existence.

Thats great. Now I want to see the shape of these people considering these purchases. A soldier has gone through extensive physical fitness tests and the equipment they’re given compliments that training. They can go faster and longer with lighter equipment. However if you have someone that doesn’t even go to the gym, and then complains that a rifle is too heavy, I think the right answer is “get to the gym.” They need that more than a lighter rifle.

 

[RyanScott]

Physical fitness should be a commitment that everyone makes, for many reasons. It is not an excuse to carry more weight than is needed.

 

[Daniel-01]

Thanks everyone for all the opinions and tons of good points for both the DD and HK.

Seen a lot of pro GAC comments, will definitely look at those!

Does anyone have experience with or opinions on the Cobalt Kinetics rifles?

 

[dms416]

Thanks everyone for all the opinions and tons of good points for both the DD and HK.

Seen a lot of pro GAC comments, will definitely look at those!

Does anyone have experience with or opinions on the Cobalt Kinetics rifles?

Can honestly say I've not heard of them... Beware some of the premium gucci shit too. Figure out where that extra money goes.
People want to pay money for HK, KAC, Hodge....fine, I get why as I know what goes into each respectively.

DD complete while sufficient are over-priced.
Love their barrels and use them frequently for builds to balance weight/accuracy/durability...and the 16" middy gassed at 0.072" and the 14.5 middy gassed at 0.076" are very reasonably gassed. I like some FN barrels depending on which vendor spec's them out. Some are over-gassed. Generally speaking with all things being equal, DD's on average will shoot 1/2 to 1/4 MOA tighter than FN's with the factory match ammo.

 

[Son of Dorn]

The Chauchaut made it through testing too.

The AR-18 operating system of the MCX is 60 years old also. And I don’t see where a handguard that was rigid was part of the SURG criteria.

The Remington 700s that form the basis of most bolt-action US sniper rifles are a 60-year-old design... the Mossberg 500s and successors are a 60-year-old design... The Beretta 92/M9 comes from the WWII-era Walther P38; the M240 machine gun is a 60-year-old design; the M2 Brownings started out in 1933.

"DI is an old design so it's not as useful."

 

[uscbadger]

Have the HK MR556 and also the LWRC IC A5. If you looking for a piston the LWRC is lighter and has less recoil in my experience. Also dont have to deal with HK on replacement parts which tend to be expensive. Have always been a HK fan but have to say like the LWRC better now that I have had time to train with both.

 

[Daniel-01]

Another stupid question... when getting a lets say 14.5 in barreled rifle delivered to your local dealer, do they have to pin and weld the brake before handing you the rifle or will they release it and you can do that yourself?

 

[houndog]

Although I haven't researched this issue, I can't believe a legit. FFL would transfer the rifle to you based on your "promise" to eventually get a brake pinned and welded onto the end.

In fact, if I'm remembering correctly, the one time I purchased a complete rifle with a 14.5" barrel it was the seller that insisted on a pinned and welded brake before he would even send it to my local FFL.

Or you could scrap the stock and put on a pistol brace, in which case it's not an issue.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

To get back OT... DD v. HK

Shot the DD a few times. Very similar performance to other DI guns and they do add some cool touches the rifle.

Own 2 MR556, one in pistol format, and they are heavy. They are heavy and overbuilt per specifications that were used on the 416, granted we're given the nerfed non-chrome lined barrel.

I've shot both over 10K rounds and rarely clean them and often suppressed. I haven't had any failure or parts failure. If you're a civilian, the gun is likely to outlast you and the discussion on expensive replacement parts is a non-factor.

Weight concerns... get in the gym. These were made for the kids who went through boot ...

This is a surefire way to tell the poster A has no idea what they are talking about and B. Never served in the military ( the real military not the dmv in uniform).

Trying to think of the times under a 80 pound pack without ammo or pyro that u said ya know what this doesnt need to be lighter.....nope dont recall.

 

[CrabsandFootball]

The Remington 700s that form the basis of most bolt-action US sniper rifles are a 60-year-old design... the Mossberg 500s and successors are a 60-year-old design... The Beretta 92/M9 comes from the WWII-era Walther P38; the M240 machine gun is a 60-year-old design; the M2 Brownings started out in 1933.

"DI is an old design so it's not as useful."

You fail to grasp the irony of his statement. Its common for autists not to read between the lines and understand subtlety, or humor.

Thats ok skro, im sure you can still lead a kick ass life

 

[imacad]

Another stupid question... when getting a lets say 14.5 in barreled rifle delivered to your local dealer, do they have to pin and weld the brake before handing you the rifle or will they release it and you can do that yourself?

Most manuf who sell rifles w/14.5" barrels have the brakes pinned/welded and making it compliant to a non-SBR.

 

[Daniel-01]

Most manuf who sell rifles w/14.5" barrels have the brakes pinned/welded and making it compliant to a non-SBR.

Thanks. Does KAC do that too?

 

[RyanScott]

KAC doesn’t and will void the warranty if you do. A friend had to build a tool to tighten a loose gas block nut on his own.

 

[vigildom7]

What about a Son of Liberty Gun Works

 

[texag0842]

DI = KAC
Piston = H&K

Personally what I run is the above. I have an H&K 416 and an MR556 on the way.

I run the SR15's I have more than the H&K's due to weight but they both work as advertised. You could also look at someone like Grant at MSTN to build you exactly what you want?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

The MR556A1 is a chunky half-brother to the 416 with the best part (the barrel) not even being of the same pedigree. Appropriately enough, Daniel Defense did the finish work on the MR556's state-side for legal/import red tape reasons. It shoots well, but it's heavy, proprietary and unnecessarily expensive.

Just for the sake of conversation, I've had several legit 416's and finally got my hands on an M27 upper last year. What's sad is, I could out-shoot that upper with a run-of-the-mill Daniel Defense 14.5" middy barreled upper that cost roughly 1/10th the price of the 16.5" 416 barrel and the gun is several pounds lighter. Logistically and performance/$, it's a no-brainer.

Where'd you get a legit M27 upper?

 

[dms416]

Where'd you get a legit M27 upper?

For the record, it was not an official USMC marked upper, but a 16.5" with the correct specs and bayonet lug. I just want that to be clear.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

For the record, it was not an official USMC marked upper, but a 16.5" with the correct specs and bayonet lug. I just want that to be clear.

But still a legit 416 no?
Do you have a pic of the barrel without the handguard on? Also, how well did it group?

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

@THEIS whats your thoughts on HK416 vs Haenel MK556? Which one would you say is the nicer/better rifle? And do you know why Germany chose the Haenel over the HK416 and HK433?

 

[Budrichard]

The fundamental difference is Piston versus gas.
H&K, SIG, the quality is there in piston guns.
Gas, KAC.
I have an MCX Pistol and H&K MR556.
KAC SR25.
The ‘experts’ have lots and lots of reasons for one over the other.
You choose!
-Richard

 

[strikeeagle1]

I have been pretty satisfied with the HK556A1 using both S&B 1-4 Short Dot and 3-20 Ultra Short out to 600 meters with simple ammunition. It's been good enough to qualify with Advanced Rating at the elite Roger's Shooting School @ 150 meters with a Aimpoint red dot.

 

[dms416]

But still a legit 416 no?
Do you have a pic of the barrel without the handguard on? Also, how well did it group?

Yes, legit 416 upper.

It shot OK. I could hold a 20-round mag in a 2 MOA or better group with 77gr SMK 5.56 Black Hills. Shot it out to 770 and 800y on a few occasions with a 1.1-4x Short Dot. Tried it with a 5-20 Ultra Short but it was about as heavy as a shorty AIAX so...might as well just shoot that.

Going with a longer rail than the factory quad helped a lot with mirage. The 14.5 and longer barrels get hot forward the gas block. There's a purge/bleed-off valve that pushes hot gas forward on to the barrel in front of the gas block. Not a problem with the 10.5, but longer barrels get hot and can show some thick mirage without a longer rail.

What's also interesting is that I did a workup on a buddy's 20" as well as my 16.5 and spent several years with 14.5's". They all chrono SLOW. The 20" was showing speeds 75-100 fps slower than the same round in an 18" SPR. I have DI 14.5's pushing the same loads 50fps faster than when used out of the 16.5".

 

[LeadZeke]

With gas control options from Superlative Arms and BRT, I'm amazed anyone still bothers with the ancient, heavy, and wear-inducing "piston in AR" designs. There is just no reason for them now, literally zero.

You can solve the problem by selecting a suppressor like an OSS, CGS Helios QD, MaxFlo, and soon the new KAC and SIG cans. That's the future right there.

Or you can solve the problem by using the SA adjustable gas blocks, or BRT tune ports or gas tubes. Stack them with other enhancements like the LMT E-BCG and you will have no issues running fully suppressor all the time on DI SBRs (not that most non-shit ARs had an issue with this anyways with decent modern cans).

OP, best option by far is to get someone experienced (like MSTN) to build one for you, or failing that pick up an LMT (with EBCG) and use the BRT gas tube. You can have an AR that is lighter, more accurate, and will last longer for the same or far less $$$$ as the HK.

Shoving a piston (yes yes, stoner gas system is an internal piston haha) in an AR15 hasn't made sense for the past 5 years at best.