I was just making sure that any new guys understood what was going on. Lots of newbie questions these days.
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If looking at a 25 yard zero being the equivalent of a 100 yard centerfire zero, what yardage do the 50 yard groups that seem to be the benchmark for rimfire accuracy equate to in centerfire?
What’s the typical velocities and sd’s you guys see when checking ammo. I tried non lot tested sk standard and center x today with good results.
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Might be an idiotic question but I'm going to let it rip after reading the whole thread.
25 or 30 yard zero does a few things for us. It mimics the "everything not your zero" is dial up, and it reduces wind variation, correct? We treat it like our 100 yard rifle zero where everything is always up.
I guess I didn't know until changing my zero distance that anything closer than 50 yards was actually dial DOWN. And I don't like that....
With regards to folks asking about the Mph method. 1 mph is what you use, and use it just like the center fire method. Get more granular with your range. 150 yards =1.5 etc.
10 mph at 150 yards is 1.5 mils.
15 at 100 is 1.5
5 at 50 is .25
Wanting to confirm what I put is the gist of the conversation and I'm not missing anything or understanding incorrectly.What is your question?
What’s the typical velocities and sd’s you guys see when checking ammo. I tried non lot tested sk standard and center x today with good results.
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The sk had an Es of 27 for 50 shots and the center x was 26 for 60 shots.That's fantastic. What are the ES?
I have SDs of 8.9 but an ES of 42. One series had a ES of 46. That's A LOT for .22lr and the distances we're shooting at. Considering moving to Midas for matches.
It’s all a great debate and surely interesting but a 25 yards zero is simply not possible for many shooter.
The 22RF match we shoot it’s 50 yards to 400 yards. To have enough elevation many use a 40 to 60 moa base. I can tell you than many cannot zero a 25 and often I’ve seen people unable to zero at 50. I had numbers of time to explain to people how to use a zero offset in their Kestrel.
Not to mention, anything past 300 is getting a bit impractical for an MD to include. 400 is the equivalent of over 1500yds with a .308 and 175 fgmm.
This is a common issue with .22 matches. MD’s think oh “it’s just 400yds.” But we are in ELR territory. There’s very, very few centerfire PRS style matches where you shoot over 1200yds. And then it’s usually only one stage.
If a .22 match has only one stage past 300, holdover and zero closer for what you’ll mostly be shooting. If it’s mainly 250+, well, now you’re in an ELR match and the discussion is different.
this is a great point and i think one that might be starting to get lost on people as the gear improves and the money being dropped on 22 matches increases. shooting out past 250 to 300 on rickety circus props at a 2 MOA target is either a dick move or not thinking it through properly
I've shot a ton of 200, 250+ with the 22. It basically starts coming apart due to the ammo at 200.
Even with Midas or CenterX and ES around 10, Ill see one impact over the target, then one under, then 1-2 hits, then one over/under again. Put cardboard up behind it and it draws almost a straight vertical line like I'm doing a ladder test. Had the velocity not have spread so much, it would be almost all hits.
The real 'fix' for this, as the ammo really is the limiting factor, is to make/use targets where your MOA size challenge level is the width of the plate and then you simply make a tall skinny shape thats 8+ inches tall; basically a bowling pin. So if your wind call is good (which is the hardest part by far) you're not screwed out of a shot because your rounds had a larger ES within a 5 shot group.
Putting larger circle plates out is easier as it lets you cheat on the wind, but I prefer the tall/skinny as it makes us focus on the wind call.
So for you 25 yard zero guys; I had something weird happen the other day when trying this. Usually I always zero'd everything at 100 in low/no wind as ebst as I could. Worst case, we'd measure the wind to 100, get a wind call, hold dead center and then compare where the group was in relation to center hold and what the wind should have done to the round.
Zero'd at 25 with 5 rounds ontop of each other. Then shot at 200 with a slow full value wind from the right and I was constantly to the right to where I technically would have been holding 2-3 times what the wind hold should have been. Is there a trick to refining this as I know what happened; the adjustments at 25y are so small you dont see them until you shoot further out. Even moving it .2 either way at 25 basically kept the rounds in the group. How do you figure this out without trial/error constantly at distance afterwards?
I zero at 25 for elevation and then move out to 100 for fine tuning of windage. I shoot indoors though. I have found that after zeroing at 25, I also get the 100 yard "drift" you describe.
What just hit me is I need to look on my Trimble as to what it says the spin drift is for it.
Usually leave it off. Curious now.
What just hit me is I need to look on my Trimble as to what it says the spin drift is for it.
Usually leave it off. Curious now.
Turn all that stuff off, IF you actually collect hard data and true your ballistic app to the hard data.By leaving it on, you're basically entering it in twice. When you tell the calc, "THIS is what my gun shoots", you are already taking into account for spin drift, coriolis, etc.
This is incorrect for spin drift as it is not linear.
I disagree. And so does @lowlight, if I'm not mistaken. At least that's what was told to us in his Oct 19 PR1/2 class. Although, I may have misunderstood him (I don't think so, though.)