Rifle Scopes Totally disgusted with Leupold

#51
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I do not agree with the comments about the SHOT Show reps though, especially at the Tactical Booth. We must have visited on different days. When I was there I saw two old friends. One was a former Marine of some renown in my circles, and the other was retired Army, although he mainly served his time shooting rifles from little birds to protect his buddies, like when that black hawk went down over there in Africa somewhere. Tactical rifles are high and holy things to them.

</div></div>

I meant no disrespect to anyone's friends or acquaintances, and next time I'll take down names instead of using a generalization. But my experience was pretty bad. The owner of a another tactical shooting forum reported a similar experience.

What's worse, I believe Leupold's brass dances around the issue with the public. I had the owner of a box store about get in my face when I told him Lupy scopes were substantially made in China. He thought I was plum crazy until I had him pull a Vari-X III off the shelf and challenged him to find where it was made on the box or the scope. you should have seen his face!

When he attended a dealer's only show recently, he confronted the "vice president" of Lupy, who told him "only the glass" is Chinese, and "everything else" was made right here. He was actually satisfied with that answer. I dropped the matter. No point in arguing, I can't "prove" anything.

Scott


 
#55
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I just sent in a Vari X III 3.5x10 LR Tactical M3 for warranty. The scope is an older version but has counter clocked up adjustment. Scope would not hold a zero, parallax and the groups sucked.

Got it back 3 weeks later and the paper said it was returned to as new condition with a warranty card enclosed.

This scope had very sharp clicks when knobs were turned. Now they appear mushy like the new scopes.

I will report on how it performs when I take it out.


I think Leupold sees the hunting market as their main source of revenue. I doubt their execs really care about the issues mentioned in this thread. The bottom line is all they see. I doubt it will get better in this shitty economy.
 
#56
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics makes a great product in the USA and what does one cost? $2,000-$3,000 and a comparable Leupold costs around $1,000</div></div>

FAIL. Not even comparable.

Leupold=the BOSE of the optics world now.

Thanks Terry.

 
#57
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

This has been a fantastic thread. Thanks for the passion Terry.

This isn't the first time we have seen fine companies rest on their name and brand recognition. As an earlier poster pointed out they are focusing on profitability and that large base that shoots 20 rounds a year and thinks that 3-5" at 100 yards is awesome!

I also love the Leupold=Bose comparison above.
 
#58
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

What about the service work? I was going to send a Mk4M3 in for a tune up. Is it going to get fixed right or just rebuilt with Chinese parts?
 
#60
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I were king for a day, I'd make corporate CEOs live and be citizens of the country where most of their employees live. </div></div>

I call for MontanaMarine to become king for a week. Great idea MM.
Things would change fast and for the better.
 
#61
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I always try to spec out equipment for my dept. that is made in the U.S. Most people I work with don't care where it comes from as long as it's cheap. I tell my team that when there kids grow up they won't be able to get a job b/c of out sourcing and they just laugh. What happened to pride in our country? Pisses me off. I will always buy home grown when given the choice.
 
#63
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JLM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US Optics makes a great product in the USA and what does one cost? $2,000-$3,000 and a comparable Leupold costs around $1,000</div></div>

FAIL. Not even comparable.

Leupold=the BOSE of the optics world now.

Thanks Terry.

</div></div>

You may be very correct that a US Optic and a Leupold does not compare for your purposes. But if Leupold did make a scope comparable to a US Optic and all made in the USA it would be in the same price range as the US Optics scope. AS a company Leupold probably said that they can do much better making scopes that are great scopes and fit the needs of 99% of the shooters out there. US Optics decided that they want to go after the remaining 1% that needs, or wants, the absolute best scope money can buy.

You guys need to remember that you are a VERY small minority of shooters, if LEupold catered only to you they would loose probably 90%+ of there market share.
 
#64
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

From Reelman,
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You may be very correct that a US Optic and a Leupold does not compare for your purposes. But if Leupold did make a scope comparable to a US Optic and all made in the USA it would be in the same price range as the US Optics scope. AS a company Leupold probably said that they can do much better making scopes that are great scopes and fit the needs of 99% of the shooters out there. US Optics decided that they want to go after the remaining 1% that needs, or wants, the absolute best scope money can buy.

You guys need to remember that you are a VERY small minority of shooters, if LEupold catered only to you they would loose probably 90%+ of there market share.</div></div>

U.S.Optics is a small U.S. operated business catering to competition and working guns. They have a very, very small workforce. Leupold has hundreds of employees reporting to work every day in Oregon. Leupold has a complete division dedicated to Law Enforcement and Military. . . . . . Did you hear me Reelman?. . . . A whole division of their company asking for what you are calling 1% of the market. Hmmm. Must be a pretty damn important 1%.

With 10 times the number of employees in that ONE division than U.S.Optics has in their entire operation, don't you think Leupold could cater to the market for which they dedicated AN ENTIRE DIVISION for?

Economies associated with strategic assets tend to make me lean toward thinking that Leupold could certainly produce a very competitive "working" type scope at a lower price than U.S.Optics. This is in no way, shape or form a knock on U.S.O. They are a custom scope maker that fills a niche and they offer an extremely good service at a very good price for what you get. John and his crew support this community and fight everyday to stay as competitive as possible.

With Leupold going after the L.E. and Mil markets and having a large chunk of their marketing, sales and product line supposedly geared to that direction, don't you think they should deliver the performance if they are going to ask for the business in the first place?

So basically, I am challenging your last post because I don't think any of your points are valid. This is nothing personal against you. I appreciate the critical thinking and debate as it insures we at least attempt to see all sides of this.

Thanks,
TC

 
#65
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

This is too darned ironic to not post.

My son just dropped the mail to me and sitting on top was this copy of the Saturday Evening Post.
scan0001.jpg
 
#67
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

NOt all agencies have a blank check to purchase $3,000 optics. Many of them can't even afford, or choose not, to spend that much on optics. This is one of the reasons that Leupold came out with the PR series so that those agencies can still have pretty good optics that fit in there budgets. To do this at this cost they have to go overseas. Or they could make a $300 scope in the USA and it would be a complete piece of shit due to the labor costs in the USA.

There is still a huge difference between the law enforcment and military agencies that spend the big $'s on optics compared to those that are responsible with taxpayer money. This is probably why Leupold has more employees in that division that US Optics has total, because they sell a ton more scopes to those agencies.

My point is that if you want a top end scope and are willing to pay for an entirely made in USA scope you have an option in US Opitcs, if all optic companies were made in the USA the sales would drop to next to nothing as most people will not pay thousands of dollars for a scope. Leupold is just adjusting to the changes and needs in the optics market.
 
#68
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Take a look back to just a few years ago. Leupold was making very high grade, dependable scopes right here. Their best, the Mk-4 was considered the benchmark for reliability and ruggedness. It was made in the U.S. and sold for a premium price. There were still more expensive scopes from others and scopes with more bells and whistles, but Leupold delivered a basic scope that could be counted on. Now they are throwing everything into that "Mk-4" name. That is diluting the strength of what Mk-4 used to mean and, once again, riding along on their originally well earned Mk-4 series name to sell lower grade products.

L.E. and Mil do not necessarily need custom scopes with every bell and whistle. What they do need is a reliable, rugged scope that offers basic utility and repeatability 110% of the time. That is what Leupolds original tactical scopes did. I really believe they could provide that basic scope in an affordable price range but have made the decision not to.

The P.R. series scopes are a paper tiger. They are sold and marketed as an affordable answer to serious users, yet their engineering, construction and performance should not, in my opinion, be on a working rifle regardless of how affordable they are. In that price range, get a Nikon and have a better scope.

I not asking that all optic companies make their scopes in the U.S. I'm am saying that some companies are subversive about where their product is coming from and what it is capable of repeatably delivering in hostile environments. I don't appreciate them trying to lead the industry in that direction.

 
#70
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Uncle Sam splits and then saws?
Maybe we should outsource that task
frown.gif


Head to head competition leads to bankruptcy.

In 1994 I bought some Motorola stock as I knew they have well designed radio circuits.

In 1994 I bought some Microsoft stock as I knew they had shitty product, but their stock kept going up.

It turns out that Motorola had competition, and my stock is not worth half of what I paid 15 years ago.

It turns out that Microsoft has no competition, and my stock has gone up 10X.



The trick is to have a big name, no competition, and charge high prices for high profits.
The average guy who only knows a name reputation or what country it was made can then be mislead.
Cell phone specs are so hard to compare, within a brand they cannot be compared.
The best bet for the consumer is to get the products in hand and compare, but we are buying on line.

 
#72
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I just sent a scope back to Junkopold because it wouldn't hold it's point of impact. The damn thing almost beat me home. Enclosed was a nice note saying that there were "No defects found", hmmm so why doesn't it hold the point of impact still? Leupold used to stand behind their product, but it appears to me that they no longer do that. What the hell is the point of putting a lifetime warrenty on a product if you don't honor it. It does however help the sales to have that written on the box. I am completely done with Leupold, I depend on my optics daily and Leupold has become undependable at best. What is their next upgrade going to be, scopes painted with lead based paint like every other piece of s@*t that comes from China?
 
#74
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

My observation from meeting some of the Leupold LEO/MIL reps at SHOT.
1. Very knowledgeable guys about their product.
2. Eager to discuss their products.
3. Did not want to talk about the future changes and any ideas LEO Q Public (the end user) may have.
4. Did not seem happy "in" their jobs. Sort of like a 15 year cop that just quits fighting and shows up to draw a check because he feels like management doesn't and will not listen to what is going on in the streets.
5. Will not return emails in reference to T&E of optics for an agency that wants to buy 30 units. Not that large of an order but 30 units they damn sure will not sell now.
6. I have been a loyal Leupold customer 26 years. I sold an old VXIII LONG RANGE (it was GTG)to buy a Mark 4 50mm TMR this new scope does not have as defined "clicks" mushy with margin for error in that you have a little bit of play that could go either way this has made my decision that I will not purchase any more new Leupold products.
As far as the RX Rangfinders go you had really do some internet "reviews" reading before you buy. I did my research then I got my hands on one and all of the bad was true. I can find plenty other user friendly product that actually perform as it claims.
 
#75
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Arctic Light, While I agree that most Chinese made stuff is just one step above junk but that's because the market want's stuff cheaper. In my industry I have found that stuff can be made in China just as good as in the USA if it's speced out and the QC is watched closely. When we sent some of our production to China our cost went down, production went up, and defective rate dropped like a rock. What took one USA employee 5 hours to make with about a 10% defective rate the Chinese were able to do in 2 hours with a 3% defective rate.

The nation of the employee doesn't really matter as much as the individual person making it.
 
#76
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Quality has gone down, and the price of parts and labor has gone down, so why hasn't the unit price gone down? Just because it has the Gold Ring?

Or, if you want to keep selling at their current prices, you damn well be RAISE your QC.

I'd rather have a Jap Nikon or Bushnell then what's currently being cranked out.



 
#77
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

"While they may still have satisfactory product performance and at least attempt innovative ideas occaisionally, I believe that they are straying from their roots, pumping a ton of money into foreign factories and putting yet another hole in the bottom of the lifeboat that retains at least a small fraction of our ability to domestically support our police and military logistics in the event of any serious conflict. I remain firmly convinced that we shall sorely curse the day that we wake up and realize that we need to raise our military to a task only to find out we have cut off our own legs. I aim this statement not only at Leupold but other textile, steel, electronics and molding industries based in the U.S. You don't just start that shit back up inside the U.S. borders overnight."

Gee, Only the <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">glass</span></span></span> was made in China?
I feel so much better.

Lots of great posts here.

You can also add the biggest software company in the world to the list of companies that once made most of their products in the USA. It seems like most of the people that work at Microsoft in Redmond anymore came from India. First they moved some of the work to India, now they have it there and they are moving Indians here on work visas at the expense of jobs for Americans. They are also making a big push into China. Will they bring Chinese Nationals to the USA like they did with the Indians? Makes me sick. Kiss my ass Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer.

I like and buy things made in America by Americans. I also like and buy German cars and German scopes.

To hell with the rest.


 
#79
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Wow, being a huge Leupold customer and advocate for a lot of years this is all very disheartening. I can't say I'm surprised about the outsourcing. This is the new trend in manufacturing. I think it's a disgrace, I don't care how much money companies save by doing it. Greed has ruined this country, and we have not yet begun to see the repercussions of it. I've watched many friends and other dedicated, faithful employees of the POS company I work for get laid off by the hundreds because of outsourcing to India. India?? Those people CAN'T EVEN PAVE A ROAD but we're having them build cutting edge electronic subsystems? It's no wonder you pay $600 for a BRAND NEW GE stove and it doesn't even work. Our POS governemnet should do it's fucking job, step up to the plate and protect the people of this country by penalizing companies that outsource. There is NO excuse for it, and greed is definitely not an excuse.

I have Leupolds MK4's on ALL of my long range rifles, including my Barrett .50. I just started building another rifle and it was going to get a MK4 as well. I like to have the exact same scope on all my rifles for obvious reasons, but maybe it's time to throw down some real cash on a US Optics or S&B. I have had it with companies that insist on hurting this country and this economy by outsourcing AMERICAN JOBS.

Terry thanks for the great post. BTW, I just put 2 pod locs on my rifles and I love them. I'll be getting a couple more to outfit the rest of my bipods.

-Patrick
J2T

Edited to add: I wish US Optics would make another run of MST-100'S!!!!!
 
#80
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just sent a scope back to Junkopold because it wouldn't hold it's point of impact. The damn thing almost beat me home. Enclosed was a nice note saying that there were "No defects found", hmmm so why doesn't it hold the point of impact still? ...</div></div>
I have hundreds of guns, ~50 scopes, they are all incomplete gunsmithing projects, constantly swapping parts.
One recurrent theme is loose scope mounts with respect to the receiver.
a) Scopes are generally reliable.
b) Scope rings to scope connections are generally reliable.
c) Scope rings to mounts connections are generally reliable, if you remember to tighten them.
d) Scope mount to receiver connections are NOT generally reliable.
When I troubleshoot my own guns for inaccuracy, half the time the problem is the mount to receiver connection has loose screws.
The same ratio is true for me helping strangers at the range [I am the old guy with the tool box].
The mounts seem to vibrate loose with recoil, thermal cyclic creep, or any theory you want.
I like to epoxy bed the mounts to the receiver [with alignment fixturing for two piece mounts][with release agent on the receiver so the action wrench still fits].
I like to clean the oil from the male and female threads with Alcohol, dry them, coat them with Loctite 242, and torque the screws.
A good indicator for this problem is two holes touching on the target, then two holes way over there, then two holes way over there...

What does it all mean?
Half the time I get lousy groups, I have a screw loose
smile.gif

While you have the scope off, check the tightness of the mount screws.
 
#81
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they could provide that basic scope in an affordable price range but have made the decision not to.</div></div>

That's EVERYTHING.

The only way American labor can present itself competitively with third world dumps is to sell the house and move into a grass hut. Even minimum wage won't cut it.

Several companies have emerged here and Britian assembling Chicom and Jap glass for a third the price. Leupold has CHOSEN to cash in on the 8-year-old-girl-chained-to-a-sewing-machine global labor market and pocket the difference. Understand that. The only "global" market is labor. Otherwise one country could not bankrupt the planet by defaulting 10% of it's mortgages. 10,000% mark-up is just too much for most of us to resist.
 
#82
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I too am a Leupold hater these day's. I used to like the Mark 4 because they are light. My biggest gripe with them is they allow about a 5 deg. cant in the retical! And it seems like at least 1/3 of the Mark 4's I bought had this problem. So, from now on, it's IOR & NF for me.
 
#83
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I find it ironic that the sponsor I see on this thread is Leupold, and they must have outsourced their advertising to China as well.... they are advertising a "Huge Spo<span style="font-weight: bold">i</span>tting scopes sale"!
 
#84
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I have three Leupolds but they are older ones and I love em and they are very reliable. Newest one is a MK4 and I don't have any problems with it maintaining accuracy. It's on my SWAT rifle and gets it's workout. However, I don't think the "glass" is NEAR what the previous ones are or were. Shooting with my buddy "Bronco" who is running several USO's I am amazed at the "glass" quality side by side with em. I am leaning strongly towards my next scope of a USO. Sacrificing quality for $, isn't really an option when you're aiming at a live target and have to start wondering....................
 
#85
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Somebody who knows "somebody" at Leupy needs to forward this thread to them. I would hate to see Leupy completely lose it.

They offer a very important product in todays market. There arent a ton of options around 1K. Everything is either cheap or expensive.

I have had several MKIV's and all have been as good as any scope I own or have owned. Bought another MKIV, used, last week. A 6.20x50. I am hoping it will serve as well as every other one I have owned, but I am beginning to get worried about the company.

They need to make sure they have the right type of person running the show. With companies like USO and Premier listening to and addressing the end users needs, Leupy had better get focused.
 
#86
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Everything is being made over seas. In china, 1$ an hour is freakin awesome! Just saw a documentary on this vary subject. It focused on some American companies(like Briggs and Straton) that are now made completely over seas, and how many jobs it takes from Americans.
They make more money and keep prices the same.

Everyone's about a dollar today. No ones willing to work hard, and charge as little as possible to stay afloat.
 
#87
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Terry Cross</div><div class="ubbcode-body">


I feel like I just cussed out my own Grandma. I'm going to go act ashamed now.

Bitching and moaning finally subsiding. I just need one of Bolt Rippers spritual and uplifting sermons to heal my wounded soul.

TC

</div></div>



....in the beginning,....there were sticks and stones.....
 
#88
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somebody who knows "somebody" at Leupy needs to forward this thread to them. I would hate to see Leupy completely lose it.

They offer a very important product in todays market. There arent a ton of options around 1K. Everything is either cheap or expensive.

I have had several MKIV's and all have been as good as any scope I own or have owned. Bought another MKIV, used, last week. A 6.20x50. I am hoping it will serve as well as every other one I have owned, but I am beginning to get worried about the company.

They need to make sure they have the right type of person running the show. With companies like USO and Premier listening to and addressing the end users needs, Leupy had better get focused. </div></div>

What part of Leupold doesn't care what you think, don't you get. They know, they've been told in person, they listen and then dismiss.

Besides, given Leupold's track record with this site, they'd probably just try to threaten me with a few lawyers, which wouldn't be the first time.
 
#89
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hydro556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somebody who knows "somebody" at Leupy needs to forward this thread to them. I would hate to see Leupy completely lose it.

They offer a very important product in todays market. There arent a ton of options around 1K. Everything is either cheap or expensive.

I have had several MKIV's and all have been as good as any scope I own or have owned. Bought another MKIV, used, last week. A 6.20x50. I am hoping it will serve as well as every other one I have owned, but I am beginning to get worried about the company.

They need to make sure they have the right type of person running the show. With companies like USO and Premier listening to and addressing the end users needs, Leupy had better get focused. </div></div>

What part of Leupold doesn't care what you think, don't you get. They know, they've been told in person, they listen and then dismiss.

Besides, given Leupold's track record with this site, they'd probably just try to threaten me with a few lawyers, which wouldn't be the first time. </div></div>

What a shame they have the ability to be an industry leader and they piss it away for a handful of shiny beads.
 
#91
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

I can't believe they have the balls to advertise here and not respond to this post. They must be doing this for the bailout money because I see them losing customers one at a time. Doesn't sound like much til you add them up at the end of the day. If it doesn't say "Made In America" it's not worth having.
 
#92
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's all about the bottom dollar at Leupold. </div></div>

That's called being a business. If it's not about the bottom dollar then you won't be in business very long.
 
#93
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

FYI, NONE of the ads, Advertise here... its Google Adsense and has nothing to do with advertising here as a company. Leupold has never supported the site, well one time a 3rd party gave a scope in their name after they reigned several times.

The ads are a completely separate issue, don't confuse them with site sponsors. Google ad sense simply reads the threads and pulls the relevant ad based on their list of Google advertisers... we just use Google.
 
#94
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Yes, we all understand that. But when sacrifice quality by shipping your work overseas and still raise the price of your now substandard product is what is getting to the people. Leupold really hasn't brought anything new and revolutionary to the market lately. Seems like they are copying what other optic manufacturers doing. Case in point, their "new" 1-4 variable AR based optics....
 
#95
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

Leupold is way behind the curve for tactical shooters, with a very limited number of scopes available with FFP reticles, none of which has an illuminated FFP reticle, and only one scope with milliradian clicks, and that one in 0.05 mils, rather than 0.1 mil.

So, Leupold needs to work hard just to catch up.

They have nothing I want to buy. Perhaps they don't care.
 
#96
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reelman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's all about the bottom dollar at Leupold. </div></div>

That's called being a business. If it's not about the bottom dollar then you won't be in business very long. </div></div>

Not entirely. I don't think USO or GAP would have the reputations they do if they cared more about money than quality.

There's being successful, and there's being greedy.
 
#97
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reelman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's all about the bottom dollar at Leupold. </div></div>

That's called being a business. If it's not about the bottom dollar then you won't be in business very long. </div></div>

Not entirely. I don't think USO or GAP would have the reputations they do if they cared more about money than quality.

There's being successful, and there's being greedy. </div></div>

You mention two of the most expensive makers of there represenative product line. Yes they care about quality but they also make a good amount of money from making the best out there, if they didn't make money they wouldn't be around very long.
 
#98
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sign of the times! Very sad; but if someone was kind enough to direct them to this thread..... You'd be amazed at the results sometimes! </div></div>

You would think someone from their Tactical line/division would be on here, but they are not. I don't think they want to hear it, or can change things if they wanted to. Too bad. I will not spend my money with them.

Jack
 
#99
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

My current Leupold line up includes:

(1) Mk4 16x
(1) Mk4 10x
(2) M1 LR
(1) M3 LR

All optics have the oval mil-dots...most of these scopes I bought from Premier Reticles back in the day when they had the oval mil-dots installed on them (sans the M3 which came on my Mk11 Mod 0). I think my most recent one I bought back in '02. I think I have avoided the recent glut of Leupold....have not bought a recent Leupold nor do I intend to. Luckily my older ones run fine and I will continue to use them.

During a recent class I saw a current production M3's windage knob fail - basically backed out of the main housing. Guess this was the second one from one of our work rifles that has failed.
 
#100
Re: Totally disgusted with Leupold

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reelman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You mention two of the most expensive makers of there represenative product line. Yes they care about quality but <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">they also make a good amount of money from making the best out there</span></span>, if they didn't make money they wouldn't be around very long. </div></div>

That is exactly right and that is exactly what <span style="font-weight: bold">Leupold does not do</span>. The two businesses cited per above make some of the best out there. Leupold ceased doing that years ago. They are no longer distinguished in that aspect.

Absolutely, business is about making money. You have to make a decision about the long term health and ability to maintain that business. If you are selling food products, medical supplies or key tactical equipment, what responsibilities come with delivering to that market? Where is the balance of profitability and duty to your industry segment? How are you going to define yourself, not only now but 10 years from now?

I do not want Leupold to go out of business nor do I want them to lay workers off or loose market share. However Leupold and other companies like them should look past the end of their profits and realize what they are positioning not only themselves for but many of their customers, many being key L.E. and military entities.

Today, it is just a case of so - so product quality/design at extremely good profit levels. Tomorrow it will be, sooner or later, a case of getting the lid slammed shut on 95% of their sources due to a multinational pissing contest in the Pacific. Part of good business is having a long term strategic plan to ensure the health of your company. They have most certainly lost those pages from their founders archives.
 
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