Ukraine war Bullshit.

i'm sure our deep state intel workers here will love this one.

i wonder whether screwing around with the Russians during their Afghan adventure wasn't maybe a real bad idea. i think we paid a high price for that,maybe even 9/11. might have cost us 20 years of blood,treasure and hurt our int'l standing (which i think is unimportant). arming and training Muslim terrorists was a bad idea i think. IF the Russians took over in Afghanistan,they would have been in a 20 year war like us not to their benefit. prob been Indians and Pak's prob then.
i have to wonder what the payback might be in regards to Ukraine.
 
propaganda/conspiracy or sad thruth?


All-Ukrainian Association of Companies for International Employment chief Vasily Voskoboinik appeared on state television in February to push for mass migration, saying, “According to estimates by the International Organization for Migration”—a United Nations agency that preaches about immigration being “inevitable, desirable, and necessary”—” and the International Labour Organization, we will need 8.2 million workers.”
 
IMO the only true war/military intervention that was justifiable by the US since WW2 was Iraq/Kuwait. A coalition was formed, objective was clear and an end result/exit was planned and executed.

Until you realize actually none of it was justified.
It was all a setup
Sadam asked the US State department if we had any opinion on his dispute with Kuwait being the base for Dick's company stealing Iraq oil.
Our State department told him, hey we don't care, do whatever you want...
So his plan was to fix the situation by resolving something the British did to guarantee constant strife.

Then we got all upset and mad and such.

But it was just the start of the plan to turn the middle east into a giant mess because that's what Israel wanted so they can eventually push for their Greater Israel.

Syria just fell and soon probably Lebanon will be nice pickings as well so Israel can grab all it wants.
 
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But it was just the start of the plan to turn the middle east into a giant mess because that's what Israel wanted so they can eventually push for their Greater Israel.

My bubbanalysis screams that the Wesleyclarkistan grocery list makes perfect sense now! :ROFLMAO:

Somalia and Sudan were shoehorned into the original plan just to create space for turfing the Palestinians to!
 
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Until you realize actually none of it was justified.
It was all a setup
Sadam asked the US State department if we had any opinion on his dispute with Kuwait being the base for Dick's company stealing Iraq oil.
Our State department told him, hey we don't care, do whatever you want...
So his plan was to fix the situation by resolving something the British did to guarantee constant strife.

Then we got all upset and mad and such.

But it was just the start of the plan to turn the middle east into a giant mess because that's what Israel wanted so they can eventually push for their Greater Israel.

Syria just fell and soon probably Lebanon will be nice pickings as well so Israel can grab all it wants.
The Ramaila oil reservoir naturally flows into Kuwait in the border regions, like an underground lake. The slant drilling claim was BS, made by Saddam.

The other claim was Kuwait(along with others) were over producing according to a Opec agreement and Saddam claimed was keeping the price lower than they needed to pay back war loans which were impoverishing the country. They owed Kuwait around 7 Billion in loans and were getting further in the hole on the interest. Kuwait would not forgive the loan.

While the UN deciding to "save" Kuwait sounds noble, I still question was the fall out worth it.

Fast Forward to 2025... whats the fall out from Ukraine going to be?
 
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The more you go toward west worse is. Problem are external agencies that are “influencing public opinion” aka woke propaganda since 91 but has gotten progressively worse. We have an internal problem which i’ve written about that there are people here who are clueless and want to be a part of this advertised west and unable yo understand the propaganda. Hence you have got a ton of useful idiots who think imported human shit is good, Trump is bad and pinnacle of life is eating take away fucking anything that has a hole or pole and material trinkets should be in abundance. Much like your type of woke idiot.
World problem (at least in the developed world) are those creatures which under current political systems (more or less) due to their gullibility and naivety and idiocy enable various powerful entities to easily make “supranational” policy viable and global. How to solve problem of these NPCs is yet to be found as modern people have no stomach for old proven methods.
 
The more you go toward west worse is. Problem are external agencies that are “influencing public opinion” aka woke propaganda since 91 but has gotten progressively worse. We have an internal problem which i’ve written about that there are people here who are clueless and want to be a part of this advertised west and unable yo understand the propaganda. Hence you have got a ton of useful idiots who think imported human shit is good, Trump is bad and pinnacle of life is eating take away fucking anything that has a hole or pole and material trinkets should be in abundance. Much like your type of woke idiot.
World problem (at least in the developed world) are those creatures which under current political systems (more or less) due to their gullibility and naivety and idiocy enable various powerful entities to easily make “supranational” policy viable and global. How to solve problem of these NPCs is yet to be found as modern people have no stomach for old proven methods.
Problem is comfort, as long as people are somewhat comfortable and entertained, they will follow whatever they think enables that.
Cut power and internet for a week, and heads start rolling.
 
a bit OT but...just finished 500 pages of Iraqi hx. largely a hx of Islam as well. my ? is what was the Brit reason for separating Kuwait out from Iraq after ww1? the reason is unclear to me and i can't find a real explanation anywhere. i assume that it is oil related. there is a hx of Iraqi agitation about that. it's being separate and ind country actually backed by some Arab orgs. so it seems that tension there has a lengthy hx.
any solid info?
 
a bit OT but...just finished 500 pages of Iraqi hx. largely a hx of Islam as well. my ? is what was the Brit reason for separating Kuwait out from Iraq after ww1? the reason is unclear to me and i can't find a real explanation anywhere. i assume that it is oil related. there is a hx of Iraqi agitation about that. it's being separate and ind country actually backed by some Arab orgs. so it seems that tension there has a lengthy hx.
any solid info?
Kuwait became Kuwait in 1756.

1899 Brits gained control of their foregin affairs and became a protectorate of the Brits during WW1, from the Ottomans.

Oil was not discovered until the late 1930’s at which time Iraq started make claims on Kuwait.
Remember Turkeys position on Desert Storm? They would not get involved.
 
According to Groc:
Kuwait was separated from Iraq due to a combination of historical, colonial, and political factors rather than a single definitive event. The roots of this separation trace back to the late 19th and early 20th centuries, shaped largely by British influence and the decline of Ottoman control.
Historically, Kuwait was a small trading port and fishing village on the Persian Gulf, loosely under the administration of the Ottoman Empire as part of the Basra Vilayet, which also included modern-day southern Iraq. However, Kuwait’s local rulers, the Al-Sabah family, exercised significant autonomy. In 1899, fearing Ottoman centralization or potential rival European influence, Sheikh Mubarak Al-Sabah signed an agreement with Britain, making Kuwait a British protectorate. In exchange for military protection and support, Britain gained control over Kuwait’s foreign affairs. This marked the beginning of Kuwait’s distinct path from the territories that would later form Iraq.
After World War I, the Ottoman Empire collapsed, and Britain redefined the region’s borders under the mandate system. The 1922 Treaty of Uqair, negotiated by British High Commissioner Sir Percy Cox, formalized the boundaries between Kuwait, Iraq (then under British mandate), and Saudi Arabia. Iraq’s borders were drawn to encompass the former Ottoman provinces of Baghdad, Basra, and Mosul, while Kuwait remained a separate entity under British protection. The Al-Sabah rulers retained their authority, and Kuwait’s status as a distinct entity was solidified, partly to serve British strategic interests, including access to the Gulf and later oil.
Iraq, upon gaining independence in 1932, periodically claimed Kuwait, arguing it was historically part of the Basra region and that British delineation was artificial. However, Kuwait’s separate development continued, reinforced by its oil wealth and international recognition. In 1961, Kuwait gained full independence from Britain. Iraq, under General Abdul Karim Qasim, immediately threatened to annex it, prompting a British military response and eventual Arab League intervention to secure Kuwait’s sovereignty. The United Nations and most of the international community recognized Kuwait as a separate state, cementing its status.
In short, Kuwait’s separation from Iraq resulted from British colonial policies, strategic agreements, and the Al-Sabah dynasty’s autonomy, formalized through treaties and upheld by international support, despite Iraq’s occasional claims rooted in Ottoman-era administrative ties.
 
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ok. knew it was a protectorate. my impression was that before 20th cent it was not a separate "country". celebrate nationhood in like 1961? the concept of nationality vs ethnicity or religion or even tribe were the defining consideration pre 20th cent. it seems all over the ME. the Ottoman involvement in Iraq was long standing and pretty confusing. Turks lost a lot of land post ww1 which seems to have led to a lot of dealing at Versailles. so,setting Kuwait apart maybe to do with Churchill's trying to save $ after ww1? Brits were broke. on a map could sure be a part of Iraq. Saddam was interested in the $ it seems. anyway just asking stuff.
 
Well we haven't seen the bag over the head aproach in Ukraine probably because by now everyone has eyes on the back of the head


Typicaly its 3-4 on one MMA style
 
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for starters Russia penetrated our gov before ww2. that Clinton,Obama and Biden were bought and paid for is about right. actually they were on several non US payrolls. that is academic and is or should be well known. your Yanukovych take is about opposite of several other's take. that gets down to who one believes. that Putin is a corrupt,brutal dictator is also obvious. also,that he has strong domestic support. must be a Russian thing,so did Stalin and Lenin.
that Trump 1 had control of Putin may be true,but i don't think so. like i asked,what could he do beyond economic plays and bluffing? for that matter,what can he do now?
your claim that Russia is weak militarily is pretty lame. maybe you think Lithuania and Moldova can take it out? we may be overestimating them but that gets down to a casualty tolerance. could Putin go to the channel if he wanted to? prob but expensive. does he seek to regain loses that were in the USSR's control? maybe/maybe not and maybe you are a mind reader. there is good evidence that Russia's economy and industrial capacity is well advanced > '22. are they incompetent vis a vis US military? maybe. maybe we can turn them into ash. they only have to hit us with about 1% of their 1600 nucs to make that a bad trade. JFK figured that out and passed on the chance. our current war mongers don't seem concerned. maybe you aren't either.
this boils down to your being unwilling to lay out what you think we should have done since you say you disagree there. you also fail to commit to what should be done now. you also refuse to try and justify either of those. a lot of reasons stated elsewhere are: deflect Russia,save Europe,let Black Rock buy Ukraine,produce yet more corrupt billionaires,restock with new stuff,profit our MIC? the fact is the American people are not willing to go to war over any place in Europe. ie except the "i stand with Ukraine" crowd and our very own MIC. there wasn't anything in Europe in 1917 worth 1 American life or 1 American dollar and there hasn't been anything sense then. that we have places for our effort and $s here is obvious.
all bean breeze anyway as i don't think you are in charge and i know i'm not.
If Russia was militarily powerful, the simple introduction of Javelin Anti-Tank Guided Missiles should not have become a strategic asset for Ukraine in the 2022 invasion (which were sent my Trump from 2018-2019), but they turned out to be of significant strategic value.

Another way to know Russia is weak is by looking at the fact they haven’t taken significant ground, compared with The Great War and World War II. The lines have barely moved and we have watched a stalemate over the past 3 years. It’s one of the most militarily-wasteful campaigns in all of warfare, with nothing to show for it from the aggressor but dead bodies and T54s being pulled from ancient storage to replace T72s that were turned into smoldering scrap metal in the first year of the war.

Russia would have been more powerful or perceived as such had Putin achieved his strategic goal of conquering and taking Kiev. Then he could have staged on the borders to the West, annexed Moldova, while causing anxiety within Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, and Finland.

Remember Biden was going to extract Zelensky to open up Kiev for Putin, leaving it leaderless. That was Biden’s job, which Zelensky did not play along with. With the weapons Trump sent back during Poroshenko’s term, Ukraine was able to deny Putin’s overall strategic objective, causing much consternation and loss of Russian war material and manpower, while embarrassing Russia in the process.

Russia’s economy and industrial capacity is nowhere near advanced. They are not a value-added style of economy and industrial base, but one of low-skilled labor and exporting of raw materials. That’s the primary basis of Russian revenue.

Now Trump has to clean up Putin’s mess, while making it look like Putin is still strong because the alternates under Putin are far worse. For years we have watched Russian state media openly talk about nuking London, Washington D.C., etc. Because Putin wiped-out the older Oligarchs and intelligentsia who might threaten his reign, there isn’t anyone well-educated or tempered to rule Russia with a stable geopolitical posture.

I would have never thought of the Trump proposal to invest in mineral extraction in Ukraine. I come from the defense sector, so everything looks like a nail when you’re a hammer. Since we have no real trade with Russia, there aren’t many levers to pull. So far, Trump is far more adept at managing this than any other US politician I could imagine.
 
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Blah blah

Another way to know Russia is weak is by looking at the fact they haven’t taken significant ground, compared with The Great War and World War II. The lines have barely moved and we have watched a stalemate over the past 3 years. It’s one of the most militarily-wasteful campaigns in all of warfare, with nothing to show for it from the aggressor but dead bodies and T54s being pulled from ancient storage to replace T72s that were turned into smoldering scrap metal in the first year of the war.

Blah blah
I guess you haven't heard of Paschendale.
 
Two motor rifle and part of an air assault brigade to take a city of three million people.
Those were to seize the Hostomel Airport, from which Il-76s could then land and pour out men and equipment from.

iu


That’s establishing an air head, which they failed to do. Once their air head attempt was repelled and the armored columns stopped dead in their tracks by Javelins, they lost the momentum and didn’t have a basic contingency plan to follow other than firing more cruise missiles in frustration.
 
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Putin achieved his strategic goal of conquering and taking Kiev.
I’m not so sure that was his strategic goal. The depth simply wasn’t there to seize that much DUT. Task fix Ukrainian forces in the north. Purpose, enable success in the South, the real main effort, which seems to have been successful.
 
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Problem with most people is they are unable to listen what anyone says. Modern NPC or borderline NPC simply has a picture of the world in his head and makes everything and anything conform to that picture as much as he can (aka how much power he/she has) and in case such a person has no power "it" simply escapes to "its" own world and makes shit up and keeps parroting "its" shit unable to muster strength or brain power to redraw its vision of the world.
Russians have been crystal clear about their strategic goals in Ukraine and after 3 years one can say that they've mostly achieved what they set (and said) out to do. Of course there are ups/downs as with everything but generally Ukropland is being effectively denazified, EU pushed into irrelevance, US severely drained of resources (though major factor here is US fifth column and their senseless actions that hurt US more than Russia) and spread wide and thin. Considering "tremblings" of the EU bureaucracy one might get a feeling that in a few months/years most of the EU population would welcome Red Army Russian Army in their states as alternative (as ironic as it can be) is unpalatable to any normal and moral human being residing in EU (not saying they are a majority but polarization is accelerating as more and more people realize the scope of evil). This western political class and "elite" is probably one of the most insidious manifestation of evil in human history.
 
Those were to seize the Hostomel Airport,
You are planning to support multiple Corps by a airport with a single runway, little space for landed aeroplanes and almost no storage/unloading facilities.

The Russians committed around 10 divisions in total, the entire northern part of Ukraine only saw, at best, 29% of that force.

Hostomel airport plus the one shitty road trough the marshes was sufficient to supply ~3 Brigades, or what the Russians used.
 
New word.

Tellhole- some one presents skewed information like its facts, pretending they are the authority on the matter, yet are completely full of shit. Similar to propaganda or government funded news.

Used in a sentence, Every one on the hide knew the tellhole was full of shit, yet they indulged him anyway.
 
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ROFL since Gas was turned off , little green men started crawling trough the gas pipes :eek:

A fierce battle is underway: a breakthrough in Sudzha along a gas pipeline in the Kursk region - parts from the enemy.

"Today, a breakthrough of enemy infantry was discovered in the area of the city of Sudzha - the Russians used a gas pipeline to transfer an assault company unnoticed by drones, and wedged themselves into our battle formations," writes Ukrainian Butusov.

We are talking about the underground gas pipeline "Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod", through which Russia supplied gas to Europe through Ukraine until January 1, 2025. The diameter of one pipe is 1.4 meters.

"Political motives are clear to everyone, but there must be purely military logic. Now we have lost our advantageous position in Kursk region - both tactical and operational. Solutions are needed," Butusov writes.

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