Union upset over Keystone Pipeline cancellation

[AngryKoala]

What geographical location is this where general union laborers rate is $81.00/HR. and in what Trade?

Can't even make that sucking dicks in the back alley.

 

[Blutroop]

Y’all are all so adorable arguing over unions still while gov is still preparing their blitzkrieg. Is your union gonna fight for your guns?

 

[theLBC]

seems like some folks are victims of union pension plans that have become sort of ponzi schemes where they cannot be sustained without an ever growing number of members to feed it.
personally, i do sort of regret not going into government or union work so i had a pension to look forward to, even if i had retired early to do something else.

 

[candyx]

What geographical location is this where general union laborers rate is $81.00/HR. and in what Trade?

This is the current rate they have a increase due this spring , NJ General Highway Laborer Rate $47.50 Benefit $32.50 = $80.03 The $32.50 gets paid straight to the hall for them to cover the workers benefits and pensions.

Lay pipe,build forms,pour concrete,paving and general construction.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

seems like some folks are victims of union pension plans that have become sort of ponzi schemes where they cannot be sustained without an ever growing number of members to feed it.
personally, i do sort of regret not going into government or union work so i had a pension to look forward to, even if i had retired early to do something else.

Personally I'm glad I was able to stick it out.
30 years working out of a IBT hiring hall.

We were 100% call by name with the company doing the calls.
We had no seniority, no paid vacation, no paid holidays and could be laid off without reason at anytime.

I never had any "Juice" although many did. (Most on here won't know what juice is so explain a little juice is where you have member within management helping you get work and keep you working when others were laid off).

Thankfully the abilty to be a Freight Forman,CDL,Rigger and certified operator up to 80,000lb lift Company "worked me".

 

[theLBC]

Personally I'm glad I was able to stick it out.
30 years working out of a IBT hiring hall.

We were 100% call by name with the company doing the calls.
We had no seniority, no paid vacation, no paid holidays and could be laid off without reason at anytime.

I never had any "Juice" although many did. (Most on here won't know what juice is so explain a little juice is where you have member within management helping you get work and keep you working when others were laid off).

Thankfully the abilty to be a Freight Forman,CDL,Rigger and certified operator up to 80,000lb lift Company "worked me".

i think if i had a choice being in long beach, i would be a longshoreman.

 

[Steve_In_29]

you can probably be trained for a job on a solar panel line in 3 days tops, including the 2 days for HR orientation and sensitivity training.

I haven't noticed a lot of solar panel factories springing up in coal country.

 

[Steve_In_29]

You must be referring to the Public Sector Union Employee.

It applies to ANY union employee. If management doesn't do its job, the poorly performing employee will be protected by the union and isn't going anywhere.

 

[candyx]

It applies to ANY union employee. If management doesn't do its job, the poorly performing employee will be protected by the union and isn't going anywhere.

The Union Business Agents tries to get you good workers, they tell you up front we know we have some bums just don't keep them but it still cost the contractor a days rate.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

It applies to ANY union employee. If management doesn't do its job, the poorly performing employee will be protected by the union and isn't going anywhere.

I just don't know what management you're referring to.
Company management, union management.

Any employee anywhere in violation of any contract is subject to disciplinary action for those violations.
Contrary to what some believe the company nor a union can pick and choose what employee to discipline for violations of company policy or violation of contract.

The lawsuit actions would be endless.

 

[theLBC]

I haven't noticed a lot of solar panel factories springing up in coal country.

here is what happens.
a relative or friend of some congressman or senator will apply for government grants and low interest loans to build a factory.
under the various bullshit green laws already existing, they will receive hundreds of millions of our tax dollars.
the building of the factory will be delayed because of environmental and zoning regulations, and the project will immediately incur cost overruns.
once most of the money is spent, the project will go belly up, with most of the friends and family having already gotten a big chunk of that money.
rinse and repeat.

 

[candyx]

here is what happens.
a relative or friend of some congressman or senator will apply for government grants and low interest loans to build a factory.
under the various bullshit green laws already existing, they will receive hundreds of millions of our tax dollars.
the building of the factory will be delayed because of environmental and zoning regulations, and the project will immediately incur cost overruns.
once most of the money is spent, the project will go belly up, with most of the friends and family having already gotten a big chunk of that money.
rinse and repeat.

Sounds like Jersey , state allocated I think it was 6 billion to build schools. Most of the property that was purchased was contaminated useless lots that schools couldn't be built on. Land Owners made a killing $$$$

 

[silentwoods]

yeah, boohoo. Fuck

What does my being "N Florida" have to do with anything? ...and what is brawndo?

"Winning" this argument seems more important to you than me, so I'll leave you with the last word. Buh, bye.

Oh don't go away now there stud.

I love retarded motherfuckers trying to talk all smart and shit.

It's a lot like watching AOC try to talk adult.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

Oh don't go away now there stud.

I love retarded motherfuckers trying to talk all smart and shit.

It's a lot like watching AOC try to talk adult.

I know just what you mean...

 

[EddieNFL]

I know just what you mean...

Me too.

 

[Dunraven]

here is what happens.
a relative or friend of some congressman or senator will apply for government grants and low interest loans to build a factory.
under the various bullshit green laws already existing, they will receive hundreds of millions of our tax dollars.
the building of the factory will be delayed because of environmental and zoning regulations, and the project will immediately incur cost overruns.
once most of the money is spent, the project will go belly up, with most of the friends and family having already gotten a big chunk of that money.
rinse and repeat.

remember all the 'green energy' companies that sprang up after obama was elected? $860 billion 'stimulus'. solyndra eg. they took the money, kicked back the requisite share to the dnc, then promptly declared bankruptcy. the money? just gone. bet those were 'good union jobs' too, for a little while.

 

[atepointer]

remember all the 'green energy' companies that sprang up after obama was elected? $860 billion 'stimulus'. solyndra eg. they took the money, kicked back the requisite share to the dnc, then promptly declared bankruptcy. the money? just gone. bet those were 'good union jobs' too, for a little while.

Solyndra and Tonopah were 2 of the worst ~ $1.2b flushed into the shitter after bankruptcy filings.

 

[rkgsmith]

Here in Maryland, Democrat stronghold of the east, our entire Democrat County Council is doing everything it can to smash the back of the Police Union. They are all for labor rights except when it is contrary to what they want.

 

[Davo308]

Here in Maryland, Democrat stronghold of the east, our entire Democrat County Council is doing everything it can to smash the back of the Police Union. They are all for labor rights except when it is contrary to what they want.

Just like Bernies campaign staff that he wouldnt let unionize.

 

[Davo308]

Clearly anyone that spent 15-30 years pipefitting or coal mining can build a solar panel. C’mon man!

Kamala told those unemployed miners they should get a.job reclaiming those mines today.

 

[EddieNFL]

Once I was past my early 20s, I took a different path FS1. I chose to train up in careers that did not require a Union to assure my wages were fair. It can suck to rely upon an intermediate, to assure you get reasonable treatment. If you need an intermediary, then you may be a replaceable cog.

Once trained, if I was unhappy with either my wages, or conditions, I would explain to my employer that they were at risk of me finding an alternative job. Some companies I left, were filing for bankruptcy within a year or two. They NEVER said "don't let the door hit you, where the Good Lord split you". Even back in my early 20s, I was seeing CNC and other automation show up in the places I worked in, and saw the handwriting on the wall (40 years ago). To have any security in the workforce, you need to have skills which are nearly impossible to replace.
If there are a hundred people (or more) in your state, which can adequately perform your job, you have no job security.

There is no question that LONG ago, companies would use violence to enforce their will upon workers... that day is long past. Still, in that time frame unions did make important strides. Once those changes were codified by actual law, the value of the unions was diminished. The remaining area where I believe Unions are quite good is simple; they remained one of the last bastions which assured their workers have a viable retirement, as versus a 401K program they *may* donate to. Even so, I have watched most major unions "sell-out" new member's retirement programs, so that the more senior members of the Union can retain their more luxurious retirement packages. The Unions it seems, are in the process of Consuming their Young.

Unions officials took the same path as politicians. It's no longer about service"; it's about lucrative careers. I agree with your opinion of Detroit, but I believe the big three did everything they could to help the unions succeed in knocking them off the pedestal.

 

[JeffLebowski]

meh. fuck those jobs. Time we made a real effort to move away from fossils. As someone who hunts in those states and who doesn't appreciate the corporate and high net worth encroachment and encapsulattion of public land, I'm glad about this. Zinky or whatever the fuck his name was was a cuck to corps who wanted to plunder our parks and hunting lands. Fuck them all i say!

Found the out of state guy that wants to tell the West how to run things.

 

[deersniper]

I think we should really give all of the blue states and demonrat cities what they want.
No gasoline, diesel, natural gas or anything that doesnt come from wind or solar.

And no food electricity or other products made with energy from those evil fossil fuels

 

[deersniper]

Bro if you really believe that. I got to say your lacking in some information. In non right to work states a union worker is one of the few tax payers than can provided solely for their family. So personally at 32 years old I can provided a decent living to my stay at home wife and three kids,as well as more recently my Mother who got laid off during the Rona BS. My friend who performs the same work for a non union company works 60 plus hours to my 40 and his wife has to continue to work to make their ends meet. As long as there are companies trying to cut wages to increase profits there will always be a need for unions, that is unless you belive the government will do a better job of protecting us. <Sarcasm. I haven't seen very many ethical companies out there have you? If there were ethical companies they were likely family owned and didn't survive this "epidemic."

What a crock. You sound like a socialist.


All the people that have to pay taxes / buy electric/ whatever project you do / have to work harder to pay for your non market wages extorted from the public.

So your wife can stay home while everyone else has to work harder to pay for another parasite

 

[deersniper]

I've never voted for a dem and never will. My local always pushes the dumb politics stuff.

I just want to say one fact in this thread about unions for all the ignorant people that have no idea what they are talking about.

Each year in this country 1200 people on average are killed on construction/industrial sites. Almost none of them are on union sites.

I've worked as a rat for a couple of years and 16 years union on a ton of different kind of sites. Coal power plants, nukes, refineries, Chem plants, food plants, etc..

I know when I step out of the truck in the morning now that there's a 99.999 percent chance that I'm going home to my family at the end of the day the same way I got there. I can't say that for any of my friends that are non union.

Great. Any job that can be exported, will be.

Between unions epa osha taxes regulation there won’t be any companies left.




Unions protect the slugs and kill jobs

 

[theLBC]

And no food electricity or other products made with energy from those evil fossil fuels

lol, fuck that.
there are still more patriots in california than 11 other small "red" states combined.
not that we couldn't feed ourselves.

 

[deersniper]

With the wages I make I've been able to let the wife stay home and raise our children, instead of a stranger, helped them out some as they got older, they're both an E-4 in different branches, and been able to donate money to charities, save money for us.

And everyone that buys electric from your plant gets to pay more. So their wife has to work and can’t stay home.

Because of your unions extortion.

It all adds up. Union and .gov parasites take a big chunk of money from people

 

[Bradu]

Great. Any job that can be exported, will be.

Between unions epa osha taxes regulation there won’t be any companies left.




Unions protect the slugs and kill jobs

I know everyone's experience varies with this, but I've seen more union people fired than I have non union. With road construction and the pipeline, either you could do the job or the boss sent you down the road. There were a few worthless fucks but they were usually the boss's buddy so they were untouchable.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

With a solar powered tractor?

lol, fuck that.
there are still more patriots in california than 11 other small "red" states combined.
not that we couldn't feed ourselves.

 

[theLBC]

With a solar powered tractor?

lol, you know the hypocrites would cave if they had to skip a meal.
they'd smuggle in oil from iran after they sell the ports to the chinamas (again).
besides, we provide 1/3 on the nations vegetables and 2/3 of the fruits and nuts.

*might be underestimating the "nuts".

 

[deersniper]

You "think" employers have an ethical responsibility?

Like the Chevrolet board who took a bailout from Obama, filed bankruptcy and killed their stock value btw, and the reniged on payment? And rather than fixing their business model, kept doing business the same way? Lol

40,000.00 per Chevy Volt sold subsidised?



Not to mention those well earned bonuses, nice ethics indeed.

I'd guess that was a union problem too.

If you believe upper management gives a shit about you, well, you'll figure it out eventually.

Lol

Yeah.

The same company that fired “workers” smoking pot and drinking in the parking lot then the Union got them their jobs and back wages ! Wtf

And yeah the tax payer bailed out gm to save those horse shit Union wages and pensions. Like how they screwed over the bonded shareholders to help the Union scum.

 

[BullGear]

The shutting down of the Keystone XL pipeline is a lot more than just union members losing their jobs. There are small towns from the border to well into the United States that will collapse with these working being there. From the town diners to the big box stores, they won't need as many employees, if they can stay open at all.

I can't imagine how many non-union employees will lose their jobs. The economic devastation will be astronomical. So while you're arguing about the merits of unions in 2021, just realize that REAL human being are being put out of work and they're in no position to build solar panels.

 

[theLBC]

The shutting down of the Keystone XL pipeline is a lot more than just union members losing their jobs. There are small towns from the border to well into the United States that will collapse with these working being there. From the town diners to the big box stores, they won't need as many employees, if they can stay open at all.

I can't imagine how many non-union employees will lose their jobs. The economic devastation will be astronomical. So while you're arguing about the merits of unions in 2021, just realize that REAL human being are being put out of work and they're in no position to build solar panels.

i heard 50k, but then the price of gas will also go up, and the only ones to benefit will be the rich liberals that make billions transporting oil by rail.
so how much more of that gasoline money will go there instead of other places, like dining out, toys or beer?

 

[ManUtdManiac]

Found the out of state guy that wants to tell the West how to run things.

I live the West. More importantly, I live in the US, and yeah, I want an environment worth having. Fuck fossil fuel, it's literally dead and I don't want to die with it. Holding on to legacy tech or operations for the sake of jobs is just poor management. Does it hurt? Sure. Have been where these guys might be finding themselves soon, sure. Did I figure a way out and do better. Yes. Can they? Up to them.

Viva la individual.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

So many women noises being made in here it's unreal.
Stop thinking with emotions and use a brain.

 

[AngryKoala]

I live the West. More importantly, I live in the US, and yeah, I want an environment worth having. Fuck fossil fuel, it's literally dead and I don't want to die with it. Holding on to legacy tech or operations for the sake of jobs is just poor management. Does it hurt? Sure. Have been where these guys might be finding themselves soon, sure. Did I figure a way out and do better. Yes. Can they? Up to them.

Viva la individual.

Better only shoot lead free ammo then.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

Better only shoot lead free ammo then.

I try my best. Sometimes though one only has legacy ammo to shoot.

 

[AngryKoala]

I try my best. Sometimes though one only has legacy ammo to shoot.

I'm just being an ass. The petrochemical industry isn't going away anytime soon for good reason. We do not possess the technology nor the manufacturing capacity to circumvent the benefits that petroleum provides. We are a long long ways away from that.

As a chemist I can appreciate the viewpoint on the environment but progress takes time and innovation.

 

[Downtown]

I live the West. More importantly, I live in the US, and yeah, I want an environment worth having. Fuck fossil fuel, it's literally dead and I don't want to die with it. Holding on to legacy tech or operations for the sake of jobs is just poor management. Does it hurt? Sure. Have been where these guys might be finding themselves soon, sure. Did I figure a way out and do better. Yes. Can they? Up to them.

Viva la individual.

Natural gas is a fossil fuel, yet the use of it for power generation has allowed for a very large drop in greenhouse gas emissions. Isn't that good for the environment? Non fossil fuel power sources aren't really environmentally neutral, you know. Plus, won't we continue to need oil for all the other uses, plastics, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, etc.? That will likely outlast just burning it for fuel. Surely you've seen the land use calculations that wind and solar would require to 100% replace all fossil fuel. Wouldn't be much left to hunt on.

 

[deersniper]

dude, we're humans, we can learn new shit. If you can't, then the world doesn't owe you a job just so you don't have to feel left out.

Learn to code. Or something. I've ended up doing something that had nothing to do with what I studied or trained in even 10 years ago. Life is not linear.

L O L

yet there are piles of Union and public sector positions that have long since been obsolete due to technological advances but the extortionists won’t let the positions be removed.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

Natural gas is a fossil fuel, yet the use of it for power generation has allowed for a very large drop in greenhouse gas emissions. Isn't that good for the environment? Non fossil fuel power sources aren't really environmentally neutral, you know. Plus, won't we continue to need oil for all the other uses, plastics, pharmaceuticals, chemicals, etc.? That will likely outlast just burning it for fuel. Surely you've seen the land use calculations that wind and solar would require to 100% replace all fossil fuel. Wouldn't be much left to hunt on.

YOu are right, not all fossil fuels are equal and not all non-fossil fuels are either good or, at present, efficient. But I'm also for the idea that we need to create a more concerted push towards discovering efficiencies without waiting for irreversible consequences manifesting themselves further, first.

 

[ManUtdManiac]

L O L

yet there are piles of Union and public sector positions that have long since been obsolete due to technological advances but the extortionists won’t let the positions be removed.

yeah, I'm against that bullshit too. Not a fan of unions, least of all public unions. Including police.

 

[deersniper]

Is Triangle Shirtwaist anecdotal? Is Pinkerton goons hired by Ford anecdotal? Are the abuses suffered by labor at the hands Corporations that inspired Unions anecdotal?

Labor was powerless against the powerful. So they turned to bad people (OrgCrime) to empower themselves. Because crime bosses were powerful too.

These are facts not anecdotes. Every worker is better off because of unions. That is a fact. And as the unions in America have declined. So have wages. Another fact.

Like them or not, all workers have benefitted from them. JMHO

And like epa / madd / etc they were needed at one time now they are off the rails over blown and destroying the host

 

[deersniper]

Here in Maryland, Democrat stronghold of the east, our entire Democrat County Council is doing everything it can to smash the back of the Police Union. They are all for labor rights except when it is contrary to what they want.

Fuck them.

They enforce everything gun law

But zero time for property crimes etc

 

[deersniper]

I live the West. More importantly, I live in the US, and yeah, I want an environment worth having. Fuck fossil fuel, it's literally dead and I don't want to die with it. Holding on to legacy tech or operations for the sake of jobs is just poor management. Does it hurt? Sure. Have been where these guys might be finding themselves soon, sure. Did I figure a way out and do better. Yes. Can they? Up to them.

Viva la individual.

Fossil is dead.

Ok what should replace it?

Nuke and hydro are the only viable ones.

Wind and solar are bs pipe dream wealth transfer schemes



Oh and lol at powering air craft , any real truck , any farm equipment with the unicorn farts



In re : pipeline closure
Oh and this isn’t about not using oil. This is about further enrichment of buffet et al. And sending some of Canada’s oil to Chyna

 

[AZ_Spot&Stalk]

No F's given if you voted for him and then lost your job. He told you he was shutting it down. He told you he's shutting down fracking.

 

[Davo308]

I'm just being an ass. The petrochemical industry isn't going away anytime soon for good reason. We do not possess the technology nor the manufacturing capacity to circumvent the benefits that petroleum provides. We are a long long ways away from that.

As a chemist I can appreciate the viewpoint on the environment but progress takes time and innovation.

As I understand it, fossil fuels are stored energy, like nuclear and hydro.

The result is consistant release of energy with the ability to retain any unneeded energy.

Wind and solar are sporadic, and unable to store a surplus of energy until its needed. Is that still correct?

 

[Major Wader]

I live the West. More importantly, I live in the US, and yeah, I want an environment worth having. Fuck fossil fuel, it's literally dead and I don't want to die with it. Holding on to legacy tech or operations for the sake of jobs is just poor management. Does it hurt? Sure. Have been where these guys might be finding themselves soon, sure. Did I figure a way out and do better. Yes. Can they? Up to them.

Viva la individual.

Fossil fuel is the only way to run the country. Solar never pays back what it costs to build. Same with wind. Both end their life cycle before paying back what it costs to build.

Nuclear, if any liberal would ever SHUT THE FUCK UP, has possibilities.

California already forces folks to turn off the fridge when they go to work. How would they support an increase in electric cars?

How do you plan to maintain the infrastructure without fossil fuels? Fossil fuels are not dead, they are not close to depletion, and they are the most portable energy dense solution.

We have spent a century building the fossil fuel infrastructure. Drive 30 minutes from your house in any direction, then report back to us how many fuel pumps you passed, and on the same route, how many high pressure hydrogen stations you saw, and how many electric car charging stations you saw. Remember to go during the day so your solar can recharge, and also remember that 95% of the global hydrogen supply is a byproduct of the oil refining process.

 

[Rem700ADL]

President Trump made the keystone pipeline possible

This apparently set the stage for the hiring of 'good union jobs'

The union turned coat, and supported Biden for pres.

Sleepy Joe promptly cancelled the pipeline by EO on day 1

Union members are upset at the loss of their jobs

And here's a BIG middlefinger to them

Why did they vote for the asshole then ?? The trade unions around here always voted for the Democrat.

 

[craigos]

President Trump made the keystone pipeline possible

This apparently set the stage for the hiring of 'good union jobs'

The union turned coat, and supported Biden for pres.

Sleepy Joe promptly cancelled the pipeline by EO on day 1

Union members are upset at the loss of their jobs

And here's a BIG middlefinger to them

Sucks to be them - morons for voting for Biden.