Rifle Scopes UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

[ReaperDriver]

I'm trying to troubleshoot something with my scope regarding total mils of up/down the scope has. I can't find any literature that gives the specs, so if you could indulge me - what is the total mils that your Falcon 5.5-25x50mm scope has by actually going all the way up and all the way down from your zero setting.

Right now - where mine is 100yd zero'd on a 20MOA base (EGW) - I have a total of 11.0 mils up and 9.0 mils down. I also have 10.8 left and 9.7 right from windage zero. Does this jive with what you guys have available?

What's driving this question is I've been shooting at 1000 yds a few times and I'm running out of mils available. I'm shooting 175 SMK at about 2580 fps and my ballistic programs (depending on which one I use) say I should be between about 11.2 and 12.0. Actual dope puts me at about 11.7. I know this because I dial in my max of 11.0 on the scope and then have to hold about an additional .7 with the mil-dot reticle. I would think the 5.5-25 Falcon should be able to dial enough mils to get me to 1K easily, so its dissappointing that I'm not able to get there and wanted to see if maybe my scope was messed up or if that was the norm for this model.

Thanks in advance.

 

[deadly0311]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

do you have a 20 MOA base? if not might get one of those and give you a little more elevation travel

 

[Dirtracer151]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Thats a little slow it seems for the 175 smks to reach 1k. Try working your loads up a little or run the 2156 155 SMKs. You can push them much faster. I was only using 9 mils in my 308 with them with the same scope at 1k

 

[velcroflyer]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

A little off topic, but any of you know which Butler Creek caps fit the 5-25x50?

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">do you have a 20 MOA base? if not might get one of those and give you a little more elevation travel </div></div>

Yep, see my OP.

 

[MTETM]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Just checked, my wife's pre-production model has 20.5 mils total elevation travel. She has 15 up and 5.5 down with a 100 yard zero. I think she has 15 moa off-set in her Burris sig. zee rings. I would check to make sure you do in fact have a 20 moa base, or double check the optic center on the scope....

 

[palle2612]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Got it on mine:
43 front (very tight) 19 rear..
Palle

 

[Dirtracer151]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: velcroflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A little off topic, but any of you know which Butler Creek caps fit the 5-25x50? </div></div>

19 for the eye and either a 43 (tight) or 44 (loose) for the obj

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Somethings not jiving. Sounds like your scope has the appropriate amount of total travel ~20mils. Your 20moa canted base should have given you back ~5.5mils of usable elevation. If everything works out that should give you ~5mils down, ~15mils up.

You didn't state what rifle this is. Is it possible that you installed the base backwards (canted in the wrong direction)? or your receiver is not flat?

Maybe take everything apart and put it back together being extra careful to insure everything mates up as is should.

Also double-check with EGW (ask them for the measurements) that your "20moa" base is actually canted, since it sounds like it's flat. Could be mismarked or mispackaged.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: buffybuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Somethings not jiving. Sounds like your scope has the appropriate amount of total travel ~20mils. Your 20moa canted base should have given you back ~5.5mils of usable elevation. If everything works out that should give you ~5mils down, ~15mils up.

You didn't state what rifle this is. Is it possible that you installed the base backwards (canted in the wrong direction)? or your receiver is not flat?

Maybe take everything apart and put it back together being extra careful to insure everything mates up as is should.

Also double-check with EGW (ask them for the measurements) that your "20moa" base is actually canted, since it sounds like it's flat. Could be mismarked or mispackaged. </div></div>

Yeah, its not making sense either. The gun is a Rem SPS-T .308. It is an EGW 20MOA base with Burris XTR Low rings. As I eyeball the base, it definitely LOOKs canted because the rear base is higher than the front. I'll see if I can post a pic from the side to show you. Here:

I had that in my album. I'll see if I can get a more specific shot from each side. But I agree, it appears that my scope is zero'd at about the center of the range of travel as if it has a flat base instead of a 20MOA base.

give me a min to take some more pics.....

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

The rear of every M700 base is taller than the front, since the rear receiver bridge is lower than the front receiver ring. It would be rather difficult to tell if the base has the correct cant since we're only talking about ~0.020" difference between a flat and canted base. It is also possible that your rear receiver wasn't machined/ground to spec and sits lower than it's suppose to. One way to check that is to take a new, quality base and mount it only using the front screws. If there's a gap between the base and the receiver at the rear, the rear receiver is out of spec and needs to be shimmed or bedded.

I don't know if you could do that now with your EGW base, since it may have been bent down to the receiver. When you unbolt it, it's unlikely that it will spring back straight.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Here's some more close up pics:

Buffy, any idea if you can tell from these pics? If not, anyone with an EGW 20MOA base - can you get your calipers out and see what the measurements are? I'm starting to suspect I got a flat base from SWFA by mistake.

 

[MTETM]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

The bottom of the EGW base will have the cant engraved on it. Take your mag out and look into the mag well, you should be able to see the engraving. The other idea is as Buffy stated, remove the scope and take the rear screws out and see if there is a gap at the rear of the base. I Bedding my EGW 20 moa base when I put it on my 700 action...

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Reaper,

From what I can see, I think that's a flat base. Looking at your Left side view, if you look at the ejection port and the ejection port relief in the base, the cut-out is very rectangular. If the base is canted that cut-out should look very slightly trapezoidal.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Thanks guys, I'll check out the base and see if I can see the engraving.

I went back and dug up my invoice from SWFA and compared the sku # to their website and it indeed was ordered as a 20 MOA base. A flat base would totally explain why I am having this much problem at 1K.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Well so much for that idea....

I wonder if it could be marked wrong?

Edit: I haven't taken the base apart yet, but I stuck the calipers on the front and back of the ejector opening and its roughly the same height on the front and back. I'm not sure how much a 20MOA base will differ from the fore/aft ends of the ejector port but it seems to be pretty symetrical.

I guess I just need to pull it all apart and actually measure the base and get the actual specs from EGW to compare.

 

[tox]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

sorry to be a little off topic but this thread just answered a few questions I had.

I have the rem 700 SPS with the 5R in .223 and will be ordering the exact same setup you have

EGW 20 MOA
burris xtr rings(now I know that the low's work perfectly)
and the Falcon 5-25x50

 

[MTETM]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I wonder if it could be marked wrong?

I guess I just need to pull it all apart and actually measure the base and get the actual specs from EGW to compare.</div></div>

I would imagine you will find the base is correct.
I would pull the scope and do as Buffy suggested, remove the rear scope base screws and see if there is a slight gap between the receiver and the base. If there is, then simply bed the gap with some JB weld quik-set or Devcon. It will keep the base from "flattening" out when you tork the rear screws and you will see the 20MOA effect.

Good luck

 

[davidsims]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Have you looked through the scope while you are adjusting the elevation? I have a Falcon Menace 10x42 and it has more elevation adjustment on the turrent than the scope actually has. I have 1 full turn after actual elevation stops.

David

 

[TimResin]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

yeah my 4-14 goes for over a full turn past too. Odd thing is I have the same exact problem. The 4-14 have 22mil elevation I only have 10.5 up with a 20moa base I called up the dealer I bought it from and he said that was dead on for a 100yd zero. Just the way they are made it seems. If you want more travel shim the base or shoot hotter loads.

 

[palle2612]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Right now - where mine is 100yd zero'd on a 20MOA base (EGW) - I have a total of 11.0 mils up and 9.0 mils down. I also have 10.8 left and 9.7 right from windage zero. Does this jive with what you guys have available?

What's driving this question is I've been shooting at 1000 yds a few times and I'm running out of mils available. I'm shooting 175 SMK at about 2580 fps and my ballistic programs (depending on which one I use) say I should be between about 11.2 and 12.0. Actual dope puts me at about 11.7. I know this because I dial in my max of 11.0 on the scope and then have to hold about an additional .7 with the mil-dot reticle. I would think the 5.5-25 Falcon should be able to dial enough mils to get me to 1K easily, so its dissappointing that I'm not able to get there and wanted to see if maybe my scope was messed up or if that was the norm for this model.

Thanks in advance. </div></div>

Just played a little with mine

Scope that is...
Got almost the same set up as yours.. .308 Howa 1500 / Falcon 5.5-25x50 / Roedale 20 MOA base.. I got 10.4 up and 9.0 down, gets me to 850 meters (930 yards) on my lapua scenar 167 gr. I can go 900 meters (985 yards) with 155 gr. Lapuar scenars..
Wonder why!! Think 40 MOA base would come in handy one day..

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Well, I finally pulled the scope and base off and measured the base from the specs supplied by SWFA (thanks to them for that, btw!) and it definitely is a 20MOA base. I looked at the base like MTETM suggested and I could not tell if there is a discernable gap that might cause the rear to get pulled down to the receiver, taking away the 20MOA. The base seems to sit on the receiver pretty well, even when not torqued down. SO I don't think thats the problem.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the front ring rode up somehow on the pic rail when it was torqued down, causing a flattening effect to the overall scope mount. Here are some pics of the bottom of the rings and I did notice that both front and back rings had a pretty good indentation from the "teeth of the picitinny rail gounged into the bottom. Has anyone seen this phenominon? Did I torque the rings down too tightly to the base and caused this?

And this is the base just sitting on the receiver without the screws installed. Do I still need to bed it?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Install the front screws in the base, (no rear screws) then look at the back for a gap.

Dude, is that moss growing on your stuff??

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Dude, is that moss growing on your stuff??

</div></div>

Nope, that's our fine desert sand. KInda like brown talcum powder. Its in everything.

 

[GunGuru727]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Clean your rifle man damn. Dont know whats going on there Haha

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I finally pulled the scope and base off and measured the base from the specs supplied by SWFA (thanks to them for that, btw!) and it definitely is a 20MOA base. I looked at the base like MTETM suggested and I could not tell if there is a discernable gap that might cause the rear to get pulled down to the receiver, taking away the 20MOA. The base seems to sit on the receiver pretty well, even when not torqued down. SO I don't think thats the problem.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the front ring rode up somehow on the pic rail when it was torqued down, causing a flattening effect to the overall scope mount. Here are some pics of the bottom of the rings and I did notice that both front and back rings had a pretty good indentation from the "teeth of the picitinny rail gounged into the bottom. Has anyone seen this phenominon? Did I torque the rings down too tightly to the base and caused this?

And this is the base just sitting on the receiver without the screws installed. Do I still need to bed it?

</div></div>

Bump - any comments on the indentations on the bottom of the rings? Normal or not?

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Here is an easy solution. Buy a 30 MOA base and use it instead.

Just because one rifle set up may have 15 up with a 20 MOA base does not mean they all will. The back of your receiver may have got polished a little more during finishing and changed the height a little. Or the front a little less. Or your scope erector not center properly. When mechanically centered by your turrets it may not really be centered.

I had a similar issue with my 700 VS and an IOR 3-18x. I couldn't quite reach 1000 yards with my 20 MOA base. Put on a 30 MOA base and problem was solved.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I finally pulled the scope and base off and measured the base from the specs supplied by SWFA (thanks to them for that, btw!) and it definitely is a 20MOA base. I looked at the base like MTETM suggested and I could not tell if there is a discernable gap that might cause the rear to get pulled down to the receiver, taking away the 20MOA. The base seems to sit on the receiver pretty well, even when not torqued down. SO I don't think thats the problem.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe the front ring rode up somehow on the pic rail when it was torqued down, causing a flattening effect to the overall scope mount. Here are some pics of the bottom of the rings and I did notice that both front and back rings had a pretty good indentation from the "teeth of the picitinny rail gounged into the bottom. Has anyone seen this phenominon? Did I torque the rings down too tightly to the base and caused this?

And this is the base just sitting on the receiver without the screws installed. Do I still need to bed it?

</div></div>

Bump - any comments on the indentations on the bottom of the rings? Normal or not? </div></div>


NO--those marks on the base of your ring/s are NOT normal and should not be there!
Are both of the rings buggered up like that?
Does the base have the same marks?
Respectfully,
LG

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
NO--those marks on the base of your ring/s are NOT normal and should not be there!
Are both of the rings buggered up like that? <span style="color: #FF0000">YES, there should be a pic above with both rings sisde by side.</span>Does the base have the same marks? <span style="color: #FF0000">No, not really, you can see a little wear where it was obvious the tip of the pic rail made the indentation in the bottom of the rings. See pic below....</span>Respectfully,
LG </div></div>

As you can see, the finish is just worn on the left side, or the side where the indentations were made.

The front of the rail:

Rear:

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Looks to me like the rings moved forward in the base under recoil.
What did you torque the ring clamps to? Should be 65"lbs.
Those are steel rings, RIGHT?
Deburr the ring bottoms first.......
Remount your rings to the base and make sure you seat them towards the front(muzzle direction)end of the bases slot. Then torque the cross bolts down and after that reset your scope in the rings and torque the ring halfs down.
Use blue loc-tite on the base screws and ring halfs, NOT on the ring cross bolts.
GOOD LUCK.
Respectfully,
LG

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks to me like the rings moved forward in the base under recoil.
What did you torque the ring clamps to? Should be 65"lbs.
Those are steel rings, RIGHT?
Deburr the ring bottoms first.......
Remount your rings to the base and make sure you seat them towards the front(muzzle direction)end of the bases slot. Then torque the cross bolts down and after that reset your scope in the rings and torque the ring halfs down.
Use blue loc-tite on the base screws and ring halfs, NOT on the ring cross bolts.
GOOD LUCK.
Respectfully,
LG </div></div>

I thought that I did all that you wrote about mounting the bases and ring halves. I tried to mount them at the front of the base slot. And I blue loctited the ring halves but not the cross bolt.

The only thing I did not do was use a torque wrench. So maybe I didn't get them tight enough.

Thanks!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Just remember it's INCH pounds. NOT foot pounds........
LG

 

[Rafael]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Just a guess on my part...not trying to bash EGW or Burris, but...

I would guess that the base or rings, or both, deviate from the spec just a bit. Looks to me like they don't get along too well.

I doubt you will do any damage to your scope but you might consider changing one or the other. The top of that base has a unique look, to me anyway.

 

[He Shoot Me]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

RD,

Just buy these two items from wherever you like, and you should be good to go.

(65in # rings to base, 15in # on the rings to scope.)

Fat Wrench

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=718023

30moa EGW Base

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=515400

-Pat

 

[prplhaz72]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

That is the problem with putting Weaver style rings (which burris are) on a picatinny base. Sure they will fit, but the fit sloppy and allow movement just like you are seeing. Then the fact that the base does not have slots all the way across it to help support the load would make it weaker as well. And the fact how the slots of that base are rounded like that seems like a weekness to me. A full cross slot would have to offer more support. Here is a seekins base, they look a lot different.

I would ditch the burris and get some that are picatinny. If you want to stay cheap then look at the SWFA SS rings. http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Aluminum-Mounting-30mm-Rings-C2676.aspx Otherwise look at Seekins, Badger, or TPS.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Get a good set of rings, that's not normal.

The ring marks have nothing to do with your elevation issue. My guess on the elevation issue would have to do with the barrel not being timed to TDC (which you will never get in a factory stick other than by pure luck) or as pointed out the rear of the receiver may have been hepl on the polishing unit a bit longer than need be while the operator daydreamed.

Did you try to install the base with just the two front screws to see if there was a gap under the rear? If so, your base is bowing and the rings won't be doing good things to the scope either.

I still have that sand in my 308 from the 2day match, just didn't recognize the color.......

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Would not the TDC issue only be if you are using barrel sights?
There is NO tdc with a "smooth"(no sight)barrels.
Now centerline is another issue. and is the bore "true" to the rec'r?
Hope Randy helps out here.
Respectfully,
LG

 

[fcordrey]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

I've had two sets of burris xtr rings and one worked and the other I threw into the trash. Kinda the same think you are having. I think it boils down to what prplhaz72 said about putting weaver style rings on a picatinny base. It will work but it isn't right.....I'd get a good base and set of rings and see what happens. I had to learn the hard way too...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lumpy grits</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would not the TDC issue only be if you are using barrel sights?
There is NO tdc with a "smooth"(no sight)barrels.
Now centerline is another issue. and is the bore "true" to the rec'r?
Hope Randy helps out here.
Respectfully,
LG </div></div>

If the bore is not concentric to the exterior contour and the threading it should be timed so that the highest point is at 12:00 on muzzle, giving the barrel the most elevation possible. If the bore is not concentric and the bullet is exiting at the 6:00 offset then the barrel will use more elevation than usual to get 100yd zero.
When the offset exhibits itself more to the 3:00 and 9:00 positions the rifle will need excess windage to zero (many times this is the case and the receiver's base holes are assumed to be drilled out of alignment, when they are not the culprit).

It would be nice if every bore produced were concentric to the exterior of the barrel, but that just ain't how it goes. Hell, it'd be nice if they were all bored sraight (hammer forging helps this with Remingtons<span style="text-decoration: line-through"> and Salvages</span>).

But I'm no gunsmith, so I may just be full of shit.......

 

[Rafael]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

You are not full of shit.....you are a knowledgeble guy, but.....

The "Salvage" statement is blasphemous.

The use drilled and button-rifled barrels.

 

[catt_tracker]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

Did you measure the ring height bottom half of both your rings? Maybe the Burris rings are not the same one low one medium. I would think that the egw base wouldn't be your problem they have a good rep from what I have heard.

 

[kcbird]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

catt_tracker has a good idea mic the bottom of the rings.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rafael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are not full of shit.....you are a knowledgeble guy, but.....

The "Salvage" statement is blasphemous.

The use drilled and button-rifled barrels. </div></div>

You are correct of course-I had myself a brain fart there. Sat in a NRA instructor class all day with a good, but not too engaging instructor. My brain was toast!

 

[Switchblade]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

OK, first, it is 'slope' and not 'cant' as applied to the base. Cant is side to side, as you all know(small peeve like 'clip' and 'magazine')

Now, get rid of the base and rings and get a set of Seekins, Badger, USO, TPS, whatever, but get the SYSTEM, ie, both base and rings from the same manufacturer. BArring that, any of the aforementioned rings work on the aforementioned spec bases.
Apply the base with a little bedding compound to set it on the receiver. Grease the screw holes well so the stuff doesn't get into them. You will want to scratch the receiver and base a little with a green pad. This beds your base and helps in recoil absorbtion.
Now set the BOTTOM HALF of the ring and apply the proper torque to set them.
Work the erectors of your scope 20 times each all the way up, and all the way down to work in the erectors. Now 'center' both the elevation and windage erector knobs.Place the scope in the bottom half of the rings after you bag or set the rifle in a stand or rest. Insure it is square and plumb to the ground, table, whatever, this is important.
Now looking through the scope, hold each of the rings and turn the scope right and left, back and forth, rolling 180*. As you do this, you will see the center of the reticle scribing an arc. Move your knobs as you roll until the reticle stays centered as you roll. You are now mechanically zeroed. Using a spark plug gapping tool, place the shims between the erector housing and rail to insure you have the scope nice and square in teh rings. Apply the top half of the rings, insure you are correctly square and plumb with your reticle, scope, rail, and rifle. Tighten the top half of the rings to 15"#.
Now you can bore sight your scope to 100M. Simply bag and set the rifle, find a target at exactly 100M, remove the bolt, bag teh rifle so it naturally rests boresighted as you look through the bore at your target. Gently working the windage and elevation, make the adjustment on the scope to zero on the same point. You are now ready to shoot it into the 100M zero at this point. If everything is solid, parts are correctly mounted, you will have plenty of travel in your scope for 1k.

Now for your ammo...
175SMK, 45gr Varget, Win Case, 2700fps
This is what OEM Remington 308 barrels like for some reason. 2700fps will get you to 1k within your rigs ability using a 20MOA sloped base.
It is important that you use 1913 Picatinny spec equipment as it is the most accurately built. Weaver is a bit on the sloppy side, and made for weaver. They do not interchange. Comingling will give you issues.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catt_tracker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you measure the ring height bottom half of both your rings? Maybe the Burris rings are not the same one low one medium. I would think that the egw base wouldn't be your problem they have a good rep from what I have heard. </div></div>
No but that's a good idea. I'll throw the calipers on them tonight or tomorrow and see.

I confirmed with SWFA that I do indeed have a 20 MOA base and it mics correctly, so yes I think it probably NOT the problem.

 

[ReaperDriver]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Did you try to install the base with just the two front screws to see if there was a gap under the rear? If so, your base is bowing and the rings won't be doing good things to the scope either.

I still have that sand in my 308 from the 2day match, just didn't recognize the color....... </div></div>

Not yet, But that's on my "to do" list this weekend. I've been crushed doing some planning for some Haiti relief contingencies the last couple of days and by the time I get home - I've had no desire to touch the gun.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Cordrey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've had two sets of burris xtr rings and one worked and the other I threw into the trash. Kinda the same think you are having. I think it boils down to what prplhaz72 said about putting weaver style rings on a picatinny base. It will work but it isn't right.....I'd get a good base and set of rings and see what happens. I had to learn the hard way too... </div></div>

What about the Burris rings made them trash, jsut wondering what to look for. And I did NOT know the Burris XTRs were Weaver and NOT pic rings. I guess I wrongly assumed that "tactical" would equate to being desiged for a mil-spec PIC rail. Live and learn I guess.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK, first, it is 'slope' and not 'cant' as applied to the base. Cant is side to side, as you all know(small peeve like 'clip' and 'magazine')

Now, get rid of the base and rings and get a set of Seekins, Badger, USO, TPS, whatever, but get the SYSTEM, ie, both base and rings from the same manufacturer. BArring that, any of the aforementioned rings work on the aforementioned spec bases.
Apply the base with a little bedding compound to set it on the receiver. Grease the screw holes well so the stuff doesn't get into them. You will want to scratch the receiver and base a little with a green pad. This beds your base and helps in recoil absorbtion.
Now set the BOTTOM HALF of the ring and apply the proper torque to set them.
Work the erectors of your scope 20 times each all the way up, and all the way down to work in the erectors. Now 'center' both the elevation and windage erector knobs.Place the scope in the bottom half of the rings after you bag or set the rifle in a stand or rest. Insure it is square and plumb to the ground, table, whatever, this is important.
Now looking through the scope, hold each of the rings and turn the scope right and left, back and forth, rolling 180*. As you do this, you will see the center of the reticle scribing an arc. Move your knobs as you roll until the reticle stays centered as you roll. You are now mechanically zeroed. Using a spark plug gapping tool, place the shims between the erector housing and rail to insure you have the scope nice and square in teh rings. Apply the top half of the rings, insure you are correctly square and plumb with your reticle, scope, rail, and rifle. Tighten the top half of the rings to 15"#.
Now you can bore sight your scope to 100M. Simply bag and set the rifle, find a target at exactly 100M, remove the bolt, bag teh rifle so it naturally rests boresighted as you look through the bore at your target. Gently working the windage and elevation, make the adjustment on the scope to zero on the same point. You are now ready to shoot it into the 100M zero at this point. If everything is solid, parts are correctly mounted, you will have plenty of travel in your scope for 1k.

Now for your ammo...
175SMK, 45gr Varget, Win Case, 2700fps
This is what OEM Remington 308 barrels like for some reason. 2700fps will get you to 1k within your rigs ability using a 20MOA sloped base.
It is important that you use 1913 Picatinny spec equipment as it is the most accurately built. Weaver is a bit on the sloppy side, and made for weaver. They do not interchange. Comingling will give you issues. </div></div>

Switchblade - that is a fantastic tutorial on how to mount a scope the RIGHT way. It should be a sticky IMHO.

I'm seriously contemplating selling my EGW and Burris rings (or throwing them in the spares box) and getting a Badger or Seekins set with a 30 MOA base. Right now my scope is on the way back for a replacement (unrelated problem) and I figured I'd start off on the right foot when it gets back and get a good base/rings set.

I'm thinking a 30 MOA base because I'm unable to get the MV with my factory 20" barrel that most others with custom chambers and longer tubes are getting. I've tried a 45.0 Varget load with Lapua brass and 175SMKs and I'm probably getting only 2575-2600 right now (50-60F). So that still appears to be at the limit of travel with my scope with only 11.0 mils up on a 20 MOA base. The extra 10 MOA should allow me to dial my drop with that scope. Depending on what ballistics program I use - it says I need anywhere from 11.3-12.5 mils up to get to 1000yds with my MV in the mid to high 2500's. So I'm having to hold over the last .5 to .7 mils or so to get there and my actual dope confirms that.

 

[Swan]

Re: Need help - Falcon 5.5-25 owners

... easier solution: shoot 155 Scenars.

 

[ReaperDriver]

UPDATE w/ pics - Scope not able to dial to 1000yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... easier solution: shoot 155 Scenars.

</div></div>

I've tried. Yes, they shoot flatter and I can dial in the mils at 1k for them (about 10.2ish mils IIRC), but 155 scenars and 155smk Palmas don't seem to shoot very well out of my SPS-T. Accuracy has only been very average during my load development with both bullets relative to the 175smk and 178 AMAX. Neither bullet seems to like the 1:12 or 20" barrel (or both). In addition, I can only get the 155s to about mid 2700's with my short tube. I hear that 155s, scenars especially, really like to go fast. Perhaps I just am not getting them fast enough to take advantage of the better ballistics. I dunno....