USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle BUILD FINISHED!!

#51
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Frank Green</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before you blue the bolt you should double check this. All of the USMC sniper rifles where either 1903 National Match rifles or built to Match rifle specs. If memory serves me correctly the bolts where left polished. When I did my rifle I had the bolt polished and left it that way.

Maybe if someone else has more information they can help out.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels </div></div>

Thanks Frank

Yes, you are right the NM rifles were left polished.

But in Canford's book he mentions that M1903A1 specs called for the bolt to be blued and that the blue had a unique "watery" appearance (possibly similar to that noted on the scope above? Not dark, but a "thin" silvery blue?).

He also mentions that both blued and polished bolts are found and ,post WWII, unnumbered parkerized bolts were also used.

Poyer specifically mentions that bolts were polished and then blued to eliminate glare.

I can't check my copy of Senich's WWII & Korea book as Paul has it.

But, whilst Poyer publishes the NM spec, none of these books actually publishes a copy of "the spec".

It would be great if any member knows where to find one and could post a link or even a scan of it!
 
#52
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

The few genuine USMC 03 sniperr rifles i saw had a dark, blue black on the bolt, with is consistent with them being a combat rifle. It appeared to me that the bolt may have been dipped.
Unfortunately Bill Atwater retired from the Aberdeen ordnance museum a few years ago. he was a former marine infantry officer as well as running the museum and teaching at the ordnance School. He would have been glad to have a excuse to pull a marine Sniper rifle rifle out of the display cases and handle it, with white cotton gloves on, of course.
The Museum is moving right now, to Ft lee, but I expect if you contact them via E mail and ask specific questions about the appearance of a piece like this they just might go and look on a guaranteed origional.
 
#53
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

donttrytorun - thanks for that - great idea.

A chat with Bill Attwater would be really interesting and something I'd relish. I've always enjoyed his contributions to the many TV documentaries he's appeared on...and what a great job he had after he came out of the service!!

One of the other references we've used for this project is this (from OliveDrab.com's page on the M1903A1):

<span style="font-style: italic">"This section compiled by Larry Reynolds as presented in USMC publication, "History of the M1903A1 Rifle" by Dieter Stenger, Curator of Ordnance. The USMC Model 1941 Sniper Rifle characteristics cited are:

•Serial numbers ranging from 900,000 to 1,532,000.
•Rifles predating 1936 exhibit the second gas port as recommended by General Hatcher (believed USMC modification).
•Rails on almost all rifles were polished (NM).
•Centered rear Unertl scope block and butted against the rear sight.
•Top of receiver was ground to bare metal where sight bloc holes are drilled. Bare metal usually visible with bloc installed.
•Barrel punch mark at 6 o’clock, directly under the front bloc. Re-barreled rifles may not have mark.
•Serial numbers found on stock exhibiting NM features.
•NM heavy checkered butt plates.
•Pre-1936 rifles stamped with D.A.L. cartouche. Post-1936 stamped with SA over SPG.
•Milled trigger guards and housings. Staked screws on trigger guard.
•Standard front sights without covers.
•Standard 1905 rear sight with pre-World War I notch.
•World War II replacement hand guards with single straight cut for windage knob.
•Bolts polished, numbered and blued.
•Bolts marked on top of root where it joins body for type of steel. Most NS for nickel steel, last production marked D1.
•Early Hatcher Hole modified bolts have a single gas hole modified to larger hole.
•Later bolts, for factory receivers with Hatcher Hole, have two gas holes in bottom.
•Later bolt extractors marked CV (chrome vanadium).
•Scope blocks lettered on bottom, 0 - rear and E - front.
•7.8 x 1-1/4” objective, 24”, Unertl Target scope with 1/4 or 1/2 minute clicks and anodized Duraluminum mount.
•Scope marked USMC SNIPER and serialized from low 1,000 to high 2,775.
•Scopes finished with commercial blue.
•1047 Team Rifles were available at Philadelphia for conversion to sniper. Sale of surplus USMC 03 rifles (Marine Corps only) began Fall 1954, mostly to Marine officers"</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">EDITED: Just heard from Paul that he's managed to find an old electric etching pencil on EGay. He contacted the buyer who agreed to end the auction early for an immediate guaranteed sale. £30 incl. shipping - beats the $400 price tag we'd been seeing on new units!!</span>
 
#54
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

That's pretty good info. More redtailed than any I ever saw in some aspects.
The Marine Corps Museum at Quantico migt be able to help you out too. You know they got somebody down there with the obsessive compulsive love of weapons needed to answer your questions.
Unfortunately after WW there was no real interest in weapons or equipment of Historical significance. which is why so few examples of enemy or friendly aircraft, tanks, or weapons were warehoused and stored for future display. The Korean War led to most of the captured German and Japanese aircraft that were actually brought back to the US being run over with bulldozers and buried, because they need the space they were taking up. In Europe most of the German equipment ended up being cut up for scrap, and what was retained, likely by the French for their own use was junked and scrapped by the 50's.
This is why they pull planes out of the bottom of Lake Michigan, or remote lakes in Russia, or even out of the sand of the English Channel, and do rebuild/remanufacture, just to have examples.
Good luck with your project. It will be close enough to get my heart beating fast.
o show how little Historical interst was shown in the past, Springfield 1903 Serial Number 0001 was found issued to a Grunt in France in WW I, and somebody in the field pulled it back and thought it might be a good idea not to lose it in the trenches. But it got that far. It had been modified from the origional Rod Bayonet and rebarreled for the 30-06 round without concern. It was just another rifle for 15 years before that.
 
#55
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
o show how little Historical interst was shown in the past, Springfield 1903 Serial Number 0001 was found issued to a Grunt in France in WW I, and somebody in the field pulled it back and thought it might be a good idea not to lose it in the trenches. But it got that far. It had been modified from the origional Rod Bayonet and rebarreled for the 30-06 round without concern. It was just another rifle for 15 years before that.</div></div>

That's a great story to typify that era. We didn't have time to be sentimental.
 
#56
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
That's a great story to typify that era. We didn't have time to be sentimental. </div></div>
I just looked it back up in Brophy's book. Pg 27. There is a picture of the reciever, and I was wrong. It wasn't numbered "0001".

Just "1".
It was returned to the "Chief of Ordnance" after being found in the hands of troops in France, after being considered "Historically Significant".
 
#58
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donttrytorun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">here's a link to a guy who will properly cartouche your stock. I forget if you did that, or it already has some.

www.trfindley.com/pgsnstmps03.html </div></div>

There's no cartouches on the stock at all

That's a great link and it'd be great to get it done - but I'd have to send the stock over from the UK to be stamped and then returned.

Have contacted Tom and he says that he can't help on international shipping!

Trying to see if he can get me a set of the right stamps......
 
#59
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

BasraBoy-

I've been following your project with great interest, and spotted something in the photos of your newly-polished bolt.

Now, I'm no expert on 1903s, but the safety lug on your bolt appears to be the rectangular type common to late war 1903A3 bolts. I just examined photos in one of Senich's, books, and all of the USMC 1903A1 snipers seem to have the earlier, sculptured type safety lugs.

Do a little research and make your own conclusion, but now would be the time to change the contour of that part to look a little more correct.

Again, I may very well be wrong, and certainly it's a small difference, but just thought I'd point it out.

Cheers... Jim
 
#60
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks for the tip Jim. Good catch!

Just for info the serial number on the donor rifle is in the low 1518000's so is bang on for the serial number range of known USMC rifles.

The rifle was sold as "arsenal refinished" but I don't know where or when this was done. If this is anything like the Enfield FTR (factory through repair) process, I wonder if they could have replaced the bolt?

FTR'd Enfields had worn or damaged parts replaced. Such parts had all their original stamps/marks removed and were re-serialed to the rifle to which they were fitted and had the factory inspection mark added so it is relatively easy to track and trace FTR's.

However, there are/were no markings of any sort on the Springfield's bolt. Paul is always very carefull to avoid removing or damaging historic marks whether on the wood or metal.

On your suggestion of reworking the bolt -I'm a little wary about starting to mess with the lugs - I wouldn't want to get the rifle to a state where it may not be 100% safe....

As I'm away on a trip for a couple of weeks, I checked in with Paul for his take on the lug. Here's his reply:

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic">"The lug you mention is the safety lug and I have viewed all my books and you are correct the lug has an inverse curve which aligns with the extractor. I am sure this was nothing more than speeding up the manufacturing process and maybe reducing the cost of the bolt.

1. This is an hardened lug therefore you can’t file only grind.

2. Three issues

a. Any heat cause by the grinding process might alter the strength of the bolt.

b. I am not keen altering anything that is part of the locking mechanism, if the main lugs failed that is the only item stopping the bolt going through your skull and I cannot guarantee that any alteration by me wouldn’t alter that safety factor.

c. You have altered a stress bearing component, therefore it would have to go through re-proof."</span></span>

Given the possible safety issue plus the hassle and expense of sending the finished rifle off for re-proof, I think we'll leave as is
wink.gif


But great info for anyone else who may be doing a similar project. Thanks again Jim!
 
#62
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the tip Jim. Good catch!

Just for info the serial number on the donor rifle is in the low 1518000's so is bang on for the serial number range of known USMC rifles.

The rifle was sold as "arsenal refinished" but I don't know where or when this was done. If this is anything like the Enfield FTR (factory through repair) process, I wonder if they could have replaced the bolt?

FTR'd Enfields had worn or damaged parts replaced. Such parts had all their original stamps/marks removed and were re-serialed to the rifle to which they were fitted and had the factory inspection mark added so it is relatively easy to track and trace FTR's.

However, there are/were no markings of any sort on the Springfield's bolt. Paul is always very carefull to avoid removing or damaging historic marks whether on the wood or metal.

On your suggestion of reworking the bolt -I'm a little wary about starting to mess with the lugs - I wouldn't want to get the rifle to a state where it may not be 100% safe....

As I'm away on a trip for a couple of weeks, I checked in with Paul for his take on the lug. Here's his reply:

<span style="color: #000099"><span style="font-style: italic">"The lug you mention is the safety lug and I have viewed all my books and you are correct the lug has an inverse curve which aligns with the extractor. I am sure this was nothing more than speeding up the manufacturing process and maybe reducing the cost of the bolt.

1. This is an hardened lug therefore you can’t file only grind.

2. Three issues

a. Any heat cause by the grinding process might alter the strength of the bolt.

b. I am not keen altering anything that is part of the locking mechanism, if the main lugs failed that is the only item stopping the bolt going through your skull and I cannot guarantee that any alteration by me wouldn’t alter that safety factor.

c. You have altered a stress bearing component, therefore it would have to go through re-proof."</span></span>

Given the possible safety issue plus the hassle and expense of sending the finished rifle off for re-proof, I think we'll leave as is
wink.gif


But great info for anyone else who may be doing a similar project. Thanks again Jim! </div></div>

That safety lug is just what it is a safety lug. It should not bear on any part of the receiver during closing or when the bolt is closed. It's only meant as an extra measure in case the two main lugs should fail on the bolt.

The only '03 Type Springfields where this lug would bear against the receiver is on the Model 1922. This lug was the only locking lug on the .22RF chambered guns. They had no front lug.

Grinding it to the correct shape especially if you do it under coolant shouldn't get it hot enough to change the temper of the lug/bolt. Assuming your not taking a heavy cut to it.

Being as it is not a bearing lug and recontouring it etc...I don't know why they would make you reproof it. But you live there and know the in's and outs of what you have to go thru etc...

Later, Frank
 
#63
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Maybe the guy I posted the cartouche link to would have sympathy and take pity on your situation, and for a credit card deposit sent the SA over SPG in a square and the P in a square cartouches to you for a reasonable fee, if you sed them right back after use.I am pretty sure all the marine O3A1 Sniper Rifles were likely new production obtained from S.A., and came with star barrels that actually demonstrated they were superior and had C stocks origional as 03A1's. Older match rifles at the Philadelphia Depot, where all the work was done would have barrels that were used and worn, and with the number of rifles the marines needed for the Sniper Rifle project would have obtained their run from SA as new.
The Match Rifles already in stock would have likely remained so. Just like now, match rifles would have been inspected and gauged frequently and rebarreled or removed from match work when reasonable wear was shown. Barrels wear out pretty quick when practicing and shooting matches, and replacing them frequently was common practice. Likely they would be rebarreled and removed from Match Service. Stocks that showed damage would be replaced and if that was the only issue they could continue in match work. C stocks replaced either at Philadelphia or at a Ordnance Depot in Australia or Hawaii or somewhere else during the war would have no cartouche.
 
#64
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Bob, thanks. Paul is a good guy and takes a real pride in his work so I'm sure this one will be the equal of the No4T

Frank. Thanks for the info on the bolt. I understand why Paul points out the possible.safety issues. He is not saying it can't be done or that he wouldn't do it....just pointing out the potential downside.

When I get back to the UK I'll do a bit more research on bolts.....but if anyone has access to rifles with serial numbers around 1518000 it would be good to know whether they are similar to the one above or the one Jim describes.

Donttrytorun, Mr Findley has sent me the address of the guys who he gets the stamps from in GA.....$150 each plus shipping.

My rifle is early 1938 so it would be SA over SPG I believe

Looking at a solution for this.....
 
#65
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Hi BasraBoy, it seems as though we have a similar interest. I too am in the UK and have a reasonable M1903. I use the rifle in Classic McQueen competitions at 300yds with a return spring and can confirm the amount of movement prevoiusly identified. Under recoil the scope moves forward so provided you have a good shoulder contact and cheek weld there will be no risk of a snipers eye. I got mine a couple of years ago complete after alot of searching. The bore was rotten and it has since been re-barreled with a replica patten from Numrich. I'm using Lapua cases and the 168 Amax which group less than 1 moa rested at 100 but opens up at 300 but that could be me. I'm going to test the 175's also when i get time. As you say the standard trigger is poor (on mine anyway) to say the least. I would be interested to hear if you have a contact who is reliable and could make a significant improvement to it for me in the UK. I'm in the South East not too far from Bisley where my home club is. Good luck with the project and congratulations on finding an USMC original (mine is an 8x 1&1/4" objective but not a USMC serial number). It almost seems that there's more 1903's overhere than left in the USA at times as my friend has one as well. I'll Put some photos on but don't know how at the moment. Best Regards - Steve.
 
#66
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Steve, welcome to the Hide. Always good to see another Brit here.

Thanks for sharing info on your rifle....would be good to see those pics.

As soon as I'm back in Blighty I'll drop you a PM with Paul's details. He's just outside Newbury so probably pretty close to you.

I've had John at HPS do a test batch for the 1903 based on the original M1 ammo specs using 174gr SMK. Will post a range report somewhere down the road when the build is finished
 
#67
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks BasraBoy, I know Paul well as he's done a fair bit of work for me on my K98 and some other stuff mostly woodwork which was all very good. I must confess I hadn't thought of running the 1903 trigger by him - I'll give him a bell sometime soon. I have to get the wife involved with the rifle photos though - that should be fun!
 
#68
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Latest pics.

Wood is now restored, fitted and matched (looks very orange in these pics, but is actually quite dark!). Matt oil finish to be applied, that will darken it further.

IMG_6758.jpg


IMG_6759.jpg


IMG_6760.jpg
 
#72
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks Emilio.

I've managed to do a little more research on the safety lug as pointed out by JustJim.

Poyer mentions two types of safety lug - the scallopped type described by JIm above which was in production until 1944, then a second variation without the scallop - which is the one the donor rifle has.

As the donor rifle is early 1938 production it whould have had the scallopped type originally.

I'm guessing that this must have been damaged and was replaced with the later style bolt when the rifle was arsenal refinished.

 
#73
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

My circa 1918 03 has a reddish tinge to the wood that I really like. Makes it glow. I am sure the wood is not origional though. any surplus rifle that old would have been through several rebuilds and repairs in it's life, unless bought new from the DCM. The NRA match 03's I've seen from the era didn't have the military finger groove on the stock.
You're wood came out really nice. Glad it didn't have any deep gouges hat couldn't be sanded or steamed out and no cracks discovered on disassembly. Oil it well, because that walnut will soak it up like a sponge.
 
#74
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Run - the red is gun oil mixed with the wood- it takes in excess of 20 years to get that from all tha I've read. Probably original unless it's actual RED like a Red Cedar or Red Mohageney or something...
IF it's walnut and it's red it has gun oil embedded - and they say that's a keeper..


Now they also say that Militech-1 can reproduce that in 6 mos vs 25 years...
 
#75
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Basra if I can dig up a safety from my smith I'll put it in the box....

My smith knows these creatures inside and out and has a nice collection of parts..He also patented a 3 position safety for numerous mausers, including the 03.
 
#76
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Basra-

Just a note. I refinished an '03 stock last night with a product I'd not tried before. Fairtrimmers Military XO gunstock oil. LOVED IT!!!

It was quite easy and fast, and the resulting finish looked just right. I'm building a 1903A4 clone, and I'll try to get some photos up soon.

Your smith might not wish to take the time to get any of this in from the states, but after first use, I can say it beats all of the other stock finishes I've used by a mile!

www.fairtrimmers.com

Cheers... Jim
 
#77
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Jim, that looks like good stuff!

The webpages are an interesting read - especially with the "how to" and also the way you can get different tones of red/brown from a single can!

EDITTED My smith knows this stuff and has used it as it is one of the few finishing products Brownells will ship internationally.

He says it is easy to work with and builds up colour well but is not waterproof so lets moisture through (rain, sweat etc.) so marks quite easily - probably not the best thing in the UK given our climate!
wink.gif

 
#78
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Here's a couple quick, poor photos. Just as they say, the Fairtrimmers results in a finish IN the stock, rather than ON the stock. It really does look "right".

I know it looks odd to see the rifle sans bolt, but forging the bolt handle is the last part of this job to be done.

Cheers... Jim

A4004.jpg


A4002.jpg
 
#80
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

For anyone interested in doing this somewhat cheaper Leatherwood Malcolm is supposed to have a repro of the USMC Unertl 8X scope for sale soon.

To the OP. Great work! This is a beautiful rifle.

I have two C stocked 03's but I dont dare change them. Someday I'll come across the right candidate for tapping.

GungnirNothungMjolnir-1.jpg
 
#81
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks guys - I really appreciate all the interest and positive comments and advice everyone is chipping in.

Spent some time with Paul at the weekend reviewing the project.

It's starting to get a bit obsessional (AGAIN
wink.gif
)!!

We discussed the bolt again - Paul is going to write to a UK proof house and check if reprofiling the safety lug would mean the rifle has to go through proof again.

Just to explain our reluctance to do this....UK proof requires a test shot with a load 25%- 50% above the maximum theoretical service pressure for the calibre in question. The rifle passed it's proof test on import but there is a danger (I guess higher on rifles 70+ years old?) that the proof test could damage or destroy the action.

We don't want to end up with a rifle that is f*cked or fails and just becomes a very expensive wall hanger!

Provided no re-proof is necessary, we are looking at ways (as per Frank's advice above) as to whether we could do the work on the lug under coolant and in baby steps.....like I said...we're getting obsessional
laugh.gif
!!

I got the stock back too - here's some pics from this morning (grey, overcast) next to the No4T Paul did for me (which has the Fairtrimmers stock finish Jim mentions above).

Paul used a wood stain then a wax oil finish on the 1903 to replicate BLO:

1903finish001.jpg


1903finish002.jpg


1903finish003.jpg


As you can see there is a little "graining" on the top edge of the Springfield stock foreend that means the stain goes a little light. We could add more stain and try to fade it into the rest of the stock but I don't want it turning black!!

There's going to be a little delay in progress for a couple of weeks or so as we work on the cartouche/stamps and wait for a reply from the proof house......

More news and updates as they happen......

For those interested in th No4T, here's a link to the thread I ran on that project in the days before the Vintage forum:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2557323&page=1
 
#83
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pmclaine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For anyone interested in doing this somewhat cheaper Leatherwood Malcolm is supposed to have a repro of the USMC Unertl 8X scope for sale soon.

To the OP. Great work! This is a beautiful rifle.

I have two C stocked 03's but I dont dare change them. Someday I'll come across the right candidate for tapping.

GungnirNothungMjolnir-1.jpg
</div></div>

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011...e-sniper-scope/
Here's a link. I'm building a 70. Still waiting to see some feedback on these but certainly an option being the cost and availability of a real one
 
#84
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

I haven`t been able to find any mention anywhere of the release date on the Unertl copy.
Any idea when it`s supposed to be available?
 
#85
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

This is the link to the repro scopes:

http://www.hi-luxoptics.com/

But no mention there of a release date.

At $549 (the figure mentioned in the Accurate Shooter bulletin) why would you not go to this guy and check out an original Unertl first to see what $550 - $850 would get you?:

http://unertl.alexweb.net/for_sale.htm
 
#86
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At $549 (the figure mentioned in the Accurate Shooter bulletin) why would you not go to this guy and check out an original Unertl first to see what $550 - $850 would get you?:

http://unertl.alexweb.net/for_sale.htm </div></div>

That site has been up a long time. Good luck getting that guy to respond to you, either by Email, or telephone.
 
#87
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

At $549 (the figure mentioned in the Accurate Shooter bulletin) why would you not go to this guy and check out an original Unertl first to see what $550 - $850 would get you?:

http://unertl.alexweb.net/for_sale.htm </div></div>

5-7 or so years ago I bought a Redfield 3200 from him. S--L--O--W to ship after I paid up front, it took numerous phone calls to prod him enough to finally ship it out.
His website hasn`t been updated in years, and he`s a complete flake to do business with.

The Unertl 1 1/4" are scopes getting very, very hard to find. If the reproduction scopes work well I see alot of them being sold.
 
#88
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Mike, DV - I spoke to him a couple of times when I was looking for scopes but never did business with him.

You're both in a better position than I to advise on whether he is a good place to try (or not).
 
#89
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

My local shop has a 25X unertl (Sorry I dont know what the lens size is but I'd guess 1.25 and the length of the scope has to be 24 inches or so. It has clear optics. Seller wants $600.

but...The pope rib (the rail that the recoil spring rides on is coming off the tube. Parsons gave me a price of $400 to tear it down and repair and overhaul.

$1000 for a scope that only looks like an 8x but wouldnt allow me to compete in matches. I've tried emailing the guy with the Unertl site. He never responded.

I'd love to get a Unertl but they are not that easy to come by in Massachusetts.
 
#90
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

I'm pretty sure that the 1 1/4" Unertl Target scope didn't come in 25x. IIRC it only came in 8x, 10x, 12x, and 14x. I could be wrong though.
 
#91
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rhongman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty sure that the 1 1/4" Unertl Target scope didn't come in 25x. IIRC it only came in 8x, 10x, 12x, and 14x. I could be wrong though. </div></div>

Your correct. The 1 1/4" didn't come in powers above either a 12 or 14.

I don't think they made the 1 1/2" in a power over 20x.

The 2" Targets and the 2" programmers I know you could get those in powers up to 32x or 36x.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
#92
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins


Here`s a fairly complete list (I think) of the various scope powers for the Unertl external adjustment target and varmint scopes:


Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 8x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 10x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 12x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 14x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 16x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 18x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 20x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 24x
Programer-200 and 2" Target Scopes 30x


1 1/2" Target Scope 8x
1 1/2" Target Scope 10x
1 1/2" Target Scope 12x
1 1/2" Target Scope 14x
1 1/2" Target Scope 16x
1 1/2" Target Scope 18x
1 1/2" Target Scope 20x
1 1/2" Target Scope 24x


1 1/4" Target Scope 8x
1 1/4" Target Scope 10x
1 1/4" Target Scope 12x
1 1/4" Target Scope 14x


1" Target Scope 6x
1" Target Scope 8x
1" Target Scope 10x


2" Ultra Varmint 8x
2" Ultra Varmint 10x
2" Ultra Varmint 12x
2" Ultra Varmint 15x

1.25" Varmint 6x
1.25" Varmint 8x
1.25" Varmint 10x
1.25" Varmint 12x


Small Game 4x
Small Game 6x

Increasing eye pieces were made that would fit some of these models of scopes that would boost the magnification above the listed power, not sure which models the eye pieces were made for.
 
#93
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rhongman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm pretty sure that the 1 1/4" Unertl Target scope didn't come in 25x. IIRC it only came in 8x, 10x, 12x, and 14x. I could be wrong though. </div></div>

I defer to your knowledge on these scopes, my knowledge is nill. It has been more than a year since I looked at it. It still sits on a shelf unused awaiting a buyer. No caps, pretty good looking tube, but it wasnt $600 to me. The shop I frequent is like going into someones attic. The owner shops estates and I dont think he even knows what he has. The top 1903 and the Garand in my pic came from his place.
 
#94
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Whilst we wait for the build to continue and are talking Unertl....

If you are interested in more info on the Unertl's....some interesting info here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Unertl/

However....does anybody know how to set the turrets on the external adjustors back to 0 once the rifle is zeroed?

Copies of the manual that I have seen don't cover this...so it may not even be possible?
 
#95
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

However....does anybody know how to set the turrets on the external adjustors back to 0 once the rifle is zeroed?

Copies of the manual that I have seen don't cover this...so it may not even be possible? </div></div>

The adjustment knobs have a slotted screw head that appears to hold the knobs in place.
If you loosen these screws would it allow you to reset the knobs to zero then retighten the screws to hold your adjustments?
I`m not sure just thought I`d toss that idea out.
 
#96
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

However....does anybody know how to set the turrets on the external adjustors back to 0 once the rifle is zeroed?

Copies of the manual that I have seen don't cover this...so it may not even be possible? </div></div>

The adjustment knobs have a slotted screw head that appears to hold the knobs in place.
If you loosen these screws would it allow you to reset the knobs to zero then retighten the screws to hold your adjustments?
I`m not sure just thought I`d toss that idea out. </div></div>

Thanks for the thought DV, what you say makes sense.

No offence intended, but I'm not about to take a screwdriver to these just on a on hunch that it might be the right thing to do.

They're old and original to the scope - I'm not going to gamble and find I've buggered them up.

I'm really looking for someone with experience of these adjusters to chip in.
 
#98
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

dieselten - thanks mate, much obliged!

But...having looked at my turrets and a few pictures it looks like there are different versions.

Pictures of civilian type adjusters show two grub/set screws either side of the 0 marker on the turrets.

The ones that I have are the military ones and don't have the grub screws....just the big screw on the end....as in the pics I posted above.

Maybe DV is right.....these are the ones to loosen???
 
#99
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe DV is right.....these are the ones to loosen??? </div></div>

Should have thought of this before:

Give Parson`s Scope Service a call, they currently have a commerical Unertl of mine in for repair and they mentioned that they also have worked on the USMC scopes, their number is 513-867-0820.

The company founder, Gil Parsons, has passed away and his sons have taken over all of the work there.
 
#100
Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

DV - thanks.

I spoke to Mike Parsons a few weeks ago when Iorderd a recoil spring for the scope. He was trying to get me the info but nothing yet.

So I asked the question here so see if I could save some money on the phone call!!
laugh.gif


I'll give him another call next week........
 
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