USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle BUILD FINISHED!!

[Marksman]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

While we're talking about the unertl's .... Were the 1903A1 models the only models that were adapted for the unertl scopes for sniping? Or were the 1903A3/A4's also adapted for sniper use?

 

[ScharfshutzeK98]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Really cool build, cant wait to see the end result.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While we're talking about the unertl's .... Were the 1903A1 models the only models that were adapted for the unertl scopes for sniping? Or were the 1903A3/A4's also adapted for sniper use? </div></div>

M1903A4 were definitley converted but not to use the Unertl x8 as far as I know - they used Weaver M73B1, Weaver 330, and possibly also Redfield scopes?

Whilst some were used by the USMC, these were most frequently issued to US Army units.

Other scopes used on the M1903 and M1903A1 included Winchester A5's and Lyman 5A

But, for me, the iconic WW2 era USMC rifle is the 1941 Sniper Rifle with the x8 Unertl

 

[itieknots7]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Great attention to detail, excited to see final project

 

[pmclaine]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">While we're talking about the unertl's .... Were the 1903A1 models the only models that were adapted for the unertl scopes for sniping? Or were the 1903A3/A4's also adapted for sniper use? </div></div>

I saw that done in Saving Private Ryan does Hollywood imagination count?

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

So Here's a couple of gorgeous 1903 stocks

Basra and mine...going in for stamping!

 

[BobC]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Beautiful wood. Wood would beat kevlar, fiberglass or plastic on looks alone if nothing else in my opinion. One reason I like vintage rifles so much.

 

[longguntoter]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Really nice.

 

[IronSights2011]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Holy cow, that thing belongs in an observatory. Sweet.

Here's a little more history on the original scopes:

http://www.targetsportsmagazine.com/features/view/10340/project-rifle-friends-re-united/

 

[Longbow_06]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

No new updates on this yet

Lee.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Lee, sorry mate nothing to report at the moment.

But good things come to those that wait

Stock is still out for stamping and proof house are in no hurry to reply on the re-proof if we rework the bolt

 

[Longbow_06]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

I have been following this eagerly

One of the best projects I've seen.

Lee.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

After a longer than expected break....latest update:

We heard back from the UK Proof House at last.

Under UK Law, the bolt and rifle were proof fired on registration by the importer.

They have confirmed that any subsequent work on the bolt that entails removal of metal means the bolt has to be re-proofed.

Although the cost is less than £100, there is a risk that a 70-80 year old rifle may not take too kindly to a second proof test at up to 50% above maximum expected service pressure.

So.....much as I'd like to get the bolt reworked,,,,,I think it is prudent to leave the bolt as it is, a late '44 pattern replacement bolt.

After all.....I'm sure these old battle rifles would have undergone many repairs through their service life.

Who's to say that damaged (or even lost?) bolts weren't replaced....especially later in their life (for example when re-issued for Korea)...with the more widley available later pattern?

Paul will now be cracking on with electric-pencilling the bolt and then re-bluing.

Also - expect the stamped stock back soon(ish)....

Will hopefully be posting more pics of those parts as and when available.

More soon........

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Looks like we're getting back on track.....stock is back from stamping by Tom Findley

:

Here's a pic from Brophy of an original for comparison:

I'm happy with the results.

A big "thanks!" to Donttrytorun for the tip on this guy and to ArcticLight for his invaluable help on the logistics!! Thanks guys!

Not sure we're going to get the build finished by Christmas as hoped...but we're not too far away now (barring any last minute problems fitting it all back together!!)....then the real fun starts - getting it zero'd and shooting it!!

(Read more on the Tom Findley stamp thing in ArcticLight's post here: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2967148#Post2967148 )

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Hey mine looks just like that!

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

OK Not to distract from the topic, I went ahead and sent my stock in for stamping with Basra's since the shipping was combined basically...

And then look what else showed up in the mail today ....
(I will remain silent on it otherwise - Basra?)

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Arctic - that stock's looking good, mate!

And the bayonet is a 1918 manufactured M1905 with the M1910 canvas cover scabbard.....been looking for a good one for a while.

It's not just the rifles I like...but I collect bayonets too.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

I will admit, wiht shame, I slid it onto my rifle to see what it looked like - no photographic evidence of that though

I didn't lock it in place just to be safe

IT is a gorgeous bayonet, you don't see them in that kind of shape...

 

[Longbow_06]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Great to see this is back on track... Great rifles, guys. One jealous ex-pat here

Lee.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Should've known things were going too well on this one!!

Stock arrived back with me today.

Sorry to say that despite some great packing and padding, it looks to have taken a knock in transit:

Luckily the missing flakes were still in the packing so first mail of the day was to my smith to see if he thinks he can fix it up (either by refixing the missing pieces or filling and staining somehow).

 

[Joop]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

That's a heartbreaker, BB. Sorry to see that. I see that our postal services have a lot in common!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Joop - thanks! Shit happens, don't it!

I'm thinking that we'll either try to refix the flakes or maybe it'd be a better fix to grind them up with some filler, plug the hole and then sand it.

I've still got the old handguard so maybe even a piece can be cut and fitted.

Well get it sorted somehow!

On the upside, it makes for a more interesting addition to the thread!

 

[Frank Green]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Should've known things were going too well on this one!!

Stock arrived back with me today.

Sorry to say that despite some great packing and padding, it looks to have taken a knock in transit:

As long as you have all the pieces and they broke out cleanly it should be an easy fix.

I use Brownell's bedding compound. Not the Acraglas but the Gel. It will come with brown and black dye. Mix some up and add the dye. Try just the brown first. A little goes a long way. Test it on like the barrel channel first where you won't see it so you can tell if the dye/compound mix matches the wood. If the test goes o.k. mix some more up add your chipped pieces and reattached it to the stock. You might have to do a little finish work afterwards but if done properly it will just look like grain in the wood. I can post some pictures of a some repairs I've done.

To bad it chipped!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

Luckily the missing flakes were still in the packing so first mail of the day was to my smith to see if he thinks he can fix it up (either by refixing the missing pieces or filling and staining somehow). </div></div>

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks for the tip Frank - those pics of your repairs would be good to see.

 

[JunkYardPerro]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally Posted By: Carter MayfieldNice project! I wanted to put one of these together. I put in for a CMP 1903, but that is a lottery and a total crap shoot.

This is one expensive build, but it is my vote for the best sniper "system" in WWII. The 1903 is very accurate and the Unertl has got substantial magnification compared to its German competitors.

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">The only issue is the size of the Unertl.</span></span>

I think the runner up is the Swede M41B. A great caliber with a pretty good scope all on a well-made Mauser with a quality barrel.

</div></div>

The " Unertl Scopes " have that " CLASSIC LOOK " vs a more modern type !
" New Made Wm. Malcolm 8x USMC-SNIPER Scope "
http://www.leatherwoodoptics.com/


JP

 

[Frank Green]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the tip Frank - those pics of your repairs would be good to see. </div></div>

I'll take some pictures over the weekend but won't be able to post until early next week.

Have a Happy New Year!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks Frank, that'd be great.

Happy New Year to you too....and to all the rest of you guys - let's hope it is a good one!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Chip repaired - using the original bits, some wood glue and filler then restained and finished.

Not invisible but that's probably never going to happen without reprofiling the pistol grip.

Will see how it feels and lasts. Can always reprofile as a last resort of the repair doesn't hold up

 

[tat2steve]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

It has character now.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tat2steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has character now. </div></div>

So that's the nice way of saying it's fugly, right?

But it is exactly how I see it...."added character"

 

[Frank Green]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Frank, that'd be great.

Happy New Year to you too....and to all the rest of you guys - let's hope it is a good one! </div></div>

Here are the couple of pictures of stock repair with the bedding compound.

On my '03 the stock was cracked/busted in 3 places. If you look just above the trigger guard/magazine box about half way from forward of the bolt handle you can see one of the cracks. This is the only one you can see. The other two blended in so good you cannot see it in a picture or with the naked eye unless I point them out to you.

The Marlin Model 39 "S" shaped butt stock you can see the two cracks/splits. These stand out because the splits where so big but it's a nice repair job and will never crack or split there ever again.

Again it's playing with the dye color etc...to get it to match your wood.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks Frank - you did a great job there!

On mibe the flakes (the chip split in two) were no more than 0.5mm thick and around 4 - 5mm long.

From the pic, I'm not a great fan of the filler Paul used but after he replaced the flakes there was still a large dent from whatever dinged the stock that he didn't want to leave.

I had spoken to him about your method with the bedding compound before he he started but he didn't think he could match the stain.

If I'd have known that the filler would look as it does now.....then I'd probably have insisted he try it!

Althought ot be fair, I've yet to see it in the flesh...maybe it looks better than the pic?

Not sure he can undo the repair now wihout making it look a whole lot worse.

I'll live with it - if it fails...then we can revisit it.

In the meantime....I'll enjoy the "added character"

 

[tat2steve]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tat2steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has character now. </div></div>

So that's the nice way of saying it's fugly, right?

But it is exactly how I see it...."added character" </div></div>

Fugly...no. If the whole stock would have been broken in half that would be fugly !!!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tat2steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tat2steve</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has character now. </div></div>

So that's the nice way of saying it's fugly, right?

But it is exactly how I see it...."added character" </div></div>

Fugly...no. If the whole stock would have been broken in half that would be fugly !!! </div></div>

That would have been more than fugly - that would have been a Grade A Certified "Mother of all Disasters" and doesn't bare thinking about!!

Spoke to Paul about it again last night as he is not entirely happy with how it looks either.

Will keep you all posted on the next step.....

 

[tat2steve]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Sounds like you have a good 'smith doing your work.

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Basra that came out awesome, it just makes it look like a real antique stock!

I coulda swore I wrapped an extra s heet of foam around that when I felt the grip, but Basra said the box was penetrated or dented.

I feel bad as I'm the one that packed it up but swore it was tight. When I got it it was just bouncing around in bubbles as HIS box almost got destroyed in transit...

Damn post office

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Arctic - thanks! Told you we'd get it sorted.

As you can see from the filler, whatever went through the box was pretty sharp and left a nice hole!

Those other two little nicks were already there - Paul remembers them. They are no problem.

...and....

Please stop beating yourself up about it, mate. It really wasn't your fault, The packing was fine!

 

[RMPSTRAT]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

bedding compound works very well. The old Micro Bed used to have a good color. Nice thing about the AcraGlass gel is that you can work on the color a bit then as it cures you can also work to blend it by scribing grain lines into the patch to help it blend as well.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Ray, thanks for the tip.

Sounds like the same or similar to the method Frank mentioned.

I did explain it to Paul but he feels more comfortable trying what he knows.

I can understand that trying something out for the first time on a customers stock where it may be a one shot deal is probably not something he wants to do.

His take is that he'd be properly up to his neck in the brown stuff if it went wrong for him!

The plan is:

a) try to conceal the sanding and filler with some light stain

b) if that doesn't work, then I've asked him to start over ona complete refinish. He says the stamps are struck deep and sharp enough that they'd need an angle grinder to remove them so wouldn't be affected by this!!

c) Worst case and if neither (a) nor (b) work as hoped...he reprofiles the heel of the pistol grip to below the chipped bit and blends it into underside of the butt. Pretty extreme and neither of us really wnat to go this route though.

Should have a better idea of where we stand by Sunday evening.....

 

[RMPSTRAT]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

No problem. Hey would you do me a favor and ask your 'smith what hole spacing he used for his blocks? It's been a while but if I remember right it's 7.25" C to C for .25" adjustments.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parga</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problem. Hey would you do me a favor and ask your 'smith what hole spacing he used for his blocks? It's been a while but if I remember right it's 7.25" C to C for .25" adjustments. </div></div>

Ray - the books we read say 7.2" centre to centre and that the rear mount should be butted up against the rear of the rear sight (although some period pics show some set back a little on the ring). Paul went up against the ramp.

The Steve Earle blocks are also within a couple of thou of the original dimensions shown in Brophy's book. I didn't find anyone else who would give the dimensions of their blocks.

We also found some data on the Unertl Yahoo group on spacings and their effect on the accuracy/calibration of the scope clicks. It has to be bang on or your click values will be out....

Editted 15.1.11

Found the data on the spacing of the blocks again..the info is said to have come direct from John Unertl

5.4" = 1/3" Per Click.
7.2" = 1/4" Per Click.
9.0" = 1/5" Per Click.
10.8" = 1/6" Per Click.
12.6" = 1/7" Per Click.
14.4" = 1/8" Per Click.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

After a few weeks of thinking we were wading through mud, we're finally back on the gas!!

Stock has been refinished - sanded, re-stained and then oiled again. The repair to the grip looks a lot better now:

Bolt has been electro-pencilled and now just needs to be re-blued:

Now just all needs to be put back together and any last minute details ironed out...such as bolt clearance on the scope etc.

Hoping next post will be the finished article.........

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

WE'RE DONE!!

Rifle is now all back together again...here's the preview pics received this afternoon!! Paul will be test firing and tweaking it tomorrow.

Can't wait to pick it up next weekend!!

More detailed pics will follow when I get the rifle....then on to the range report!!

 

[30cal_Fun]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

That is just gorgeous!
To me nothing beats the looks of oiled wood and blued steel.
I am looking forward to see the range results.
1903's are very hard to find over here, I envy you a lot.
Have fun and be proud of it.

 

[Joop]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

I would be pacing the floor until it was in my sweaty hands! That's gorgeous and it it shoots even half as good as it looks, you'll have an all around winner. Looking forward to a range report!

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

30calfun, Joop - thanks guys! It looks stunning!!

From the first pics, it seems Paul has done another great job.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would be pacing the floor until it was in my sweaty hands! That's gorgeous and it it shoots even half as good as it looks, you'll have an all around winner. Looking forward to a range report!
</div></div>

LOL!! Been like cat on hot tin since I got the pics of the stock repair and etched bolt!!! Could feel it coming closer!!

This week is going to <span style="font-size: 14pt">D---</span><span style="font-size: 17pt">R---</span><span style="font-size: 20pt">A----</span><span style="font-size: 23pt">G!!</span>

 

[Longbow_06]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Wow... Just, wow. Awesome build.

Thanks for shareing.


Lee

 

[trilogymac]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Excellent!
Can't wait for the range report!

Trilogymac

 

[Run N Gun]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Wow that looks like a lot of hard work has paid off.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: USMC M1903 A1 / 1941 Sniper Rifle Project begins

Thanks guys...appreciate your kind words!

But the credit is all down to Paul Green at TVG.

Just as an example of how good this guy is, I had an email from him after he'd sent the pics over in the afternoon.

He was worried as, once everything was re-assembled, he'd noticed late yesterday that there was a 3 to 4 degree cant on the reticle.

He was talking about getting the rifle on a bed down at the engineering shop today to find the problem. He was worried that he'd missed something during the build and we'd have to start again. OUCH!!

Luckily I could send him the Unertl manual I found online.

(I've started a new thread for anybody that wants/needs it: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3061428#Post3061428 )

It's a simple adjustment on a scope he is not familiar with.

He's a very relieved bloke this morning!!

I can't say enough in praise of Paul...he takes a real pride in his work and is not afraid to stand up and say he doesn't know about something or may have made a mistake, or even to disagree with something if he feels it is wrong.

That's why I enjoy working with him.

Many others might have not bothered to say anything or tried to hack/bodge a solution.