Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

#2
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

My 2 cents, i am using Varget (australian adi ar2208) in my .308, 42 grains for 2452 fps at sea level at 15 celcious, with a SD of 1
smile.gif


so for me i guess that works

For what is best i dont know, as i only have to one powder for the .308, the only real way as we know is to get a tub of both and try it out.
 
#3
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I dont think it really matters all that much, but I use Varget(AR2208) just like John because where we come from Reloader isnt as common as ADI powders. We still have RL17 but its not every day you see it.
 
#4
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I just completed ladder testing with the 208's over Varget.

I am in the process of getting my seating depth nailed down but getting unreal accuracy thus far with my loads jammed .01" in the lands.

Awaiting an order for some Alpha type II mags as my OAL won't fit in a standard AI mag. A lot of guys are running RL powder with good results. I erred on the side of caution & stuck with Varget as its a bit more temp stable.

Don't know what velocity I am getting as I am working on nailing the groups down vs speed. According to Shooter ballistic app, 2400fps will carry well past 1k supersonic. That suits me just fine for my needs.
 
#7
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

VV N550 works best with the heavies in the .308. My 210 gr Berger VLD load is 44.5 gr and gives me 2500 fps and great accuracy. I don't have any experience with 208s.
 
#8
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Da-Law-Dawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just completed ladder testing with the 208's over Varget.

I am in the process of getting my seating depth nailed down but getting unreal accuracy thus far with my loads jammed .01" in the lands.

Awaiting an order for some Alpha type II mags as my OAL won't fit in a standard AI mag. A lot of guys are running RL powder with good results. I erred on the side of caution & stuck with Varget as its a bit more temp stable.

Don't know what velocity I am getting as I am working on nailing the groups down vs speed. According to Shooter ballistic app, 2400fps will carry well past 1k supersonic. That suits me just fine for my needs. </div></div>

How many grains and how dense is the load? It seems like you have to jam just to leave yourself enough room in the case for powder, don't you?
 
#11
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RoosterShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm curious as to why you are limiting yourself to these two powders? Just curious. </div></div>

Its sometimes hard to get powder here in southern california. Varget and RL17 is easy to get.
 
#13
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Da-Law-Dawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just completed ladder testing with the 208's over Varget.

I am in the process of getting my seating depth nailed down but getting unreal accuracy thus far with my loads jammed .01" in the lands.

Awaiting an order for some Alpha type II mags as my OAL won't fit in a standard AI mag. A lot of guys are running RL powder with good results. I erred on the side of caution & stuck with Varget as its a bit more temp stable.

Don't know what velocity I am getting as I am working on nailing the groups down vs speed. According to Shooter ballistic app, 2400fps will carry well past 1k supersonic. That suits me just fine for my needs. </div></div>

How many grains and how dense is the load? It seems like you have to jam just to leave yourself enough room in the case for powder, don't you? </div></div>

Carter,

Off my last node, my best results were from 41.8-42.2gr of Varget in 1x fired R-P brass. In comparision, running 44.0gr with the 168 and 178 Amax's.

At 42.2gr, I am getting a tad of compression....but barely. As for room in the case, haven't had any issues yet nor have I seen anything to be wary of on pressures. At 42.0gr & 42.2gr, seeing a very light amount of flattening on the primers (Fed 210) but haven't had a sticky bolt yet.

Here's what I have nailed down seated .01" in the lands with 41.8gr. Three shots .499" CTC at 300 yards......

IMAG0108.jpg


I have some more rounds loaded in my upper node seated .01" off the lands for testing hear in the near future. We'll see how that goes on the next range trip.
 
#14
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joediesel81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,
I just wanted to know which powder works best with the 208gr amax in 308.thanks guys </div></div>

Right now, Reloder 17 is the favorite powder with the heavies out of a 308. The case really isn't built for 200+gr bullets and runs out of steam.

RL-17 is designed for a smoother, longer pressure curve and this is atypical for the standard powders when shooting that weight class.

Alliant has brought out some other powders and potentially Hornady/Hodgdon Superformance powders will come to market, so these might be a viable option.

Honestly, if you can't get those 208s/210s up over a certain velocity, there's not a lot of reason to shoot them in my mind vs. some of the other great bullets out there.

208s/210s are a good 33% heavier than the 155s and they're going to thump a lot more and be more costly in the end.

Chris
 
#15
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

Did some load testing with varget and RL-17.
Here are the results at 100 yards

savage 10BA
1:10

VARGET POWDER

208gr AMAX win brass win primers

41.5gr 42.0GR 42.5
AVG 2513 AVG 2511 AVG 2535
ES 24 ES 34 ES 24
SD 10 SD 14 SD 10
Group .756 Group .795 Group .553

RL-17 POWDER

208GR AMAX win brass win primers

46.0gr 46.5gr 47.0gr 47.5gr 48.0gr
AVG 2565 AVG 2577 AVG 2564 AVG 2597 AVG 2615
ES 44 ES 4 ES 15 ES 31 ES 30
SD 18 SD 2 SD 7 SD 13 SD 12
Group .810 Group .563 Group .576 Group .650 Group .702

With varget at 42 and 42.5 got ejector marks and at 42.5 a sticking bolt.All primers are flat.Varget seem hard on the brass.

With RL-17 all primers are flat and no sticking bolt. I could go up to 49gr but at 2615 at 48.0 kicks like a 300 win mag.Next time.

Your thoughts?

Just got some new win brass (never been fired)last week. re-size and checked. Its seem the primer pocket felt loose when installing the win primers. Shot 208gr amax and 41.5gr of varget,out of 50 loads tested. 3 primers pop out and 5 were leaking from the primer pocket. This the first time I seen this from a new bag of Winchester brass? Bad brass ? I'm sure it not over pressuring. Dont know,any info is great.

Joe
 
#16
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joediesel81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi,
I just wanted to know which powder works best with the 208gr amax in 308.thanks guys </div></div>

Right now, Reloder 17 is the favorite powder with the heavies out of a 308. The case really isn't built for 200+gr bullets and runs out of steam.

RL-17 is designed for a smoother, longer pressure curve and this is atypical for the standard powders when shooting that weight class.

Alliant has brought out some other powders and potentially Hornady/Hodgdon Superformance powders will come to market, so these might be a viable option.

Honestly, if you can't get those 208s/210s up over a certain velocity, there's not a lot of reason to shoot them in my mind vs. some of the other great bullets out there.

208s/210s are a good 33% heavier than the 155s and they're going to thump a lot more and be more costly in the end.

Chris </div></div>

With varget at 2475fps I get about 8-10 inch groups at 1,000 yards. I like because its consistently. Trying RL-17 this weekend at 1000 yards. thanks for comment.
 
#17
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

This happens to be something I'm trying to load for my Savage 10FP-SR.

I'm pretty new to reloading, and playing by the book. (In this case the Hornady manual.) For Varget, I'm seeing 40.0 gr max, giving 2300 fps. But the book shows highest velocity with Win 748. Does anyone have experience with that powder?
 
#18
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

books are legal safe, as always work up your loads from the book min and look for pressure, where some see pressure at 42.5 of varget with the 208's i did'nt see pressure all the way up to 44 grain, but stoped because it felt like i was launching arillery... each rifle to its own, just be safe.



joe, 46.5 or RL-17 @ 2577 with a SD of 2 and a group of .565, looks like a winner to me. i would not touch a thing and load away. maybe play with seating depth if you realy want too...
 
#20
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: john_1182</div><div class="ubbcode-body">books are legal safe, as always work up your loads from the book min and look for pressure, where some see pressure at 42.5 of varget with the 208's i did'nt see pressure all the way up to 44 grain, but stoped because it felt like i was launching arillery... each rifle to its own, just be safe.



joe, 46.5 or RL-17 @ 2577 with a SD of 2 and a group of .565, looks like a winner to me. i would not touch a thing and load away. maybe play with seating depth if you realy want too... </div></div>

Thanks, the depth is about .15 off the lands. Going out this weekend and verify my loads again.
 
#22
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I'm getting real nice speed out of the RL17, 2630fps with 48.3gr and no pressure signs at all. That said, its not as accurate, or consistent through the chronograph, as I would like it to be.

I may buy a pound of Varget and work that up and see what happens with accuracy. 2500fps is about the minimum I want these rounds going. You can get past 1000 with 2400 but I'd like to get into some ELR shooting without building a new gun and 2500-2600fps with a 208 Amax will get the round there.

Rich
 
#23
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joediesel81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i had blown primers with 42g varget behind the 208 </div></div>

What rifle are you running and brass? </div></div>

Lapua new brass in an AI to mag length...2.85
 
#24
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joediesel81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TJ.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i had blown primers with 42g varget behind the 208 </div></div>

What rifle are you running and brass? </div></div>

Lapua new brass in an AI to mag length...2.85 </div></div>

Lapua cases are less spacious than Winchester, loading them to mag length as well all adds up to pressure issues.

I'd be willing to bet loaded to 2.95 in Winchester brass you wouldn't blow the primers.

Rich
 
#25
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I am seeing ~2640 fps from 49 grains of RL17 in Winchester cases using the 210 grain Berget bullet, out of a 26" barrel Rem700, seated to 3.00" OAL.

Accuracy is .75moa, where the gun shoots .5 moa or better with 175 or 168 grain bullets (acceptable to me).

It's a fun and much more wind forgiving load than the 175, especially at 2640 fps.
 
#26
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I can't believe you can get almost 2650 from the 208!!! I could only get 2550 from the 180smk (varget). That RL17 seems like the perfect powder for this application. I recently bought 2lbs in anticipation for my 284 thats in the works. I may have to try the 208s with it.
 
#27
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I nailed down 42.0gr of Varget with the 208's. I am getting UNREAL accuracy with this combo. Best results were from 41.8-42.0gr and no pressure signs save a slight bit of primer flattening.

No idea on the speed as I haven't got to jam them thru a chronograph yet. Will be doing so in the very near future in preparation for the RCSC shoot in October. Hogdon is stating around 2440fps with a 200gr outta a 24" tube. I am running a Rock 1-10 twist 22" tube and getting faster velocities with it compared to my friend's 24" Tikka. Figuring right around 2400fps, will update after I clock my loads.
 
#28
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

I was getting around 2600 with RL17 and win brass loaded to mag length out of a 19" KMW riffle. 762Texan is getting high 2700's with a custom rem700 with 24" Krieger barrel, Win brass, RL17 loaded to fit a modified Aics mag.

The velocities are attainable and the wind holds mimic the 6.5 class of projectiles.
 
#29
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

Hi All

I am just curious about the 308 and 208/210's. I am building a new rifle for 'F-TR' shooting which will have a 29.5" barrel in 308 Win but throated way out specifically for the 210 Berger. I will be able to seat the bullets out to 3.050". It is a single shot BTW so I don't have to worry about a magazine. All the powder talk in the various bulletins on this subject revolve about Re15, Re17, and Varget. I use H4350 in my 300 SAUM with 210's to great effect in another rifle so I was wondering if this powder would also work in this application? Thanks for any info on the subject. Steve
 
#30
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteveB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use H4350 in my 300 SAUM with 210's to great effect in another rifle so I was wondering if this powder would also work in this application? Thanks for any info on the subject. Steve </div></div>

To my knowledge nobody has really tried it, or at least tried it and documented it here. I think its an intriguing idea. The burn rate chart puts them right next to each other so in theory it should work. However, the 'word' is that it burns slower. So much so that you really couldn't even get enough powder in the case to get the bullet up to speed.

That's why people are experimenting with RL17 and Varget. If you crave speed, RL17 is the way to go. Low pressure and crazy velocity. It is sensitive, very much in my opinion, to temperature change. To the point where you can develop a load with a single digit SD and with a bit of temperature change you are looking at SD's in the teens and twenties. It just doesn't hold the tuned accuracy the way some other powders do.

I'm going to start development on a load using Varget next week for exactly that reason. People are getting excellent accuracy out of it, albeit at lower muzzle velocity because they hit the pressure wall sooner with the faster burning powder.

Keep this in mind, the 208 is a high BC bullet, and it doesn't need to be rocketed out of the barrel like the 155's do to maintain accuracy and energy. A 208 will stay supersonic to 1200+ yards, at SEA LEVEL, if fired at a very modest 2400fps. Faster is good if you can get away with it, but its not necessary.

Speed demons will want the RL17, I think the accuracy freaks are going to settle on Varget or something similar.

Rich
 
#31
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

Thanks Rich

Since I am building the rifle now and will be throating the bullet way out I maybe able to get enough H4350 into the case to make it work. I have been using H4350 in my 223 shooting 90 VLD's to good effect and accuracy for the past several years. Depending on the lot of H4350 the accuracy ranges from just ok to wow. Velocity is ok but not fantastic. I have found H4350 to be very stable just like Varget in my 300 SAUM and the accuracy is spectacular with 210's. The other powder to try that we are using in the 223 is Big Game. It is another powder very similar to Re17 but doesn't seem to have the temperature issues like Re17 even though it is a ball powder. Meters fantastically!!!
All I am trying to get velocity wise is 2600 fps. If I can get this with great accuracy then it will slightly better the wind drift of the 6mmBR using 105 VLD's. This cartridge is the ruling cartridge in F-O shooting but I feel that the 210's are more stable in the winds so I am building a trial rifle to test my theorey.

Steve
 
#32
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SteveB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks Rich

Since I am building the rifle now and will be throating the bullet way out I maybe able to get enough H4350 into the case to make it work. I have been using H4350 in my 223 shooting 90 VLD's to good effect and accuracy for the past several years. Depending on the lot of H4350 the accuracy ranges from just ok to wow. Velocity is ok but not fantastic. I have found H4350 to be very stable just like Varget in my 300 SAUM and the accuracy is spectacular with 210's. The other powder to try that we are using in the 223 is Big Game. It is another powder very similar to Re17 but doesn't seem to have the temperature issues like Re17 even though it is a ball powder. Meters fantastically!!!
All I am trying to get velocity wise is 2600 fps. If I can get this with great accuracy then it will slightly better the wind drift of the 6mmBR using 105 VLD's. This cartridge is the ruling cartridge in F-O shooting but I feel that the 210's are more stable in the winds so I am building a trial rifle to test my theorey.

Steve </div></div>

Post your chrono results and seating depth if you do get it to work. I don't think its going to happen. I've seen the comment that even if the case was full of powder it burns too slowly to get a heavier bullet up to speed with the case capacity available in the .308 cartridge.

I've talked to a couple people about Varget and they are getting both SD/ES numbers in the single digits and velocities around 2500fps. That's pretty ideal for accuracy and more than enough velocity for this projectile. I'm going to give it a whirl early next week, probably on tuesday or wednesday to see if I can do the same.

Rich
 
#33
Re: Varget or RL-17? .308 208gr Amax

With my results, 2500fps with Varget and the 208's would be stretching it. I just got my loads chrono'd yesterday and they have done better than initially expected.

Specs are as follows:

Custom FN CRF action with a 22" Rock 1-10 twist, M24/40 contour.

Load,

R-P brass, FL sized w/shoulder bumped back .005"
208 Amax
Fed 210 standard LR primer (not match)
42.0gr Varget (Hogdon shows 42.0grC w/200gr pills)
<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">Book velocity of 2441fps out of a 24" tube</span></span>
Loaded round is 2.200" (.01" off the lands) @ the ogive with a Hornady comparator and a COAL of 2.95" +/-

Actually velocity from my rig over a ten shot spread was 2435fps.

I was hoping for 2400fps outta the 22" Rock, needless to say, I am very well pleased. ES & SD's were both single digits as stated above and obtaining well under 1/2 MOA. Had considered the RL17, but after my results, I'd be hard pressed to change anything with this load!
 
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